Back to vegan, but scared
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TheCrawlingChaos wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TheCrawlingChaos wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TheCrawlingChaos wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »i am 100% here to support you! I am (mostly... lol) on a vegan diet.. and ONLY for health reasons... literally.. go a week without dairy and see how you feel haha... but not only am i vegan.. (or vegetarian? not sure..) i still eat eggs and occasionally i eat fish.. i dont eat any dairy and the only grain i eat is quinoa and the occasional rice noodle recipe.
as for the previous post ^^^ you DONT need "animal one in proper proportions"... there are soo many things out there you could be eating than gross processed meat.. you can get get it from tofu, soft tofu you can put in sauces and shakes/smoothies, firm tofu you can cook just like any animal meat.. you can also get protein from beans (white beans, black beans are the best), peas, spinach, Brussels sprouts, broccoli, etc. .. so many choices.
you are free to view my diary any time you want.. again.. nobodys perfect so some days i miss, some days i cheat horribly haha but for the most of my days i'm eating vegetarian/vegan.
feel free to add me for support!
I think we can safely mark that open item as closed now.
You are not vegan. Or even vegetarian.
If she self-identifies as vegan why are you so hegemonic with your definitions?
I'm not sure that makes sense. It doesn't matter what you identify as, that doesnt change the factual reality. I can identify as an astronaut/ninja/trillionaire movie star but that doesn't mean I am any of those things in reality.
If the agreed upon definition of vegan is one who abstains from the use of animal products, then i don't think you can use animal products and say you're still a vegan. That is not what the word means.
If you identified as a ninja, I wouldn't want to squash your dreams.
The agreed upon definition of words is fluid and veganism is a spectrum. Clearly people here want to be strict about it but how does her self-identity as a vegan harm you? Do you think she is going to eat your chicken? She already said she only occasionally eats eggs. Your chicken and your identity as a non-vegan remain safe.
Check your omnivore privilege.
Ooooh. SJW territory here. Logic doesn't hold sway, I see. You're right whatever someone wants to believe privately doesn't affect me. But that doesn't change reality. Someone pointing out a factual statement shouldn't trigger you and get you upset.
You can consider veganism a spectrum, but I have never seen a definition that says "we totes hate animal suffering, but we can sometimes eat eggs and fish."
It's not about "dreams." I can't say "well being a doctor is a spectrum, so I'm going to forego all that medical training and open up a practice."
Assuming the privilege remark was not in jest, I don't think I this conversation can go anywhere of use. I'll see myself out. When you're ready to come out of your safe space with the cupcakes and puppy videos, we can chat.
What logic and reality are you trying to enforce? Clearly some people identify as vegan that are not as strictly "vegan" as you would have them (look at the examples given by not only the OP but even by @janetjellyroll). And there you are, the identity police, certified by none and somehow thinking that you can force your vegan-normative viewpoint with no sensitivity on the eating dysphoria you may be causing.
Being a doctor is an excellent example of what veganism isn't. It isn't a board certified function. It isn't a degree program. People without degrees in medicine maybe healthcare professionals and healers. Just like vegans might not fit your world-view or supposed "reality".
Are your cupcakes vegan?
(ps - your assumption was incorrect)
First, thank you for calling me on that really *kitten* example I gave. Let me try to put some thought behind a post before I hit send...
The response I gave to the other post about religion is slightly better. To expand on it a little: if I were to say that I do not believe in any gods, I am an atheist by definition. The definition of atheism is a lack of belief in gods. If I believe in Odin or Zeus or Ra or any of the other thousands of gods that have had religions based around them, then, by definition, I am not an atheist. This is the point I was trying to get across with the vegan definition. A person's identity is not a consideration when you are using the label based on the definition. If someone wants to personally believe that they are a vegan, that is fine, but if they don't fit the colloquial definition of the word, someone else can point that out. @MakePeasNotWar just gave another good example.
I'm not trying to enforce a viewpoint at all. I'm just defining a word as it is widely defined and applying it to the situation here. I mean no harm by it at all. If I went to the store and bought some mushroom burgers that were labeled "vegan," I'd be pretty pissed to find out that the company decided that eggs were okay to be used as an ingredient.
@janejellyroll pointed to some valid concerns with fuzzing of the definition, which is more important than anything i've said so far, and also pointed out that this is kind of stemming from a likely misinterpretation of the post anyway.
I don't know if the cupcakes are vegan. I'm not allowed in the safe room because I might offend someone with definitions and facts. If anybody wants to bring some out to me, i'll only take them if they're vegan... as in no eggs, please. Thank you.
And for the record, while I don't have a degree in identity enforcement, I do identify as an identity deputy, so please respect my identity as such.
Ok, I'll stop taking the piss. Have you heard of Poe's Law? It might explain my post, mostly.
The other part is a bit about semiotics and how we use language on this site. Honestly, my own map of what veganism is mostly structured around three things - food labelling which is a certification process ( by the way, food certified vegan may actually contain egg or other animal traces, as a cross contaminant), an ethical lifestyle that precludes animal products and a way of eating. The way of eating is where people commonly have more fluidity in the definition (aka make mistakes). That fluidity in definition (with as much difficulty as it may raise) is real - it is something sufficiently common that one should reflect on the inexactness of language and how we use it.
Take for example your word "atheism" - my ex works on the history of ideas and somewhere along the way I learned from her that the term really come into being in the 18th C French Literary scene (her specialty) and saw a shift in definition - in brief - a transition from absence of belief in gods (so-called 'savages' may be without the concept) to the belief that there are no gods. It encompassed a transition from areligious to agnostic to what we tend to now call atheist. Again, a nice spectrum. Is an agnostic, mystic that believes only in undefined forces atheist or only the hardcore 'only causal science' the only definition of atheism.
Are vegan cupcakes any good? I've mostly never had vegan-specific food.
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MakePeasNotWar wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »To the OP, IMO just do it and be confident about it, as it seems you were happier and felt better. I seriously doubt that anyone you really care about will be bothered by how you eat, even though it sometimes seems as if diets are little sports teams (or political parties) out to score points against the others.
MAKE DIETS GREAT AGAIN!
Vote Vegan!
A tofurkey in every pot, and a Prius in every garage
*shudder*
Perhaps we first need to agree on the definition of "GREAT".1 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TheCrawlingChaos wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TheCrawlingChaos wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TheCrawlingChaos wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »i am 100% here to support you! I am (mostly... lol) on a vegan diet.. and ONLY for health reasons... literally.. go a week without dairy and see how you feel haha... but not only am i vegan.. (or vegetarian? not sure..) i still eat eggs and occasionally i eat fish.. i dont eat any dairy and the only grain i eat is quinoa and the occasional rice noodle recipe.
as for the previous post ^^^ you DONT need "animal one in proper proportions"... there are soo many things out there you could be eating than gross processed meat.. you can get get it from tofu, soft tofu you can put in sauces and shakes/smoothies, firm tofu you can cook just like any animal meat.. you can also get protein from beans (white beans, black beans are the best), peas, spinach, Brussels sprouts, broccoli, etc. .. so many choices.
you are free to view my diary any time you want.. again.. nobodys perfect so some days i miss, some days i cheat horribly haha but for the most of my days i'm eating vegetarian/vegan.
feel free to add me for support!
I think we can safely mark that open item as closed now.
You are not vegan. Or even vegetarian.
If she self-identifies as vegan why are you so hegemonic with your definitions?
I'm not sure that makes sense. It doesn't matter what you identify as, that doesnt change the factual reality. I can identify as an astronaut/ninja/trillionaire movie star but that doesn't mean I am any of those things in reality.
If the agreed upon definition of vegan is one who abstains from the use of animal products, then i don't think you can use animal products and say you're still a vegan. That is not what the word means.
If you identified as a ninja, I wouldn't want to squash your dreams.
The agreed upon definition of words is fluid and veganism is a spectrum. Clearly people here want to be strict about it but how does her self-identity as a vegan harm you? Do you think she is going to eat your chicken? She already said she only occasionally eats eggs. Your chicken and your identity as a non-vegan remain safe.
Check your omnivore privilege.
Ooooh. SJW territory here. Logic doesn't hold sway, I see. You're right whatever someone wants to believe privately doesn't affect me. But that doesn't change reality. Someone pointing out a factual statement shouldn't trigger you and get you upset.
You can consider veganism a spectrum, but I have never seen a definition that says "we totes hate animal suffering, but we can sometimes eat eggs and fish."
It's not about "dreams." I can't say "well being a doctor is a spectrum, so I'm going to forego all that medical training and open up a practice."
Assuming the privilege remark was not in jest, I don't think I this conversation can go anywhere of use. I'll see myself out. When you're ready to come out of your safe space with the cupcakes and puppy videos, we can chat.
What logic and reality are you trying to enforce? Clearly some people identify as vegan that are not as strictly "vegan" as you would have them (look at the examples given by not only the OP but even by @janetjellyroll). And there you are, the identity police, certified by none and somehow thinking that you can force your vegan-normative viewpoint with no sensitivity on the eating dysphoria you may be causing.
Being a doctor is an excellent example of what veganism isn't. It isn't a board certified function. It isn't a degree program. People without degrees in medicine maybe healthcare professionals and healers. Just like vegans might not fit your world-view or supposed "reality".
Are your cupcakes vegan?
(ps - your assumption was incorrect)
First, thank you for calling me on that really *kitten* example I gave. Let me try to put some thought behind a post before I hit send...
The response I gave to the other post about religion is slightly better. To expand on it a little: if I were to say that I do not believe in any gods, I am an atheist by definition. The definition of atheism is a lack of belief in gods. If I believe in Odin or Zeus or Ra or any of the other thousands of gods that have had religions based around them, then, by definition, I am not an atheist. This is the point I was trying to get across with the vegan definition. A person's identity is not a consideration when you are using the label based on the definition. If someone wants to personally believe that they are a vegan, that is fine, but if they don't fit the colloquial definition of the word, someone else can point that out. @MakePeasNotWar just gave another good example.
I'm not trying to enforce a viewpoint at all. I'm just defining a word as it is widely defined and applying it to the situation here. I mean no harm by it at all. If I went to the store and bought some mushroom burgers that were labeled "vegan," I'd be pretty pissed to find out that the company decided that eggs were okay to be used as an ingredient.
@janejellyroll pointed to some valid concerns with fuzzing of the definition, which is more important than anything i've said so far, and also pointed out that this is kind of stemming from a likely misinterpretation of the post anyway.
I don't know if the cupcakes are vegan. I'm not allowed in the safe room because I might offend someone with definitions and facts. If anybody wants to bring some out to me, i'll only take them if they're vegan... as in no eggs, please. Thank you.
And for the record, while I don't have a degree in identity enforcement, I do identify as an identity deputy, so please respect my identity as such.
Ok, I'll stop taking the piss. Have you heard of Poe's Law? It might explain my post, mostly.
The other part is a bit about semiotics and how we use language on this site. Honestly, my own map of what veganism is mostly structured around three things - food labelling which is a certification process ( by the way, food certified vegan may actually contain egg or other animal traces, as a cross contaminant), an ethical lifestyle that precludes animal products and a way of eating. The way of eating is where people commonly have more fluidity in the definition (aka make mistakes). That fluidity in definition (with as much difficulty as it may raise) is real - it is something sufficiently common that one should reflect on the inexactness of language and how we use it.
Take for example your word "atheism" - my ex works on the history of ideas and somewhere along the way I learned from her that the term really come into being in the 18th C French Literary scene (her specialty) and saw a shift in definition - in brief - a transition from absence of belief in gods (so-called 'savages' may be without the concept) to the belief that there are no gods. It encompassed a transition from areligious to agnostic to what we tend to now call atheist. Again, a nice spectrum. Is an agnostic, mystic that believes only in undefined forces atheist or only the hardcore 'only causal science' the only definition of atheism.
Are vegan cupcakes any good? I've mostly never had vegan-specific food.
yes, i've heard of Poe's law. It is precisely why I had difficulty deciding if i wanted to respond or not.
i think the concern of agnosticism and atheism still does address two different questions. Atheism being "do you believe in a god" and agnostic being "do you know if there is a god." A person may be both an atheist and an agnostic, an atheist and not an agnostic, or even a christian and an agnostic.
i've never had vegan cupcakes so I can't say either if they're good or not.0 -
TheCrawlingChaos wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TheCrawlingChaos wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TheCrawlingChaos wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TheCrawlingChaos wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »i am 100% here to support you! I am (mostly... lol) on a vegan diet.. and ONLY for health reasons... literally.. go a week without dairy and see how you feel haha... but not only am i vegan.. (or vegetarian? not sure..) i still eat eggs and occasionally i eat fish.. i dont eat any dairy and the only grain i eat is quinoa and the occasional rice noodle recipe.
as for the previous post ^^^ you DONT need "animal one in proper proportions"... there are soo many things out there you could be eating than gross processed meat.. you can get get it from tofu, soft tofu you can put in sauces and shakes/smoothies, firm tofu you can cook just like any animal meat.. you can also get protein from beans (white beans, black beans are the best), peas, spinach, Brussels sprouts, broccoli, etc. .. so many choices.
you are free to view my diary any time you want.. again.. nobodys perfect so some days i miss, some days i cheat horribly haha but for the most of my days i'm eating vegetarian/vegan.
feel free to add me for support!
I think we can safely mark that open item as closed now.
You are not vegan. Or even vegetarian.
If she self-identifies as vegan why are you so hegemonic with your definitions?
I'm not sure that makes sense. It doesn't matter what you identify as, that doesnt change the factual reality. I can identify as an astronaut/ninja/trillionaire movie star but that doesn't mean I am any of those things in reality.
If the agreed upon definition of vegan is one who abstains from the use of animal products, then i don't think you can use animal products and say you're still a vegan. That is not what the word means.
If you identified as a ninja, I wouldn't want to squash your dreams.
The agreed upon definition of words is fluid and veganism is a spectrum. Clearly people here want to be strict about it but how does her self-identity as a vegan harm you? Do you think she is going to eat your chicken? She already said she only occasionally eats eggs. Your chicken and your identity as a non-vegan remain safe.
Check your omnivore privilege.
Ooooh. SJW territory here. Logic doesn't hold sway, I see. You're right whatever someone wants to believe privately doesn't affect me. But that doesn't change reality. Someone pointing out a factual statement shouldn't trigger you and get you upset.
You can consider veganism a spectrum, but I have never seen a definition that says "we totes hate animal suffering, but we can sometimes eat eggs and fish."
It's not about "dreams." I can't say "well being a doctor is a spectrum, so I'm going to forego all that medical training and open up a practice."
Assuming the privilege remark was not in jest, I don't think I this conversation can go anywhere of use. I'll see myself out. When you're ready to come out of your safe space with the cupcakes and puppy videos, we can chat.
What logic and reality are you trying to enforce? Clearly some people identify as vegan that are not as strictly "vegan" as you would have them (look at the examples given by not only the OP but even by @janetjellyroll). And there you are, the identity police, certified by none and somehow thinking that you can force your vegan-normative viewpoint with no sensitivity on the eating dysphoria you may be causing.
Being a doctor is an excellent example of what veganism isn't. It isn't a board certified function. It isn't a degree program. People without degrees in medicine maybe healthcare professionals and healers. Just like vegans might not fit your world-view or supposed "reality".
Are your cupcakes vegan?
(ps - your assumption was incorrect)
First, thank you for calling me on that really *kitten* example I gave. Let me try to put some thought behind a post before I hit send...
The response I gave to the other post about religion is slightly better. To expand on it a little: if I were to say that I do not believe in any gods, I am an atheist by definition. The definition of atheism is a lack of belief in gods. If I believe in Odin or Zeus or Ra or any of the other thousands of gods that have had religions based around them, then, by definition, I am not an atheist. This is the point I was trying to get across with the vegan definition. A person's identity is not a consideration when you are using the label based on the definition. If someone wants to personally believe that they are a vegan, that is fine, but if they don't fit the colloquial definition of the word, someone else can point that out. @MakePeasNotWar just gave another good example.
I'm not trying to enforce a viewpoint at all. I'm just defining a word as it is widely defined and applying it to the situation here. I mean no harm by it at all. If I went to the store and bought some mushroom burgers that were labeled "vegan," I'd be pretty pissed to find out that the company decided that eggs were okay to be used as an ingredient.
@janejellyroll pointed to some valid concerns with fuzzing of the definition, which is more important than anything i've said so far, and also pointed out that this is kind of stemming from a likely misinterpretation of the post anyway.
I don't know if the cupcakes are vegan. I'm not allowed in the safe room because I might offend someone with definitions and facts. If anybody wants to bring some out to me, i'll only take them if they're vegan... as in no eggs, please. Thank you.
And for the record, while I don't have a degree in identity enforcement, I do identify as an identity deputy, so please respect my identity as such.
Ok, I'll stop taking the piss. Have you heard of Poe's Law? It might explain my post, mostly.
The other part is a bit about semiotics and how we use language on this site. Honestly, my own map of what veganism is mostly structured around three things - food labelling which is a certification process ( by the way, food certified vegan may actually contain egg or other animal traces, as a cross contaminant), an ethical lifestyle that precludes animal products and a way of eating. The way of eating is where people commonly have more fluidity in the definition (aka make mistakes). That fluidity in definition (with as much difficulty as it may raise) is real - it is something sufficiently common that one should reflect on the inexactness of language and how we use it.
Take for example your word "atheism" - my ex works on the history of ideas and somewhere along the way I learned from her that the term really come into being in the 18th C French Literary scene (her specialty) and saw a shift in definition - in brief - a transition from absence of belief in gods (so-called 'savages' may be without the concept) to the belief that there are no gods. It encompassed a transition from areligious to agnostic to what we tend to now call atheist. Again, a nice spectrum. Is an agnostic, mystic that believes only in undefined forces atheist or only the hardcore 'only causal science' the only definition of atheism.
Are vegan cupcakes any good? I've mostly never had vegan-specific food.
yes, i've heard of Poe's law. It is precisely why I had difficulty deciding if i wanted to respond or not.
i think the concern of agnosticism and atheism still does address two different questions. Atheism being "do you believe in a god" and agnostic being "do you know if there is a god." A person may be both an atheist and an agnostic, an atheist and not an agnostic, or even a christian and an agnostic.
i've never had vegan cupcakes so I can't say either if they're good or not.
Glad you did.
Definitely much more complex...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_and_explicit_atheism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TheCrawlingChaos wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TheCrawlingChaos wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TheCrawlingChaos wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »TheCrawlingChaos wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »i am 100% here to support you! I am (mostly... lol) on a vegan diet.. and ONLY for health reasons... literally.. go a week without dairy and see how you feel haha... but not only am i vegan.. (or vegetarian? not sure..) i still eat eggs and occasionally i eat fish.. i dont eat any dairy and the only grain i eat is quinoa and the occasional rice noodle recipe.
as for the previous post ^^^ you DONT need "animal one in proper proportions"... there are soo many things out there you could be eating than gross processed meat.. you can get get it from tofu, soft tofu you can put in sauces and shakes/smoothies, firm tofu you can cook just like any animal meat.. you can also get protein from beans (white beans, black beans are the best), peas, spinach, Brussels sprouts, broccoli, etc. .. so many choices.
you are free to view my diary any time you want.. again.. nobodys perfect so some days i miss, some days i cheat horribly haha but for the most of my days i'm eating vegetarian/vegan.
feel free to add me for support!
I think we can safely mark that open item as closed now.
You are not vegan. Or even vegetarian.
If she self-identifies as vegan why are you so hegemonic with your definitions?
I'm not sure that makes sense. It doesn't matter what you identify as, that doesnt change the factual reality. I can identify as an astronaut/ninja/trillionaire movie star but that doesn't mean I am any of those things in reality.
If the agreed upon definition of vegan is one who abstains from the use of animal products, then i don't think you can use animal products and say you're still a vegan. That is not what the word means.
If you identified as a ninja, I wouldn't want to squash your dreams.
The agreed upon definition of words is fluid and veganism is a spectrum. Clearly people here want to be strict about it but how does her self-identity as a vegan harm you? Do you think she is going to eat your chicken? She already said she only occasionally eats eggs. Your chicken and your identity as a non-vegan remain safe.
Check your omnivore privilege.
Ooooh. SJW territory here. Logic doesn't hold sway, I see. You're right whatever someone wants to believe privately doesn't affect me. But that doesn't change reality. Someone pointing out a factual statement shouldn't trigger you and get you upset.
You can consider veganism a spectrum, but I have never seen a definition that says "we totes hate animal suffering, but we can sometimes eat eggs and fish."
It's not about "dreams." I can't say "well being a doctor is a spectrum, so I'm going to forego all that medical training and open up a practice."
Assuming the privilege remark was not in jest, I don't think I this conversation can go anywhere of use. I'll see myself out. When you're ready to come out of your safe space with the cupcakes and puppy videos, we can chat.
What logic and reality are you trying to enforce? Clearly some people identify as vegan that are not as strictly "vegan" as you would have them (look at the examples given by not only the OP but even by @janetjellyroll). And there you are, the identity police, certified by none and somehow thinking that you can force your vegan-normative viewpoint with no sensitivity on the eating dysphoria you may be causing.
Being a doctor is an excellent example of what veganism isn't. It isn't a board certified function. It isn't a degree program. People without degrees in medicine maybe healthcare professionals and healers. Just like vegans might not fit your world-view or supposed "reality".
Are your cupcakes vegan?
(ps - your assumption was incorrect)
First, thank you for calling me on that really *kitten* example I gave. Let me try to put some thought behind a post before I hit send...
The response I gave to the other post about religion is slightly better. To expand on it a little: if I were to say that I do not believe in any gods, I am an atheist by definition. The definition of atheism is a lack of belief in gods. If I believe in Odin or Zeus or Ra or any of the other thousands of gods that have had religions based around them, then, by definition, I am not an atheist. This is the point I was trying to get across with the vegan definition. A person's identity is not a consideration when you are using the label based on the definition. If someone wants to personally believe that they are a vegan, that is fine, but if they don't fit the colloquial definition of the word, someone else can point that out. @MakePeasNotWar just gave another good example.
I'm not trying to enforce a viewpoint at all. I'm just defining a word as it is widely defined and applying it to the situation here. I mean no harm by it at all. If I went to the store and bought some mushroom burgers that were labeled "vegan," I'd be pretty pissed to find out that the company decided that eggs were okay to be used as an ingredient.
@janejellyroll pointed to some valid concerns with fuzzing of the definition, which is more important than anything i've said so far, and also pointed out that this is kind of stemming from a likely misinterpretation of the post anyway.
I don't know if the cupcakes are vegan. I'm not allowed in the safe room because I might offend someone with definitions and facts. If anybody wants to bring some out to me, i'll only take them if they're vegan... as in no eggs, please. Thank you.
And for the record, while I don't have a degree in identity enforcement, I do identify as an identity deputy, so please respect my identity as such.
Ok, I'll stop taking the piss. Have you heard of Poe's Law? It might explain my post, mostly.
The other part is a bit about semiotics and how we use language on this site. Honestly, my own map of what veganism is mostly structured around three things - food labelling which is a certification process ( by the way, food certified vegan may actually contain egg or other animal traces, as a cross contaminant), an ethical lifestyle that precludes animal products and a way of eating. The way of eating is where people commonly have more fluidity in the definition (aka make mistakes). That fluidity in definition (with as much difficulty as it may raise) is real - it is something sufficiently common that one should reflect on the inexactness of language and how we use it.
Take for example your word "atheism" - my ex works on the history of ideas and somewhere along the way I learned from her that the term really come into being in the 18th C French Literary scene (her specialty) and saw a shift in definition - in brief - a transition from absence of belief in gods (so-called 'savages' may be without the concept) to the belief that there are no gods. It encompassed a transition from areligious to agnostic to what we tend to now call atheist. Again, a nice spectrum. Is an agnostic, mystic that believes only in undefined forces atheist or only the hardcore 'only causal science' the only definition of atheism.
Are vegan cupcakes any good? I've mostly never had vegan-specific food.
yes, i've heard of Poe's law. It is precisely why I had difficulty deciding if i wanted to respond or not.
i think the concern of agnosticism and atheism still does address two different questions. Atheism being "do you believe in a god" and agnostic being "do you know if there is a god." A person may be both an atheist and an agnostic, an atheist and not an agnostic, or even a christian and an agnostic.
i've never had vegan cupcakes so I can't say either if they're good or not.
Glad you did.
Definitely much more complex...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_and_explicit_atheism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignosticism
fair enough, but wouldn't those be variations, or sub-categories on the overall terms of agnosticism or atheism? they aren't claiming to be the sole definition of the words, but merely expanding on the ideas.
anyway, good laugh. you got me good with my privilege and my identity policing. I don't want to continue to veer off topic here anymore than we already have.
OP, eat what you want. as long as you're being healthy, don't worry about what other's are telling you unless they are giving you some sound evidence that what you're doing is wrong.0 -
Google Diana Wehbe. She changed her life with a plant based whole foods diet. She teaches cooking classes at the local health food stores. Simple whole foods and delicious. She makes "buns" out of quinoa flour if she wants bread.1
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Let me get this straight...iamcallieu started this topic in order to get support from vegans in venturing into a more plant-based diet (whether full-blown vegan, veg-head, or somewhere in between), and she feared the keto/LCHF/Paleo community would give her a hard time for making a change??? Seems like this might have backfired for her by some of your comments.
I understand the morale issues with being vegan - which is what helped me to begin evolving into a primarily plant based diet. It may have begun with looking out for my health, but when you start to "like" vegan/vegetarian pages on Facebook, you are quickly enlightened about how awful animal agriculture is...so my reasons for not eating meat became outwardly focused, but the benefits are the same for my personal health.
I still eat an occasional egg (but only those from chickens who are raised at my friends house and are not abused or eaten), and I also have fish or seafood from time-to-time. I do NOT consider myself vegan because of these reasons - and because I know how strongly vegans feel about the use/exploitation of any animal for any reason, and they are so passionate about it.
That said, I think if I were a true 100% vegan, I would go out of my way to encourage those trying to take steps in this direction - not alienate them by insisting that they ARE NOT vegan. That really isn't the point here. The point is that she is wanting to make the change....and that is good for animals and for her.
I am in complete support of your desire to move back to a more plant-based diet iamcallieu. You should do what makes you feel good - and you should watch Earthlings and that will for sure help you see that the biggest reason to be vegan (or as close as you feel comfortable with in your own personal life) is to help end the atrocities committee against innocent animals.
Good luck and enjoy them fruits and veggies girl!1 -
Your body. Your choices for what to eat. If they don't like it they can get the **** over it. *HUGS*1
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MichPainter wrote: »Let me get this straight...iamcallieu started this topic in order to get support from vegans in venturing into a more plant-based diet (whether full-blown vegan, veg-head, or somewhere in between), and she feared the keto/LCHF/Paleo community would give her a hard time for making a change??? Seems like this might have backfired for her by some of your comments....
That said, I think if I were a true 100% vegan, I would go out of my way to encourage those trying to take steps in this direction - not alienate them by insisting that they ARE NOT vegan. That really isn't the point here. The point is that she is wanting to make the change....and that is good for animals and for her.
I think you misread the discussion. No one was telling OP that she was not a vegan, let alone discouraging her.
The comment about not being a vegan/vegetarian was made to a different poster who specifically raised the question of what to call herself:
"but not only am i vegan.. (or vegetarian? not sure..) i still eat eggs and occasionally i eat fish.."
I don't think anyone was discouraging her either, but simply explaining the terms as they understand them.
(I'm not a vegan, but I'm supportive of veganism for those who feel like it's the right decision for their health or ethics.)1 -
Veganism is sustainable for the long run, unlike keto...Ketosis is the body's coping mechanism for STARVATION. I don't know about you but I'm not particularly fond of being in a state of starvation and having my brain deprived of glucose. We're designed to run on carbs...I could get into rant on low-carb diets but I won't.
Here are some vegan and vegan-orientated YouTube channels that may offer guidance.
www.youtube.com/user/BiteSizeVegan
www.youtube.com/user/NutritionFactsOrg
Ultimately your diet is your choice and you shouldn't really care what others are thinking of it. If you enjoy the vegan lifestyle/diet and it makes you feel good about yourself (health and/or morally) then go with that, fck the haters.3 -
Thank you all for the help. I truly appreciate it - especially those of you who offered me courage. That is really what I needed.1
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Back to the OP for a second.iamcallieu wrote: »Most of my MFPals are part of the keto/LCHF/Paleo community and I feel very cornered. I know they'll judge me when they see I'm returning to my vegan lifestyle. And I must admit, I'm SCARED, because of all of the info (brainwashing) about carb cycling/how bad fruit is for me/grain fear etc from this past year. I really need some support, y'all
If you belong to any of the Keto/LCHF/Paleo groups here at MFP and are no longer interested in following those ways of eating, your simplest solution is to unsubscribe from those groups. Just go to the group's home page and you'll see a green "Options" button near the top. Click on it and you'll get the "Leave Group" button. Click on that and you will be removed from the group.
You can also unfriend any individuals from your profile page so they are no longer able to follow (or comment) on anything you might post on your wall. And if you're afraid that any of them will judge you, they weren't really friends in the first place, so no big loss.
Good luck to you on your new food adventure. 1 -
iamcallieu wrote: »Thank you all for the help. I truly appreciate it - especially those of you who offered me courage. That is really what I needed.
Listen, you have to do what's right for you. If Keto made you feel like crap for a year then it probably isn't for you( it's not for me either)
Don't worry about it. There's plenty of other members here who eat a well balanced wide variety diet that you can make friends with. Don't worry about labels. Like I said, eat what you like and don't worry about if it fits within a specific way of eating. It's totally okay. I haven't eaten meat in about 35 yrs, but I'm not vegan. I'm not even vegetarian. I eat eggs, who cares! It's okay! Don't even sweat it.
What matters is that you've figured out what doesn't work for you( Keto) and are moving forward.
Start by reading through threads here, try to unlearn some of the nonsense like fruit is bad. Start sending requests to others you may be interested in and leave all of the groups or friends that you are no longer interested in.
You can do this!1 -
amorfati601070 wrote: »Veganism is sustainable for the long run, unlike keto...Ketosis is the body's coping mechanism for STARVATION. I don't know about you but I'm not particularly fond of being in a state of starvation and having my brain deprived of glucose. We're designed to run on carbs...I could get into rant on low-carb diets but I won't.
Here are some vegan and vegan-orientated YouTube channels that may offer guidance.
www.youtube.com/user/BiteSizeVegan
www.youtube.com/user/NutritionFactsOrg
Ultimately your diet is your choice and you shouldn't really care what others are thinking of it. If you enjoy the vegan lifestyle/diet and it makes you feel good about yourself (health and/or morally) then go with that, fck the haters.
Did you really just say that keto is not sustainable long term and it deprives the brain of glucose?
:huh:2 -
^ This. I don't even see the dilemma here. There's no need to go make an announcement from the mountaintops in every keto forum that you've decided to change your diet, and stick around to endure a bunch of people offering their opinions and giving you crap about it. Do what you're going to do and don't make a big deal of it. Who cares what anybody else thinks? They're not buying your food and they're not living in your body, so it's none of their business what/how you eat.snickerscharlie wrote: »Back to the OP for a second.iamcallieu wrote: »Most of my MFPals are part of the keto/LCHF/Paleo community and I feel very cornered. I know they'll judge me when they see I'm returning to my vegan lifestyle. And I must admit, I'm SCARED, because of all of the info (brainwashing) about carb cycling/how bad fruit is for me/grain fear etc from this past year. I really need some support, y'all
If you belong to any of the Keto/LCHF/Paleo groups here at MFP and are no longer interested in following those ways of eating, your simplest solution is to unsubscribe from those groups. Just go to the group's home page and you'll see a green "Options" button near the top. Click on it and you'll get the "Leave Group" button. Click on that and you will be removed from the group.
You can also unfriend any individuals from your profile page so they are no longer able to follow (or comment) on anything you might post on your wall. And if you're afraid that any of them will judge you, they weren't really friends in the first place, so no big loss.
Good luck to you on your new food adventure.
If I'd driven Fords all my life and belonged to several Ford forums/userlists, and suddenly decided I was going to buy a Chevy instead, I wouldn't see any reason to go to every one of the Ford forums and post "Hay guise, just so you know, I've decided to buy a Chevy so I won't be driving a Ford or posting here any more". I'd just go buy the Chevy and log out of the Ford forums.1 -
iamcallieu wrote: »Hi all, looking for support within the vegan community here. I was vegetarian vegan for years with the support of a homeopath. I was in the best health of my life, feeling amazing (and at a healthy weight) when I got pregnant with my 3rd child. Having moved away from my homeopath, I began eating meat again during my pregnancy, then a naturopath put me on a low carb, high fat diet about a year ago. I've been in and out if keto for a year and though I have lost much of my weight, I've felt HORRIBLE for an entire year. Exhausted, constantly thirsty abs my hormones are a MESS.
Most of my MFPals are part of the keto/LCHF/Paleo community and I feel very cornered. I know they'll judge me when they see I'm returning to my vegan lifestyle. And I must admit, I'm SCARED, because of all of the info (brainwashing) about carb cycling/how bad fruit is for me/grain fear etc from this past year. I really need some support, y'all
You have the right to eat the diet you choose. If they judge you for going back to vegan then you might want to look at getting some new friends.
Eat to please you not them.1 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »amorfati601070 wrote: »Veganism is sustainable for the long run, unlike keto...Ketosis is the body's coping mechanism for STARVATION. I don't know about you but I'm not particularly fond of being in a state of starvation and having my brain deprived of glucose. We're designed to run on carbs...I could get into rant on low-carb diets but I won't.
Here are some vegan and vegan-orientated YouTube channels that may offer guidance.
www.youtube.com/user/BiteSizeVegan
www.youtube.com/user/NutritionFactsOrg
Ultimately your diet is your choice and you shouldn't really care what others are thinking of it. If you enjoy the vegan lifestyle/diet and it makes you feel good about yourself (health and/or morally) then go with that, fck the haters.
Did you really just say that keto is not sustainable long term and it deprives the brain of glucose?
:huh:
Yeah, because it just a fad diet but sure..you can lose weight, a lot of it is just water. So what? It's not sustainable because it will literally kill you. Take out the carbs and fill the void with foods with laden with saturated fat and cholesterol and set your self up for chronic diseases. If you take a look at the longest living people (Okinawan), their traditional diets are like 95% plant-based with most calories coming from complex carbs like sweet potato.0 -
It's the best decision you could ever make, going vegan. Not only are you treating yourself and your body with respect, you're vowing to be kind to ALL living things. It's the picture of proper stewardship over everything God has given us. 0
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Why would a LCHF person need to judge you when you've already demonstrated that you have enough wisdom to consume meat during pregnancy? Veg on if you want.0
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oliviaohair wrote: »It's the best decision you could ever make, going vegan. Not only are you treating yourself and your body with respect, you're vowing to be kind to ALL living things. It's the picture of proper stewardship over everything God has given us.
Going vegan is simply not for everyone. Trying to make people who - for whatever reason - can't go vegan feel like they're somehow second-class is disturbing and unfair. And adding God into it just makes it worse. Doesn't "being kind to ALL living things" include your fellow man?6
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