FDA approves weight loss stomach pump device
Replies
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I watched some show where an interviewer was talking to a man that had one of these. The man demonstrated how it worked. It was *baby rhino* gross.1
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That article sounds like they are describing a machine assisted bulimic device
If people are resorting to this...I feel very bad for them
food addiction is real 4 -
JanetYellen wrote: »Horrible. Would teach nothing about eating less or nutrition.skinnyforhi wrote: »It does exactly what it's supposed to do by teaching the patient nothing.
Do you refuse to wear a seatbelt or a bike helmet because a they don't teach you how not to run into things? Do you tell people not to use bandaids because they don't teach you how not to cut yourself?2 -
This is so sad. I think if people are lured in by this kind of wild, quick-fix "solution" they should be required by any responsible medical body to seek psychiatric help first to address their food psych issues. All too often we stray away from the hard work, both mental and physical, when it is all we need to set us free 0
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NorthCascades wrote: »JanetYellen wrote: »Horrible. Would teach nothing about eating less or nutrition.skinnyforhi wrote: »It does exactly what it's supposed to do by teaching the patient nothing.
Do you refuse to wear a seatbelt or a bike helmet because a they don't teach you how not to run into things? Do you tell people not to use bandaids because they don't teach you how not to cut yourself?
That is a horrible analogy. It isn't like people are accidentally ingesting large amounts of food.
"I don't know how it happened, but that whole darn cake just flew into my mouth and I swallowed it by mistake" would be a good analogy to using this device in the same way we use seatbelts and bike helmets
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Seems like it would be pretty easy to keep gaining weight even while using this device--you only lose 30%, and so little incentive to feel any amount of hunger (physical or emotional) if you depend on the device to take care of it for you. If it's a mental issue, you have to fix that or no (voluntary) physical aid is going to really work.
BMI of 35 is pretty darn low to be using something like this...that level should be able to get down near normal weight in a year and they are not likely to be suffering from immediately life-threatening consequences.3 -
I have not been afflicted with a binge disease, or obesity or bulemia, I've never purged.
I just want to quote that old addage here though:
Don't condemn someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes.
Most of us, if we had them, would welcome anything that could intercept the diseases I mentioned above.
If you still condemn and criticize, try to walk two miles in their shoes.
Then come back and tell us how that went and did you learn any compassion? Did you learn about the mind, the inner struggles of the people you think you can speak for?
No one is condemning anyone. We're condemning the process of medically supervised bulimia.
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »skinnyforhi wrote: »It does exactly what it's supposed to do by teaching the patient nothing. From the website: Many patients choose to keep the AspireAssist in place to ensure that they maintain their weight loss...if the AspireAssist is needed to maintain weight loss, it is likely weight regain will occur if therapy is stopped.
It works perfectly!!!
Given the number of people that fail at every other method of weight loss, would this be a horrible thing?
A lifetime of medically assisted binge/purging? Sure could.
If it got them to a healthy weight and kept them there would it be an inherently horrible thing?
Considering the risk for nutrient deficiency it absolutely could.2 -
NorthCascades wrote: »JanetYellen wrote: »Horrible. Would teach nothing about eating less or nutrition.skinnyforhi wrote: »It does exactly what it's supposed to do by teaching the patient nothing.
Do you refuse to wear a seatbelt or a bike helmet because a they don't teach you how not to run into things? Do you tell people not to use bandaids because they don't teach you how not to cut yourself?
Do you run into things on purpose because you have a seatbelt?
Do you deliberately accept blows to the head because you have a helmet?6 -
I'm on the fence.
On one hand, I agree with the general sentiment that this seems extreme.
On the other hand, the evidence that losing weight and keeping it off is far more difficult and complicated than "just stay out of the drive thru" grows and grows seemingly every day. There's evidence that resting metabolic rates can start much lower than expected for the obese and drop precipitously during/after weight loss (far beyond what can simply be attributed to the reduction in mass) and often barely recover, if at all. There's evidence that hormones controlling hunger can start somewhat out of whack for the obese and go completely out of whack during/after weight loss. For those not dealing with those issues, it can be really hard to understand what it's like to have a TDEE that leaves you rapidly gaining weight while eating what both conventional science and the general public would consider a very reasonable amount of calories per day all while your body is telling you to eat more and more and more than that, and really easy to look at a procedure like this and think "how can someone do this to themselves? just eat less!"
Of course there are many behavioral therapies and approaches to diet and exercise that can counteract these issues to a degree, but they still take incredible, sometimes super-human amounts of dedication and effort and motivation and self-deprivation that some people just aren't capable of, even when their lives are literally on the line. That doesn't make them bad people, it just is what it is. Obviously not everyone who is overweight or obese deals with stuff like this, and many people have success in losing weight (though far fewer in keeping it off long-term) without medical interventions. For those than cannot, though, this is just another tool in the toolbox of what should hopefully be last resorts.2 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »JanetYellen wrote: »Horrible. Would teach nothing about eating less or nutrition.skinnyforhi wrote: »It does exactly what it's supposed to do by teaching the patient nothing.
Do you refuse to wear a seatbelt or a bike helmet because a they don't teach you how not to run into things? Do you tell people not to use bandaids because they don't teach you how not to cut yourself?
Do you run into things on purpose because you have a seatbelt?
Do you deliberately accept blows to the head because you have a helmet?
In a way, yes. I would imagine majority of people who cause accidents regularly partake in dangerous driving habits - the accident was simply the one that caught up with them and others.
As to the device, In the face of way too many obesity related deaths, if you think this medically induced bulimia is gross, my recommendation is don't look. One thing I thought, though, is that the users wouldn't operate the device after every meal, but perhaps after a particularly calorific one. Replace that stupid guilt that I never understood with getting rid of the excess food4 -
Have been thinking about this an wondering does this type of purging cause electrolyte imbalances like the usual purging (through vomiting and or laxatives)?Eating disorders (anorexia and bulimia in particular) have the highest death rate amongst all psychiatric disorders.4
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Carlos_421 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »JanetYellen wrote: »Horrible. Would teach nothing about eating less or nutrition.skinnyforhi wrote: »It does exactly what it's supposed to do by teaching the patient nothing.
Do you refuse to wear a seatbelt or a bike helmet because a they don't teach you how not to run into things? Do you tell people not to use bandaids because they don't teach you how not to cut yourself?
Do you run into things on purpose because you have a seatbelt?
Do you deliberately accept blows to the head because you have a helmet?
In a way, yes. I would imagine majority of people who cause accidents regularly partake in dangerous driving habits - the accident was simply the one that caught up with them and others.
I think of wearing a seatbelt, etc., as protecting against other people's reckless driving and just things that happen, not my own driving (which I can control). So I agree with Carlos that the analogy doesn't fit.As to the device, In the face of way too many obesity related deaths, if you think this medically induced bulimia is gross, my recommendation is don't look. One thing I thought, though, is that the users wouldn't operate the device after every meal, but perhaps after a particularly calorific one. Replace that stupid guilt that I never understood with getting rid of the excess food
Bulimia is unhealthy. Does it become just fine if someone isn't actually vomiting? How on earth does one monitor nutrition, and don't the various bodily responses that people worry about (perhaps resulting in IR) still occur? Also, if you can use this, do people become more likely to think that they can eat even more, because they have a way out? Especially as it becomes normalized? Things like that strike me as valid concerns; it's not just that it's disgusting (although it is).3 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »I don't understand why people are worrying about eating disorders. Do they worry about eating disorders for bariatric surgery? This has the same general requirements - must be at a high BMI, must have tried to lose weight through other means, must be in a situation where weight loss is the most healthy thing they can do for themselves. It seems like completely unnecessary worry, people looking for reasons to be angry at this device because they think it's gross without actually being logical about it. In fact, this is just the feeding tube given to anorexic patients in reverse, and without inpatient. Seems like a great tool for someone with BED or other kinds of disordered binge eating.
I think it's gross but I might think differently if I had a BMI of 45 and had been struggling for years to lose weight and knew that if I didn't lose weight I would be in mortal danger very soon. You know what's also gross? Colostomy bags. That doesn't mean they shouldn't exist; it just means that medical intervention is sometimes necessarily gross.
Man, the people on this forum are so judgy and irrational sometimes.
What would be "logical" is educating people and giving them what they need to learn how to eat properly for a lifetime rather than impanting a device which allows them to continue engaging in destructive eating habits yet purge their bodies of the food (which also carries a high likelihood that the device will be overused and the patient could suffer from malnutrition even while binging).
Yes, which is why this is designed to be used in conjunction with nutrition and exercise counseling - which was proven to work in their testing in the past to prevent the weight from coming right back.
There is no likelihood that the person would overuse the device. You know why? Because the device literally has a failsafe in it that only allows it to be used 115 times before being replaced, which comes out to about 1.5 months. If you had bothered to research the thing you're trying to express your opinion on, you would know that....
But how do you know this, as well. It's a legitimate argument. What's so nutritious about having all food purged from your stomach and let alone having no energy to exercise. Geez
ETA: I bet you someone would find a way to abuse this device
How do I know which part? That the device has a failsafe? The results of the study they did on it before it was approved? I can tell you how I know each and every part of my argument, because I read both the articles and the actual description from the FDA about the function of the device. I know that it's designed to be used in conjunction with counseling because that's how it was approved to be used and how the clinical trials were conducted ("Frequent medical visits are also necessary to monitor device use and weight loss and to provide counseling on lifestyle therapies", "The FDA reviewed results from a clinical trial of 111 patients treated with AspireAssist and appropriate lifestyle therapy, and 60 control patients who received only the lifestyle therapy. After one year, patients using AspireAssist lost an average of 12.1 percent of their total body weight compared to 3.6 percent for the control patients." -FDA). I know that it's designed with a failsafe because that's what the FDA approved and what the device is (" The device also has a safety feature that keeps track of the number of times the drain tube is connected to the port and automatically stops working after 115 cycles (approximately five to six weeks of therapy); patients must return for a medical visit to get a replacement part for the device in order to continue the therapy. This safety feature helps ensure patients use the device properly during therapy." -FDA)
It only removes 30% of the food consumed (also backed up by the FDA). Even if the person were to use it over and over to purge their entire meal, it would take 5-10+ uses of it just to get rid of one meal. Say they ate 2 meals a day and each one took 7 uses to purge (a low estimate on both counts) - the absolute longest they could go without seeing a doctor would be 8 days. Trust me, no one with a BMI of 40 is dying over 8 days of very low calories before they see their doctor.
Please, please actually do some research. It'll do you good. At least then when you try to argue you have points to back yourself up. A knee-jerk "eww gross" reaction is so unhelpful, especially when you try to justify it and have nothing.
http://www.fda.gov/newsevents/newsroom/pressannouncements/ucm506625.htm
These things don't make me feel any better about it.
The limited usage only means more frequent replacement for those who abuse it. Do you really think that everyone who uses it will be responsible enough to say "oh, I need to make it last?" Do you really think that every physician prescribing this will say "no, sorry, we can't replace this yet because you're using it too much?" Just like patients hooked on prescription painkillers aren't able to continue getting refills long after the real need for the meds is gone...
And who is saying "eww gross?" I've read a lot of "this is a bad idea" responses but I haven't seen where anyone has said "eww gross."
So what you're saying is...it is as abusable as something else that's already been accepted into our lives as normal medication. Making my point for me
It's no more abusable than any other medication - if you run it down because it may be abused, you're running down a great deal of medication that helps a lot of people because it has potential for abuse. 2 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »JanetYellen wrote: »Horrible. Would teach nothing about eating less or nutrition.skinnyforhi wrote: »It does exactly what it's supposed to do by teaching the patient nothing.
Do you refuse to wear a seatbelt or a bike helmet because a they don't teach you how not to run into things? Do you tell people not to use bandaids because they don't teach you how not to cut yourself?
Do you run into things on purpose because you have a seatbelt?
Do you deliberately accept blows to the head because you have a helmet?
In a way, yes. I would imagine majority of people who cause accidents regularly partake in dangerous driving habits - the accident was simply the one that caught up with them and others.
As to the device, In the face of way too many obesity related deaths, if you think this medically induced bulimia is gross, my recommendation is don't look. One thing I thought, though, is that the users wouldn't operate the device after every meal, but perhaps after a particularly calorific one. Replace that stupid guilt that I never understood with getting rid of the excess food
It's not that I think it is gross, heck I'm a mostly recovered anorexic binge/purge subtype who used to abuse laxatives and also have Crohn's disease so it takes a lot to gross me out. It's the fact that you can just erase overeating just like that. Sure guilt is stupid but if you remove all the negative consequences from overeating and replace it with immediate positive consequences (hey I can overeat and not gain and possibly lose) how will this device help patients in the long term more than conventional weight loss surgery. In the short term it is less risky but both in a way both are medically induced eating disorders though in terms of eating disorders anorexia (without purging) is safer and is a lot less risky than bulimia. The only really good indicator of long term success in weight loss is making it a life style change and dealing with what made you overeat in the first place through hard work in therapy.It's super hard work I get it isn't a quick fix as my relationship with food is still messed up bit much better than it was when I was acutely ill. I'm 40 and have had an ed since I was 10. I was hospitalized at 27 and wasn't in recovery until my 30s until I was able to incorporate what I learnt in therapy into my life. The difference now and then is that I have better coping skills that help dealing with the negative emotions that used to throw me into an instantaneous huge mega binge season which lead to purging which lead to majorly restricting and over exercising which lead to binging.
If used in patients on death's door (which I doubt it will be) it could lengthen their life span a little bit but I just don't see it helping patients once the device is removed as it promotes overeating and I don't see how it can be kept in place long term if the patient continues to overeat because of the negative consequences of purging (sure it is *better* than vomiting as it saves your esophagus and teeth from the effects of stomach acid but there are lots of other negative consequences of such as malnutrition and electrolyte imbalances) If it is so much better than non medically induced purging why don't they implant it into bulimics to lower their mortality as bulimics are at much higher risk of immediate death than someone at bmi 35 with no eating disorder.3 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »I don't understand why people are worrying about eating disorders. Do they worry about eating disorders for bariatric surgery? This has the same general requirements - must be at a high BMI, must have tried to lose weight through other means, must be in a situation where weight loss is the most healthy thing they can do for themselves. It seems like completely unnecessary worry, people looking for reasons to be angry at this device because they think it's gross without actually being logical about it. In fact, this is just the feeding tube given to anorexic patients in reverse, and without inpatient. Seems like a great tool for someone with BED or other kinds of disordered binge eating.
I think it's gross but I might think differently if I had a BMI of 45 and had been struggling for years to lose weight and knew that if I didn't lose weight I would be in mortal danger very soon. You know what's also gross? Colostomy bags. That doesn't mean they shouldn't exist; it just means that medical intervention is sometimes necessarily gross.
Man, the people on this forum are so judgy and irrational sometimes.
What would be "logical" is educating people and giving them what they need to learn how to eat properly for a lifetime rather than impanting a device which allows them to continue engaging in destructive eating habits yet purge their bodies of the food (which also carries a high likelihood that the device will be overused and the patient could suffer from malnutrition even while binging).
Yes, which is why this is designed to be used in conjunction with nutrition and exercise counseling - which was proven to work in their testing in the past to prevent the weight from coming right back.
There is no likelihood that the person would overuse the device. You know why? Because the device literally has a failsafe in it that only allows it to be used 115 times before being replaced, which comes out to about 1.5 months. If you had bothered to research the thing you're trying to express your opinion on, you would know that....
But how do you know this, as well. It's a legitimate argument. What's so nutritious about having all food purged from your stomach and let alone having no energy to exercise. Geez
ETA: I bet you someone would find a way to abuse this device
How do I know which part? That the device has a failsafe? The results of the study they did on it before it was approved? I can tell you how I know each and every part of my argument, because I read both the articles and the actual description from the FDA about the function of the device. I know that it's designed to be used in conjunction with counseling because that's how it was approved to be used and how the clinical trials were conducted ("Frequent medical visits are also necessary to monitor device use and weight loss and to provide counseling on lifestyle therapies", "The FDA reviewed results from a clinical trial of 111 patients treated with AspireAssist and appropriate lifestyle therapy, and 60 control patients who received only the lifestyle therapy. After one year, patients using AspireAssist lost an average of 12.1 percent of their total body weight compared to 3.6 percent for the control patients." -FDA). I know that it's designed with a failsafe because that's what the FDA approved and what the device is (" The device also has a safety feature that keeps track of the number of times the drain tube is connected to the port and automatically stops working after 115 cycles (approximately five to six weeks of therapy); patients must return for a medical visit to get a replacement part for the device in order to continue the therapy. This safety feature helps ensure patients use the device properly during therapy." -FDA)
It only removes 30% of the food consumed (also backed up by the FDA). Even if the person were to use it over and over to purge their entire meal, it would take 5-10+ uses of it just to get rid of one meal. Say they ate 2 meals a day and each one took 7 uses to purge (a low estimate on both counts) - the absolute longest they could go without seeing a doctor would be 8 days. Trust me, no one with a BMI of 40 is dying over 8 days of very low calories before they see their doctor.
Please, please actually do some research. It'll do you good. At least then when you try to argue you have points to back yourself up. A knee-jerk "eww gross" reaction is so unhelpful, especially when you try to justify it and have nothing.
http://www.fda.gov/newsevents/newsroom/pressannouncements/ucm506625.htm
These things don't make me feel any better about it.
The limited usage only means more frequent replacement for those who abuse it. Do you really think that everyone who uses it will be responsible enough to say "oh, I need to make it last?" Do you really think that every physician prescribing this will say "no, sorry, we can't replace this yet because you're using it too much?" Just like patients hooked on prescription painkillers aren't able to continue getting refills long after the real need for the meds is gone...
And who is saying "eww gross?" I've read a lot of "this is a bad idea" responses but I haven't seen where anyone has said "eww gross."
So what you're saying is...it is as abusable as something else that's already been accepted into our lives as normal medication. Making my point for me It's no more abusable than any other medication - if you run it down because it may be abused, you're running down a great deal of medication that helps a lot of people because it has potential for abuse.
Incomparable.
There is a legitimate need for medications as there are no real alternatives. I can't alter my eating/lifestyle to control the pain of [insert ailment here (cancer, back injury, surgery)]. If it were possible to overcome severe pain of injury/disease by eating responsibly I would absolutely say that we shouldn't be giving people addictive pain medications instead of teaching them how to eat. But that's not an option!
Those using the stomach pump COULD achieve the same results (or better) by simply eating less as they'll achieve by using the device. Sure, they haven't (because they haven't implemented a proper diet or haven't stuck with it) but they COULD.6 -
I don't understand why people are worrying about eating disorders. Do they worry about eating disorders for bariatric surgery? This has the same general requirements - must be at a high BMI, must have tried to lose weight through other means, must be in a situation where weight loss is the most healthy thing they can do for themselves. It seems like completely unnecessary worry, people looking for reasons to be angry at this device because they think it's gross without actually being logical about it. In fact, this is just the feeding tube given to anorexic patients in reverse, and without inpatient. Seems like a great tool for someone with BED or other kinds of disordered binge eating.
I think it's gross but I might think differently if I had a BMI of 45 and had been struggling for years to lose weight and knew that if I didn't lose weight I would be in mortal danger very soon. You know what's also gross? Colostomy bags. That doesn't mean they shouldn't exist; it just means that medical intervention is sometimes necessarily gross.
Man, the people on this forum are so judgy and irrational sometimes.
I don't think you can get it if you have an eating disorder. "AspireAssist device is not meant for anyone with an eating disorder" Also, no responsible surgeon will go bariatric on someone with an eating disorder. Eating disorders mess up more than just your weight, your vitals can get all out of wack and make surgery much riskier.1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Have been thinking about this an wondering does this type of purging cause electrolyte imbalances like the usual purging (through vomiting and or laxatives)?Eating disorders (anorexia and bulimia in particular) have the highest death rate amongst all psychiatric disorders.
I'm sure there is the potential for it and that likely is the reasoning behind making it inoperable after so many uses without a doctor visit.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »I don't understand why people are worrying about eating disorders. Do they worry about eating disorders for bariatric surgery? This has the same general requirements - must be at a high BMI, must have tried to lose weight through other means, must be in a situation where weight loss is the most healthy thing they can do for themselves. It seems like completely unnecessary worry, people looking for reasons to be angry at this device because they think it's gross without actually being logical about it. In fact, this is just the feeding tube given to anorexic patients in reverse, and without inpatient. Seems like a great tool for someone with BED or other kinds of disordered binge eating.
I think it's gross but I might think differently if I had a BMI of 45 and had been struggling for years to lose weight and knew that if I didn't lose weight I would be in mortal danger very soon. You know what's also gross? Colostomy bags. That doesn't mean they shouldn't exist; it just means that medical intervention is sometimes necessarily gross.
Man, the people on this forum are so judgy and irrational sometimes.
What would be "logical" is educating people and giving them what they need to learn how to eat properly for a lifetime rather than impanting a device which allows them to continue engaging in destructive eating habits yet purge their bodies of the food (which also carries a high likelihood that the device will be overused and the patient could suffer from malnutrition even while binging).
Yes, which is why this is designed to be used in conjunction with nutrition and exercise counseling - which was proven to work in their testing in the past to prevent the weight from coming right back.
There is no likelihood that the person would overuse the device. You know why? Because the device literally has a failsafe in it that only allows it to be used 115 times before being replaced, which comes out to about 1.5 months. If you had bothered to research the thing you're trying to express your opinion on, you would know that....
But how do you know this, as well. It's a legitimate argument. What's so nutritious about having all food purged from your stomach and let alone having no energy to exercise. Geez
ETA: I bet you someone would find a way to abuse this device
How do I know which part? That the device has a failsafe? The results of the study they did on it before it was approved? I can tell you how I know each and every part of my argument, because I read both the articles and the actual description from the FDA about the function of the device. I know that it's designed to be used in conjunction with counseling because that's how it was approved to be used and how the clinical trials were conducted ("Frequent medical visits are also necessary to monitor device use and weight loss and to provide counseling on lifestyle therapies", "The FDA reviewed results from a clinical trial of 111 patients treated with AspireAssist and appropriate lifestyle therapy, and 60 control patients who received only the lifestyle therapy. After one year, patients using AspireAssist lost an average of 12.1 percent of their total body weight compared to 3.6 percent for the control patients." -FDA). I know that it's designed with a failsafe because that's what the FDA approved and what the device is (" The device also has a safety feature that keeps track of the number of times the drain tube is connected to the port and automatically stops working after 115 cycles (approximately five to six weeks of therapy); patients must return for a medical visit to get a replacement part for the device in order to continue the therapy. This safety feature helps ensure patients use the device properly during therapy." -FDA)
It only removes 30% of the food consumed (also backed up by the FDA). Even if the person were to use it over and over to purge their entire meal, it would take 5-10+ uses of it just to get rid of one meal. Say they ate 2 meals a day and each one took 7 uses to purge (a low estimate on both counts) - the absolute longest they could go without seeing a doctor would be 8 days. Trust me, no one with a BMI of 40 is dying over 8 days of very low calories before they see their doctor.
Please, please actually do some research. It'll do you good. At least then when you try to argue you have points to back yourself up. A knee-jerk "eww gross" reaction is so unhelpful, especially when you try to justify it and have nothing.
http://www.fda.gov/newsevents/newsroom/pressannouncements/ucm506625.htm
These things don't make me feel any better about it.
The limited usage only means more frequent replacement for those who abuse it. Do you really think that everyone who uses it will be responsible enough to say "oh, I need to make it last?" Do you really think that every physician prescribing this will say "no, sorry, we can't replace this yet because you're using it too much?" Just like patients hooked on prescription painkillers aren't able to continue getting refills long after the real need for the meds is gone...
And who is saying "eww gross?" I've read a lot of "this is a bad idea" responses but I haven't seen where anyone has said "eww gross."
So what you're saying is...it is as abusable as something else that's already been accepted into our lives as normal medication. Making my point for me It's no more abusable than any other medication - if you run it down because it may be abused, you're running down a great deal of medication that helps a lot of people because it has potential for abuse.
Incomparable.
There is a legitimate need for medications as there are no real alternatives. I can't alter my eating/lifestyle to control the pain of [insert ailment here (cancer, back injury, surgery)]. If it were possible to overcome severe pain of injury/disease by eating responsibly I would absolutely say that we shouldn't be giving people addictive pain medications instead of teaching them how to eat. But that's not an option!
Those using the stomach pump COULD achieve the same results (or better) by simply eating less as they'll achieve by using the device. Sure, they haven't (because they haven't implemented a proper diet or haven't stuck with it) but they COULD.
Could they? Are you sure?2 -
@Mentali they usually don't give anorexics feeding tubes. They only give it too you if you are at immediate risk of death (like you'll die tomorrow without it). Most ed programs have a no feeding tube policy as pumping calories into someone and getting them to gain weight without eating just leads to extremely quick weight loss when it is removed, misuse of it if it is not an ng tube, the patient disconnecting it when not in view of doctors, etc.0
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Omg I didn't see the comparison between the stomach pump and colostomy bags. That makes me angry. There is no comparison between the two. As someone who has a disease that usually ends up needing one and probably will end up with a colostomy or an ileostomy I can tell you they don't use those willy nilly. It is usually a last result where there is no other options or you will die. It is not compatible at all.4
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »I don't understand why people are worrying about eating disorders. Do they worry about eating disorders for bariatric surgery? This has the same general requirements - must be at a high BMI, must have tried to lose weight through other means, must be in a situation where weight loss is the most healthy thing they can do for themselves. It seems like completely unnecessary worry, people looking for reasons to be angry at this device because they think it's gross without actually being logical about it. In fact, this is just the feeding tube given to anorexic patients in reverse, and without inpatient. Seems like a great tool for someone with BED or other kinds of disordered binge eating.
I think it's gross but I might think differently if I had a BMI of 45 and had been struggling for years to lose weight and knew that if I didn't lose weight I would be in mortal danger very soon. You know what's also gross? Colostomy bags. That doesn't mean they shouldn't exist; it just means that medical intervention is sometimes necessarily gross.
Man, the people on this forum are so judgy and irrational sometimes.
What would be "logical" is educating people and giving them what they need to learn how to eat properly for a lifetime rather than impanting a device which allows them to continue engaging in destructive eating habits yet purge their bodies of the food (which also carries a high likelihood that the device will be overused and the patient could suffer from malnutrition even while binging).
Yes, which is why this is designed to be used in conjunction with nutrition and exercise counseling - which was proven to work in their testing in the past to prevent the weight from coming right back.
There is no likelihood that the person would overuse the device. You know why? Because the device literally has a failsafe in it that only allows it to be used 115 times before being replaced, which comes out to about 1.5 months. If you had bothered to research the thing you're trying to express your opinion on, you would know that....
But how do you know this, as well. It's a legitimate argument. What's so nutritious about having all food purged from your stomach and let alone having no energy to exercise. Geez
ETA: I bet you someone would find a way to abuse this device
How do I know which part? That the device has a failsafe? The results of the study they did on it before it was approved? I can tell you how I know each and every part of my argument, because I read both the articles and the actual description from the FDA about the function of the device. I know that it's designed to be used in conjunction with counseling because that's how it was approved to be used and how the clinical trials were conducted ("Frequent medical visits are also necessary to monitor device use and weight loss and to provide counseling on lifestyle therapies", "The FDA reviewed results from a clinical trial of 111 patients treated with AspireAssist and appropriate lifestyle therapy, and 60 control patients who received only the lifestyle therapy. After one year, patients using AspireAssist lost an average of 12.1 percent of their total body weight compared to 3.6 percent for the control patients." -FDA). I know that it's designed with a failsafe because that's what the FDA approved and what the device is (" The device also has a safety feature that keeps track of the number of times the drain tube is connected to the port and automatically stops working after 115 cycles (approximately five to six weeks of therapy); patients must return for a medical visit to get a replacement part for the device in order to continue the therapy. This safety feature helps ensure patients use the device properly during therapy." -FDA)
It only removes 30% of the food consumed (also backed up by the FDA). Even if the person were to use it over and over to purge their entire meal, it would take 5-10+ uses of it just to get rid of one meal. Say they ate 2 meals a day and each one took 7 uses to purge (a low estimate on both counts) - the absolute longest they could go without seeing a doctor would be 8 days. Trust me, no one with a BMI of 40 is dying over 8 days of very low calories before they see their doctor.
Please, please actually do some research. It'll do you good. At least then when you try to argue you have points to back yourself up. A knee-jerk "eww gross" reaction is so unhelpful, especially when you try to justify it and have nothing.
http://www.fda.gov/newsevents/newsroom/pressannouncements/ucm506625.htm
These things don't make me feel any better about it.
The limited usage only means more frequent replacement for those who abuse it. Do you really think that everyone who uses it will be responsible enough to say "oh, I need to make it last?" Do you really think that every physician prescribing this will say "no, sorry, we can't replace this yet because you're using it too much?" Just like patients hooked on prescription painkillers aren't able to continue getting refills long after the real need for the meds is gone...
And who is saying "eww gross?" I've read a lot of "this is a bad idea" responses but I haven't seen where anyone has said "eww gross."
So what you're saying is...it is as abusable as something else that's already been accepted into our lives as normal medication. Making my point for me It's no more abusable than any other medication - if you run it down because it may be abused, you're running down a great deal of medication that helps a lot of people because it has potential for abuse.
Incomparable.
There is a legitimate need for medications as there are no real alternatives. I can't alter my eating/lifestyle to control the pain of [insert ailment here (cancer, back injury, surgery)]. If it were possible to overcome severe pain of injury/disease by eating responsibly I would absolutely say that we shouldn't be giving people addictive pain medications instead of teaching them how to eat. But that's not an option!
Those using the stomach pump COULD achieve the same results (or better) by simply eating less as they'll achieve by using the device. Sure, they haven't (because they haven't implemented a proper diet or haven't stuck with it) but they COULD.
Could they? Are you sure?
Considering the laws of thermodynamics, yeah, I'm pretty sure. If they ate fewer calories than they burned they would lose the weight just the same as if they drained the calories back out of their stomach.2 -
I am considered morbidly obese. My BMI is 40.9. Would I use this product? Probably not. At least not at this point in my life. But for those of you bashing it, and saying oh how it's better/free/blah blah blah to just lose weight....I'm here to tell you it is NOT THAT EASY. Yes, people do it every day. I know it's not easy. I know it takes dedication. But damn it, do you think we like being fat? Don't you think we want to ride roller coasters with our kids? Or take a flight for vacation? My god. BEING FAT SUCKS. Yes, I know I'm in control of what I put in my body. THAT DOESN'T MAKE THIS JOURNEY ANY EASIER. We aren't out for a quick fix. I know what healthy portions are. We just want to be NORMAL.
The struggle is real. And until you have lived it, SHUT UP.0 -
I am considered morbidly obese. My BMI is 40.9. Would I use this product? Probably not. At least not at this point in my life. But for those of you bashing it, and saying oh how it's better/free/blah blah blah to just lose weight....I'm here to tell you it is NOT THAT EASY. Yes, people do it every day. I know it's not easy. I know it takes dedication. But damn it, do you think we like being fat? Don't you think we want to ride roller coasters with our kids? Or take a flight for vacation? My god. BEING FAT SUCKS. Yes, I know I'm in control of what I put in my body. THAT DOESN'T MAKE THIS JOURNEY ANY EASIER. We aren't out for a quick fix. I know what healthy portions are. We just want to be NORMAL.
The struggle is real. And until you have lived it, SHUT UP.
I think pretty much everyone here knows the struggle is hard but telling us to shut up is rude 11 -
No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.-2
-
I am considered morbidly obese. My BMI is 40.9. Would I use this product? Probably not. At least not at this point in my life. But for those of you bashing it, and saying oh how it's better/free/blah blah blah to just lose weight....I'm here to tell you it is NOT THAT EASY. Yes, people do it every day. I know it's not easy. I know it takes dedication. But damn it, do you think we like being fat? Don't you think we want to ride roller coasters with our kids? Or take a flight for vacation? My god. BEING FAT SUCKS. Yes, I know I'm in control of what I put in my body. THAT DOESN'T MAKE THIS JOURNEY ANY EASIER. We aren't out for a quick fix. I know what healthy portions are. We just want to be NORMAL.
The struggle is real. And until you have lived it, SHUT UP.
Do you know where you are? Former 44.3 bmi, here. You seem to be seeing an outcry from "thin privilege" (which doesn't exist, by the way) when it's mainly people who know how to get fat and how to lose the weight because we've lived the struggle.8 -
Hooray, a bulimia device! I hate thinking of how much food will be gorged and then wasted.
1 -
queenliz99 wrote: »I am considered morbidly obese. My BMI is 40.9. Would I use this product? Probably not. At least not at this point in my life. But for those of you bashing it, and saying oh how it's better/free/blah blah blah to just lose weight....I'm here to tell you it is NOT THAT EASY. Yes, people do it every day. I know it's not easy. I know it takes dedication. But damn it, do you think we like being fat? Don't you think we want to ride roller coasters with our kids? Or take a flight for vacation? My god. BEING FAT SUCKS. Yes, I know I'm in control of what I put in my body. THAT DOESN'T MAKE THIS JOURNEY ANY EASIER. We aren't out for a quick fix. I know what healthy portions are. We just want to be NORMAL.
The struggle is real. And until you have lived it, SHUT UP.
I think pretty much everyone here knows the struggle is hard but telling us to shut up is rude
Exactly this.3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »queenliz99 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »I don't understand why people are worrying about eating disorders. Do they worry about eating disorders for bariatric surgery? This has the same general requirements - must be at a high BMI, must have tried to lose weight through other means, must be in a situation where weight loss is the most healthy thing they can do for themselves. It seems like completely unnecessary worry, people looking for reasons to be angry at this device because they think it's gross without actually being logical about it. In fact, this is just the feeding tube given to anorexic patients in reverse, and without inpatient. Seems like a great tool for someone with BED or other kinds of disordered binge eating.
I think it's gross but I might think differently if I had a BMI of 45 and had been struggling for years to lose weight and knew that if I didn't lose weight I would be in mortal danger very soon. You know what's also gross? Colostomy bags. That doesn't mean they shouldn't exist; it just means that medical intervention is sometimes necessarily gross.
Man, the people on this forum are so judgy and irrational sometimes.
What would be "logical" is educating people and giving them what they need to learn how to eat properly for a lifetime rather than impanting a device which allows them to continue engaging in destructive eating habits yet purge their bodies of the food (which also carries a high likelihood that the device will be overused and the patient could suffer from malnutrition even while binging).
Yes, which is why this is designed to be used in conjunction with nutrition and exercise counseling - which was proven to work in their testing in the past to prevent the weight from coming right back.
There is no likelihood that the person would overuse the device. You know why? Because the device literally has a failsafe in it that only allows it to be used 115 times before being replaced, which comes out to about 1.5 months. If you had bothered to research the thing you're trying to express your opinion on, you would know that....
But how do you know this, as well. It's a legitimate argument. What's so nutritious about having all food purged from your stomach and let alone having no energy to exercise. Geez
ETA: I bet you someone would find a way to abuse this device
How do I know which part? That the device has a failsafe? The results of the study they did on it before it was approved? I can tell you how I know each and every part of my argument, because I read both the articles and the actual description from the FDA about the function of the device. I know that it's designed to be used in conjunction with counseling because that's how it was approved to be used and how the clinical trials were conducted ("Frequent medical visits are also necessary to monitor device use and weight loss and to provide counseling on lifestyle therapies", "The FDA reviewed results from a clinical trial of 111 patients treated with AspireAssist and appropriate lifestyle therapy, and 60 control patients who received only the lifestyle therapy. After one year, patients using AspireAssist lost an average of 12.1 percent of their total body weight compared to 3.6 percent for the control patients." -FDA). I know that it's designed with a failsafe because that's what the FDA approved and what the device is (" The device also has a safety feature that keeps track of the number of times the drain tube is connected to the port and automatically stops working after 115 cycles (approximately five to six weeks of therapy); patients must return for a medical visit to get a replacement part for the device in order to continue the therapy. This safety feature helps ensure patients use the device properly during therapy." -FDA)
It only removes 30% of the food consumed (also backed up by the FDA). Even if the person were to use it over and over to purge their entire meal, it would take 5-10+ uses of it just to get rid of one meal. Say they ate 2 meals a day and each one took 7 uses to purge (a low estimate on both counts) - the absolute longest they could go without seeing a doctor would be 8 days. Trust me, no one with a BMI of 40 is dying over 8 days of very low calories before they see their doctor.
Please, please actually do some research. It'll do you good. At least then when you try to argue you have points to back yourself up. A knee-jerk "eww gross" reaction is so unhelpful, especially when you try to justify it and have nothing.
http://www.fda.gov/newsevents/newsroom/pressannouncements/ucm506625.htm
These things don't make me feel any better about it.
The limited usage only means more frequent replacement for those who abuse it. Do you really think that everyone who uses it will be responsible enough to say "oh, I need to make it last?" Do you really think that every physician prescribing this will say "no, sorry, we can't replace this yet because you're using it too much?" Just like patients hooked on prescription painkillers aren't able to continue getting refills long after the real need for the meds is gone...
And who is saying "eww gross?" I've read a lot of "this is a bad idea" responses but I haven't seen where anyone has said "eww gross."
So what you're saying is...it is as abusable as something else that's already been accepted into our lives as normal medication. Making my point for me It's no more abusable than any other medication - if you run it down because it may be abused, you're running down a great deal of medication that helps a lot of people because it has potential for abuse.
Incomparable.
There is a legitimate need for medications as there are no real alternatives. I can't alter my eating/lifestyle to control the pain of [insert ailment here (cancer, back injury, surgery)]. If it were possible to overcome severe pain of injury/disease by eating responsibly I would absolutely say that we shouldn't be giving people addictive pain medications instead of teaching them how to eat. But that's not an option!
Those using the stomach pump COULD achieve the same results (or better) by simply eating less as they'll achieve by using the device. Sure, they haven't (because they haven't implemented a proper diet or haven't stuck with it) but they COULD.
Could they? Are you sure?
The device works by reducing calories from a meal by about 30%. So yes, you could eat 30% less and get the same effect.3 -
No it's not. All the people on here saying there is no reason for people to be obese. They just need to put down the fork. If it were that easy, there would be no obese people in the world. So until you have lived it, you have no idea what you are talking about...therefor....SHUT UP about it.
Read these
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10300359/most-helpful-posts-success-stories-must-reads#latest3
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