You NEED to stop calorie counting and restricting!
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We are flesh and blood, living proof CICO works... I have been on all diets known to humans, and this life style works for me!! It is not hard if you make it like a game.. a game of life...survival!0
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I lost weight last time (80+ lbs) without counting a single calorie. I increased my activity level and switched my portions up to have the salad or whatever as my main course with the protein and starches as smaller sides. It worked for me then.
This time Im older and my auto-immune/hormonal issues have progressed. What worked before didnt work this time so I joined MFP and worked with my doctor to design a new approach.
Different things work for different people. And different approaches might work for the same person at different points in their life.
The vast majority of people who lose weight don't count calories. You are one of many.
Kudos to those who count calories. It is something I could never do.
I count calories. I'm down 110.2 lbs as of this morning. I also had sushi and an ice cream sandwich as part of my meals today, because I counted calories and knew I could eat them and still lose weight. Like every day I've had since last July. Oh, and I've done almost no exercise either in that time. Looks like CICO likes me just fine.3 -
Multiple scientists have done self-experiments where they literally tried to get fat on high fat/low carb, gorging themselves with 5000 calories a day, and can't gain more than four pounds over several months. If calories were the only thing that mattered, they should have gained that in a week, and kept gaining. Yes, sample size is low, but it's clearly possible to do that.
When you're eating low carb, hunger and cravings are rare for most people anyway. So you're still eating few calories just naturally. As long as you're eating plenty of (low carb) veggies, this usually makes calorie counting irrelevant (depending how low carb you go), although you do still have to count carbs. Reducing carbs keeps blood sugar from getting elevated too high, which leads to fat storage. Protein and fat don't elevate blood sugar. So possibly eating your maintenance number of calories but going low carb could lead to fat loss, since you can't absorb the calories you eat as well? I don't know the science on that one.
And if you aren't eating plenty of protein (.85 g/lb of body weight) and strength training you're going to get skinny but not look as good as you could if you were toned. Getting toned can make a HUGE difference in appearance, making it so you may not even have to lose as much weight, although muscle does help burn calories.
BUT most people have a very bad idea of what's healthy and what's not, usually the product of bad marketing. They'll eat flavored yogurt, protein powder, maple syrup, honey, whole wheat, 100-calorie packs, aspartame, Gatorade, fruit juice, low-fat this and all-natural that, granola and fruit (all sugar, and a lot of it fructose) thinking it's good for you. It's not, people, and all that sugar is absolutely terrible for your heart and weight loss. The US's percent daily values are bad too, recommending double the carbs and half the protein most good cardiologists and bodybuilders would. That's to feed the sugar/grain industry. Count calories and grams (not %DV) of different nutrients in the nutrition facts. Calories, macros, plus avoiding a few blood sugar-spiking ingredients are the only thing that matters for weight loss and muscle building. For health, you also need to focus on the foods themselves--what kind of fat they contain, how much sugar etc.
TL;DR, Choosing foods wisely is just another way to create a caloric deficit, you could say, but you need to make sure you know what "choosing foods wisely" even means.1 -
Asher_Ethan wrote: »Because people want an easy way out and counting calories is too hard.
...and they want weight loss FAST. It takes time and patience to stick with something like weight management long term.1 -
WHY DO I KEEP READING THIS EVERYWHERE ONLINE?
Calorie counting on MFP has been a game changer for me and it's so irritating when people keep saying calories don't matter and you can eat as much as you want of "healthy" foods and still lose weight
Thoughts??
Actually it doesn't matter and you shouldn't be irritated when someone doesn't agree to your opinion.
And if you eat as much as you want than you won't lose weight unless you want to eat less.
Eat not more than 1/3 rd of your stomach not more than 3 times a day. And drink not more than 1/3 rd of your stomach not more than 3 times a day. You will lose weight. Eat clean though.0 -
squatsnotsquat wrote: »Multiple scientists have done self-experiments where they literally tried to get fat on high fat/low carb, gorging themselves with 5000 calories a day, and can't gain more than four pounds over several months.
No, multiple scientists have not done metabolic ward level controlled experiments like this eating at that kind of hypercaloric level for months.
One guy did a self experiment for one month in free living conditions.
Hardly a gold standard in proof.11 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »squatsnotsquat wrote: »Multiple scientists have done self-experiments where they literally tried to get fat on high fat/low carb, gorging themselves with 5000 calories a day, and can't gain more than four pounds over several months.
No, multiple scientists have not done metabolic ward level controlled experiments like this eating at that kind of hypercaloric level for months.
One guy did a self experiment for one month in free living conditions.
Hardly a gold standard in proof.
yes, and anyone who thinks that CICO doesn't apply simply because you're eating "high fat" and hight fat "doesn't cause an insulin response".... i just... LOL Good Luck with that6 -
They would never give the same advice applied to money and unhealthy finances LOL. Your body has a budget and it's governed by the laws of thermodynamics. You can stop getting the receipts at the ATM every time you make a withdrawal but your bank account is still going to to deplete nomsayin?3
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rainbowbow wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »squatsnotsquat wrote: »Multiple scientists have done self-experiments where they literally tried to get fat on high fat/low carb, gorging themselves with 5000 calories a day, and can't gain more than four pounds over several months.
No, multiple scientists have not done metabolic ward level controlled experiments like this eating at that kind of hypercaloric level for months.
One guy did a self experiment for one month in free living conditions.
Hardly a gold standard in proof.
yes, and anyone who thinks that CICO doesn't apply simply because you're eating "high fat" and hight fat "doesn't cause an insulin response".... i just... LOL Good Luck with that
Funny, that. In metabolic ward conditions, that insulin theory was... disproved ... in research funded by the people seeking to prove it.3 -
squatsnotsquat wrote: »Multiple scientists have done self-experiments where they literally tried to get fat on high fat/low carb, gorging themselves with 5000 calories a day, and can't gain more than four pounds over several months. If calories were the only thing that mattered, they should have gained that in a week, and kept gaining. Yes, sample size is low, but it's clearly possible to do that.
I am going need to see citations for that please.
Here is a story of a nutrition professor eating nothing but Twinkies and losing 27 pounds: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/
And here is a science teacher who lost 60 pounds eating nothing but McDonalds: http://abc7.com/health/teacher-loses-60-pounds-while-eating-nothing-but-mcdonalds/705916/squatsnotsquat wrote: »And if you aren't eating plenty of protein (.85 g/lb of body weight) and strength training you're going to get skinny but not look as good as you could if you were toned. Getting toned can make a HUGE difference in appearance, making it so you may not even have to lose as much weight, although muscle does help burn calories.
Do you mean lb or kg? Because this from Harvard says g/kg: http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/how-much-protein-do-you-need-every-day-201506188096
I am not aware of any professional organization (Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, American College of Sports Medicine) that has protein recommendations in g/pound, so please cite this.squatsnotsquat wrote: »BUT most people have a very bad idea of what's healthy and what's not, usually the product of bad marketing. They'll eat flavored yogurt, protein powder, maple syrup, honey, whole wheat, 100-calorie packs, aspartame, Gatorade, fruit juice, low-fat this and all-natural that, granola and fruit (all sugar, and a lot of it fructose) thinking it's good for you. It's not, people, and all that sugar is absolutely terrible for your heart and weight loss. The US's percent daily values are bad too, recommending double the carbs and half the protein most good cardiologists and bodybuilders would. That's to feed the sugar/grain industry. Count calories and grams (not %DV) of different nutrients in the nutrition facts. Calories, macros, plus avoiding a few blood sugar-spiking ingredients are the only thing that matters for weight loss and muscle building. For health, you also need to focus on the foods themselves--what kind of fat they contain, how much sugar etc.
Fruit is not unhealthy and there is no evidence that it causes weight gain when eaten within your calorie allowance. Diets high in fruit have consistently been linked to healthier body weights and lower risk of heart disease and diabetes. Fruit may be high in sugar as compared to celery, but if you drink 24 ounces of pop you would have to eat 6 4 oz apples to get that amount of sugar. In order for the sugar in fruit to be detrimental for your health, you need to eat pounds of it daily.
Aspartame has been around since 1965 and there is no research in humans that it causes cancer or other health problems. It was causing cancer in rats because they where feeding the rats huge amounts. You would have to drink like 2,000 cans a day. This is from the National Cancer Institute: https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/causes-prevention/risk/diet/artificial-sweeteners-fact-sheet
The dose makes the poison of everything.
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squatsnotsquat wrote: »Multiple scientists have done self-experiments where they literally tried to get fat on high fat/low carb, gorging themselves with 5000 calories a day, and can't gain more than four pounds over several months. If calories were the only thing that mattered, they should have gained that in a week, and kept gaining. Yes, sample size is low, but it's clearly possible to do that.
When you're eating low carb, hunger and cravings are rare for most people anyway. So you're still eating few calories just naturally. As long as you're eating plenty of (low carb) veggies, this usually makes calorie counting irrelevant (depending how low carb you go), although you do still have to count carbs. Reducing carbs keeps blood sugar from getting elevated too high, which leads to fat storage. Protein and fat don't elevate blood sugar. So possibly eating your maintenance number of calories but going low carb could lead to fat loss, since you can't absorb the calories you eat as well? I don't know the science on that one.
And if you aren't eating plenty of protein (.85 g/lb of body weight) and strength training you're going to get skinny but not look as good as you could if you were toned. Getting toned can make a HUGE difference in appearance, making it so you may not even have to lose as much weight, although muscle does help burn calories.
BUT most people have a very bad idea of what's healthy and what's not, usually the product of bad marketing. They'll eat flavored yogurt, protein powder, maple syrup, honey, whole wheat, 100-calorie packs, aspartame, Gatorade, fruit juice, low-fat this and all-natural that, granola and fruit (all sugar, and a lot of it fructose) thinking it's good for you. It's not, people, and all that sugar is absolutely terrible for your heart and weight loss. The US's percent daily values are bad too, recommending double the carbs and half the protein most good cardiologists and bodybuilders would. That's to feed the sugar/grain industry. Count calories and grams (not %DV) of different nutrients in the nutrition facts. Calories, macros, plus avoiding a few blood sugar-spiking ingredients are the only thing that matters for weight loss and muscle building. For health, you also need to focus on the foods themselves--what kind of fat they contain, how much sugar etc.
TL;DR, Choosing foods wisely is just another way to create a caloric deficit, you could say, but you need to make sure you know what "choosing foods wisely" even means.
So it would appear that you have falling for some of the propaganda within the LCHF/Keto community. Our bodies are fat storing machines. We continuously break down and store fat and glycogen. Saying otherwise is completely wrong. There are multiple hormones that can suppress hormone senstive lipase (HSL) which is the enzyme that breaks down body fat. When a person eats carbs, and protein to a less extent, insulin will increase. When insulin is release to regulate blood sugars, the enzyme lipoprotein lipase is release, which suppresses HSL. When you are on low carb or keto and eating high amounts of dietary fat, the enzyme Acylation Stimulating Protein (ASP) is more prevalent and it also suppresses HSL. And when you each a meal high in fat and carbs, the enzyme Glucosedependent Insulinotrophic Peptide (GIP) is released and HSL is also suppressed.
In the end, regardless of the diet you follow, the body can store fat.
Now lets talk muscle building. Carbs are king when it comes to building muscle? Why, because carbs cause the body to release insulin, which actives mTOR and protein synthesis (mechanical stress and leucine can as well), which can lead to increases in muscle mass. It's a bit harder in very low carb environments which is why in the body building community, they have TKD and CKD style diets. Also, carbs are anticatabolic and are protein sparring.3 -
My neighbour tells me this all the time and gets angry when I try to explain CICO. "It's not about how much you eat but what you eat. If you eat any junk food, you'll gain weight. Don't you dare try and tell me that CICO *kitten*". Her exact words to me yesterday (without the kitten bit lol). I just let her rant and moan about not losing weight despite eating "healthy" foods.3
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squatsnotsquat wrote: »
BUT most people have a very bad idea of what's healthy and what's not, usually the product of bad marketing. They'll eat flavored yogurt, protein powder, maple syrup, honey, whole wheat, 100-calorie packs, aspartame, Gatorade, fruit juice, low-fat this and all-natural that, granola and fruit (all sugar, and a lot of it fructose) thinking it's good for you. It's not, people, and all that sugar is absolutely terrible for your heart and weight loss.
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100% correct.
You forgot about the junk cereals (like Chocolate Cheerios) that have the large "Healthy Heart" label on the box, with the citation that Chocolate Cheerios can reduce your risk of heart disease because it contains no cholesterol. How is this even legal when it's false?
Guess General Mills donates millions to the American Heart Association for their "search for a cure." A total scam.0 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »100% correct.
You forgot about the junk cereals (like Chocolate Cheerios) that have the large "Healthy Heart" label on the box, with the citation that Chocolate Cheerios can reduce your risk of heart disease because it contains no cholesterol. How is this even legal when it's false?
Guess General Mills donates millions to the American Heart Association for their "search for a cure." A total scam.
If you really have a propensity to label foods, then you should also add processed meats, and large amounts of saturated fats. There are no benefits to SFA and improved health. At best, SFA from natural sources like meat and dairy, is neutral in nature.
ETA: you are so overly stuck on sugar is bad, that you fail to recognize that dietary context matters more than the individual components. You fail to recognize what is required to achieve peoples goal, and fail to recognize that even if you have a very low carb low sugar diet, that you can still have a very unhealthy diet.6 -
I could never dunk a basketball and probably never will. But it doesn't mean that others that have the ability to shouldn't try.gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I lost weight last time (80+ lbs) without counting a single calorie. I increased my activity level and switched my portions up to have the salad or whatever as my main course with the protein and starches as smaller sides. It worked for me then.
This time Im older and my auto-immune/hormonal issues have progressed. What worked before didnt work this time so I joined MFP and worked with my doctor to design a new approach.
Different things work for different people. And different approaches might work for the same person at different points in their life.
The vast majority of people who lose weight don't count calories. You are one of many.
Kudos to those who count calories. It is something I could never do.
The mentality you have against calorie counting defies how weight loss actually works, so please don't dissuade those that CAN actually do it.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Wynterbourne wrote: »gonetothedogs19 wrote: »I lost weight last time (80+ lbs) without counting a single calorie. I increased my activity level and switched my portions up to have the salad or whatever as my main course with the protein and starches as smaller sides. It worked for me then.
This time Im older and my auto-immune/hormonal issues have progressed. What worked before didnt work this time so I joined MFP and worked with my doctor to design a new approach.
Different things work for different people. And different approaches might work for the same person at different points in their life.
The vast majority of people who lose weight don't count calories. You are one of many.
Kudos to those who count calories. It is something I could never do.
I count calories. I'm down 110.2 lbs as of this morning. I also had sushi and an ice cream sandwich as part of my meals today, because I counted calories and knew I could eat them and still lose weight. Like every day I've had since last July. Oh, and I've done almost no exercise either in that time. Looks like CICO likes me just fine.
110lbs! that is mind boggling - you must get the most amazing comments! and you look like Annette Bening! It's all going on for you!0 -
gonetothedogs19 wrote: »
The vast majority of people who lose weight don't count calories. You are one of many.
Kudos to those who count calories. It is something I could never do.
Actually the vast majority of participants in the National Weight Control Registry do count calories. http://www.nwcr.ws/Research/published research.htm. See the second abstract, or read though them all if you have time.
At the end of the day counting calories is just being aware of how much and what you are eating. I don't understand why so many people feel so strongly against mindful eating.
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gonetothedogs19 wrote: »
The vast majority of people who lose weight don't count calories. You are one of many.
Kudos to those who count calories. It is something I could never do.
Actually the vast majority of participants in the National Weight Control Registry do count calories. http://www.nwcr.ws/Research/published research.htm. See the second abstract, or read though them all if you have time.
At the end of the day counting calories is just being aware of how much and what you are eating. I don't understand why so many people feel so strongly against mindful eating.
To me MFP is just a tool. No more different than using a fitbit or a bathroom scale. Its not required but increases accuracy and makes things more quantitative. That aspect enables me to have much greater granularity into my intake, from a calorie and macronutrient perspective, and increases my chances of losing weight.
For me, its been an eye opener as it has allowed me to make smarter choices to increase satiety and given me an understanding oh what combinations of foods increase satiation. And i quickly discovered thag diets that restricted foods i loved or the times i ate thise foods did not work well with me. By doing this i have lost 50lbs and become more fit than i have been most my life.3 -
Granted I am pretty new to counting, but for me it's the first time weight loss scientifically made sense to me. I didn't understand what a deficit was or how to create it without spending 12 hours on a treadmill. Now that I know what I am doing (or at least getting the hang of) I feel a lot more solid that what I am doing is meaningful, rather than good foods and bad foods and foods with certain points. Today I ate a macadamia nut cookie and it was amazing and I understand exactly why I could eat it and still "win" at losing weight. To me, that's freedom.8
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