Disadvantages of Keto diet
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My point has been clearly made.
In the meantime I'll keep my low refined sugar approach as it is easy and really working well for me. Before I did this, raging hunger was a major issue that prevented me from making progress.
I am so lost as to your opinion in this thread. You have previously posted that you are anti-keto because you like fruit, especially fruits that are considered high in sugar (fructose). But, you are anti-sugar.3 -
My point has been clearly made.
In the meantime I'll keep my low refined sugar approach as it is easy and really working well for me. Before I did this, raging hunger was a major issue that prevented me from making progress.
I have low added sugar in my diet, but I am higher carb. Even with 250g of carbs (half sugar; I eat 5-6 servings of fruit a day), I am rarely hungry. So I wouldn't assume those of us not doing low carb are 1. always hungry or 2. always eating junk for.3 -
My point has been clearly made.
In the meantime I'll keep my low refined sugar approach as it is easy and really working well for me. Before I did this, raging hunger was a major issue that prevented me from making progress.
I have low added sugar in my diet, but I am higher carb. Even with 250g of carbs (half sugar; I eat 5-6 servings of fruit a day), I am rarely hungry. So I wouldn't assume those of us not doing low carb are 1. always hungry or 2. always eating junk for.
We are all different and we all use food differently. I wouldn't be able to eat the way you do because I would be starving and most probably putting on weight. Whereas on a keto (LCHF) based diet I find that I'm satiated whilst losing fat around my middle. Can't be too bad if I'm losing weight / fat around the middle whilst simultaneously lowering my Trigs, increasing my HDL and just my overall feeling. Have my blood tests every 6 months.2 -
My point has been clearly made.
In the meantime I'll keep my low refined sugar approach as it is easy and really working well for me. Before I did this, raging hunger was a major issue that prevented me from making progress.
I have low added sugar in my diet, but I am higher carb. Even with 250g of carbs (half sugar; I eat 5-6 servings of fruit a day), I am rarely hungry. So I wouldn't assume those of us not doing low carb are 1. always hungry or 2. always eating junk for.
We are all different and we all use food differently. I wouldn't be able to eat the way you do because I would be starving and most probably putting on weight. Whereas on a keto (LCHF) based diet I find that I'm satiated whilst losing fat around my middle. Can't be too bad if I'm losing weight / fat around the middle whilst simultaneously lowering my Trigs, increasing my HDL and just my overall feeling. Have my blood tests every 6 months.
Not saying lchf is bad..its the insinuation that not eating that way is somehow ineffective and somehow we are all starving due to insulin. I fully support every way of eating but keto/lchf is in now way any more superior of a diet than plant based or iifym or any other (outside of personal preference). And regardless of the diet you follow, you can store fat or burn fat, even if you are only eating 2 meals or 8 meals. Why because all diets adhere to the energy balance equation.6 -
It is completely unsustainable for me. I also have cancer/kidney/liver/thyroid issues that were made worse by it... and I have hypoglycemia. No go. I have no intentions of ever trying that again for as long as I did. I have lost a lot of weight just weighing my food and eating at a deficit.. with no restrictions. I have had Chinese food, birthday cake, rice, crisps, cupcakes, a soda, fruit, bread, and cookies since I started.2
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My point has been clearly made.
In the meantime I'll keep my low refined sugar approach as it is easy and really working well for me. Before I did this, raging hunger was a major issue that prevented me from making progress.
I have low added sugar in my diet, but I am higher carb. Even with 250g of carbs (half sugar; I eat 5-6 servings of fruit a day), I am rarely hungry. So I wouldn't assume those of us not doing low carb are 1. always hungry or 2. always eating junk for.
We are all different and we all use food differently. I wouldn't be able to eat the way you do because I would be starving and most probably putting on weight. Whereas on a keto (LCHF) based diet I find that I'm satiated whilst losing fat around my middle. Can't be too bad if I'm losing weight / fat around the middle whilst simultaneously lowering my Trigs, increasing my HDL and just my overall feeling. Have my blood tests every 6 months.
Not saying lchf is bad..its the insinuation that not eating that way is somehow ineffective and somehow we are all starving due to insulin. I fully support every way of eating but keto/lchf is in now way any more superior of a diet than plant based or iifym or any other (outside of personal preference). And regardless of the diet you follow, you can store fat or burn fat, even if you are only eating 2 meals or 8 meals. Why because all diets adhere to the energy balance equation.
I never said my way was the right way. Just explained why I'm different to you and couldn't eat the way you do. Eating keto / lchf for me is very sustainable and helps me keep on track for my weight loss and has helped sort out my blood tests. I eat more veggies now than I have ever eaten and I generally feel healthier. Each to their own.
I have a friend that is vegan and doing really well but for me I couldn't do it. Wouldn't be able to sustain it.3 -
lenoresdream wrote: »
Oh goodness that's scary!Annahbananas wrote: »I've tried the Keto diet and I certainly lost weight but it never worked for me long term. I hate restricting foods to the point where i cannot have them.
And a more important issue: my kidneys are only 40% effective after the dieting on Keto . Before the dieting on Keto my kidney functions were 100% because I had an intensive physical before I went into the Police Academy. My endocrinologists are saying it was from me yo yo I got on the Keto diet. Take it for what it's worth, but the Keto diet almost destroyed my kidneys
Plus, I enjoy eating a bowl of spaghetti with parmesan cheese and still lost .6 of a pound that day
I hope your kidneys can recover
http://www.healthline.com/health-news/keto-diet-is-gaining-popularity-but-is-it-safe-121914#60 -
varies on individuals - some the time your body needs to reach ketosis some longer, some just don't.
Up to 2 weeks can be considered a norm - trial and error is your best bet, you will see it for yourself and also realise if kept is for you or not.
So if I still get headaches or other adaptation symptoms after two weeks then I should stop it right?
The adaptation can take longer than two weeks. If you eat extra salt and drink enough water, you might not have a problem adapting. I didn't.1 -
My point has been clearly made.
In the meantime I'll keep my low refined sugar approach as it is easy and really working well for me. Before I did this, raging hunger was a major issue that prevented me from making progress.
I am so lost as to your opinion in this thread. You have previously posted that you are anti-keto because you like fruit, especially fruits that are considered high in sugar (fructose). But, you are anti-sugar.
I'm anti added refined sugar. Sugar can't be completely avoided but we don't need to add more or consume it in a form that is rapidly absorbed. So while I will eat fruit I'll avoid fruit juice. The reason is I do believe fructose is probably too high of concentrations in juice and sugars in liquids are absorbed very quickly into the blood.
As people have pointed out, toxicity is often about the dosage. Eat an apple and over the next 90 minutes about 10 grams of fructose hit your liver. Drink a glass of apple juice and over the next few minutes 25 grams of fructose hit your liver. Probably more than a 10x difference in dosage over time.
Whole fruit has fiber and lots of other nutrients that justify the risks caused by fructose. Also some fruits are vital to me because the reduce the impact of sodium, for example a banana a day.
Generally I'm mostly avoiding processed foods that have added sugar. That is actually pretty easy to do in Japan, I think it would take a lot more work in the US.
The ketosis diets are much more restrictive. But I think the restrictions on carbs forces people to avoid adding sugar. So the diet benefits from that. I'm not really anti-ketosis, I just think it is difficult to achieve, hard to maintain and isn't necessary for weight loss.
In my mind I've have about 4 groups of foods for sugar:
AVOID 100% - sugar in liquids
Mostly AVOID - processed foods (I make an exception for peanut butter and chocolate in small amounts)
RARELY - deserts
OKAY - Foods with fiber and without added sugars.
I may play around with cutting fruit at some point, but currently my hunger is controlled and I'm losing fat so I don't see the need to do that right now.1 -
My point has been clearly made.
In the meantime I'll keep my low refined sugar approach as it is easy and really working well for me. Before I did this, raging hunger was a major issue that prevented me from making progress.
I have low added sugar in my diet, but I am higher carb. Even with 250g of carbs (half sugar; I eat 5-6 servings of fruit a day), I am rarely hungry. So I wouldn't assume those of us not doing low carb are 1. always hungry or 2. always eating junk for.
Not sure how you see any such assumption. I live in Japan, avoiding carbs really isn't an option. Avoiding added sugar is an option. Personally I don't think that carbs in general contributed to obesity, most people simply can't eat enough carbs to become obese. Eating carbs with lots of fats and sugar added, that is a different issue.0 -
My point has been clearly made.
In the meantime I'll keep my low refined sugar approach as it is easy and really working well for me. Before I did this, raging hunger was a major issue that prevented me from making progress.
I am so lost as to your opinion in this thread. You have previously posted that you are anti-keto because you like fruit, especially fruits that are considered high in sugar (fructose). But, you are anti-sugar.
I'm anti added refined sugar. Sugar can't be completely avoided but we don't need to add more or consume it in a form that is rapidly absorbed. So while I will eat fruit I'll avoid fruit juice. The reason is I do believe fructose is probably too high of concentrations in juice and sugars in liquids are absorbed very quickly into the blood.
As people have pointed out, toxicity is often about the dosage. Eat an apple and over the next 90 minutes about 10 grams of fructose hit your liver. Drink a glass of apple juice and over the next few minutes 25 grams of fructose hit your liver. Probably more than a 10x difference in dosage over time.
Whole fruit has fiber and lots of other nutrients that justify the risks caused by fructose. Also some fruits are vital to me because the reduce the impact of sodium, for example a banana a day.
Generally I'm mostly avoiding processed foods that have added sugar. That is actually pretty easy to do in Japan, I think it would take a lot more work in the US.
The ketosis diets are much more restrictive. But I think the restrictions on carbs forces people to avoid adding sugar. So the diet benefits from that. I'm not really anti-ketosis, I just think it is difficult to achieve, hard to maintain and isn't necessary for weight loss.
In my mind I've have about 4 groups of foods for sugar:
AVOID 100% - sugar in liquids
Mostly AVOID - processed foods (I make an exception for peanut butter and chocolate in small amounts)
RARELY - deserts
OKAY - Foods with fiber and without added sugars.
I may play around with cutting fruit at some point, but currently my hunger is controlled and I'm losing fat so I don't see the need to do that right now.
Just to point out, Alan Aragon suggest many of the diet strategies you employ. He is one of the most unbiased people and doesnt fear monger like the likes of Dr. Lustig. What i do get a laugh about is the lustig is overweight himself. You would think that being in his position, he would be more fit.5 -
My point has been clearly made.
In the meantime I'll keep my low refined sugar approach as it is easy and really working well for me. Before I did this, raging hunger was a major issue that prevented me from making progress.
I am so lost as to your opinion in this thread. You have previously posted that you are anti-keto because you like fruit, especially fruits that are considered high in sugar (fructose). But, you are anti-sugar.
I'm anti added refined sugar. Sugar can't be completely avoided but we don't need to add more or consume it in a form that is rapidly absorbed. So while I will eat fruit I'll avoid fruit juice. The reason is I do believe fructose is probably too high of concentrations in juice and sugars in liquids are absorbed very quickly into the blood.
As people have pointed out, toxicity is often about the dosage. Eat an apple and over the next 90 minutes about 10 grams of fructose hit your liver. Drink a glass of apple juice and over the next few minutes 25 grams of fructose hit your liver. Probably more than a 10x difference in dosage over time.
Whole fruit has fiber and lots of other nutrients that justify the risks caused by fructose. Also some fruits are vital to me because the reduce the impact of sodium, for example a banana a day.
Generally I'm mostly avoiding processed foods that have added sugar. That is actually pretty easy to do in Japan, I think it would take a lot more work in the US.
The ketosis diets are much more restrictive. But I think the restrictions on carbs forces people to avoid adding sugar. So the diet benefits from that. I'm not really anti-ketosis, I just think it is difficult to achieve, hard to maintain and isn't necessary for weight loss.
In my mind I've have about 4 groups of foods for sugar:
AVOID 100% - sugar in liquids
Mostly AVOID - processed foods (I make an exception for peanut butter and chocolate in small amounts)
RARELY - deserts
OKAY - Foods with fiber and without added sugars.
I may play around with cutting fruit at some point, but currently my hunger is controlled and I'm losing fat so I don't see the need to do that right now.
Just to point out, Alan Aragon suggest many of the diet strategies you employ. He is one of the most unbiased people and doesnt fear monger like the likes of Dr. Lustig. What i do get a laugh about is the lustig is overweight himself. You would think that being in his position, he would be more fit.
It may be that the blog I read is atypical, we all have our issues. As for Dr. Lustig being overweight, he may well be. Dr. Atkins was also overweight, probably to a much higher degree. Being thin doesn't seem to be a requirement for talking about diet. (Just watch some of the interviews with Dr. Atkins if you don't believe that.)
I don't think there are any claims that cutting back on sugar is a magic cure, it just gets rid of a barrier that causing a lot of people issues. It still takes effort to lose weight. In my own case I only had a few spots in may diet that were high sugar. I cut them because of calories not because of sugar. After that my hunger went down which I found confusing at first. Two years ago when I was trying to lose a lot of fat I really suffered from hunger. It is in my search for why I'm not so hungry that I ran across Dr. Lutig's presentations. I really find it hard to believe that people would consider those presentations fear mongering. I guess that just shows the addictive power of sugar. I guess I'm lucky that I don't crave sugar so much.3 -
My point has been clearly made.
In the meantime I'll keep my low refined sugar approach as it is easy and really working well for me. Before I did this, raging hunger was a major issue that prevented me from making progress.
I am so lost as to your opinion in this thread. You have previously posted that you are anti-keto because you like fruit, especially fruits that are considered high in sugar (fructose). But, you are anti-sugar.
I'm anti added refined sugar. Sugar can't be completely avoided but we don't need to add more or consume it in a form that is rapidly absorbed. So while I will eat fruit I'll avoid fruit juice. The reason is I do believe fructose is probably too high of concentrations in juice and sugars in liquids are absorbed very quickly into the blood.
As people have pointed out, toxicity is often about the dosage. Eat an apple and over the next 90 minutes about 10 grams of fructose hit your liver. Drink a glass of apple juice and over the next few minutes 25 grams of fructose hit your liver. Probably more than a 10x difference in dosage over time.
Whole fruit has fiber and lots of other nutrients that justify the risks caused by fructose. Also some fruits are vital to me because the reduce the impact of sodium, for example a banana a day.
Generally I'm mostly avoiding processed foods that have added sugar. That is actually pretty easy to do in Japan, I think it would take a lot more work in the US.
The ketosis diets are much more restrictive. But I think the restrictions on carbs forces people to avoid adding sugar. So the diet benefits from that. I'm not really anti-ketosis, I just think it is difficult to achieve, hard to maintain and isn't necessary for weight loss.
In my mind I've have about 4 groups of foods for sugar:
AVOID 100% - sugar in liquids
Mostly AVOID - processed foods (I make an exception for peanut butter and chocolate in small amounts)
RARELY - deserts
OKAY - Foods with fiber and without added sugars.
I may play around with cutting fruit at some point, but currently my hunger is controlled and I'm losing fat so I don't see the need to do that right now.
Just to point out, Alan Aragon suggest many of the diet strategies you employ. He is one of the most unbiased people and doesnt fear monger like the likes of Dr. Lustig. What i do get a laugh about is the lustig is overweight himself. You would think that being in his position, he would be more fit.
It may be that the blog I read is atypical, we all have our issues. As for Dr. Lustig being overweight, he may well be. Dr. Atkins was also overweight, probably to a much higher degree. Being thin doesn't seem to be a requirement for talking about diet. (Just watch some of the interviews with Dr. Atkins if you don't believe that.)
I don't think there are any claims that cutting back on sugar is a magic cure, it just gets rid of a barrier that causing a lot of people issues. It still takes effort to lose weight. In my own case I only had a few spots in may diet that were high sugar. I cut them because of calories not because of sugar. After that my hunger went down which I found confusing at first. Two years ago when I was trying to lose a lot of fat I really suffered from hunger. It is in my search for why I'm not so hungry that I ran across Dr. Lutig's presentations. I really find it hard to believe that people would consider those presentations fear mongering. I guess that just shows the addictive power of sugar. I guess I'm lucky that I don't crave sugar so much.
I'm sorry but the juxtaposition of these two phrases made me smile.
he even debunked himself
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ6LhzCrPpk
3 -
My point has been clearly made.
In the meantime I'll keep my low refined sugar approach as it is easy and really working well for me. Before I did this, raging hunger was a major issue that prevented me from making progress.
I am so lost as to your opinion in this thread. You have previously posted that you are anti-keto because you like fruit, especially fruits that are considered high in sugar (fructose). But, you are anti-sugar.
I'm anti added refined sugar. Sugar can't be completely avoided but we don't need to add more or consume it in a form that is rapidly absorbed. So while I will eat fruit I'll avoid fruit juice. The reason is I do believe fructose is probably too high of concentrations in juice and sugars in liquids are absorbed very quickly into the blood.
As people have pointed out, toxicity is often about the dosage. Eat an apple and over the next 90 minutes about 10 grams of fructose hit your liver. Drink a glass of apple juice and over the next few minutes 25 grams of fructose hit your liver. Probably more than a 10x difference in dosage over time.
Whole fruit has fiber and lots of other nutrients that justify the risks caused by fructose. Also some fruits are vital to me because the reduce the impact of sodium, for example a banana a day.
Generally I'm mostly avoiding processed foods that have added sugar. That is actually pretty easy to do in Japan, I think it would take a lot more work in the US.
The ketosis diets are much more restrictive. But I think the restrictions on carbs forces people to avoid adding sugar. So the diet benefits from that. I'm not really anti-ketosis, I just think it is difficult to achieve, hard to maintain and isn't necessary for weight loss.
In my mind I've have about 4 groups of foods for sugar:
AVOID 100% - sugar in liquids
Mostly AVOID - processed foods (I make an exception for peanut butter and chocolate in small amounts)
RARELY - deserts
OKAY - Foods with fiber and without added sugars.
I may play around with cutting fruit at some point, but currently my hunger is controlled and I'm losing fat so I don't see the need to do that right now.
Just to point out, Alan Aragon suggest many of the diet strategies you employ. He is one of the most unbiased people and doesnt fear monger like the likes of Dr. Lustig. What i do get a laugh about is the lustig is overweight himself. You would think that being in his position, he would be more fit.
It may be that the blog I read is atypical, we all have our issues. As for Dr. Lustig being overweight, he may well be. Dr. Atkins was also overweight, probably to a much higher degree. Being thin doesn't seem to be a requirement for talking about diet. (Just watch some of the interviews with Dr. Atkins if you don't believe that.)
I don't think there are any claims that cutting back on sugar is a magic cure, it just gets rid of a barrier that causing a lot of people issues. It still takes effort to lose weight. In my own case I only had a few spots in may diet that were high sugar. I cut them because of calories not because of sugar. After that my hunger went down which I found confusing at first. Two years ago when I was trying to lose a lot of fat I really suffered from hunger. It is in my search for why I'm not so hungry that I ran across Dr. Lutig's presentations. I really find it hard to believe that people would consider those presentations fear mongering. I guess that just shows the addictive power of sugar. I guess I'm lucky that I don't crave sugar so much.
I'm sorry but the juxtaposition of these two phrases made me smile.
he even debunked himselfhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ6LhzCrPpk
That isn't debunking. That is just an attack by someone hoping to fool people. The same kind of attacks can be done to anyone.
If you listen to the long talks he explains that position. While you get fructose from eating fruit, it is at a much lower level spread out more in time and the whole fruits typically come with enough benefits to balance out the negative effects of fructose.0 -
My point has been clearly made.
In the meantime I'll keep my low refined sugar approach as it is easy and really working well for me. Before I did this, raging hunger was a major issue that prevented me from making progress.
I am so lost as to your opinion in this thread. You have previously posted that you are anti-keto because you like fruit, especially fruits that are considered high in sugar (fructose). But, you are anti-sugar.
I'm anti added refined sugar. Sugar can't be completely avoided but we don't need to add more or consume it in a form that is rapidly absorbed. So while I will eat fruit I'll avoid fruit juice. The reason is I do believe fructose is probably too high of concentrations in juice and sugars in liquids are absorbed very quickly into the blood.
As people have pointed out, toxicity is often about the dosage. Eat an apple and over the next 90 minutes about 10 grams of fructose hit your liver. Drink a glass of apple juice and over the next few minutes 25 grams of fructose hit your liver. Probably more than a 10x difference in dosage over time.
Whole fruit has fiber and lots of other nutrients that justify the risks caused by fructose. Also some fruits are vital to me because the reduce the impact of sodium, for example a banana a day.
Generally I'm mostly avoiding processed foods that have added sugar. That is actually pretty easy to do in Japan, I think it would take a lot more work in the US.
The ketosis diets are much more restrictive. But I think the restrictions on carbs forces people to avoid adding sugar. So the diet benefits from that. I'm not really anti-ketosis, I just think it is difficult to achieve, hard to maintain and isn't necessary for weight loss.
In my mind I've have about 4 groups of foods for sugar:
AVOID 100% - sugar in liquids
Mostly AVOID - processed foods (I make an exception for peanut butter and chocolate in small amounts)
RARELY - deserts
OKAY - Foods with fiber and without added sugars.
I may play around with cutting fruit at some point, but currently my hunger is controlled and I'm losing fat so I don't see the need to do that right now.
Just to point out, Alan Aragon suggest many of the diet strategies you employ. He is one of the most unbiased people and doesnt fear monger like the likes of Dr. Lustig. What i do get a laugh about is the lustig is overweight himself. You would think that being in his position, he would be more fit.
It may be that the blog I read is atypical, we all have our issues. As for Dr. Lustig being overweight, he may well be. Dr. Atkins was also overweight, probably to a much higher degree. Being thin doesn't seem to be a requirement for talking about diet. (Just watch some of the interviews with Dr. Atkins if you don't believe that.)
I don't think there are any claims that cutting back on sugar is a magic cure, it just gets rid of a barrier that causing a lot of people issues. It still takes effort to lose weight. In my own case I only had a few spots in may diet that were high sugar. I cut them because of calories not because of sugar. After that my hunger went down which I found confusing at first. Two years ago when I was trying to lose a lot of fat I really suffered from hunger. It is in my search for why I'm not so hungry that I ran across Dr. Lutig's presentations. I really find it hard to believe that people would consider those presentations fear mongering. I guess that just shows the addictive power of sugar. I guess I'm lucky that I don't crave sugar so much.
I'm sorry but the juxtaposition of these two phrases made me smile.
he even debunked himselfhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ6LhzCrPpk
That isn't debunking. That is just an attack by someone hoping to fool people. The same kind of attacks can be done to anyone.
If you listen to the long talks he explains that position. While you get fructose from eating fruit, it is at a much lower level spread out more in time and the whole fruits typically come with enough benefits to balance out the negative effects of fructose.
I'm glad you're watching, and hopefully reading other things to round out your knowledge.
You may find it interesting to look at the sugar against obesity chart posted towards the bottom of this blog
"sugar intake has been declining since 1999, and is now back to where it was in the late 1980s. Yet our waistlines keep expanding.
Refined carbohydrate and sugar are certainly part of the cause of the obesity epidemic, but these data are consistent with a large body of research suggesting that there's more to the story. Obesity is caused by a number of interacting diet and lifestyle factors, most of which can be traced back to major socioeconomic changes in this country over the last century. These have affected the way we interact with food, the composition of our food, and other aspects of our lifestyle that cause genetically susceptible people to gain fat."
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/carbohydrate-sugar-and-obesity-in.html
I recognise this is off topic and there are countless threads on sugar etc so this is my last post here on this topic
4 -
My point has been clearly made.
In the meantime I'll keep my low refined sugar approach as it is easy and really working well for me. Before I did this, raging hunger was a major issue that prevented me from making progress.
I am so lost as to your opinion in this thread. You have previously posted that you are anti-keto because you like fruit, especially fruits that are considered high in sugar (fructose). But, you are anti-sugar.
I'm anti added refined sugar. Sugar can't be completely avoided but we don't need to add more or consume it in a form that is rapidly absorbed. So while I will eat fruit I'll avoid fruit juice. The reason is I do believe fructose is probably too high of concentrations in juice and sugars in liquids are absorbed very quickly into the blood.
As people have pointed out, toxicity is often about the dosage. Eat an apple and over the next 90 minutes about 10 grams of fructose hit your liver. Drink a glass of apple juice and over the next few minutes 25 grams of fructose hit your liver. Probably more than a 10x difference in dosage over time.
Whole fruit has fiber and lots of other nutrients that justify the risks caused by fructose. Also some fruits are vital to me because the reduce the impact of sodium, for example a banana a day.
Generally I'm mostly avoiding processed foods that have added sugar. That is actually pretty easy to do in Japan, I think it would take a lot more work in the US.
The ketosis diets are much more restrictive. But I think the restrictions on carbs forces people to avoid adding sugar. So the diet benefits from that. I'm not really anti-ketosis, I just think it is difficult to achieve, hard to maintain and isn't necessary for weight loss.
In my mind I've have about 4 groups of foods for sugar:
AVOID 100% - sugar in liquids
Mostly AVOID - processed foods (I make an exception for peanut butter and chocolate in small amounts)
RARELY - deserts
OKAY - Foods with fiber and without added sugars.
I may play around with cutting fruit at some point, but currently my hunger is controlled and I'm losing fat so I don't see the need to do that right now.
Just to point out, Alan Aragon suggest many of the diet strategies you employ. He is one of the most unbiased people and doesnt fear monger like the likes of Dr. Lustig. What i do get a laugh about is the lustig is overweight himself. You would think that being in his position, he would be more fit.
It may be that the blog I read is atypical, we all have our issues. As for Dr. Lustig being overweight, he may well be. Dr. Atkins was also overweight, probably to a much higher degree. Being thin doesn't seem to be a requirement for talking about diet. (Just watch some of the interviews with Dr. Atkins if you don't believe that.)
I don't think there are any claims that cutting back on sugar is a magic cure, it just gets rid of a barrier that causing a lot of people issues. It still takes effort to lose weight. In my own case I only had a few spots in may diet that were high sugar. I cut them because of calories not because of sugar. After that my hunger went down which I found confusing at first. Two years ago when I was trying to lose a lot of fat I really suffered from hunger. It is in my search for why I'm not so hungry that I ran across Dr. Lutig's presentations. I really find it hard to believe that people would consider those presentations fear mongering. I guess that just shows the addictive power of sugar. I guess I'm lucky that I don't crave sugar so much.
I'm sorry but the juxtaposition of these two phrases made me smile.
he even debunked himselfhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ6LhzCrPpk
That isn't debunking. That is just an attack by someone hoping to fool people. The same kind of attacks can be done to anyone.
If you listen to the long talks he explains that position. While you get fructose from eating fruit, it is at a much lower level spread out more in time and the whole fruits typically come with enough benefits to balance out the negative effects of fructose.
I'm glad you're watching, and hopefully reading other things to round out your knowledge.
You may find it interesting to look at the sugar against obesity chart posted towards the bottom of this blog
"sugar intake has been declining since 1999, and is now back to where it was in the late 1980s. Yet our waistlines keep expanding.
Refined carbohydrate and sugar are certainly part of the cause of the obesity epidemic, but these data are consistent with a large body of research suggesting that there's more to the story. Obesity is caused by a number of interacting diet and lifestyle factors, most of which can be traced back to major socioeconomic changes in this country over the last century. These have affected the way we interact with food, the composition of our food, and other aspects of our lifestyle that cause genetically susceptible people to gain fat."
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/carbohydrate-sugar-and-obesity-in.html
I recognise this is off topic and there are countless threads on sugar etc so this is my last post here on this topic
Interesting ... worth looking into. There most certainly is more to the story, I don't think there have been any claims otherwise. Just the fact that ketosis diets can work very well as well as high carb diets shows there is a lot more to the story.
That probably has been mentioned too, but all we have to work with is carbs, fats and protein. Any diet that pretty much removes a food group takes a lot more effort to follow and manage. In my view the effort required to follow a vegan diet is about the same as a ketosis diet. Probably the only group of people that put more effort into difficult to follow diets are body builders and some of those use complex permutations of ketosis or vegan diets. There are tradeoffs though, vegans get the potato without butter but keto-ians get the butter without the potato. What I really want is the potato with butter and salt.
1 -
It's almost like people are eating too much damned food, regardless of macro source, or something. Crazy, I know.13
-
My point has been clearly made.
In the meantime I'll keep my low refined sugar approach as it is easy and really working well for me. Before I did this, raging hunger was a major issue that prevented me from making progress.
I am so lost as to your opinion in this thread. You have previously posted that you are anti-keto because you like fruit, especially fruits that are considered high in sugar (fructose). But, you are anti-sugar.
I'm anti added refined sugar. Sugar can't be completely avoided but we don't need to add more or consume it in a form that is rapidly absorbed. So while I will eat fruit I'll avoid fruit juice. The reason is I do believe fructose is probably too high of concentrations in juice and sugars in liquids are absorbed very quickly into the blood.
As people have pointed out, toxicity is often about the dosage. Eat an apple and over the next 90 minutes about 10 grams of fructose hit your liver. Drink a glass of apple juice and over the next few minutes 25 grams of fructose hit your liver. Probably more than a 10x difference in dosage over time.
Whole fruit has fiber and lots of other nutrients that justify the risks caused by fructose. Also some fruits are vital to me because the reduce the impact of sodium, for example a banana a day.
Generally I'm mostly avoiding processed foods that have added sugar. That is actually pretty easy to do in Japan, I think it would take a lot more work in the US.
The ketosis diets are much more restrictive. But I think the restrictions on carbs forces people to avoid adding sugar. So the diet benefits from that. I'm not really anti-ketosis, I just think it is difficult to achieve, hard to maintain and isn't necessary for weight loss.
In my mind I've have about 4 groups of foods for sugar:
AVOID 100% - sugar in liquids
Mostly AVOID - processed foods (I make an exception for peanut butter and chocolate in small amounts)
RARELY - deserts
OKAY - Foods with fiber and without added sugars.
I may play around with cutting fruit at some point, but currently my hunger is controlled and I'm losing fat so I don't see the need to do that right now.
Just to point out, Alan Aragon suggest many of the diet strategies you employ. He is one of the most unbiased people and doesnt fear monger like the likes of Dr. Lustig. What i do get a laugh about is the lustig is overweight himself. You would think that being in his position, he would be more fit.
It may be that the blog I read is atypical, we all have our issues. As for Dr. Lustig being overweight, he may well be. Dr. Atkins was also overweight, probably to a much higher degree. Being thin doesn't seem to be a requirement for talking about diet. (Just watch some of the interviews with Dr. Atkins if you don't believe that.)
I don't think there are any claims that cutting back on sugar is a magic cure, it just gets rid of a barrier that causing a lot of people issues. It still takes effort to lose weight. In my own case I only had a few spots in may diet that were high sugar. I cut them because of calories not because of sugar. After that my hunger went down which I found confusing at first. Two years ago when I was trying to lose a lot of fat I really suffered from hunger. It is in my search for why I'm not so hungry that I ran across Dr. Lutig's presentations. I really find it hard to believe that people would consider those presentations fear mongering. I guess that just shows the addictive power of sugar. I guess I'm lucky that I don't crave sugar so much.
I'm sorry but the juxtaposition of these two phrases made me smile.
he even debunked himselfhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ6LhzCrPpk
That isn't debunking. That is just an attack by someone hoping to fool people. The same kind of attacks can be done to anyone.
If you listen to the long talks he explains that position. While you get fructose from eating fruit, it is at a much lower level spread out more in time and the whole fruits typically come with enough benefits to balance out the negative effects of fructose.
Cantaloupe melons, clementines, pineapple, peaches, apricots. Half their calories come from sucrose aka table sugar.
Apples, grapes, pears, watermelon, blueberries. High in pure fructose, between 33% and 50% of total calories.
And they all have some of the respective other sugar in it too, and since sucrose is just glucose + fructose that means that apples and grapes have for the same calories more total fructose in it than HFCS.3 -
My point has been clearly made.
In the meantime I'll keep my low refined sugar approach as it is easy and really working well for me. Before I did this, raging hunger was a major issue that prevented me from making progress.
I am so lost as to your opinion in this thread. You have previously posted that you are anti-keto because you like fruit, especially fruits that are considered high in sugar (fructose). But, you are anti-sugar.
I'm anti added refined sugar. Sugar can't be completely avoided but we don't need to add more or consume it in a form that is rapidly absorbed. So while I will eat fruit I'll avoid fruit juice. The reason is I do believe fructose is probably too high of concentrations in juice and sugars in liquids are absorbed very quickly into the blood.
As people have pointed out, toxicity is often about the dosage. Eat an apple and over the next 90 minutes about 10 grams of fructose hit your liver. Drink a glass of apple juice and over the next few minutes 25 grams of fructose hit your liver. Probably more than a 10x difference in dosage over time.
Whole fruit has fiber and lots of other nutrients that justify the risks caused by fructose. Also some fruits are vital to me because the reduce the impact of sodium, for example a banana a day.
Generally I'm mostly avoiding processed foods that have added sugar. That is actually pretty easy to do in Japan, I think it would take a lot more work in the US.
The ketosis diets are much more restrictive. But I think the restrictions on carbs forces people to avoid adding sugar. So the diet benefits from that. I'm not really anti-ketosis, I just think it is difficult to achieve, hard to maintain and isn't necessary for weight loss.
In my mind I've have about 4 groups of foods for sugar:
AVOID 100% - sugar in liquids
Mostly AVOID - processed foods (I make an exception for peanut butter and chocolate in small amounts)
RARELY - deserts
OKAY - Foods with fiber and without added sugars.
I may play around with cutting fruit at some point, but currently my hunger is controlled and I'm losing fat so I don't see the need to do that right now.
Just to point out, Alan Aragon suggest many of the diet strategies you employ. He is one of the most unbiased people and doesnt fear monger like the likes of Dr. Lustig. What i do get a laugh about is the lustig is overweight himself. You would think that being in his position, he would be more fit.
It may be that the blog I read is atypical, we all have our issues. As for Dr. Lustig being overweight, he may well be. Dr. Atkins was also overweight, probably to a much higher degree. Being thin doesn't seem to be a requirement for talking about diet. (Just watch some of the interviews with Dr. Atkins if you don't believe that.)
I don't think there are any claims that cutting back on sugar is a magic cure, it just gets rid of a barrier that causing a lot of people issues. It still takes effort to lose weight. In my own case I only had a few spots in may diet that were high sugar. I cut them because of calories not because of sugar. After that my hunger went down which I found confusing at first. Two years ago when I was trying to lose a lot of fat I really suffered from hunger. It is in my search for why I'm not so hungry that I ran across Dr. Lutig's presentations. I really find it hard to believe that people would consider those presentations fear mongering. I guess that just shows the addictive power of sugar. I guess I'm lucky that I don't crave sugar so much.
I'm sorry but the juxtaposition of these two phrases made me smile.
he even debunked himselfhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QQ6LhzCrPpk
That isn't debunking. That is just an attack by someone hoping to fool people. The same kind of attacks can be done to anyone.
If you listen to the long talks he explains that position. While you get fructose from eating fruit, it is at a much lower level spread out more in time and the whole fruits typically come with enough benefits to balance out the negative effects of fructose.
Also what do you say about the video I posted where he claims table sugar is somehow a carb and a fat and that there's no natural food that has carbs and fat? That's objectively a falsehood. The man doesn't know wtf he's talking about.5 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »It's almost like people are eating too much damned food, regardless of macro source, or something. Crazy, I know.
It truly is crazy..3
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