Herbalife
Replies
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In another thread, about another MLM protein powder, I posted that Shakeology's ingredients have not been verified by anyone outside Beachbody, so figured I would chime in.
The difference between Trutein and Herbalife, or Optimum Nutrition and Shakeology, is that Trutein and ON are basically protein powder and flavoring, are sold as extra protein to help you build muscle and nothing more, and have a similar price which is pretty standard across the board (give or take). My understanding at least is that it is pretty widely accepted that if you are working out in an effort to build muscle, it is important to get enough protein, and if you struggle to get it in food, a protein powder can help.
Herbalife and Shakeology say they contain all these magical superfood ingredients that will make you lose weight, stop catching colds, clear your skin, and load you full of anti-oxidants that will make you healthier. And because of this they are a bargain at 3, 4, or 5 times the price. They are making unsubstantiated health claims and will not (or cannot) prove that a) those ingredients are present in any measurable amount and b) that those ingredients actually do what they claim. So my read on the situation is that they are Slimfast with a fraudulent label.
Based on that alone, I feel confident saying they are a low-quality, overpriced scam. They might contain a good quality protein powder in them, but why should I even believe that when they are drowning it in woo?
You could make a "meal replacement" shake by blending up your protein powder with some milk, oats, and whatever cheap greens you can find in your supermarket for less money. Or buy the meal replacement shakes they sell in Walmart or Target or the grocery store - at least you'll be getting what you paid for. I might be a little over-passionate about this because I spent more than $1000 over the course of a year on Shakeology and it pisses me off now that I know better. I really wanted to be healthy and natural and smarter than the SAD and was naive enough to fall for that crap
So let me speak in terms of shakeology, since i have much greater insights into their stuff but I feel it can apply to all MLM shakes. Beachbody fully recognizes you have to cut calories. In fact, their shakeology commercials or at least the ones I have seen, all allude to using shakeology to cut calories. Essentially, use shakeology to replace one of your high calorie meals to help cut calories with a potential outcome of losing weight. Now, I do get they play on the fact of superfoods and don't recognize the dosage part of it, which I find a bit ridiculous, but that is marketing and there may be some study that supports that to some standard.
Honestly, Alan Aragon has one of that best arguments against MLM's. And my personal views are in line with that. They are over-hyped and inferior in terms of ingredients. Not this non sense that it's going to cause liver damage.
On a side note, since Herbalife and Beachbody have a lot of other supplements. The bodybuilding industry does the same thing. How many of these protein companies promote BCAAs, pre -, intra and post - workouts, and a plethora of other "muscle building" products? It just makes me laugh.
Well.....why not just reduce the size of the meal instead?
Satiety and adherence could be a part of it.1 -
In another thread, about another MLM protein powder, I posted that Shakeology's ingredients have not been verified by anyone outside Beachbody, so figured I would chime in.
The difference between Trutein and Herbalife, or Optimum Nutrition and Shakeology, is that Trutein and ON are basically protein powder and flavoring, are sold as extra protein to help you build muscle and nothing more, and have a similar price which is pretty standard across the board (give or take). My understanding at least is that it is pretty widely accepted that if you are working out in an effort to build muscle, it is important to get enough protein, and if you struggle to get it in food, a protein powder can help.
Herbalife and Shakeology say they contain all these magical superfood ingredients that will make you lose weight, stop catching colds, clear your skin, and load you full of anti-oxidants that will make you healthier. And because of this they are a bargain at 3, 4, or 5 times the price. They are making unsubstantiated health claims and will not (or cannot) prove that a) those ingredients are present in any measurable amount and b) that those ingredients actually do what they claim. So my read on the situation is that they are Slimfast with a fraudulent label.
Based on that alone, I feel confident saying they are a low-quality, overpriced scam. They might contain a good quality protein powder in them, but why should I even believe that when they are drowning it in woo?
You could make a "meal replacement" shake by blending up your protein powder with some milk, oats, and whatever cheap greens you can find in your supermarket for less money. Or buy the meal replacement shakes they sell in Walmart or Target or the grocery store - at least you'll be getting what you paid for. I might be a little over-passionate about this because I spent more than $1000 over the course of a year on Shakeology and it pisses me off now that I know better. I really wanted to be healthy and natural and smarter than the SAD and was naive enough to fall for that crap
So let me speak in terms of shakeology, since i have much greater insights into their stuff but I feel it can apply to all MLM shakes. Beachbody fully recognizes you have to cut calories. In fact, their shakeology commercials or at least the ones I have seen, all allude to using shakeology to cut calories. Essentially, use shakeology to replace one of your high calorie meals to help cut calories with a potential outcome of losing weight. Now, I do get they play on the fact of superfoods and don't recognize the dosage part of it, which I find a bit ridiculous, but that is marketing and there may be some study that supports that to some standard.
Honestly, Alan Aragon has one of that best arguments against MLM's. And my personal views are in line with that. They are over-hyped and inferior in terms of ingredients. Not this non sense that it's going to cause liver damage.
On a side note, since Herbalife and Beachbody have a lot of other supplements. The bodybuilding industry does the same thing. How many of these protein companies promote BCAAs, pre -, intra and post - workouts, and a plethora of other "muscle building" products? It just makes me laugh.
Well.....why not just reduce the size of the meal instead?
Personal preference? It's pretty much the same as deciding to supplement with protein shakes versus trying to hit protein goals through meals - both options will get you to your goal, but some people find one option works better for them in getting there.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Never in a million years did I think I would see MFP change its stance on MLM products.
So when did @kgeyser and myself become the voice/stance of MFP? Also, you should probably read my post again and read what I actually wrote. I don't support, nor would I ever buy a supplement from an MLM (I will note that I lost 50 lbs by using BeachBody workouts). But I do know people personally, who have lost the weight and kept it off by using things like advocare and shakeology. I would never use that approach, but I understand that different things work for others. And honestly, if someone got fit from it, why is is such a big deal.
What I am arguing is how people make their assessment? How is overpaying for a protein shake like this any different than people buying Trutein, PEScience or others vs buying body fortress?
What I want to know is why are you giving people a hard time when you've done it many, many times yourself over the past few years?
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/21056668/#Comment_21056668
There is largely a difference between telling someone that it taste like chalk and there are cheaper options than the juxtaposition that it can lead to liver damage. If you stalk any of my shakeology post (as there are a ton of them), you will see it's fairly consistent in saying that it taste like crap and you can get more nutrition out of a NatureMade multivitamin and a protein shake.1 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Never in a million years did I think I would see MFP change its stance on MLM products.
So when did @kgeyser and myself become the voice/stance of MFP? Also, you should probably read my post again and read what I actually wrote. I don't support, nor would I ever buy a supplement from an MLM (I will note that I lost 50 lbs by using BeachBody workouts). But I do know people personally, who have lost the weight and kept it off by using things like advocare and shakeology. I would never use that approach, but I understand that different things work for others. And honestly, if someone got fit from it, why is is such a big deal.
What I am arguing is how people make their assessment? How is overpaying for a protein shake like this any different than people buying Trutein, PEScience or others vs buying body fortress?
What I want to know is why are you giving people a hard time when you've done it many, many times yourself over the past few years?
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/21056668/#Comment_21056668
There is largely a difference between telling someone that it taste like chalk and there are cheaper options than the juxtaposition that it can lead to liver damage. If you stalk any of my shakeology post (as there are a ton of them), you will see it's fairly consistent in saying that it taste like crap and you can get more nutrition out of a NatureMade multivitamin and a protein shake.
Right, but I've in no way discussed the liver (except that processing large quantities of filters provides extra work for the liver in general, which can be said of anyone taking pills in large quantities), but you keep seeming to take issue with what I've been saying in this thread.0 -
diannethegeek wrote: »Never in a million years did I think I would see MFP change its stance on MLM products.
So when did @kgeyser and myself become the voice/stance of MFP? Also, you should probably read my post again and read what I actually wrote. I don't support, nor would I ever buy a supplement from an MLM (I will note that I lost 50 lbs by using BeachBody workouts). But I do know people personally, who have lost the weight and kept it off by using things like advocare and shakeology. I would never use that approach, but I understand that different things work for others. And honestly, if someone got fit from it, why is is such a big deal.
What I am arguing is how people make their assessment? How is overpaying for a protein shake like this any different than people buying Trutein, PEScience or others vs buying body fortress?
What I want to know is why are you giving people a hard time when you've done it many, many times yourself over the past few years?
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/21056668/#Comment_21056668
There is largely a difference between telling someone that it taste like chalk and there are cheaper options than the juxtaposition that it can lead to liver damage. If you stalk any of my shakeology post (as there are a ton of them), you will see it's fairly consistent in saying that it taste like crap and you can get more nutrition out of a NatureMade multivitamin and a protein shake.
Right, but I've in no way discussed the liver (except that processing large quantities of filters provides extra work for the liver in general, which can be said of anyone taking pills in large quantities), but you keep seeming to take issue with what I've been saying in this thread.
I am not taking issue with anything you said. I am engaging based on your initial engagement and others as well.0 -
Alluminati wrote: »Whether or not it causes liver damage, it is still an MLM with annoying salesmen who will say anything to sell their over priced, sub par products. They don't need any fitness training to be advising anyone on health and some misrepresent themselves or outright lie to get sales. Sorry but people need to know this and not get taken in. So while you sit there feeling all scholarly because your debating the health benefits of Herbalife (lol), I'm going to stick to common sense and stay away and advising others to do the same. I don't care if the advice is taken or not but at least I said something.
LOL How is that different from every other product on the market ever? We are bombarded with advertising, sales people and marketing all day every day. Many (most) of them selling sub par products.
It will be interesting to see how Herbalife restructures from a MLM based model to a retail based model. No more recruiting down chain patsies. They will have to sell product to retail customers to make money, which may be hard given their high prices for lower quality products. Who knows, on the straight retail model they are going to have to adopt, their prices may even come down as every container of product doesn't have to send diluted proceeds up-chain.0 -
Because the thread is about Hebalife and not advertising in general? If you wan't to discuss that then maybe start a new thread.BillMcKay1 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »Whether or not it causes liver damage, it is still an MLM with annoying salesmen who will say anything to sell their over priced, sub par products. They don't need any fitness training to be advising anyone on health and some misrepresent themselves or outright lie to get sales. Sorry but people need to know this and not get taken in. So while you sit there feeling all scholarly because your debating the health benefits of Herbalife (lol), I'm going to stick to common sense and stay away and advising others to do the same. I don't care if the advice is taken or not but at least I said something.
LOL How is that different from every other product on the market ever? We are bombarded with advertising, sales people and marketing all day every day. Many (most) of them selling sub par products.
It will be interesting to see how Herbalife restructures from a MLM based model to a retail based model. No more recruiting down chain patsies. They will have to sell product to retail customers to make money, which may be hard given their high prices for lower quality products. Who knows, on the straight retail model they are going to have to adopt, their prices may even come down as every container of product doesn't have to send diluted proceeds up-chain.
I have been, in the last 6 months, approached by 3 different Herbalife salespeople. 2 in the grocery store and 1 in front of my kids school. All 3 times I was wearing my gym clothes and had my gym bag. The first one managed to insult me because he asked if I knew where the local gym was (I guess since I was dressed as such) and me, being a polite dummy, told him. He then asked about my workouts and started to go into a spiel about how I could be looking better if I decided to try his products and gave me his card. My Facebook and Instagram are bombarded with this stuff by friends and sadly, family members.
I don't have Avon people waving me down in grocery stores or Pampered Chef people approaching me in the nail salon (although I work with some who do it as a part time and STILL, none have approached me to buy anything). So yeah, there's a difference in the MLM push.
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Liver damage
2007
http://www.journal-of-hepatology.eu/article/S0168-8278(07)00406-0/abstract
Among the 22 cases of liver damage following Herbalife® intake analyzed in the two reports, two patients developed fulminant hepatic failure requiring super urgent liver transplantation which saved one patient’s life while the second died due to postoperative complications. Causality between the intake of Herbalife® products and the evolution of liver injury was carefully assessed by internationally accepted causality scores [13,14]. In five patients, causality was labelled “certain” by a positive re-challenge reaction and “probable” in additional 13 patients. Other potential causes were ruled out in all patients
From that same article:
"However, the two reports raise more questions than they answer. Although causality was tested appropriately, it remains entirely speculative what might have been the cause of liver damage in the 22 patients. The patients took between 3 and 17 different Herbalife products which makes it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to identify the crucial compound(s)."
The article goes on to say that they were not able to get information from Herbalife, and in light of that:
"However, due to this lack of cooperation, attempts should have been made by the investigators to analyze the ingested Herbalife products for toxins, microbial contamination or to screen affected individuals for possible immunoal-lergic reactions to the consumed material. While this was not possible in the Swiss series due to retrospective data collection, at least one of the Israeli cases was apparently followed up recently as the relapse was noticed. However, neither the batch taken by these patients nor those taken by the other patients
were subjected to a closer analysis, although all patients were contacted personally."
So they never actually examined the products the people claim to have ingested. Further,
"Another explanation for Herbalife-associated liver damage could be a locally restricted contamination with chemicals such as softeners, preservatives, flavour enhancers, pesticides, or heavy metals either intentionally added during the manufacturing process or contained in the unrefined raw products, i.e. herb extracts [17]."
I believe @psulemon initially touched on the issues with metals that were prominent in many supplements during that time, and the local contamination issue is an important consideration, as
"It remains speculative why cases of Herbalife hepatotoxicity were only noticed in Switzerland and Israel, although Herbalife products are sold in at least 60 countries all over the world. Based on experiences with adverse drug reactions due to synthetic drugs, simple probability should have led to additional incidents of Herbalife-associated hepatotoxicity. Isolated series of drug-induced liver damage are highly suggestive of either significant underreporting in other countries with a more widespread consumption, or indicate the specific distribution of ‘‘spoiled’’ or contaminated batches. However, as the Swiss authors rightly state, the ‘‘threat to the public health’’ from Herbalife products is minor and should not be exaggerated when compared with incidence rates of adverse hepatic reactions of other over-the-counter pharmaceuticals such as non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs [18]."
It does not appear that the author is making an indisputable case for Herbalife being linked to liver damage, and even the Swiss did not feel that these incidents were cause for concern about the products and liver damage.
Here is the consumer report back in 2010 about many of our favorite brands of protein powders and their associated contamination.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2010/july/food/protein-drinks/what-our-tests-found/index.htm
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/04/protein-drinks/index.htm
That's a misleading study. I know I posted about it in the past, although I can never find anything here.
Here's a link to an Alan Aragon article: http://nicktumminello.com/2010/07/poison-protein-and-consumer-reports-nutrition-expert-alan-aragon-speaks-out/
(For the record, none of the protein powders I happen to use were even involved, and I am not concerned about them from my research.)
I'm also not sure why you are comparing Herbalife to a protein powder. It's something like 6 g of protein for 100 calories, which would be a pretty poor protein powder. Just eating eggs would be a better protein source than that.1 -
In another thread, about another MLM protein powder, I posted that Shakeology's ingredients have not been verified by anyone outside Beachbody, so figured I would chime in.
The difference between Trutein and Herbalife, or Optimum Nutrition and Shakeology, is that Trutein and ON are basically protein powder and flavoring, are sold as extra protein to help you build muscle and nothing more, and have a similar price which is pretty standard across the board (give or take). My understanding at least is that it is pretty widely accepted that if you are working out in an effort to build muscle, it is important to get enough protein, and if you struggle to get it in food, a protein powder can help.
Herbalife and Shakeology say they contain all these magical superfood ingredients that will make you lose weight, stop catching colds, clear your skin, and load you full of anti-oxidants that will make you healthier. And because of this they are a bargain at 3, 4, or 5 times the price. They are making unsubstantiated health claims and will not (or cannot) prove that a) those ingredients are present in any measurable amount and b) that those ingredients actually do what they claim. So my read on the situation is that they are Slimfast with a fraudulent label.
Based on that alone, I feel confident saying they are a low-quality, overpriced scam. They might contain a good quality protein powder in them, but why should I even believe that when they are drowning it in woo?
You could make a "meal replacement" shake by blending up your protein powder with some milk, oats, and whatever cheap greens you can find in your supermarket for less money. Or buy the meal replacement shakes they sell in Walmart or Target or the grocery store - at least you'll be getting what you paid for. I might be a little over-passionate about this because I spent more than $1000 over the course of a year on Shakeology and it pisses me off now that I know better. I really wanted to be healthy and natural and smarter than the SAD and was naive enough to fall for that crap
So let me speak in terms of shakeology, since i have much greater insights into their stuff but I feel it can apply to all MLM shakes. Beachbody fully recognizes you have to cut calories. In fact, their shakeology commercials or at least the ones I have seen, all allude to using shakeology to cut calories. Essentially, use shakeology to replace one of your high calorie meals to help cut calories with a potential outcome of losing weight. Now, I do get they play on the fact of superfoods and don't recognize the dosage part of it, which I find a bit ridiculous, but that is marketing and there may be some study that supports that to some standard.
Honestly, Alan Aragon has one of that best arguments against MLM's. And my personal views are in line with that. They are over-hyped and inferior in terms of ingredients. Not this non sense that it's going to cause liver damage.
On a side note, since Herbalife and Beachbody have a lot of other supplements. The bodybuilding industry does the same thing. How many of these protein companies promote BCAAs, pre -, intra and post - workouts, and a plethora of other "muscle building" products? It just makes me laugh.
Well.....why not just reduce the size of the meal instead?
You can't really con people into recruiting their friends and family into selling "reducing the size of your meal".4 -
sammrowles wrote: »I have struggled to lose weight for a long time until I tried Herbalife! A shake for breakfast is all I do and it works very well.
Do you think just eating a similar-calorie breakfast instead of the Herbalife would not work just as well? If so, how do you explain that? It's claims such as these -- that Herbalife has some kind of magical weight loss properties (same with Shakeology) -- that I find scammy and offensive.
Just their marketing practices (close enough to a pyramid scheme in my book) would be enough to make me avoid them for ethical reasons even if I thought they were a good product, but I see no evidence that they are anyway.1 -
Alluminati wrote: »
Because the thread is about Hebalife and not advertising in general? If you wan't to discuss that then maybe start a new thread.BillMcKay1 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »Whether or not it causes liver damage, it is still an MLM with annoying salesmen who will say anything to sell their over priced, sub par products. They don't need any fitness training to be advising anyone on health and some misrepresent themselves or outright lie to get sales. Sorry but people need to know this and not get taken in. So while you sit there feeling all scholarly because your debating the health benefits of Herbalife (lol), I'm going to stick to common sense and stay away and advising others to do the same. I don't care if the advice is taken or not but at least I said something.
LOL How is that different from every other product on the market ever? We are bombarded with advertising, sales people and marketing all day every day. Many (most) of them selling sub par products.
It will be interesting to see how Herbalife restructures from a MLM based model to a retail based model. No more recruiting down chain patsies. They will have to sell product to retail customers to make money, which may be hard given their high prices for lower quality products. Who knows, on the straight retail model they are going to have to adopt, their prices may even come down as every container of product doesn't have to send diluted proceeds up-chain.
I have been, in the last 6 months, approached by 3 different Herbalife salespeople. 2 in the grocery store and 1 in front of my kids school. All 3 times I was wearing my gym clothes and had my gym bag. The first one managed to insult me because he asked if I knew where the local gym was (I guess since I was dressed as such) and me, being a polite dummy, told him. He then asked about my workouts and started to go into a spiel about how I could be looking better if I decided to try his products and gave me his card. My Facebook and Instagram are bombarded with this stuff by friends and sadly, family members.
I don't have Avon people waving me down in grocery stores or Pampered Chef people approaching me in the nail salon (although I work with some who do it as a part time and STILL, none have approached me to buy anything). So yeah, there's a difference in the MLM push.
I know right. I was at Costco the other day and like 10 different people tried to push their products on me. Something about try this free sample of tuna on a cracker...pushy I tell you what.2 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »
Because the thread is about Hebalife and not advertising in general? If you wan't to discuss that then maybe start a new thread.BillMcKay1 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »Whether or not it causes liver damage, it is still an MLM with annoying salesmen who will say anything to sell their over priced, sub par products. They don't need any fitness training to be advising anyone on health and some misrepresent themselves or outright lie to get sales. Sorry but people need to know this and not get taken in. So while you sit there feeling all scholarly because your debating the health benefits of Herbalife (lol), I'm going to stick to common sense and stay away and advising others to do the same. I don't care if the advice is taken or not but at least I said something.
LOL How is that different from every other product on the market ever? We are bombarded with advertising, sales people and marketing all day every day. Many (most) of them selling sub par products.
It will be interesting to see how Herbalife restructures from a MLM based model to a retail based model. No more recruiting down chain patsies. They will have to sell product to retail customers to make money, which may be hard given their high prices for lower quality products. Who knows, on the straight retail model they are going to have to adopt, their prices may even come down as every container of product doesn't have to send diluted proceeds up-chain.
I have been, in the last 6 months, approached by 3 different Herbalife salespeople. 2 in the grocery store and 1 in front of my kids school. All 3 times I was wearing my gym clothes and had my gym bag. The first one managed to insult me because he asked if I knew where the local gym was (I guess since I was dressed as such) and me, being a polite dummy, told him. He then asked about my workouts and started to go into a spiel about how I could be looking better if I decided to try his products and gave me his card. My Facebook and Instagram are bombarded with this stuff by friends and sadly, family members.
I don't have Avon people waving me down in grocery stores or Pampered Chef people approaching me in the nail salon (although I work with some who do it as a part time and STILL, none have approached me to buy anything). So yeah, there's a difference in the MLM push.
lol ok then......
1 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »Whether or not it causes liver damage, it is still an MLM with annoying salesmen who will say anything to sell their over priced, sub par products. They don't need any fitness training to be advising anyone on health and some misrepresent themselves or outright lie to get sales. Sorry but people need to know this and not get taken in. So while you sit there feeling all scholarly because your debating the health benefits of Herbalife (lol), I'm going to stick to common sense and stay away and advising others to do the same. I don't care if the advice is taken or not but at least I said something.
LOL How is that different from every other product on the market ever? We are bombarded with advertising, sales people and marketing all day every day. Many (most) of them selling sub par products.
It will be interesting to see how Herbalife restructures from a MLM based model to a retail based model. No more recruiting down chain patsies. They will have to sell product to retail customers to make money, which may be hard given their high prices for lower quality products. Who knows, on the straight retail model they are going to have to adopt, their prices may even come down as every container of product doesn't have to send diluted proceeds up-chain.
They may not end up lowering their prices even when they go retail. Most of the home-sales businesses I see people talking about on FB also offer an option to purchase directly in addition to having consultants, at the same prices. They may try to move to a model like that, which eliminates the chain to a point, but would still have people signing on as consultants.0 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »Whether or not it causes liver damage, it is still an MLM with annoying salesmen who will say anything to sell their over priced, sub par products. They don't need any fitness training to be advising anyone on health and some misrepresent themselves or outright lie to get sales. Sorry but people need to know this and not get taken in. So while you sit there feeling all scholarly because your debating the health benefits of Herbalife (lol), I'm going to stick to common sense and stay away and advising others to do the same. I don't care if the advice is taken or not but at least I said something.
LOL How is that different from every other product on the market ever? We are bombarded with advertising, sales people and marketing all day every day. Many (most) of them selling sub par products.
It will be interesting to see how Herbalife restructures from a MLM based model to a retail based model. No more recruiting down chain patsies. They will have to sell product to retail customers to make money, which may be hard given their high prices for lower quality products. Who knows, on the straight retail model they are going to have to adopt, their prices may even come down as every container of product doesn't have to send diluted proceeds up-chain.
They may not end up lowering their prices even when they go retail. Most of the home-sales businesses I see people talking about on FB also offer an option to purchase directly in addition to having consultants, at the same prices. They may try to move to a model like that, which eliminates the chain to a point, but would still have people signing on as consultants.
True. I believe one of the terms of the settlement was Herbalife would have to distinguish between those are active retail sellers and those who only signed on to get the discount.0 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »
Because the thread is about Hebalife and not advertising in general? If you wan't to discuss that then maybe start a new thread.BillMcKay1 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »Whether or not it causes liver damage, it is still an MLM with annoying salesmen who will say anything to sell their over priced, sub par products. They don't need any fitness training to be advising anyone on health and some misrepresent themselves or outright lie to get sales. Sorry but people need to know this and not get taken in. So while you sit there feeling all scholarly because your debating the health benefits of Herbalife (lol), I'm going to stick to common sense and stay away and advising others to do the same. I don't care if the advice is taken or not but at least I said something.
LOL How is that different from every other product on the market ever? We are bombarded with advertising, sales people and marketing all day every day. Many (most) of them selling sub par products.
It will be interesting to see how Herbalife restructures from a MLM based model to a retail based model. No more recruiting down chain patsies. They will have to sell product to retail customers to make money, which may be hard given their high prices for lower quality products. Who knows, on the straight retail model they are going to have to adopt, their prices may even come down as every container of product doesn't have to send diluted proceeds up-chain.
I have been, in the last 6 months, approached by 3 different Herbalife salespeople. 2 in the grocery store and 1 in front of my kids school. All 3 times I was wearing my gym clothes and had my gym bag. The first one managed to insult me because he asked if I knew where the local gym was (I guess since I was dressed as such) and me, being a polite dummy, told him. He then asked about my workouts and started to go into a spiel about how I could be looking better if I decided to try his products and gave me his card. My Facebook and Instagram are bombarded with this stuff by friends and sadly, family members.
I don't have Avon people waving me down in grocery stores or Pampered Chef people approaching me in the nail salon (although I work with some who do it as a part time and STILL, none have approached me to buy anything). So yeah, there's a difference in the MLM push.
I know right. I was at Costco the other day and like 10 different people tried to push their products on me. Something about try this free sample of tuna on a cracker...pushy I tell you what.
I don't get it.0 -
Alluminati wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »
Because the thread is about Hebalife and not advertising in general? If you wan't to discuss that then maybe start a new thread.BillMcKay1 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »Whether or not it causes liver damage, it is still an MLM with annoying salesmen who will say anything to sell their over priced, sub par products. They don't need any fitness training to be advising anyone on health and some misrepresent themselves or outright lie to get sales. Sorry but people need to know this and not get taken in. So while you sit there feeling all scholarly because your debating the health benefits of Herbalife (lol), I'm going to stick to common sense and stay away and advising others to do the same. I don't care if the advice is taken or not but at least I said something.
LOL How is that different from every other product on the market ever? We are bombarded with advertising, sales people and marketing all day every day. Many (most) of them selling sub par products.
It will be interesting to see how Herbalife restructures from a MLM based model to a retail based model. No more recruiting down chain patsies. They will have to sell product to retail customers to make money, which may be hard given their high prices for lower quality products. Who knows, on the straight retail model they are going to have to adopt, their prices may even come down as every container of product doesn't have to send diluted proceeds up-chain.
I have been, in the last 6 months, approached by 3 different Herbalife salespeople. 2 in the grocery store and 1 in front of my kids school. All 3 times I was wearing my gym clothes and had my gym bag. The first one managed to insult me because he asked if I knew where the local gym was (I guess since I was dressed as such) and me, being a polite dummy, told him. He then asked about my workouts and started to go into a spiel about how I could be looking better if I decided to try his products and gave me his card. My Facebook and Instagram are bombarded with this stuff by friends and sadly, family members.
I don't have Avon people waving me down in grocery stores or Pampered Chef people approaching me in the nail salon (although I work with some who do it as a part time and STILL, none have approached me to buy anything). So yeah, there's a difference in the MLM push.
I know right. I was at Costco the other day and like 10 different people tried to push their products on me. Something about try this free sample of tuna on a cracker...pushy I tell you what.
I don't get it.
You know.. Those reps with their sample offers on every corner of the supermarket. I try not to make eye contact with them!0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »
Because the thread is about Hebalife and not advertising in general? If you wan't to discuss that then maybe start a new thread.BillMcKay1 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »Whether or not it causes liver damage, it is still an MLM with annoying salesmen who will say anything to sell their over priced, sub par products. They don't need any fitness training to be advising anyone on health and some misrepresent themselves or outright lie to get sales. Sorry but people need to know this and not get taken in. So while you sit there feeling all scholarly because your debating the health benefits of Herbalife (lol), I'm going to stick to common sense and stay away and advising others to do the same. I don't care if the advice is taken or not but at least I said something.
LOL How is that different from every other product on the market ever? We are bombarded with advertising, sales people and marketing all day every day. Many (most) of them selling sub par products.
It will be interesting to see how Herbalife restructures from a MLM based model to a retail based model. No more recruiting down chain patsies. They will have to sell product to retail customers to make money, which may be hard given their high prices for lower quality products. Who knows, on the straight retail model they are going to have to adopt, their prices may even come down as every container of product doesn't have to send diluted proceeds up-chain.
I have been, in the last 6 months, approached by 3 different Herbalife salespeople. 2 in the grocery store and 1 in front of my kids school. All 3 times I was wearing my gym clothes and had my gym bag. The first one managed to insult me because he asked if I knew where the local gym was (I guess since I was dressed as such) and me, being a polite dummy, told him. He then asked about my workouts and started to go into a spiel about how I could be looking better if I decided to try his products and gave me his card. My Facebook and Instagram are bombarded with this stuff by friends and sadly, family members.
I don't have Avon people waving me down in grocery stores or Pampered Chef people approaching me in the nail salon (although I work with some who do it as a part time and STILL, none have approached me to buy anything). So yeah, there's a difference in the MLM push.
I know right. I was at Costco the other day and like 10 different people tried to push their products on me. Something about try this free sample of tuna on a cracker...pushy I tell you what.
I don't get it.
You know.. Those reps with their sample offers on every corner of the supermarket. I try not to make eye contact with them!
Those people in the way that make it impossible to navigate anywhere with a cart and who are lucky that I never actually bring a weapon to the grocery store? (In fact, I'm not allowed to push the cart since my husband is convinced that I can turn that into a weapon.)0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »
Because the thread is about Hebalife and not advertising in general? If you wan't to discuss that then maybe start a new thread.BillMcKay1 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »Whether or not it causes liver damage, it is still an MLM with annoying salesmen who will say anything to sell their over priced, sub par products. They don't need any fitness training to be advising anyone on health and some misrepresent themselves or outright lie to get sales. Sorry but people need to know this and not get taken in. So while you sit there feeling all scholarly because your debating the health benefits of Herbalife (lol), I'm going to stick to common sense and stay away and advising others to do the same. I don't care if the advice is taken or not but at least I said something.
LOL How is that different from every other product on the market ever? We are bombarded with advertising, sales people and marketing all day every day. Many (most) of them selling sub par products.
It will be interesting to see how Herbalife restructures from a MLM based model to a retail based model. No more recruiting down chain patsies. They will have to sell product to retail customers to make money, which may be hard given their high prices for lower quality products. Who knows, on the straight retail model they are going to have to adopt, their prices may even come down as every container of product doesn't have to send diluted proceeds up-chain.
I have been, in the last 6 months, approached by 3 different Herbalife salespeople. 2 in the grocery store and 1 in front of my kids school. All 3 times I was wearing my gym clothes and had my gym bag. The first one managed to insult me because he asked if I knew where the local gym was (I guess since I was dressed as such) and me, being a polite dummy, told him. He then asked about my workouts and started to go into a spiel about how I could be looking better if I decided to try his products and gave me his card. My Facebook and Instagram are bombarded with this stuff by friends and sadly, family members.
I don't have Avon people waving me down in grocery stores or Pampered Chef people approaching me in the nail salon (although I work with some who do it as a part time and STILL, none have approached me to buy anything). So yeah, there's a difference in the MLM push.
I know right. I was at Costco the other day and like 10 different people tried to push their products on me. Something about try this free sample of tuna on a cracker...pushy I tell you what.
I don't get it.
You know.. Those reps with their sample offers on every corner of the supermarket. I try not to make eye contact with them!
Those people in the way that make it impossible to navigate anywhere with a cart and who are lucky that I never actually bring a weapon to the grocery store? (In fact, I'm not allowed to push the cart since my husband is convinced that I can turn that into a weapon.)
It can absolutely be used ad a weapon. Allegedly.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »
Because the thread is about Hebalife and not advertising in general? If you wan't to discuss that then maybe start a new thread.BillMcKay1 wrote: »Alluminati wrote: »Whether or not it causes liver damage, it is still an MLM with annoying salesmen who will say anything to sell their over priced, sub par products. They don't need any fitness training to be advising anyone on health and some misrepresent themselves or outright lie to get sales. Sorry but people need to know this and not get taken in. So while you sit there feeling all scholarly because your debating the health benefits of Herbalife (lol), I'm going to stick to common sense and stay away and advising others to do the same. I don't care if the advice is taken or not but at least I said something.
LOL How is that different from every other product on the market ever? We are bombarded with advertising, sales people and marketing all day every day. Many (most) of them selling sub par products.
It will be interesting to see how Herbalife restructures from a MLM based model to a retail based model. No more recruiting down chain patsies. They will have to sell product to retail customers to make money, which may be hard given their high prices for lower quality products. Who knows, on the straight retail model they are going to have to adopt, their prices may even come down as every container of product doesn't have to send diluted proceeds up-chain.
I have been, in the last 6 months, approached by 3 different Herbalife salespeople. 2 in the grocery store and 1 in front of my kids school. All 3 times I was wearing my gym clothes and had my gym bag. The first one managed to insult me because he asked if I knew where the local gym was (I guess since I was dressed as such) and me, being a polite dummy, told him. He then asked about my workouts and started to go into a spiel about how I could be looking better if I decided to try his products and gave me his card. My Facebook and Instagram are bombarded with this stuff by friends and sadly, family members.
I don't have Avon people waving me down in grocery stores or Pampered Chef people approaching me in the nail salon (although I work with some who do it as a part time and STILL, none have approached me to buy anything). So yeah, there's a difference in the MLM push.
I know right. I was at Costco the other day and like 10 different people tried to push their products on me. Something about try this free sample of tuna on a cracker...pushy I tell you what.
I don't get it.
You know.. Those reps with their sample offers on every corner of the supermarket. I try not to make eye contact with them!
Those people in the way that make it impossible to navigate anywhere with a cart and who are lucky that I never actually bring a weapon to the grocery store? (In fact, I'm not allowed to push the cart since my husband is convinced that I can turn that into a weapon.)
Lol yes, those strategically placed people.
As for herbalife, no i wouldn't use it.. It's way too expensive, too many weird and probably pointless ingredients, i hear it tastes like crap and their sales people are too pushy and needy which is an instant turn off! They also prey on the overweight and desperate, as do all mlm weight loss schemes.
However if random internet folks want to use it and they 'think' it helps them lose weight, and they don't care about the liver damage whispers, then honestly.. I really don't DGAF. I'm certainly not going to waste my time debating back and forth trying to teach them the error of their ways.2 -
As a young thing I answered an ad in the paper for a job, turned out to be an elderly couple selling Herbalife. I'd never heard of it and stupidly went to a thing, one of those rah-rah rallies, where some dude gave me an "herbal drink" in which the herb was ephedra, and I got the hard sell while I was completely high. Fortunately I had no money so couldn't buy in. Nope. I don't like Herbalife.
This is interesting.
About 20 some odd years ago I took this powder-drink product that had in it, and it made my heart feel like it was jumping out of my chest. I wonder if it was herbalife.
My roomate at the time loved it, but after a few times I swore never to touch it again (and I didn't).
Used to be a lot of stuff had ephedra in it, especially weight loss supplements and power shakes and things. Then they banned it because people had heart attacks. Since that experience I'm kind of a freak about supplements or drinks or powders and refuse to take them unless I know exactly what's in them, and no, "proprietary blend" will not cover it.2 -
In another thread, about another MLM protein powder, I posted that Shakeology's ingredients have not been verified by anyone outside Beachbody, so figured I would chime in.
The difference between Trutein and Herbalife, or Optimum Nutrition and Shakeology, is that Trutein and ON are basically protein powder and flavoring, are sold as extra protein to help you build muscle and nothing more, and have a similar price which is pretty standard across the board (give or take). My understanding at least is that it is pretty widely accepted that if you are working out in an effort to build muscle, it is important to get enough protein, and if you struggle to get it in food, a protein powder can help.
Herbalife and Shakeology say they contain all these magical superfood ingredients that will make you lose weight, stop catching colds, clear your skin, and load you full of anti-oxidants that will make you healthier. And because of this they are a bargain at 3, 4, or 5 times the price. They are making unsubstantiated health claims and will not (or cannot) prove that a) those ingredients are present in any measurable amount and b) that those ingredients actually do what they claim. So my read on the situation is that they are Slimfast with a fraudulent label.
Based on that alone, I feel confident saying they are a low-quality, overpriced scam. They might contain a good quality protein powder in them, but why should I even believe that when they are drowning it in woo?
You could make a "meal replacement" shake by blending up your protein powder with some milk, oats, and whatever cheap greens you can find in your supermarket for less money. Or buy the meal replacement shakes they sell in Walmart or Target or the grocery store - at least you'll be getting what you paid for. I might be a little over-passionate about this because I spent more than $1000 over the course of a year on Shakeology and it pisses me off now that I know better. I really wanted to be healthy and natural and smarter than the SAD and was naive enough to fall for that crap
So let me speak in terms of shakeology, since i have much greater insights into their stuff but I feel it can apply to all MLM shakes. Beachbody fully recognizes you have to cut calories. In fact, their shakeology commercials or at least the ones I have seen, all allude to using shakeology to cut calories. Essentially, use shakeology to replace one of your high calorie meals to help cut calories with a potential outcome of losing weight. Now, I do get they play on the fact of superfoods and don't recognize the dosage part of it, which I find a bit ridiculous, but that is marketing and there may be some study that supports that to some standard.
Honestly, Alan Aragon has one of that best arguments against MLM's. And my personal views are in line with that. They are over-hyped and inferior in terms of ingredients. Not this non sense that it's going to cause liver damage.
On a side note, since Herbalife and Beachbody have a lot of other supplements. The bodybuilding industry does the same thing. How many of these protein companies promote BCAAs, pre -, intra and post - workouts, and a plethora of other "muscle building" products? It just makes me laugh.
Well.....why not just reduce the size of the meal instead?
You can't really con people into recruiting their friends and family into selling "reducing the size of your meal".
I think that about sums it up.
Plus the notion that many people believe the shakes have some magic mixed in with protein.
2 -
In another thread, about another MLM protein powder, I posted that Shakeology's ingredients have not been verified by anyone outside Beachbody, so figured I would chime in.
The difference between Trutein and Herbalife, or Optimum Nutrition and Shakeology, is that Trutein and ON are basically protein powder and flavoring, are sold as extra protein to help you build muscle and nothing more, and have a similar price which is pretty standard across the board (give or take). My understanding at least is that it is pretty widely accepted that if you are working out in an effort to build muscle, it is important to get enough protein, and if you struggle to get it in food, a protein powder can help.
Herbalife and Shakeology say they contain all these magical superfood ingredients that will make you lose weight, stop catching colds, clear your skin, and load you full of anti-oxidants that will make you healthier. And because of this they are a bargain at 3, 4, or 5 times the price. They are making unsubstantiated health claims and will not (or cannot) prove that a) those ingredients are present in any measurable amount and b) that those ingredients actually do what they claim. So my read on the situation is that they are Slimfast with a fraudulent label.
Based on that alone, I feel confident saying they are a low-quality, overpriced scam. They might contain a good quality protein powder in them, but why should I even believe that when they are drowning it in woo?
You could make a "meal replacement" shake by blending up your protein powder with some milk, oats, and whatever cheap greens you can find in your supermarket for less money. Or buy the meal replacement shakes they sell in Walmart or Target or the grocery store - at least you'll be getting what you paid for. I might be a little over-passionate about this because I spent more than $1000 over the course of a year on Shakeology and it pisses me off now that I know better. I really wanted to be healthy and natural and smarter than the SAD and was naive enough to fall for that crap
So let me speak in terms of shakeology, since i have much greater insights into their stuff but I feel it can apply to all MLM shakes. Beachbody fully recognizes you have to cut calories. In fact, their shakeology commercials or at least the ones I have seen, all allude to using shakeology to cut calories. Essentially, use shakeology to replace one of your high calorie meals to help cut calories with a potential outcome of losing weight. Now, I do get they play on the fact of superfoods and don't recognize the dosage part of it, which I find a bit ridiculous, but that is marketing and there may be some study that supports that to some standard.
Honestly, Alan Aragon has one of that best arguments against MLM's. And my personal views are in line with that. They are over-hyped and inferior in terms of ingredients. Not this non sense that it's going to cause liver damage.
On a side note, since Herbalife and Beachbody have a lot of other supplements. The bodybuilding industry does the same thing. How many of these protein companies promote BCAAs, pre -, intra and post - workouts, and a plethora of other "muscle building" products? It just makes me laugh.
Well.....why not just reduce the size of the meal instead?
You can't really con people into recruiting their friends and family into selling "reducing the size of your meal".
Do you even MFP?1 -
In another thread, about another MLM protein powder, I posted that Shakeology's ingredients have not been verified by anyone outside Beachbody, so figured I would chime in.
The difference between Trutein and Herbalife, or Optimum Nutrition and Shakeology, is that Trutein and ON are basically protein powder and flavoring, are sold as extra protein to help you build muscle and nothing more, and have a similar price which is pretty standard across the board (give or take). My understanding at least is that it is pretty widely accepted that if you are working out in an effort to build muscle, it is important to get enough protein, and if you struggle to get it in food, a protein powder can help.
Herbalife and Shakeology say they contain all these magical superfood ingredients that will make you lose weight, stop catching colds, clear your skin, and load you full of anti-oxidants that will make you healthier. And because of this they are a bargain at 3, 4, or 5 times the price. They are making unsubstantiated health claims and will not (or cannot) prove that a) those ingredients are present in any measurable amount and b) that those ingredients actually do what they claim. So my read on the situation is that they are Slimfast with a fraudulent label.
Based on that alone, I feel confident saying they are a low-quality, overpriced scam. They might contain a good quality protein powder in them, but why should I even believe that when they are drowning it in woo?
You could make a "meal replacement" shake by blending up your protein powder with some milk, oats, and whatever cheap greens you can find in your supermarket for less money. Or buy the meal replacement shakes they sell in Walmart or Target or the grocery store - at least you'll be getting what you paid for. I might be a little over-passionate about this because I spent more than $1000 over the course of a year on Shakeology and it pisses me off now that I know better. I really wanted to be healthy and natural and smarter than the SAD and was naive enough to fall for that crap
So let me speak in terms of shakeology, since i have much greater insights into their stuff but I feel it can apply to all MLM shakes. Beachbody fully recognizes you have to cut calories. In fact, their shakeology commercials or at least the ones I have seen, all allude to using shakeology to cut calories. Essentially, use shakeology to replace one of your high calorie meals to help cut calories with a potential outcome of losing weight. Now, I do get they play on the fact of superfoods and don't recognize the dosage part of it, which I find a bit ridiculous, but that is marketing and there may be some study that supports that to some standard.
Honestly, Alan Aragon has one of that best arguments against MLM's. And my personal views are in line with that. They are over-hyped and inferior in terms of ingredients. Not this non sense that it's going to cause liver damage.
On a side note, since Herbalife and Beachbody have a lot of other supplements. The bodybuilding industry does the same thing. How many of these protein companies promote BCAAs, pre -, intra and post - workouts, and a plethora of other "muscle building" products? It just makes me laugh.
Well.....why not just reduce the size of the meal instead?
You can't really con people into recruiting their friends and family into selling "reducing the size of your meal".
I think that about sums it up.
Plus the notion that many people believe the shakes have some magic mixed in with protein.
At the cost of them, I would expect gold dust along with rainbow kitten farts.3 -
In another thread, about another MLM protein powder, I posted that Shakeology's ingredients have not been verified by anyone outside Beachbody, so figured I would chime in.
The difference between Trutein and Herbalife, or Optimum Nutrition and Shakeology, is that Trutein and ON are basically protein powder and flavoring, are sold as extra protein to help you build muscle and nothing more, and have a similar price which is pretty standard across the board (give or take). My understanding at least is that it is pretty widely accepted that if you are working out in an effort to build muscle, it is important to get enough protein, and if you struggle to get it in food, a protein powder can help.
Herbalife and Shakeology say they contain all these magical superfood ingredients that will make you lose weight, stop catching colds, clear your skin, and load you full of anti-oxidants that will make you healthier. And because of this they are a bargain at 3, 4, or 5 times the price. They are making unsubstantiated health claims and will not (or cannot) prove that a) those ingredients are present in any measurable amount and b) that those ingredients actually do what they claim. So my read on the situation is that they are Slimfast with a fraudulent label.
Based on that alone, I feel confident saying they are a low-quality, overpriced scam. They might contain a good quality protein powder in them, but why should I even believe that when they are drowning it in woo?
You could make a "meal replacement" shake by blending up your protein powder with some milk, oats, and whatever cheap greens you can find in your supermarket for less money. Or buy the meal replacement shakes they sell in Walmart or Target or the grocery store - at least you'll be getting what you paid for. I might be a little over-passionate about this because I spent more than $1000 over the course of a year on Shakeology and it pisses me off now that I know better. I really wanted to be healthy and natural and smarter than the SAD and was naive enough to fall for that crap
So let me speak in terms of shakeology, since i have much greater insights into their stuff but I feel it can apply to all MLM shakes. Beachbody fully recognizes you have to cut calories. In fact, their shakeology commercials or at least the ones I have seen, all allude to using shakeology to cut calories. Essentially, use shakeology to replace one of your high calorie meals to help cut calories with a potential outcome of losing weight. Now, I do get they play on the fact of superfoods and don't recognize the dosage part of it, which I find a bit ridiculous, but that is marketing and there may be some study that supports that to some standard.
Honestly, Alan Aragon has one of that best arguments against MLM's. And my personal views are in line with that. They are over-hyped and inferior in terms of ingredients. Not this non sense that it's going to cause liver damage.
On a side note, since Herbalife and Beachbody have a lot of other supplements. The bodybuilding industry does the same thing. How many of these protein companies promote BCAAs, pre -, intra and post - workouts, and a plethora of other "muscle building" products? It just makes me laugh.
Well.....why not just reduce the size of the meal instead?
You can't really con people into recruiting their friends and family into selling "reducing the size of your meal".
Do you even MFP?
0 -
last year i joined the herbal life boot camp in the park during the summer period. i really enjoyed them. At the end of the sessions they used to make us form a circle. Then they would ask for volunteers on the product to say how they are feeling. ONe lady whispered hungry. I just found that too funny, and too me that sums the whole thing up. Its not magic its just eating less.
I became friendly with one of the ladies who let me taste her raspberry tea, it was disgusting, so why the heck am i going to even try their expensive shake. I also had my wellness check done and she asked me why i was drinking whey protein it makes you gain weight, and i should drink their soya protein instead. from then on i knew I couldn't trust anything those "coaches" tell me.
When i get fed up of being a decent person I will start selling that shite to make money from vulnerable people6
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