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Shame - does it hinder or help you lose or gain weight?
100df
Posts: 668 Member
in Debate Club
The fat acceptance thread meandered a little into shame. I would like a discussion devoted to it. Some posters say it's good for a fat person to feel ashamed of their weight because it causes them to do something about it. Some posters disagreed.
For me, shame is how I gained weight. I am ashamed of being overweight. I believe that shame contributes to me maintaining the high weight. Getting over the shame is helping me lose it.
What is your experience? Does shame help you lose weight?
Does someone who says something that causes you to feel shame help or hinder you?
For me, shame is how I gained weight. I am ashamed of being overweight. I believe that shame contributes to me maintaining the high weight. Getting over the shame is helping me lose it.
What is your experience? Does shame help you lose weight?
Does someone who says something that causes you to feel shame help or hinder you?
11
Replies
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It can help motivate a minority of people.
For the majority? Utterly useless and counter productive.23 -
There are a few people who find the constant internal pressure of hating themselves to be motivating -- but I've always wondered if those people are happy with their results, when they reach them. It seems like it would be a recipe for never being satisfied. There's always another reason not to love yourself, after all, when you've made your body acceptable. This isn't to think that I think shame-motivated people are unhappy. I just can't grok it, because for me, it's an unhealthy headspace.
It's pretty common knowledge that shame doesn't inspire weight loss, whether it's internal or external. And it's because people don't take care of things they don't value. In my experience, both my own and conversing with others who have lost a lot weight, the first step had to be choosing to be the first line of defense in kindness. Admire what your body is good at. Revel in the new things it can learn to do. Realize how far this body has taken you, and choose to treat it right in return.
The worst times of my weight loss where when I let negative self-talk come in, and I always ended up at the same place: "Well, this whole thing is just a dumpster fire of a body and nothing will fix it, so why try?"19 -
For me, I could not take the steps I needed to take and actually consistently stick to anything until I found a way to give up shame and guilt and accept my body for the way it is/was at the time. Acceptance has always done more for my weight and mental health than shame.20
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It can help motivate a minority of people.
For the majority? Utterly useless and counter productive.
I am definitely in the majority.
Shaming would never have been a motivating factor for me to lose.
I had to be ready and to do it for myself and shaming by anyone would have had a negative, not positive effect. Thankfully, my loved ones and friends have always accepted me as I am. I am grateful to them all for their acceptance.
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I started losing weight, for the first time, when I was super happy because I was totally in love with my boyfriend at that time. So, for me, feeling good about myself, and the world, helps me.12
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diannethegeek wrote: »For me, I could not take the steps I needed to take and actually consistently stick to anything until I found a way to give up shame and guilt and accept my body for the way it is/was at the time. Acceptance has always done more for my weight and mental health than shame.
This. Exactly this.4 -
Good question. I am not sure that shame has ever motivated me. More like shame and depression was a cycle that fed into each other. I was ashamed of my body, so I was depressed. And because I was depressed, I was ashamed. And so forth and so on.
In no way, shape or form has anyone insulting me ever motivated me. Ever. Except maybe to kick them out of my life forever. I am not motivated by humiliation. Drill sergeant tactics don't work for me. I think you have to be more of an authoritarian for that to work and that's not me.11 -
Shame makes me want to hide. Secrecy and a desire to hide one's shame leads to poor decisions/behaviors.
I would binge in private.
I've also been anorexic and that was fueled by a deep sense of self-hatred as well. (And episodes of binging and laxative purging and other negative behaviors). I know that is an extreme example.
Don't you take better care of things you love?7 -
What is your experience? Does shame help you lose weight?
Does someone who says something that causes you to feel shame help or hinder you?
My experience was that a positive attitude and liking myself no matter what size I was was much more motivating to get healthy than feeling shame. Negative comments from others did not help me to lose weight.
I lost weight more succesful when I wasn't emotional about it- just recognizing my problem, honest tracking and CICO.
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Being shamed only motivates me to hide in a private place and do self-harm. I've never gotten on with people who shamed/yelled/screamed at me to do something, usually accompanied by name-calling & other insults. It's something I will never understand - how people can be motivated positively by being insulted and treated like sh1t.14
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I wouldn't go anywhere after I put on weight, I felt immense shame. I then had a child and bought a house in the town I grew up in. it became debilitating to not go anywhere cause I didn't want anyone I knew or used to know to see that I got fat. but I realized I was hurting my son by not bringing him to fairs, egg hunts, Santa breakfast, etc. I also got laid off from a work at home job of 12yrs or so and have to now go on interviews and physically go to a job ...so shame did force me to make this life style change, but it was my own shame of hurting my son and having to go on interviews....I don't advocate for shaming others and no one shamed me, I just felt immense shame at the way I looked and that I was hurting my son from having a memorable childhood cause of my own issues....but, I am now down almost 35lbs and I look like a normal person now who's only about 20 lbs overweight and can now go to stores or out to eat or to the park without the fear of running into a high school friend or ex and having them point and laugh4
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I don't think shaming or passing judgement at anyone overweight will do any good. More often than not it will bring up issues that lead to more eating or cravings because it increases the thoughts you can't eat anything. Everyone overweight carries their own shame and disgust over it.
It did NOT work on me when I was a child/teen and merely "over weight" it just led to yo yos and feeling like I can't do it because it has to be what I'm eating. No shocker to find out I've been insulin resistant probably for a LONG time.5 -
The fat acceptance thread meandered a little into shame. I would like a discussion devoted to it. Some posters say it's good for a fat person to feel ashamed of their weight because it causes them to do something about it. Some posters disagreed.
For me, shame is how I gained weight. I am ashamed of being overweight. I believe that shame contributes to me maintaining the high weight. Getting over the shame is helping me lose it.
What is your experience? Does shame help you lose weight?
Does someone who says something that causes you to feel shame help or hinder you?
Great topic. No one ever said anything negative about my weight. But I remember seeing a really unflattering picture of myself and feeling embarrassed and that's when I really took control.
Today I'm much closer to goal weight but never feel totally comfortable in my skin. It drives me to keep at it, and also to wear clothes that I think are flattering and make me feel good. So then I feel good and not shamed. Lol. I don't know.4 -
I personaly think the complete and utter lack of shame in certain people is one of the major issues we have in contemporary Western society. It's not everyone but there is certainly a large swath of Western society who couldn't care less about other people, or what other people think of them. If you're (I'm using "you" in the royal sense here) one of them and slowing killing yourself by overeating, drinking too much, or abusing drugs, then stop whining like a child and do something about it. No one is responsible for you but you, and very few will ever give a damn about you. The rest of the world was not put on this Earth to support you, feel sorry for you, or listen to you. Learn to accept that and take responsibility for you. If you want friends and support then be a friend and provide support. If you do those things then life will get quite a bit easier.
Now, I will also back that up slightly, and say that if someone feels shame to such a degree that they have no self worth, are paralyzed by fear, or are clinically depressed, then that person needs to seek out professional help and deal with those feelings. While no one is responsible for "you" but you, it is okay to get help. A feeling of self worth is critical for self improvement because without it the effort wouldn't be worth it to you. I think the difference is the person in the first paragraph is a selfish and irresponsible and the person in the second paragraph may be depressed or have a history of abuse and/or neglect. This isn't a one size fits all world.11 -
diannethegeek wrote: »For me, I could not take the steps I needed to take and actually consistently stick to anything until I found a way to give up shame and guilt and accept my body for the way it is/was at the time. Acceptance has always done more for my weight and mental health than shame.
This is how it has been for me. Giving up the shame and guilt isn't simple. Easy for those emotions to sneak in.0 -
It hinders me. My mother was always pushing me to lose weight at a young age, even when I was healthy just because she didn't like the way I looked. Doctors told her I was fine, but she wanted me to be as stick thin as she was at my age. Tsk tsk.2
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Okay, so I've been reading all the above comments and I would like to add a more scientific point of view. ( I study physics and always loved science, so logical reasoning always works with me)
I have been struggling with weight myself almost since I began primary school. And I've been on this roller-coaster of losing weight forever. I lost weight, put it back on and so on. Of course before I was even aware of it, shame was a huge part of my mindset. That little voice saying "you'll never make it" "you are fat and lazy and ugly and that's what people see when they look at you". It was awful.
But in the past years while having my seasons of losing weight then gaining it back, I did some research and got myself nutritionally and psychologically educated.
It turns out that shame is actually perceived by the brain as an attack. When we feel threatened, our brains release a stress hormone called cortisol. Cortisol it is known to be close related to hindering weight loss.
So actually when you start from a mindset of shame, you are really sabotaging yourself on the long run and stay in the way of your body losing weight. What is more, self shaming makes you both the attacker and the attacked so you are even more stressed.
And this is just one of the many harms that come from shame. For more information on shame and shame resilience, check out the work of Brene Brown. She has a PhD in social work and has done studies on shame and vulnerability for the past 10 years. Here is one of her TED talks:
https://youtu.be/psN1DORYYV0
Also here is an article from Jillian Michaels's website on stress in relation to weight loss http://www.jillianmichaels.com/fit/lose-weight/belly-fat-and-cortisol-connection
For those of you who are not familiar with her work, she is a certified personal trainer, nutritional trainer and life coach and a TV personality in the US.
Another interesting talk I listened to just today on the topic is this one:
https://youtu.be/IvtZBUSplr4
In regard to some of you who argued that shame might move people off of their assess, I think that it actually might have been guilt, not shame, you were referring to. They look similar but are very important difference: shame says "I ate that, I am bad", whereas guilt says "I ate that, I did something bad". And in truth, yes, guilt has turned out to be helpful in self motivation and changing bad behavior.
To wrap it up, if you want to lose weight safely and surely, start with caring for yourself. It's the hardest thing one can do and it is a daily struggle, with good and bad days, but it is life changing. I started on this path for a few months now, baby steps: changing my habits one at a time, but more importantly changing my self talk. I started working out again and eating clean two months ago, and it's already showing. I only lost 2 kg (like 4 lbs) and have 10 kgs more to go, but I feel stronger and lighter and more self confident. And, yes, I allow myself one cheat meal every 2 or 3 weeks, but completely guilt free, and that keeps me sane and happy. The most wonderful thing is that this process propagates in ripples around you and you will see people changing for the better with you. I see it around me all the time now.
Sorry for the long post, I hope you find it useful. Stay strong and happy and remember, it is a lifelong process, and your health, mentally and physically, comes first.23 -
I think at best, shame can be short-term motivation but even then if it involves being unhappy and feeling ashamed of oneself, I think I'd rather just take the extra weight.
I do not think generally shame or embarrassment or substantial unhappiness leads to long-term positive results and generally not a happy way to live.4 -
...if shame worked, I'd be a underwear model.15
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It made me anorexic for 4 years. So technically yes it did aid my weight loss, realistically - it messed me up mentally so hard, I still struggle with self-esteem and have done since I was 13.5
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sunnybeaches105 wrote: »I personaly think the complete and utter lack of shame in certain people is one of the major issues we have in contemporary Western society. It's not everyone but there is certainly a large swath of Western society who couldn't care less about other people, or what other people think of them. If you're (I'm using "you" in the royal sense here) one of them and slowing killing yourself by overeating, drinking too much, or abusing drugs, then stop whining like a child and do something about it.
You are mixing two things. If someone is overweight and whining about it, sure, the response is "if it bothers you, do something about it." But no one said anything about whining -- you seem to have just assumed that. If someone is overweight and fine with it, it's none of my business. (If I'm the doctor or responsible for public policy, I should provide appropriate health information, of course.)6 -
Good question. I am not sure that shame has ever motivated me. More like shame and depression was a cycle that fed into each other.
Yes, this is how I am, and why I feel that "shame" tends to be a negative and unhelpful emotion.
I think some people use "shame" in a different way that I understand it, to mean "acknowledging that things should change" or some such, but I don't see that as what we are talking about.
I was partially kicked into gear to get in shape and lose the weight due to an embarrassing photo, but that wasn't "shame," that was wanting to look and feel better plus pride (thinking I could be better, irritation that I'd failed to live up to my own standards), vanity (nothing wrong with that in moderation, IMO), plus (again) embarrassment.2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »I personaly think the complete and utter lack of shame in certain people is one of the major issues we have in contemporary Western society. It's not everyone but there is certainly a large swath of Western society who couldn't care less about other people, or what other people think of them. If you're (I'm using "you" in the royal sense here) one of them and slowing killing yourself by overeating, drinking too much, or abusing drugs, then stop whining like a child and do something about it.
You are mixing two things. If someone is overweight and whining about it, sure, the response is "if it bothers you, do something about it." But no one said anything about whining -- you seem to have just assumed that. If someone is overweight and fine with it, it's none of my business. (If I'm the doctor or responsible for public policy, I should provide appropriate health information, of course.)
The fat acceptance movement belongs in paragraph 1 and they certainly are whining. The term shame is used in a variety of ways and that group, for the most part, is talking about being "shamed" not necessarily actually feeling "shame." They're celebrating poor choices. I see others in group 2 being drawn to the movement because they need help with their feelings but that's not the group I see advocating and being celebrated. If it was the movement would be focused on self improvement rather than whining about society.1 -
Not everyone who feels "unashamed" about being overweight is whining. In fact, I think people who accept themselves and don't feel shameful and powerless are far less likely to whine.
Personally, I never whined about my weight aloud, because I didn't want anyone to hear me admit I considered it a failure of mine. (Also, because my automatic response to whining, including that tendency in myself, is why don't you do something about it, if it bothers you.)6 -
I don't see the connection with whining.lemurcat12 wrote: »Not everyone who feels "unashamed" about being overweight is whining. In fact, I think people who accept themselves and don't feel shameful and powerless are far less likely to whine.
Personally, I never whined about my weight aloud, because I didn't want anyone to hear me admit I considered it a failure of mine. (Also, because my automatic response to whining, including that tendency in myself, is why don't you do something about it, if it bothers you.)
I may whine inside but there's no way I would whine about it out loud for the same reason.3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Not everyone who feels "unashamed" about being overweight is whining. In fact, I think people who accept themselves and don't feel shameful and powerless are far less likely to whine.
Personally, I never whined about my weight aloud, because I didn't want anyone to hear me admit I considered it a failure of mine. (Also, because my automatic response to whining, including that tendency in myself, is why don't you do something about it, if it bothers you.)
I didn't whine either. I agree that not everyone whines. Truly "accepting" oneself takes honestly. Once I was honest with myself I wanted change. Honesty is something else I see missing in FA.
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sunnybeaches105 wrote: »The fat acceptance movement belongs in paragraph 1 and they certainly are whining. The term shame is used in a variety of ways and that group, for the most part, is talking about being "shamed" not necessarily actually feeling "shame." They're celebrating poor choices. I see others in group 2 being drawn to the movement because they need help with their feelings but that's not the group I see advocating and being celebrated. If it was the movement would be focused on self improvement rather than whining about society.
I think there is probably a very small minority of people that are actually celebrating being overweight. I'm sure they exist, but I'm guessing this is a pretty small sliver of the population. I think others in the fat acceptance movement are more in favor of just not wanting to be shamed or forced into self-loathing just because of their weight.11 -
toostuborntoquit wrote: »Okay, so I've been reading all the above comments and I would like to add a more scientific point of view. ( I study physics and always loved science, so logical reasoning always works with me)..
This has got to be one of the best posts I've ever seen on MFP.
The difference between guilt and shame is something I'd never considered before, but so crucial. I felt shame for so long, leaving me feeling paralyzed. In fact, one episode in which my sister shamed me via email and copied the entire family came at a dreadful time - I was just ready to do something about losing the weight, but the shame and the feeling of being attacked and my own response to it, meant I did not feel confident enough to tackle my weight for another year.
Now, the guilt I felt that I was not being the role model I wanted to be for my 8 year-old daughter was motivating - I sat myself down, did my research, picked a time when work was quite, DH was away on a 3 week business trip, put together my plan and executed it in peace and with confidence... And the rest is history. 1/3rd body weight gone, size 16 petite to size 0/2 petite, muscles where I never knew I had them, I can RUN.14 -
I think people react differently to shame, but sometimes, people equate holding someone accountable to shaming. For instance, calling BS on someone that says "I only eat 1000 calories per day, but I still gain weight!" is not shaming them.5
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