Herbalife
Replies
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Lesely2603 wrote: »I had a boss who used Herbal Life for about nine months, he didn't lose a pound.
He wasn't following it at all then. I do not support herbalife at all however it leaves you in a pretty ridiculous deficit so he probably was still stuffing his face.
To the OP: Eh if it works for you. Some people don't have self control and need something like this or nutrisystem. Yea it is a scam however like I said some people do not have self control where portion control really wouldn't apply to them. Yea blah blah you need to be disciplined coming from the majority of people who were fairly undisciplined on their diet journeys leading them to the "turning" point to lose weight. Ironic everyone makes it seem easy however most people do have a hard time finding and sticking to a diet no matter what diet they do choose.
I do believe something like this is a complete ripoff. People telling you just use a protein shake really don't understand what Herbalife is being sold as which is a MEAL replacement powder. So no on the protein shake however you can find something healthier at probably lower the cost of this plan. A whole foods meal replacement powder that uses actual foods which will taste good. I haven't tried herbalife im willing to be my left... knee? on it that they taste pretty horrible. At the end of the day I highly reccomend a whole foods diet however if lifestyle and time doesn't allow it something like a meal replacement/protein powder do come in handy.1 -
Not that I support herbalife,but the notion that 3 anomalies qualifies as causation is a bit disturbing; especially considering the links between herbalife and liver issues happened in 2010. A time period in which a ton of protein shakes were linked to high levels of heavy metals. And this doesn't even take into consideration how often the formula has been changed (this goes for all protein shakes).
Do I think it's worth the money.. no, but I feel the same way about all MLM and over priced protein shakes. Are they quality.. I can't say because I haven't seen any independent research.
But if it's a product that helps people get on track and get fit, and they don't mind spending the money, then it's fine.
Herbalife sells tons of products. None of them have been clinically shown to be effective. My roommate freshman year of college bought most of them. I had zero counterspace because there were probably around 30 bottles of who knows what cluttering everything up. I can't even imagine the number of random chemicals and fillers her poor liver had to sift through (whether healthy or not, it's a lot of work for no reason). She never lost weight. Gained even (yay freshman 15!).
She did, however, need to borrow money all the time from her parents because she never "had any money".
How many products out there, do you know are independently clinically tested and results are publicly released? Little to none? At best, we hope that this companies don't use fillers and what is on the back of the bottle is actually what is in the bottle. The only excepts are ones certified by outside organizations, which is really difficult to find.
This is very true. But again, if a product truly worked well, there would not be as many obese people as there are. Plenty of overweight people would throw money at a product that works. And Herbalife has been around for a while (I was a freshman 16 years ago now, and it wasn't a new product then). There have been millions of people who have taken it. I don't recall seeing millions of success stories.
And nevermind that EVERY product sold comes with the caveat of "when used in combination with a healthy diet and lifestyle". A healthy diet and lifestyle works all on it's own. No products needed.
Don't get me wrong, I would never buy a supplement from an MLM (mainly because they are significantly overpriced) but people make assertions about the quality of supplements based on it being an MLM. It's possible it could be a high quality protein supplement. It's probable it's not any better than any other protein supplement. Comparing a few that people love (trutein, pescience, ON, dymatize, quest), which would be the best?
Now, I will say, when it comes to shakeology, I don't it for a few reason; 1. doesn't use whey or casein, 2. taste like chalk, and 3. cost is ridiculous.0 -
Not that I support herbalife,but the notion that 3 anomalies qualifies as causation is a bit disturbing; especially considering the links between herbalife and liver issues happened in 2010. A time period in which a ton of protein shakes were linked to high levels of heavy metals. And this doesn't even take into consideration how often the formula has been changed (this goes for all protein shakes).
Do I think it's worth the money.. no, but I feel the same way about all MLM and over priced protein shakes. Are they quality.. I can't say because I haven't seen any independent research.
But if it's a product that helps people get on track and get fit, and they don't mind spending the money, then it's fine.Not that I support herbalife,but the notion that 3 anomalies qualifies as causation is a bit disturbing; especially considering the links between herbalife and liver issues happened in 2010. A time period in which a ton of protein shakes were linked to high levels of heavy metals. And this doesn't even take into consideration how often the formula has been changed (this goes for all protein shakes).
Do I think it's worth the money.. no, but I feel the same way about all MLM and over priced protein shakes. Are they quality.. I can't say because I haven't seen any independent research.
But if it's a product that helps people get on track and get fit, and they don't mind spending the money, then it's fine.
I was thinking the same thing, I haven't seen any evidence other than that one study of 3 people (and I think only 2 of them had used Herbalife products) of liver issues being linked to Herbalife. Still not my thing, but if it helps them and they want to spend the money, that's their business.
But, by the same token......
The OP did ask for opinions in a public forum.
In reality, how often do products such as this help people to create sustainable habits that help them manage their weight on a long term basis?
Probably the same success rate as all other programs, which includes calorie counting, carb counting, etc...
Luckily counting calories does not cost extra money or include putting unknown substances/ingredients into your body.
Does Trutein release all the information on their supplement?
It has an ingredient list. As does the Herbalife shake. The same cannot be said for the other 30 pills my roommate had.
I really don't understand your point here.
I've made capsules at a compounding pharmacy. I understand that every pill make had some kind of filler. EVERY ONE. But the more you take, the more things you are putting into your body. All individually are considered safe to use by the FDA. Doesn't mean you should ever put that much into your body at once when you start taking fistfuls of pills.
The same can be said for people who take tons of vitamins.0 -
Alluminati wrote: »Not that I support herbalife,but the notion that 3 anomalies qualifies as causation is a bit disturbing; especially considering the links between herbalife and liver issues happened in 2010. A time period in which a ton of protein shakes were linked to high levels of heavy metals. And this doesn't even take into consideration how often the formula has been changed (this goes for all protein shakes).
Do I think it's worth the money.. no, but I feel the same way about all MLM and over priced protein shakes. Are they quality.. I can't say because I haven't seen any independent research.
But if it's a product that helps people get on track and get fit, and they don't mind spending the money, then it's fine.
I was thinking the same thing, I haven't seen any evidence other than that one study of 3 people (and I think only 2 of them had used Herbalife products) of liver issues being linked to Herbalife. Still not my thing, but if it helps them and they want to spend the money, that's their business.
No one is going up to happy Herbalife users and giving unsolicited opinions here. They are responding to an OP that is specifically asking about it so obviously it's not private business.
How did you get "no one is allowed to share an opinion about not liking Herbalife" out of "Herbalife isn't my thing, but I think if someone finds it helpful to them and they want to spend their money that way, it's their business"?1 -
My older brother got sucked into that. he sold it and used it. He did lose weight but as pointed out you can lose weight by simply eating whole foods and tracking your calories with the MFP tools. Id rather eat the whole foods and be satiated than drink liquids to meet goals...just my .021
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Not that I support herbalife,but the notion that 3 anomalies qualifies as causation is a bit disturbing; especially considering the links between herbalife and liver issues happened in 2010. A time period in which a ton of protein shakes were linked to high levels of heavy metals. And this doesn't even take into consideration how often the formula has been changed (this goes for all protein shakes).
Do I think it's worth the money.. no, but I feel the same way about all MLM and over priced protein shakes. Are they quality.. I can't say because I haven't seen any independent research.
But if it's a product that helps people get on track and get fit, and they don't mind spending the money, then it's fine.Not that I support herbalife,but the notion that 3 anomalies qualifies as causation is a bit disturbing; especially considering the links between herbalife and liver issues happened in 2010. A time period in which a ton of protein shakes were linked to high levels of heavy metals. And this doesn't even take into consideration how often the formula has been changed (this goes for all protein shakes).
Do I think it's worth the money.. no, but I feel the same way about all MLM and over priced protein shakes. Are they quality.. I can't say because I haven't seen any independent research.
But if it's a product that helps people get on track and get fit, and they don't mind spending the money, then it's fine.
I was thinking the same thing, I haven't seen any evidence other than that one study of 3 people (and I think only 2 of them had used Herbalife products) of liver issues being linked to Herbalife. Still not my thing, but if it helps them and they want to spend the money, that's their business.
But, by the same token......
The OP did ask for opinions in a public forum.
In reality, how often do products such as this help people to create sustainable habits that help them manage their weight on a long term basis?
Probably the same success rate as all other programs, which includes calorie counting, carb counting, etc...
Luckily counting calories does not cost extra money or include putting unknown substances/ingredients into your body.
Does Trutein release all the information on their supplement?
It has an ingredient list. As does the Herbalife shake. The same cannot be said for the other 30 pills my roommate had.
I really don't understand your point here.
I've made capsules at a compounding pharmacy. I understand that every pill make had some kind of filler. EVERY ONE. But the more you take, the more things you are putting into your body. All individually are considered safe to use by the FDA. Doesn't mean you should ever put that much into your body at once when you start taking fistfuls of pills.
The same can be said for people who take tons of vitamins.
The herbalife products I was looking through all had labels. Maybe they didn't in the past?
The point is, how are you sure that Trutein is higher quality then Herbalife or Shakeology? How are you, or others, making the assessment?0 -
Alluminati wrote: »Not that I support herbalife,but the notion that 3 anomalies qualifies as causation is a bit disturbing; especially considering the links between herbalife and liver issues happened in 2010. A time period in which a ton of protein shakes were linked to high levels of heavy metals. And this doesn't even take into consideration how often the formula has been changed (this goes for all protein shakes).
Do I think it's worth the money.. no, but I feel the same way about all MLM and over priced protein shakes. Are they quality.. I can't say because I haven't seen any independent research.
But if it's a product that helps people get on track and get fit, and they don't mind spending the money, then it's fine.
I was thinking the same thing, I haven't seen any evidence other than that one study of 3 people (and I think only 2 of them had used Herbalife products) of liver issues being linked to Herbalife. Still not my thing, but if it helps them and they want to spend the money, that's their business.
No one is going up to happy Herbalife users and giving unsolicited opinions here. They are responding to an OP that is specifically asking about it so obviously it's not private business.
How did you get "no one is allowed to share an opinion about not liking Herbalife" out of "Herbalife isn't my thing, but I think if someone finds it helpful to them and they want to spend their money that way, it's their business"?
Because you and another mod are defending it (for some odd reason).3 -
unsafe, overpriced MLM crap. Don't buy things from MLMs. It's always a ripoff and a letdown.1
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Never in a million years did I think I would see MFP change its stance on MLM products.9
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Not that I support herbalife,but the notion that 3 anomalies qualifies as causation is a bit disturbing; especially considering the links between herbalife and liver issues happened in 2010. A time period in which a ton of protein shakes were linked to high levels of heavy metals. And this doesn't even take into consideration how often the formula has been changed (this goes for all protein shakes).
Do I think it's worth the money.. no, but I feel the same way about all MLM and over priced protein shakes. Are they quality.. I can't say because I haven't seen any independent research.
But if it's a product that helps people get on track and get fit, and they don't mind spending the money, then it's fine.Not that I support herbalife,but the notion that 3 anomalies qualifies as causation is a bit disturbing; especially considering the links between herbalife and liver issues happened in 2010. A time period in which a ton of protein shakes were linked to high levels of heavy metals. And this doesn't even take into consideration how often the formula has been changed (this goes for all protein shakes).
Do I think it's worth the money.. no, but I feel the same way about all MLM and over priced protein shakes. Are they quality.. I can't say because I haven't seen any independent research.
But if it's a product that helps people get on track and get fit, and they don't mind spending the money, then it's fine.
I was thinking the same thing, I haven't seen any evidence other than that one study of 3 people (and I think only 2 of them had used Herbalife products) of liver issues being linked to Herbalife. Still not my thing, but if it helps them and they want to spend the money, that's their business.
But, by the same token......
The OP did ask for opinions in a public forum.
In reality, how often do products such as this help people to create sustainable habits that help them manage their weight on a long term basis?
Probably the same success rate as all other programs, which includes calorie counting, carb counting, etc...
Luckily counting calories does not cost extra money or include putting unknown substances/ingredients into your body.
Does Trutein release all the information on their supplement?
It has an ingredient list. As does the Herbalife shake. The same cannot be said for the other 30 pills my roommate had.
I really don't understand your point here.
I've made capsules at a compounding pharmacy. I understand that every pill make had some kind of filler. EVERY ONE. But the more you take, the more things you are putting into your body. All individually are considered safe to use by the FDA. Doesn't mean you should ever put that much into your body at once when you start taking fistfuls of pills.
The same can be said for people who take tons of vitamins.
The herbalife products I was looking through all had labels. Maybe they didn't in the past?
The point is, how are you sure that Trutein is higher quality then Herbalife or Shakeology? How are you, or others, making the assessment?
I'm not. It's cheaper. It also in no way affects my ability to lose weight. Well not any more than chicken breast. Or a dinner roll.
Maybe slightly more than the 512 pecan porter shake I'm having tonight...0 -
On July 15th of this year Herbalife was fined $200 million by the Federal Trade Commission for unsavory marketing practices. If the argument is that Herbalife could be as good as any protein powder and work just as good as counting calories, I would simply choose to give my money to a company not getting fined for blurring the lines between multi level marketing and a pyramid scheme.
Since I'm cheap, I'm taking it a step further and going with the good old option of diet and exercise.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/15/herbalife-agrees-to-pay-200-million-in-settlement-over-marketing-practices/2 -
I used HerbaLife back in the '80's. It worked if I used it faithfully, but I was always starving. Plus, it cost a ton of money. Now I work with a personal trainer, and that costs a ton of money too, but I've lost 50 lbs over 2 years. Also I have to eat a lot less - just enough that I'm not full. They say weight loss is 20% exercise and 80% whatever makes up your diet. It stinks, but my clothes are no longer uncomfortable. Good luck, dearie!1
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diannethegeek wrote: »Never in a million years did I think I would see MFP change its stance on MLM products.
So when did @kgeyser and myself become the voice/stance of MFP? Also, you should probably read my post again and read what I actually wrote. I don't support, nor would I ever buy a supplement from an MLM (I will note that I lost 50 lbs by using BeachBody workouts). But I do know people personally, who have lost the weight and kept it off by using things like advocare and shakeology. I would never use that approach, but I understand that different things work for others. And honestly, if someone got fit from it, why is is such a big deal.
What I am arguing is how people make their assessment? How is overpaying for a protein shake like this any different than people buying Trutein, PEScience or others vs buying body fortress?0 -
Not that I support herbalife,but the notion that 3 anomalies qualifies as causation is a bit disturbing; especially considering the links between herbalife and liver issues happened in 2010. A time period in which a ton of protein shakes were linked to high levels of heavy metals. And this doesn't even take into consideration how often the formula has been changed (this goes for all protein shakes).
Do I think it's worth the money.. no, but I feel the same way about all MLM and over priced protein shakes. Are they quality.. I can't say because I haven't seen any independent research.
But if it's a product that helps people get on track and get fit, and they don't mind spending the money, then it's fine.Not that I support herbalife,but the notion that 3 anomalies qualifies as causation is a bit disturbing; especially considering the links between herbalife and liver issues happened in 2010. A time period in which a ton of protein shakes were linked to high levels of heavy metals. And this doesn't even take into consideration how often the formula has been changed (this goes for all protein shakes).
Do I think it's worth the money.. no, but I feel the same way about all MLM and over priced protein shakes. Are they quality.. I can't say because I haven't seen any independent research.
But if it's a product that helps people get on track and get fit, and they don't mind spending the money, then it's fine.
I was thinking the same thing, I haven't seen any evidence other than that one study of 3 people (and I think only 2 of them had used Herbalife products) of liver issues being linked to Herbalife. Still not my thing, but if it helps them and they want to spend the money, that's their business.
But, by the same token......
The OP did ask for opinions in a public forum.
In reality, how often do products such as this help people to create sustainable habits that help them manage their weight on a long term basis?
Probably the same success rate as all other programs, which includes calorie counting, carb counting, etc...
I doubt that, especially after knowing a lot of people who successfully lose weight eating real food and keeping it off. There are countless stories of the same type here and at other message boards of people eating real food and successfully managing their weight.
Let's face it herbalife is a quick fix for the majority of people who use it.
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My older brother got sucked into that. he sold it and used it. He did lose weight but as pointed out you can lose weight by simply eating whole foods and tracking your calories with the MFP tools. Id rather eat the whole foods and be satiated than drink liquids to meet goals...just my .02
No need to eat only ;whole foods' to lose weight.
Yep.queenliz99 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »
I've lost 90lbs without Herbascam.angelspiking wrote: »JanetYellen wrote: »Don't get conned.
Instead, go to walmart and buy a protein powder and a multivitamin.
In life, people will try to scam you. Don't be a victim.
Herbalist is not a scam. I've lost 2.5 stone and am healthier now than before, cired my pre diabetes too and helpedal my pcos.. shop bought proteins and vits etc are only 30-50% pure whereas herbalist is 99.7% pure.
What do I win?
A healthy liver?
And more money!
Score!
For more crickets, happy beardies!!
I tried breeding crickets a while back.. it's so hard to keep track of those pinheads. Now I just stick to breeding mealies and supers and buy the crickets.
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Alluminati wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »Not that I support herbalife,but the notion that 3 anomalies qualifies as causation is a bit disturbing; especially considering the links between herbalife and liver issues happened in 2010. A time period in which a ton of protein shakes were linked to high levels of heavy metals. And this doesn't even take into consideration how often the formula has been changed (this goes for all protein shakes).
Do I think it's worth the money.. no, but I feel the same way about all MLM and over priced protein shakes. Are they quality.. I can't say because I haven't seen any independent research.
But if it's a product that helps people get on track and get fit, and they don't mind spending the money, then it's fine.
I was thinking the same thing, I haven't seen any evidence other than that one study of 3 people (and I think only 2 of them had used Herbalife products) of liver issues being linked to Herbalife. Still not my thing, but if it helps them and they want to spend the money, that's their business.
No one is going up to happy Herbalife users and giving unsolicited opinions here. They are responding to an OP that is specifically asking about it so obviously it's not private business.
How did you get "no one is allowed to share an opinion about not liking Herbalife" out of "Herbalife isn't my thing, but I think if someone finds it helpful to them and they want to spend their money that way, it's their business"?
Because you and another mod are defending it (for some odd reason).
Pointing out that the liver damage claims being made are not supported by science is defending it?
Saying we wouldn't use it personally, but we also aren't going to judge someone else if they've decided it is beneficial for them and want to spend their own money on it is defending it? I don't know about @psulemon, but that's my stance on pretty much everything in life, not just Herbalife.diannethegeek wrote: »Never in a million years did I think I would see MFP change its stance on MLM products.
As @psulemon said, neither he nor I are the voice of MFP. Could someone provide a link to MFP's official stance on MLM products?2 -
Alluminati wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »Not that I support herbalife,but the notion that 3 anomalies qualifies as causation is a bit disturbing; especially considering the links between herbalife and liver issues happened in 2010. A time period in which a ton of protein shakes were linked to high levels of heavy metals. And this doesn't even take into consideration how often the formula has been changed (this goes for all protein shakes).
Do I think it's worth the money.. no, but I feel the same way about all MLM and over priced protein shakes. Are they quality.. I can't say because I haven't seen any independent research.
But if it's a product that helps people get on track and get fit, and they don't mind spending the money, then it's fine.
I was thinking the same thing, I haven't seen any evidence other than that one study of 3 people (and I think only 2 of them had used Herbalife products) of liver issues being linked to Herbalife. Still not my thing, but if it helps them and they want to spend the money, that's their business.
No one is going up to happy Herbalife users and giving unsolicited opinions here. They are responding to an OP that is specifically asking about it so obviously it's not private business.
How did you get "no one is allowed to share an opinion about not liking Herbalife" out of "Herbalife isn't my thing, but I think if someone finds it helpful to them and they want to spend their money that way, it's their business"?
Because you and another mod are defending it (for some odd reason).
Pointing out that the liver damage claims being made are not supported by science is defending it?
Saying we wouldn't use it personally, but we also aren't going to judge someone else if they've decided it is beneficial for them and want to spend their own money on it is defending it? I don't know about @psulemon, but that's my stance on pretty much everything in life, not just Herbalife.diannethegeek wrote: »Never in a million years did I think I would see MFP change its stance on MLM products.
As @psulemon said, neither he nor I are the voice of MFP. Could someone provide a link to MFP's official stance on MLM products?
Lol. I don't know why I bother.
Defend it all you want.0 -
Liver damage
2010
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004035/
Abstract
We report three cases of patients with acute liver injury induced by weight-loss herbal supplements. One patient took Hydroxycut while the other two took Herbalife supplements. Liver biopsies for all patients demonstrated findings consistent with drug-induced acute liver injury. To our knowledge, we are the first institute to report acute liver injury from both of these two types of weight-loss herbal supplements together as a case series. The series emphasizes the importance of taking a cautious approach when consuming herbal supplements for the purpose of weight loss.
2007
http://www.journal-of-hepatology.eu/article/S0168-8278(07)00406-0/abstract
Among the 22 cases of liver damage following Herbalife® intake analyzed in the two reports, two patients developed fulminant hepatic failure requiring super urgent liver transplantation which saved one patient’s life while the second died due to postoperative complications. Causality between the intake of Herbalife® products and the evolution of liver injury was carefully assessed by internationally accepted causality scores [13,14]. In five patients, causality was labelled “certain” by a positive re-challenge reaction and “probable” in additional 13 patients. Other potential causes were ruled out in all patients
4 cases in 2004
https://www.weizmann.ac.il/immunology/elinav/sites/immunology.elinav/files/2007_elinav_j_hep.pdf4 -
Liver damage
2007
http://www.journal-of-hepatology.eu/article/S0168-8278(07)00406-0/abstract
Among the 22 cases of liver damage following Herbalife® intake analyzed in the two reports, two patients developed fulminant hepatic failure requiring super urgent liver transplantation which saved one patient’s life while the second died due to postoperative complications. Causality between the intake of Herbalife® products and the evolution of liver injury was carefully assessed by internationally accepted causality scores [13,14]. In five patients, causality was labelled “certain” by a positive re-challenge reaction and “probable” in additional 13 patients. Other potential causes were ruled out in all patients
From that same article:
"However, the two reports raise more questions than they answer. Although causality was tested appropriately, it remains entirely speculative what might have been the cause of liver damage in the 22 patients. The patients took between 3 and 17 different Herbalife products which makes it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to identify the crucial compound(s)."
The article goes on to say that they were not able to get information from Herbalife, and in light of that:
"However, due to this lack of cooperation, attempts should have been made by the investigators to analyze the ingested Herbalife products for toxins, microbial contamination or to screen affected individuals for possible immunoal-lergic reactions to the consumed material. While this was not possible in the Swiss series due to retrospective data collection, at least one of the Israeli cases was apparently followed up recently as the relapse was noticed. However, neither the batch taken by these patients nor those taken by the other patients
were subjected to a closer analysis, although all patients were contacted personally."
So they never actually examined the products the people claim to have ingested. Further,
"Another explanation for Herbalife-associated liver damage could be a locally restricted contamination with chemicals such as softeners, preservatives, flavour enhancers, pesticides, or heavy metals either intentionally added during the manufacturing process or contained in the unrefined raw products, i.e. herb extracts [17]."
I believe @psulemon initially touched on the issues with metals that were prominent in many supplements during that time, and the local contamination issue is an important consideration, as
"It remains speculative why cases of Herbalife hepatotoxicity were only noticed in Switzerland and Israel, although Herbalife products are sold in at least 60 countries all over the world. Based on experiences with adverse drug reactions due to synthetic drugs, simple probability should have led to additional incidents of Herbalife-associated hepatotoxicity. Isolated series of drug-induced liver damage are highly suggestive of either significant underreporting in other countries with a more widespread consumption, or indicate the specific distribution of ‘‘spoiled’’ or contaminated batches. However, as the Swiss authors rightly state, the ‘‘threat to the public health’’ from Herbalife products is minor and should not be exaggerated when compared with incidence rates of adverse hepatic reactions of other over-the-counter pharmaceuticals such as non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs [18]."
It does not appear that the author is making an indisputable case for Herbalife being linked to liver damage, and even the Swiss did not feel that these incidents were cause for concern about the products and liver damage.1 -
Liver damage
2007
http://www.journal-of-hepatology.eu/article/S0168-8278(07)00406-0/abstract
Among the 22 cases of liver damage following Herbalife® intake analyzed in the two reports, two patients developed fulminant hepatic failure requiring super urgent liver transplantation which saved one patient’s life while the second died due to postoperative complications. Causality between the intake of Herbalife® products and the evolution of liver injury was carefully assessed by internationally accepted causality scores [13,14]. In five patients, causality was labelled “certain” by a positive re-challenge reaction and “probable” in additional 13 patients. Other potential causes were ruled out in all patients
From that same article:
"However, the two reports raise more questions than they answer. Although causality was tested appropriately, it remains entirely speculative what might have been the cause of liver damage in the 22 patients. The patients took between 3 and 17 different Herbalife products which makes it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to identify the crucial compound(s)."
The article goes on to say that they were not able to get information from Herbalife, and in light of that:
"However, due to this lack of cooperation, attempts should have been made by the investigators to analyze the ingested Herbalife products for toxins, microbial contamination or to screen affected individuals for possible immunoal-lergic reactions to the consumed material. While this was not possible in the Swiss series due to retrospective data collection, at least one of the Israeli cases was apparently followed up recently as the relapse was noticed. However, neither the batch taken by these patients nor those taken by the other patients
were subjected to a closer analysis, although all patients were contacted personally."
So they never actually examined the products the people claim to have ingested. Further,
"Another explanation for Herbalife-associated liver damage could be a locally restricted contamination with chemicals such as softeners, preservatives, flavour enhancers, pesticides, or heavy metals either intentionally added during the manufacturing process or contained in the unrefined raw products, i.e. herb extracts [17]."
I believe @psulemon initially touched on the issues with metals that were prominent in many supplements during that time, and the local contamination issue is an important consideration, as
"It remains speculative why cases of Herbalife hepatotoxicity were only noticed in Switzerland and Israel, although Herbalife products are sold in at least 60 countries all over the world. Based on experiences with adverse drug reactions due to synthetic drugs, simple probability should have led to additional incidents of Herbalife-associated hepatotoxicity. Isolated series of drug-induced liver damage are highly suggestive of either significant underreporting in other countries with a more widespread consumption, or indicate the specific distribution of ‘‘spoiled’’ or contaminated batches. However, as the Swiss authors rightly state, the ‘‘threat to the public health’’ from Herbalife products is minor and should not be exaggerated when compared with incidence rates of adverse hepatic reactions of other over-the-counter pharmaceuticals such as non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs [18]."
It does not appear that the author is making an indisputable case for Herbalife being linked to liver damage, and even the Swiss did not feel that these incidents were cause for concern about the products and liver damage.
Here is the consumer report back in 2010 about many of our favorite brands of protein powders and their associated contamination.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2010/july/food/protein-drinks/what-our-tests-found/index.htm
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/04/protein-drinks/index.htm1 -
Liver damage
4 cases in 2004
https://www.weizmann.ac.il/immunology/elinav/sites/immunology.elinav/files/2007_elinav_j_hep.pdf
This article was a reference in the second article, and these four cases were included in the count for the second article, so not an additional 4 instances. I believe the author of the second article did a good job pointing out the problems with the research conducted in this study.1 -
Meh. Lower costing, better quality protein powders and vitamins out there really. And with the added advantage that you don't have to deal with an annoying marketing rep. pestering you to buy more stuff...3
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Not that I support herbalife,but the notion that 3 anomalies qualifies as causation is a bit disturbing; especially considering the links between herbalife and liver issues happened in 2010. A time period in which a ton of protein shakes were linked to high levels of heavy metals. And this doesn't even take into consideration how often the formula has been changed (this goes for all protein shakes).
Do I think it's worth the money.. no, but I feel the same way about all MLM and over priced protein shakes. Are they quality.. I can't say because I haven't seen any independent research.
But if it's a product that helps people get on track and get fit, and they don't mind spending the money, then it's fine.Not that I support herbalife,but the notion that 3 anomalies qualifies as causation is a bit disturbing; especially considering the links between herbalife and liver issues happened in 2010. A time period in which a ton of protein shakes were linked to high levels of heavy metals. And this doesn't even take into consideration how often the formula has been changed (this goes for all protein shakes).
Do I think it's worth the money.. no, but I feel the same way about all MLM and over priced protein shakes. Are they quality.. I can't say because I haven't seen any independent research.
But if it's a product that helps people get on track and get fit, and they don't mind spending the money, then it's fine.
I was thinking the same thing, I haven't seen any evidence other than that one study of 3 people (and I think only 2 of them had used Herbalife products) of liver issues being linked to Herbalife. Still not my thing, but if it helps them and they want to spend the money, that's their business.
But, by the same token......
The OP did ask for opinions in a public forum.
In reality, how often do products such as this help people to create sustainable habits that help them manage their weight on a long term basis?
Probably the same success rate as all other programs, which includes calorie counting, carb counting, etc...
I doubt that, especially after knowing a lot of people who successfully lose weight eating real food and keeping it off. There are countless stories of the same type here and at other message boards of people eating real food and successfully managing their weight.
Let's face it herbalife is a quick fix for the majority of people who use it.
So you can still drink a protein shake and then eat real food throughout the day. That is what my wife does. She can't and doesn't eat breakfast. She needs to be awake for a few hours before even considering food. So she drinks a protein shake a few hours after my son wakes up and then a light lunch. Many of these plans, are only replacing one meal with a meal replace or replace a snack.
Also, the success forums at places like teambeachbody and other sites are equally large as the people here. In fact, used to be on the BB website and saw new ones everyday. And while I never did the supplements and I did the workouts and glad I did. The reason you don't see much success over here about these programs is because when they post, they get a lot of opinions on their approach.0 -
So glad I joined this site when a majority of common sense members posted a lot on the boards. Right away I learned that there were no short cuts, shakes, pills, or special diets needed to be successful. I will be forever grateful to you folks ( if you still lurk and read).
11 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Never in a million years did I think I would see MFP change its stance on MLM products.
Right? Not that I'd ever want to read intention into a post or anything, but MFP had traditionally been very anti MLM and is weird to see 2 people who represent MFP on the forums in here defending the product. You gotta wonder how that looks to someone doing a Google search and finding this thread. Whether or not your intend to be the voice of MFP, you objectively represent them by being in a position of authority on their forums.7 -
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Alatariel75 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Never in a million years did I think I would see MFP change its stance on MLM products.
Right? Not that I'd ever want to read intention into a post or anything, but MFP had traditionally been very anti MLM and is weird to see 2 people who represent MFP on the forums in here defending the product. You gotta wonder how that looks to someone doing a Google search and finding this thread. Whether or not your intend to be the voice of MFP, you objectively represent them by being in a position of authority on their forums.
How is pointing out that people are making false claims about a product being linked to liver damage defending the product? I was under the impression that users in this community wanted to debunk false information, and in this case, the claims that people are making are not supported by the science they themselves are presenting.
Both @psulemon and I have said that we don't use the products and do not intend to do so, but we also make it clear that that decision is based on our own personal preferences. Neither of us have taken any issue with any posts in this topic where people have expressed a personal preference not to use the products, we have specifically challenged the claims about liver damage.
I would hope that anyone doing a Google search would appreciate 2 people who "represent MFP," even though we actually do not, making an effort to discuss the topic objectively and not to support the spread of misinformation based on personal opinions about the topic.1 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Never in a million years did I think I would see MFP change its stance on MLM products.
Right? Not that I'd ever want to read intention into a post or anything, but MFP had traditionally been very anti MLM and is weird to see 2 people who represent MFP on the forums in here defending the product. You gotta wonder how that looks to someone doing a Google search and finding this thread. Whether or not your intend to be the voice of MFP, you objectively represent them by being in a position of authority on their forums.
How is pointing out that people are making false claims about a product being linked to liver damage defending the product? I was under the impression that users in this community wanted to debunk false information, and in this case, the claims that people are making are not supported by the science they themselves are presenting.
Both @psulemon and I have said that we don't use the products and do not intend to do so, but we also make it clear that that decision is based on our own personal preferences. Neither of us have taken any issue with any posts in this topic where people have expressed a personal preference not to use the products, we have specifically challenged the claims about liver damage.
I would hope that anyone doing a Google search would appreciate 2 people who "represent MFP," even though we actually do not, making an effort to discuss the topic objectively and not to support the spread of misinformation based on personal opinions about the topic.
You win. Not sure why your going on. No one is arguing with you anymore.-1 -
Liver damage
2010
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004035/
Abstract
We report three cases of patients with acute liver injury induced by weight-loss herbal supplements. One patient took Hydroxycut while the other two took Herbalife supplements. Liver biopsies for all patients demonstrated findings consistent with drug-induced acute liver injury. To our knowledge, we are the first institute to report acute liver injury from both of these two types of weight-loss herbal supplements together as a case series. The series emphasizes the importance of taking a cautious approach when consuming herbal supplements for the purpose of weight loss.
2007
http://www.journal-of-hepatology.eu/article/S0168-8278(07)00406-0/abstract
Among the 22 cases of liver damage following Herbalife® intake analyzed in the two reports, two patients developed fulminant hepatic failure requiring super urgent liver transplantation which saved one patient’s life while the second died due to postoperative complications. Causality between the intake of Herbalife® products and the evolution of liver injury was carefully assessed by internationally accepted causality scores [13,14]. In five patients, causality was labelled “certain” by a positive re-challenge reaction and “probable” in additional 13 patients. Other potential causes were ruled out in all patients
4 cases in 2004
https://www.weizmann.ac.il/immunology/elinav/sites/immunology.elinav/files/2007_elinav_j_hep.pdf
Here's some more studies for you, if you have an interest. Some of these may be repeats. And other manufacturer's products are also implicated, but it looks like you found that out already.
"Acute liver injury induced by weight-loss herbal supplements"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004035/
"Severe hepatotoxicity following ingestion of Herbalife nutritional supplements contaminated with Bacillus subtilis"
http://www.ifik.unibe.ch/unibe/medizin/ifik/content/e7961/e8166/e8582/e8618/bacillus_subt_herbalife_ger.pdf
"Prolonged intrahepatic cholestasis and renal failure secondary to anabolic androgenic steroid-enriched dietary supplements"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19238093
"Hepatotoxicity associated with the use of Herbalife"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20197595
"Herbal does not mean innocuous: ten cases of severe hepatotoxicity associated with dietary supplements from Herbalife products"
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17692989
"Association between consumption of Herbalife nutritional supplements and acute hepatotoxicity"
http://wws.weizmann.ac.il/immunology/elinav/sites/immunology.elinav/files/2007_elinav_j_hep.pdf
See also, http://www.mlmwatch.org/04C/Herbalife/herbalife00.html
Happy reading 0 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »diannethegeek wrote: »Never in a million years did I think I would see MFP change its stance on MLM products.
Right? Not that I'd ever want to read intention into a post or anything, but MFP had traditionally been very anti MLM and is weird to see 2 people who represent MFP on the forums in here defending the product. You gotta wonder how that looks to someone doing a Google search and finding this thread. Whether or not your intend to be the voice of MFP, you objectively represent them by being in a position of authority on their forums.
100% this. Glad someone said it. I've been trying to think of an eloquent way to say it.4
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