Added sugar vs. natural sugars in daily total?
Replies
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ivanfawcettgibson wrote: »Someone said the body needs sugar, and stated it as a fact - that's wrong, and potentially dangerous.
What are the causes of obesity diseases? A high resistance to insulin. You continue to abuse sugar and you will succumb to diabetes and other metabolic issues. I have a mate, he's a relatively slim lad. At 22 he was diagnosed with diabetes. He was eating a 'healthy diet'.
I don't track sugar, but I don't eat much in the way of fruit and I definitely don't eat low fat products.
By the way, there are plenty of publications on sugar in the diet and what it does.
Have a search for Aseem Malhotra.
I said the body needs sugar and I am not wrong. The major cause of obesity is too many calories, wether they come from sugar (carbs), fat or protein. High resistance to insulin typically happens after one is overweight. You are ignoring the lifestyle and genetic factors and blaming it all on sugar? How ignorant are you? And why on earth would you suggest that I abuse sugar! What was your mates other factors for diabetes at 22? I highly doubt it was because of sugar. Please...0 -
Sugar is a health issue for everyone. It's just not well known.
Sugar from unrefined sources like fruit is processed very differently in real life than added sugar. That's because nobody eats 20 apples. But it's easy to eat the equivalent in baked goods or candy.
I seriously doubt that. 20 medium McIntosh apples have around 320 grams of sugar. I could eat an entire box of Twinkies and still only consume 160 grams of sugar. 10 packages of M&Ms has less sugar than the apples. It would actually be pretty difficult to match the apple example in terms of sugar.
Unless I ate 10 slices of Cheesecake Factory cheesecake, which matches the apples for grams of sugar. I really wouldn't consider that easy to do though
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One medium Apple has roughly 19 grams of sugar at a total of about 80 calories. One Twinkie has roughly 19 grams of sugar at a total of 145 calories. Tell me again how it's all about the sugar? This debate is non sensical...6
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One medium Apple has roughly 19 grams of sugar at a total of about 80 calories. One Twinkie has roughly 19 grams of sugar at a total of 145 calories. Tell me again how it's all about the sugar? This debate is non sensical...
Yup, it makes absolutely no sense to throw out extreme scenarios. I don't worry about my sugar intake, nor do I track it. I already have a system of checks and balances in place because I have calorie parameters that I stay within. In no scenario would I ever find myself eating the equivalent of sugar grams from the apple scenario, because I couldn't fit it into my calorie goals. For someone to claim that it's easy to eat that much sugar just because it's in baked goods or candy makes no sense, unless you're totally off the rails with your calorie intake. That just doesn't apply to most of us here.0 -
I don't worry about my sugar intake. Unless you have medical reason don't worry about it.
No offense, but this isn't very good advice. Most people consume way too much sugar. If the sugar comes from 10 chocolate bars or 20 apples it is still excessive. You may not have a medical reason to worry about it now but if you continue to eat it in excess you will develop one.
I'm guessing you can find many people who eat 10 chocolate bars or equivalent low nutrient foods a day. A bit harder to find someone eating 20 apples a.day4 -
Packerjohn wrote: »I don't worry about my sugar intake. Unless you have medical reason don't worry about it.
No offense, but this isn't very good advice. Most people consume way too much sugar. If the sugar comes from 10 chocolate bars or 20 apples it is still excessive. You may not have a medical reason to worry about it now but if you continue to eat it in excess you will develop one.
I'm guessing you can find many people who eat 10 chocolate bars or equivalent low nutrient foods a day. A bit harder to find someone eating 20 apples a.day
I'd really doubt that, unless you're dealing with people who are dealing with EDs.0 -
Outside of MFP, I think it is very reasonable that there are indeed plenty of people doing so. People who aren't health-conscious can have poor nutritional habits even without having an ED. And for some people who are larger and aren't totally sedentary, eating 320g of sugar can probably be done while easily eating plenty of other foods.2
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ivanfawcettgibson wrote: »Someone said the body needs sugar, and stated it as a fact - that's wrong, and potentially dangerous.
What are the causes of obesity diseases? A high resistance to insulin. You continue to abuse sugar and you will succumb to diabetes and other metabolic issues. I have a mate, he's a relatively slim lad. At 22 he was diagnosed with diabetes. He was eating a 'healthy diet'.
I don't track sugar, but I don't eat much in the way of fruit and I definitely don't eat low fat products.
By the way, there are plenty of publications on sugar in the diet and what it does.
Have a search for Aseem Malhotra.
I said the body needs sugar and I am not wrong. The major cause of obesity is too many calories, wether they come from sugar (carbs), fat or protein. High resistance to insulin typically happens after one is overweight. You are ignoring the lifestyle and genetic factors and blaming it all on sugar? How ignorant are you? And why on earth would you suggest that I abuse sugar! What was your mates other factors for diabetes at 22? I highly doubt it was because of sugar. Please...
In the first instance, you are. Your body does not need sugar. You can live quite happily without any carbs at all, or sugar. There was a guy, he weighed a tremendous amount, about 320lb. Under control he was starved for 13 months, given water and nothing else. He used his fat reserve to survive and lost about half his weight.
Fat will not make you fat, you have no way of storing it.
High resistance to insulin occurs when one systematically forces insulin to mop up the sugar in ones system. Carbs and sugar cause a larger insulin spike than protein and will lead to insulin resistance. A simple test is, skinny limbs and a spare tyre around the middle? Insulin resistant, but one might not be obese.
You don't have to be overweight to be diabetic or suffer with metabolic syndromes.
Sorry, change the 'you' to 'one' I wasn't trying to be personal.
Re my mate. All I know is he was a young man of 22, played football (soccer), drank beer, ate like a man of his age does, he started to feel a bit off and was later diagnosed with diabetes. He's not over weight and never has been.
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ivanfawcettgibson wrote: »ivanfawcettgibson wrote: »Someone said the body needs sugar, and stated it as a fact - that's wrong, and potentially dangerous.
What are the causes of obesity diseases? A high resistance to insulin. You continue to abuse sugar and you will succumb to diabetes and other metabolic issues. I have a mate, he's a relatively slim lad. At 22 he was diagnosed with diabetes. He was eating a 'healthy diet'.
I don't track sugar, but I don't eat much in the way of fruit and I definitely don't eat low fat products.
By the way, there are plenty of publications on sugar in the diet and what it does.
Have a search for Aseem Malhotra.
I said the body needs sugar and I am not wrong. The major cause of obesity is too many calories, wether they come from sugar (carbs), fat or protein. High resistance to insulin typically happens after one is overweight. You are ignoring the lifestyle and genetic factors and blaming it all on sugar? How ignorant are you? And why on earth would you suggest that I abuse sugar! What was your mates other factors for diabetes at 22? I highly doubt it was because of sugar. Please...
In the first instance, you are. Your body does not need sugar. You can live quite happily without any carbs at all, or sugar. There was a guy, he weighed a tremendous amount, about 320lb. Under control he was starved for 13 months, given water and nothing else. He used his fat reserve to survive and lost about half his weight.
Fat will not make you fat, you have no way of storing it.
High resistance to insulin occurs when one systematically forces insulin to mop up the sugar in ones system. Carbs and sugar cause a larger insulin spike than protein and will lead to insulin resistance. A simple test is, skinny limbs and a spare tyre around the middle? Insulin resistant, but one might not be obese.
You don't have to be overweight to be diabetic or suffer with metabolic syndromes.
Sorry, change the 'you' to 'one' I wasn't trying to be personal.
Re my mate. All I know is he was a young man of 22, played football (soccer), drank beer, ate like a man of his age does, he started to feel a bit off and was later diagnosed with diabetes. He's not over weight and never has been.
You really have no clue how the human body functions...5 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »Outside of MFP, I think it is very reasonable that there are indeed plenty of people doing so. People who aren't health-conscious can have poor nutritional habits even without having an ED. And for some people who are larger and aren't totally sedentary, eating 320g of sugar can probably be done while easily eating plenty of other foods.
You constantly refer to people outside of MFP. In those instances I would imagine there are other issues with food that require professional help. It's not the food, it's the manner in which it is eaten.
This idea that sugar is this demon food making us fat and killing us all regardless of context as to the nature of the overall lifestyle and diet is laughable...5 -
Seriously? Fat will not make you fat because you have no way of storing it? Seriously? End thread...5
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ReaderGirl3 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »I don't worry about my sugar intake. Unless you have medical reason don't worry about it.
No offense, but this isn't very good advice. Most people consume way too much sugar. If the sugar comes from 10 chocolate bars or 20 apples it is still excessive. You may not have a medical reason to worry about it now but if you continue to eat it in excess you will develop one.
I'm guessing you can find many people who eat 10 chocolate bars or equivalent low nutrient foods a day. A bit harder to find someone eating 20 apples a.day
I'd really doubt that, unless you're dealing with people who are dealing with EDs.
Some one earlier mentioned 10 chocolate bars vs 20 apples. Let's make it more realistic, 5 chocolate bars (around 200 calories a day, mainly processed sugar), 1,000 calories easily be a couple 20 oz Cokes, a candy bar, some ice cream and a piece of cake, brownie, etc. I don't think that is uncommon. Getting same calories from a food with natural sugars, like an apple would be about 10 apples for the 1000 calories. Don't think too many people eating 10 apples a day.
Sure calories matter, but the added sugar calories tend to be a greater source of overeating compared to foods like apples with naturally occurring sugars.0 -
Are the sugar totals based on added sugars and natural sugars like those in fruits etc., or just added sugars?
^The original post, in case anyone forgot.4 -
ivanfawcettgibson wrote: »ivanfawcettgibson wrote: »Someone said the body needs sugar, and stated it as a fact - that's wrong, and potentially dangerous.
What are the causes of obesity diseases? A high resistance to insulin. You continue to abuse sugar and you will succumb to diabetes and other metabolic issues. I have a mate, he's a relatively slim lad. At 22 he was diagnosed with diabetes. He was eating a 'healthy diet'.
I don't track sugar, but I don't eat much in the way of fruit and I definitely don't eat low fat products.
By the way, there are plenty of publications on sugar in the diet and what it does.
Have a search for Aseem Malhotra.
I said the body needs sugar and I am not wrong. The major cause of obesity is too many calories, wether they come from sugar (carbs), fat or protein. High resistance to insulin typically happens after one is overweight. You are ignoring the lifestyle and genetic factors and blaming it all on sugar? How ignorant are you? And why on earth would you suggest that I abuse sugar! What was your mates other factors for diabetes at 22? I highly doubt it was because of sugar. Please...
In the first instance, you are. Your body does not need sugar. You can live quite happily without any carbs at all, or sugar. There was a guy, he weighed a tremendous amount, about 320lb. Under control he was starved for 13 months, given water and nothing else. He used his fat reserve to survive and lost about half his weight.
Fat will not make you fat, you have no way of storing it.
High resistance to insulin occurs when one systematically forces insulin to mop up the sugar in ones system. Carbs and sugar cause a larger insulin spike than protein and will lead to insulin resistance. A simple test is, skinny limbs and a spare tyre around the middle? Insulin resistant, but one might not be obese.
You don't have to be overweight to be diabetic or suffer with metabolic syndromes.
Sorry, change the 'you' to 'one' I wasn't trying to be personal.
Re my mate. All I know is he was a young man of 22, played football (soccer), drank beer, ate like a man of his age does, he started to feel a bit off and was later diagnosed with diabetes. He's not over weight and never has been.
That isnt how things work. Diabetes is not caused by sugar or carbs. The major causes for diabetes is inactivity, obesity and genetics.
Fat can make you can. In fact its quite easy to get fat on fat when you eat too many calories. Over feeding studies have confirmed this. In fact de nova lipogenesis would suggest that carbs are more difficult to store.
There is no minimum level of sugar that is required or at least a minimum but that body does need glucose. Carbs are the quickest source and your brain is the biggest use of it. Habing said that, carbs and sugars can make ones body run more optimal during exercise. Even many keto based athletes will use dextrose to get energy.
Also, there are many hormones/enzymes that can make you fat. Insulin, acylation stimulating protein (asp) and glucose-dependent insulinotrophic peptide (GIP) are all involved in storing fat. Where a person eats carbs, the body will break them down into glucose. As yhis happens the body releases insulin to regulate blood sugars. At this time your body will enter lipogenesis and store nutrients (it does this by suppressing hormone sensitive lipase which is the fat burning hormone). Once blood sugars are regulated insulin will decrease and your body will enter lipolysis again.
When fat is consumed ASP is released. When it does that, ASP suppresses HSL which again prevents fat loss. When both carbs and fat are consumed, GIP does the same thing.
In short, it doesnt matter when you eat, the body will store fat.
The fact is, it doesnt matter for the OP. They have no reason to worry about sugar and since they are on MFP, they are more than likely aiming to get better foods and will minimize low nutrient foods.
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ForecasterJason wrote: »Outside of MFP, I think it is very reasonable that there are indeed plenty of people doing so. People who aren't health-conscious can have poor nutritional habits even without having an ED. And for some people who are larger and aren't totally sedentary, eating 320g of sugar can probably be done while easily eating plenty of other foods.
Outside of MFP, people are loads of carbs, fat and protein. Calories are very high and activity is very low. I got fat on fatty foods. Burgers, cheesesteaks, wings and much more.0 -
While I agree that a lot of people eating too much sugar most likely have other issues with their diet as well, to say that they need professional help seems like a stretch to me. IMO, those people just need to be educated on how to eat better.ForecasterJason wrote: »Outside of MFP, I think it is very reasonable that there are indeed plenty of people doing so. People who aren't health-conscious can have poor nutritional habits even without having an ED. And for some people who are larger and aren't totally sedentary, eating 320g of sugar can probably be done while easily eating plenty of other foods.
You constantly refer to people outside of MFP. In those instances I would imagine there are other issues with food that require professional help. It's not the food, it's the manner in which it is eaten.
This idea that sugar is this demon food making us fat and killing us all regardless of context as to the nature of the overall lifestyle and diet is laughable...
Also, I think the original post counteracting advice given has been taken out of context. The original post that was questioned, "I don't worry about my sugar intake. Unless you have medical reason don't worry about it."
I think most of us who counteracted that agree that it's not necessary for people to go to the other extreme and try to keep sugar to a ridiculously low amount. Instead, I think the message is more like it, "Keep an eye on sugar intake to keep it within reasonable amounts".
As I and others have mentioned, it doesn't take an ED, an unrealistic diet, or a diet that results in a calorie surplus for sugar to make up too much of one's diet.
ETA: Regarding the post I quoted, what she clarified later basically supported what the rest of us are saying - have an idea of how much you're eating.
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
While I agree that a lot of people eating too much sugar most likely have other issues with their diet as well, to say that they need professional help seems like a stretch to me. IMO, those people just need to be educated on how to eat better.ForecasterJason wrote: »Outside of MFP, I think it is very reasonable that there are indeed plenty of people doing so. People who aren't health-conscious can have poor nutritional habits even without having an ED. And for some people who are larger and aren't totally sedentary, eating 320g of sugar can probably be done while easily eating plenty of other foods.
You constantly refer to people outside of MFP. In those instances I would imagine there are other issues with food that require professional help. It's not the food, it's the manner in which it is eaten.
This idea that sugar is this demon food making us fat and killing us all regardless of context as to the nature of the overall lifestyle and diet is laughable...
Also, I think the original post counteracting advice given has been taken out of context. The original post that was questioned, "I don't worry about my sugar intake. Unless you have medical reason don't worry about it."
I think most of us who counteracted that agree that it's not necessary for people to go to the other extreme and try to keep sugar to a ridiculously low amount. Instead, I think the message is more like it, "Keep an eye on sugar intake to keep it within reasonable amounts".
As I and others have mentioned, it doesn't take an ED, an unrealistic diet, or a diet that results in a calorie surplus for sugar to make up too much of one's diet.
ETA: Regarding the post I quoted, what she clarified later basically supported what the rest of us are saying - have an idea of how much you're eating.
I think everyone agrees that it is important to keep an eye on how much you are eating. It's the singling out of sugar as some special diabolical chemical agent of sickness and obesity that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever...2 -
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Packerjohn wrote: »ReaderGirl3 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »I don't worry about my sugar intake. Unless you have medical reason don't worry about it.
No offense, but this isn't very good advice. Most people consume way too much sugar. If the sugar comes from 10 chocolate bars or 20 apples it is still excessive. You may not have a medical reason to worry about it now but if you continue to eat it in excess you will develop one.
I'm guessing you can find many people who eat 10 chocolate bars or equivalent low nutrient foods a day. A bit harder to find someone eating 20 apples a.day
I'd really doubt that, unless you're dealing with people who are dealing with EDs.
Some one earlier mentioned 10 chocolate bars vs 20 apples. Let's make it more realistic, 5 chocolate bars (around 200 calories a day, mainly processed sugar), 1,000 calories easily be a couple 20 oz Cokes, a candy bar, some ice cream and a piece of cake, brownie, etc. I don't think that is uncommon. Getting same calories from a food with natural sugars, like an apple would be about 10 apples for the 1000 calories. Don't think too many people eating 10 apples a day.
Sure calories matter, but the added sugar calories tend to be a greater source of overeating compared to foods like apples with naturally occurring sugars.
I agree with what I think your broader point is (don't worry about sugar from fruit, the reputable limits on added sugar, like from the WHO, are about added sugar), but what you are ignoring is that the high added sugar foods for the most parts (some exceptions, like soda) are higher cal than the fruit because they also contain lots of other ingredients, like fat. They are typically about half fat, half carbs, and not all the carbs are sugar. I have an example from my recipe box of a chocolate chip cookie, about 200 calories, 14 g sugar (I didn't check but it was less than the apple -- the largest contributor of calories was butter and flour also contributed plenty) vs. an apple, 16 g of sugar, 80 calories (again, working from memory).
I could also eat more of the cookies than the apple, when it comes to calories, sure -- I rarely want more than one apple, and I could eat 3 cookies, no problem, if not watching what I eat (although I also can limit it to one, no problem).
But as you can see, the difference has nothing to do with sugar -- the apple has more. It's that combination of other ingredients along with the sugar in the cookie (and again, the cookie is roughly half fat, which is why I find it more tempting, that combination). This is why people say that focusing just on the sugar instead of the food items and overall diet (i.e., including some excessive amount of cookies in one's overall diet) is the wrong focus.0 -
I don't worry about my sugar intake. Unless you have medical reason don't worry about it.
No offense, but this isn't very good advice. Most people consume way too much sugar. If the sugar comes from 10 chocolate bars or 20 apples it is still excessive. You may not have a medical reason to worry about it now but if you continue to eat it in excess you will develop one.
It doesn't appear that she is advocating eating 10 bars of chocolate or 20 apples, her point is valid as long as you are aware your recommended intake. If you're eating at your recommended levels of calories and macros, you really don't have to concern with tracking sugars.
I agree with you to a degree, if you are not monitoring calories (in surplus) daily it can be very dangerous consuming to much sugar for multiple reason and like you say could lead to you developing some form of medical condition.
edit: a little slow to the party, it seems the thread has escalated without me knowing..0 -
ivanfawcettgibson wrote: »ivanfawcettgibson wrote: »Someone said the body needs sugar, and stated it as a fact - that's wrong, and potentially dangerous.
What are the causes of obesity diseases? A high resistance to insulin. You continue to abuse sugar and you will succumb to diabetes and other metabolic issues. I have a mate, he's a relatively slim lad. At 22 he was diagnosed with diabetes. He was eating a 'healthy diet'.
I don't track sugar, but I don't eat much in the way of fruit and I definitely don't eat low fat products.
By the way, there are plenty of publications on sugar in the diet and what it does.
Have a search for Aseem Malhotra.
I said the body needs sugar and I am not wrong. The major cause of obesity is too many calories, wether they come from sugar (carbs), fat or protein. High resistance to insulin typically happens after one is overweight. You are ignoring the lifestyle and genetic factors and blaming it all on sugar? How ignorant are you? And why on earth would you suggest that I abuse sugar! What was your mates other factors for diabetes at 22? I highly doubt it was because of sugar. Please...
In the first instance, you are. Your body does not need sugar. You can live quite happily without any carbs at all, or sugar. There was a guy, he weighed a tremendous amount, about 320lb. Under control he was starved for 13 months, given water and nothing else. He used his fat reserve to survive and lost about half his weight.
Fat will not make you fat, you have no way of storing it.
High resistance to insulin occurs when one systematically forces insulin to mop up the sugar in ones system. Carbs and sugar cause a larger insulin spike than protein and will lead to insulin resistance. A simple test is, skinny limbs and a spare tyre around the middle? Insulin resistant, but one might not be obese.
You don't have to be overweight to be diabetic or suffer with metabolic syndromes.
Sorry, change the 'you' to 'one' I wasn't trying to be personal.
Re my mate. All I know is he was a young man of 22, played football (soccer), drank beer, ate like a man of his age does, he started to feel a bit off and was later diagnosed with diabetes. He's not over weight and never has been.
The body does need sugar. So much so that your liver will basically drop everything else to create glucose if you're not eating enough carbs.
I... I just can't even.Fat will not make you fat, you have no way of storing it.
Let's get to the next point.
The part about insulin resistance is wrong.
And your mate is the perfect example for why. He got diabetes even though he didn't "force insulin to mop up the sugar in ones system".1 -
The one thing missing here is the relationship between sugar and fibre. In a whole fruit, like an apple, the fibre in the fruit slows the absorption of the sugar. This slower release of sugar into the blood stream means that you don't see the same sugar spike that you would from consuming a chocolate chip cookie (which is highly processed with added sugar and less fibre). You want soluble fibre with natural sugar.
Sugars are not all equal. The delivery system matters.
Both the AHA and WHO have warned against eating too much added sugar, linking it to obesity and tooth decay. If you're not diabetic or pre-diabetic, you should be fine with consuming reasonable amounts of natural sugar, but yes, you should take care with added sugars. The AHA recommends no more than 6 tsp for women and 9 tsp for men of added sugars per day. However, the average American consumes 22 tsp of added sugar PER DAY. That amounts to 75 lbs per year, which is crazy.
Does this mean I will never have a cookie again? No, of course not. I use MyFitnessPal specifically because it doesn't demonize the foods I eat. It just means that I will try to consume mostly whole foods and to pay attention to the sugar in the processed foods that I choose to consume. Does this mean that sugar is the only culprit when it comes to obesity and poor health? Of course not. But we should care about the quantity, as well as the QUALITY of the calories we consume (making sure we hit our macros AND micros).
More information:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/HealthyLiving/HealthyEating/Nutrition/Added-Sugars_UCM_305858_Article.jsp#.Vy8lKGOUuRs1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »ReaderGirl3 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »I don't worry about my sugar intake. Unless you have medical reason don't worry about it.
No offense, but this isn't very good advice. Most people consume way too much sugar. If the sugar comes from 10 chocolate bars or 20 apples it is still excessive. You may not have a medical reason to worry about it now but if you continue to eat it in excess you will develop one.
I'm guessing you can find many people who eat 10 chocolate bars or equivalent low nutrient foods a day. A bit harder to find someone eating 20 apples a.day
I'd really doubt that, unless you're dealing with people who are dealing with EDs.
Some one earlier mentioned 10 chocolate bars vs 20 apples. Let's make it more realistic, 5 chocolate bars (around 200 calories a day, mainly processed sugar), 1,000 calories easily be a couple 20 oz Cokes, a candy bar, some ice cream and a piece of cake, brownie, etc. I don't think that is uncommon. Getting same calories from a food with natural sugars, like an apple would be about 10 apples for the 1000 calories. Don't think too many people eating 10 apples a day.
Sure calories matter, but the added sugar calories tend to be a greater source of overeating compared to foods like apples with naturally occurring sugars.
I agree with what I think your broader point is (don't worry about sugar from fruit, the reputable limits on added sugar, like from the WHO, are about added sugar), but what you are ignoring is that the high added sugar foods for the most parts (some exceptions, like soda) are higher cal than the fruit because they also contain lots of other ingredients, like fat. They are typically about half fat, half carbs, and not all the carbs are sugar. I have an example from my recipe box of a chocolate chip cookie, about 200 calories, 14 g sugar (I didn't check but it was less than the apple -- the largest contributor of calories was butter and flour also contributed plenty) vs. an apple, 16 g of sugar, 80 calories (again, working from memory).
I could also eat more of the cookies than the apple, when it comes to calories, sure -- I rarely want more than one apple, and I could eat 3 cookies, no problem, if not watching what I eat (although I also can limit it to one, no problem).
But as you can see, the difference has nothing to do with sugar -- the apple has more. It's that combination of other ingredients along with the sugar in the cookie (and again, the cookie is roughly half fat, which is why I find it more tempting, that combination). This is why people say that focusing just on the sugar instead of the food items and overall diet (i.e., including some excessive amount of cookies in one's overall diet) is the wrong focus.
You are correct there are other ingredients in cookies, etc, I'm sure you also realize nutritionally less dense foods almost always have added sugar as an ingredient. Focusing on reducing nutritionally less dense foods in general is key to weight loss/maintenance0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »ReaderGirl3 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »I don't worry about my sugar intake. Unless you have medical reason don't worry about it.
No offense, but this isn't very good advice. Most people consume way too much sugar. If the sugar comes from 10 chocolate bars or 20 apples it is still excessive. You may not have a medical reason to worry about it now but if you continue to eat it in excess you will develop one.
I'm guessing you can find many people who eat 10 chocolate bars or equivalent low nutrient foods a day. A bit harder to find someone eating 20 apples a.day
I'd really doubt that, unless you're dealing with people who are dealing with EDs.
Some one earlier mentioned 10 chocolate bars vs 20 apples. Let's make it more realistic, 5 chocolate bars (around 200 calories a day, mainly processed sugar), 1,000 calories easily be a couple 20 oz Cokes, a candy bar, some ice cream and a piece of cake, brownie, etc. I don't think that is uncommon. Getting same calories from a food with natural sugars, like an apple would be about 10 apples for the 1000 calories. Don't think too many people eating 10 apples a day.
Sure calories matter, but the added sugar calories tend to be a greater source of overeating compared to foods like apples with naturally occurring sugars.
I agree with what I think your broader point is (don't worry about sugar from fruit, the reputable limits on added sugar, like from the WHO, are about added sugar), but what you are ignoring is that the high added sugar foods for the most parts (some exceptions, like soda) are higher cal than the fruit because they also contain lots of other ingredients, like fat. They are typically about half fat, half carbs, and not all the carbs are sugar. I have an example from my recipe box of a chocolate chip cookie, about 200 calories, 14 g sugar (I didn't check but it was less than the apple -- the largest contributor of calories was butter and flour also contributed plenty) vs. an apple, 16 g of sugar, 80 calories (again, working from memory).
I could also eat more of the cookies than the apple, when it comes to calories, sure -- I rarely want more than one apple, and I could eat 3 cookies, no problem, if not watching what I eat (although I also can limit it to one, no problem).
But as you can see, the difference has nothing to do with sugar -- the apple has more. It's that combination of other ingredients along with the sugar in the cookie (and again, the cookie is roughly half fat, which is why I find it more tempting, that combination). This is why people say that focusing just on the sugar instead of the food items and overall diet (i.e., including some excessive amount of cookies in one's overall diet) is the wrong focus.
You are correct there are other ingredients in cookies, etc, I'm sure you also realize nutritionally less dense foods almost always have added sugar as an ingredient.
Lots of "junk" food is fat and carbs without sugar (usually with fat). Chips, fries, that sort of thing. Any fried food (could be more protein and fat, less carbs, no sugar). Cheese isn't really nutrient dense (yes, some calcium and protein, but not all that much if you compare to the calories -- apple pie has apples, similarly). Yet, no sugar. Same with naan (white flour, fat). My main high cal weaknesses aren't sugary at all.
And added sugar doesn't mean a food is not nutrient dense or has no fiber. I might add a bit to a rhubarb dish and yet the resulting food with still have as much fiber and less sugar than the apple (compare a rhubarb sauce to an apple sauce, both homemade). I don't like adding sugar to oatmeal, but some enjoy it more that way. A bit of sugar in some steel cut oats, maybe with fruit too, doesn't remove the fiber or make it less nutritious.
Smoked salmon often uses a bit of sugar in the processing. Still nutrient dense.
Food items should be looked at as a whole, as should diets.2 -
I prefer an inclusive approach to an exclusive approach to my diet. What can I include to make my diet balanced and healthy. There just isn't much room available for "excess sugar" when one focuses on getting adequate protein, fat and fiber...2
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I prefer an inclusive approach to an exclusive approach to my diet. What can I include to make my diet balanced and healthy. There just isn't much room available for "excess sugar" when one focuses on getting adequate protein, fat and fiber...
Yes, I agree. This can't be said too often.
For example, the 800+ calorie cake mentioned above with 70 g of sugar (I figured out what the calorie count would likely be). If someone on a 1500 cal diet is getting in what they need, they aren't going to be spending 800 calories on a piece of cake other than on a rare occasion. It just isn't going to be an issue, as they won't have 800 discretionary calories. If they are doing that, there are other issues with the diet well beyond sugar total.
(And yes, I consider eating over half one's diet on cake extreme, if it's a regular thing.)1 -
Exactly!lemurcat12 wrote: »I prefer an inclusive approach to an exclusive approach to my diet. What can I include to make my diet balanced and healthy. There just isn't much room available for "excess sugar" when one focuses on getting adequate protein, fat and fiber...
Yes, I agree. This can't be said too often.
For example, the 800+ calorie cake mentioned above with 70 g of sugar (I figured out what the calorie count would likely be). If someone on a 1500 cal diet is getting in what they need, they aren't going to be spending 800 calories on a piece of cake other than on a rare occasion. It just isn't going to be an issue, as they won't have 800 discretionary calories. If they are doing that, there are other issues with the diet well beyond sugar total.
(And yes, I consider eating over half one's diet on cake extreme, if it's a regular thing.)
0 -
stevencloser wrote: »ivanfawcettgibson wrote: »ivanfawcettgibson wrote: »Someone said the body needs sugar, and stated it as a fact - that's wrong, and potentially dangerous.
What are the causes of obesity diseases? A high resistance to insulin. You continue to abuse sugar and you will succumb to diabetes and other metabolic issues. I have a mate, he's a relatively slim lad. At 22 he was diagnosed with diabetes. He was eating a 'healthy diet'.
I don't track sugar, but I don't eat much in the way of fruit and I definitely don't eat low fat products.
By the way, there are plenty of publications on sugar in the diet and what it does.
Have a search for Aseem Malhotra.
I said the body needs sugar and I am not wrong. The major cause of obesity is too many calories, wether they come from sugar (carbs), fat or protein. High resistance to insulin typically happens after one is overweight. You are ignoring the lifestyle and genetic factors and blaming it all on sugar? How ignorant are you? And why on earth would you suggest that I abuse sugar! What was your mates other factors for diabetes at 22? I highly doubt it was because of sugar. Please...
In the first instance, you are. Your body does not need sugar. You can live quite happily without any carbs at all, or sugar. There was a guy, he weighed a tremendous amount, about 320lb. Under control he was starved for 13 months, given water and nothing else. He used his fat reserve to survive and lost about half his weight.
Fat will not make you fat, you have no way of storing it.
High resistance to insulin occurs when one systematically forces insulin to mop up the sugar in ones system. Carbs and sugar cause a larger insulin spike than protein and will lead to insulin resistance. A simple test is, skinny limbs and a spare tyre around the middle? Insulin resistant, but one might not be obese.
You don't have to be overweight to be diabetic or suffer with metabolic syndromes.
Sorry, change the 'you' to 'one' I wasn't trying to be personal.
Re my mate. All I know is he was a young man of 22, played football (soccer), drank beer, ate like a man of his age does, he started to feel a bit off and was later diagnosed with diabetes. He's not over weight and never has been.
The body does need sugar. So much so that your liver will basically drop everything else to create glucose if you're not eating enough carbs.
I... I just can't even.Fat will not make you fat, you have no way of storing it.
Let's get to the next point.
The part about insulin resistance is wrong.
And your mate is the perfect example for why. He got diabetes even though he didn't "force insulin to mop up the sugar in ones system".
Essentially you're agreeing with what I said. You don't need sugar, your liver will make up the short fall. So nobody needs to eat sugar, or carbs. They are not an essential macro.
I suggest you google Prof Tim Noakes.
As for the fat - "it does not trigger the hormonal dance that creates fat storage the way that sugar and other starchy carbohydrates do."
Is what I meant. I was being lazy.
It's a far better fuel, cleaner and more efficient.
As for my pal, well he did, didn't he? For some reason his body overly produced insulin to deal with the sugar he was eating. He became insulin resistant before he became diabetic. Carried on as the rest of us and became diabetic.
I stopped eating carbs and sugar 8 weeks ago, I've dropped the weight from my stomach. I've added weight to my thighs and arms. I'm starting to see my abs again. I used to be a guy of 5'10", 186 lb with skinny legs and arms. Now I'm 5'10" and 171 recovering from knee surgery.
I sleep better, think better, run better, cycle better and crap better. I blame sugar and refined carbs for my lethargic past. It works for me, it's not for everyone.1 -
ivanfawcettgibson wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »ivanfawcettgibson wrote: »ivanfawcettgibson wrote: »Someone said the body needs sugar, and stated it as a fact - that's wrong, and potentially dangerous.
What are the causes of obesity diseases? A high resistance to insulin. You continue to abuse sugar and you will succumb to diabetes and other metabolic issues. I have a mate, he's a relatively slim lad. At 22 he was diagnosed with diabetes. He was eating a 'healthy diet'.
I don't track sugar, but I don't eat much in the way of fruit and I definitely don't eat low fat products.
By the way, there are plenty of publications on sugar in the diet and what it does.
Have a search for Aseem Malhotra.
I said the body needs sugar and I am not wrong. The major cause of obesity is too many calories, wether they come from sugar (carbs), fat or protein. High resistance to insulin typically happens after one is overweight. You are ignoring the lifestyle and genetic factors and blaming it all on sugar? How ignorant are you? And why on earth would you suggest that I abuse sugar! What was your mates other factors for diabetes at 22? I highly doubt it was because of sugar. Please...
In the first instance, you are. Your body does not need sugar. You can live quite happily without any carbs at all, or sugar. There was a guy, he weighed a tremendous amount, about 320lb. Under control he was starved for 13 months, given water and nothing else. He used his fat reserve to survive and lost about half his weight.
Fat will not make you fat, you have no way of storing it.
High resistance to insulin occurs when one systematically forces insulin to mop up the sugar in ones system. Carbs and sugar cause a larger insulin spike than protein and will lead to insulin resistance. A simple test is, skinny limbs and a spare tyre around the middle? Insulin resistant, but one might not be obese.
You don't have to be overweight to be diabetic or suffer with metabolic syndromes.
Sorry, change the 'you' to 'one' I wasn't trying to be personal.
Re my mate. All I know is he was a young man of 22, played football (soccer), drank beer, ate like a man of his age does, he started to feel a bit off and was later diagnosed with diabetes. He's not over weight and never has been.
The body does need sugar. So much so that your liver will basically drop everything else to create glucose if you're not eating enough carbs.
I... I just can't even.Fat will not make you fat, you have no way of storing it.
Let's get to the next point.
The part about insulin resistance is wrong.
And your mate is the perfect example for why. He got diabetes even though he didn't "force insulin to mop up the sugar in ones system".
Essentially you're agreeing with what I said. You don't need sugar, your liver will make up the short fall. So nobody needs to eat sugar, or carbs. They are not an essential macro.
I suggest you google Prof Tim Noakes.
As for the fat - "it does not trigger the hormonal dance that creates fat storage the way that sugar and other starchy carbohydrates do."
Is what I meant. I was being lazy.
It's a far better fuel, cleaner and more efficient.
As for my pal, well he did, didn't he? For some reason his body overly produced insulin to deal with the sugar he was eating. He became insulin resistant before he became diabetic. Carried on as the rest of us and became diabetic.
I stopped eating carbs and sugar 8 weeks ago, I've dropped the weight from my stomach. I've added weight to my thighs and arms. I'm starting to see my abs again. I used to be a guy of 5'10", 186 lb with skinny legs and arms. Now I'm 5'10" and 171 recovering from knee surgery.
I sleep better, think better, run better, cycle better and crap better. I blame sugar and refined carbs for my lethargic past. It works for me, it's not for everyone.
Congrats on your great results. That said, none of it had anything to do with sugar...3 -
Ok.0
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