how much protein is too much protein?
Replies
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janejellyroll wrote: »ashleyShades wrote: »Fluffy2Fit2Shredded wrote: »I've done 1g of protein per pound of my weight. But I'm lifting pretty much daily pretty aggressively to maintain and try and build muscle while losing fat also. I was 235lb 35% body fat and in 6mo got it down to 174 13% body fat. I take daily protein shakes to meet protein needs since my goal is to build muscle and lean mass while losing fat. Be sure to look up the harmful affects of too much whey or casein protein on your liver, kidney, and body in general due to over consumption. Everyone's body is different but good to know if you plan, or currently take protein shakes regularly. I know someone who's experienced this from daily usage, got ill, had kidney damage and it was attributed to daily high usage of his whey and casein protein. He then switched to various vegan/plant based proteins. Ive done the same.
I've tried a vegan one before and it was so gritty I couldn't deal haha
Just like non-vegan protein powders, the consistency/texture of vegan ones can vary. I've had several non-gritty vegan protein powders over the years, along with some that I didn't care for at all.
It was the Vega brand and I have liked other products of theirs, just not the one I tried. I heard shakeology is good, but I'm not buying into that pyramid scheme hahahaha0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »The RDA for adequate protein for most adults is 0.8 grams per kilogram of ideal weight. That's about 46 grams of protein per day for non-pregnant, non-lactating women and 56 grams for men.
Dietary Reference Intakes: Macronutrients
The recommendation I've seen for optimal protein (especially if body building or losing weight) is 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass or 0.8 grams per pound of your ideal weight (middle of normal BMI).
Personally, I aim for about 70 grams per day which falls between adequate and optimal but works for me.
that goal per KG is for a sedentary adult eating maintenance. If you workout or are in a deficit you required more, much more! so you don't risk a large % of your loss coming from lean muscle.
No, it's for 97-98% of everybody in each group. 56 grams would be adequate for 97-98% of all males, likely including most non-professional bodybuilders and dieters.
It's good to get a bit more than that but there's no reason to go overboard.
Since when are any bodybuilders sedentary? And since when are dieters eating at maintenance?
This is just wrong, plain and simple.
The point is that bodybuilders aren't sedentary and dieters aren't eating at maintenance. They are part of the 97-98% of everybody and the AI (including those groups) is 46 grams of protein per day for non-pregnant, non-lactating women and 56 grams for men. A bit more protein is good but the given AI amount of protein is adequate. Not optimal, but adequate. Optimal is closer to 0.8 grams of protein per pound of ideal body weight.
Broscience keeps pushing the recommended amount of protein up and up and up.
MFP used to have a default of 15% for protein but bumped that up to 20% because of studies showing that some extra protein could be beneficial in a deficit.
Extra protein can be useful but don't stress yourself out trying to reach a high protein goal that just doesn't work with your way of eating. If you are having to reach for a protein supplement to meet your goal, it might be time to reevaluate your goal.1 -
ashleyShades wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »ashleyShades wrote: »Fluffy2Fit2Shredded wrote: »I've done 1g of protein per pound of my weight. But I'm lifting pretty much daily pretty aggressively to maintain and try and build muscle while losing fat also. I was 235lb 35% body fat and in 6mo got it down to 174 13% body fat. I take daily protein shakes to meet protein needs since my goal is to build muscle and lean mass while losing fat. Be sure to look up the harmful affects of too much whey or casein protein on your liver, kidney, and body in general due to over consumption. Everyone's body is different but good to know if you plan, or currently take protein shakes regularly. I know someone who's experienced this from daily usage, got ill, had kidney damage and it was attributed to daily high usage of his whey and casein protein. He then switched to various vegan/plant based proteins. Ive done the same.
I've tried a vegan one before and it was so gritty I couldn't deal haha
Just like non-vegan protein powders, the consistency/texture of vegan ones can vary. I've had several non-gritty vegan protein powders over the years, along with some that I didn't care for at all.
It was the Vega brand and I have liked other products of theirs, just not the one I tried. I heard shakeology is good, but I'm not buying into that pyramid scheme hahahaha
Stick with whey or casein... they are the most proven types of protein powders pending you cant get it from food.0 -
ashleyShades wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »ashleyShades wrote: »Fluffy2Fit2Shredded wrote: »I've done 1g of protein per pound of my weight. But I'm lifting pretty much daily pretty aggressively to maintain and try and build muscle while losing fat also. I was 235lb 35% body fat and in 6mo got it down to 174 13% body fat. I take daily protein shakes to meet protein needs since my goal is to build muscle and lean mass while losing fat. Be sure to look up the harmful affects of too much whey or casein protein on your liver, kidney, and body in general due to over consumption. Everyone's body is different but good to know if you plan, or currently take protein shakes regularly. I know someone who's experienced this from daily usage, got ill, had kidney damage and it was attributed to daily high usage of his whey and casein protein. He then switched to various vegan/plant based proteins. Ive done the same.
I've tried a vegan one before and it was so gritty I couldn't deal haha
Just like non-vegan protein powders, the consistency/texture of vegan ones can vary. I've had several non-gritty vegan protein powders over the years, along with some that I didn't care for at all.
It was the Vega brand and I have liked other products of theirs, just not the one I tried. I heard shakeology is good, but I'm not buying into that pyramid scheme hahahaha
I was disappointed in the Vega one too, for the same reason.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »ashleyShades wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »ashleyShades wrote: »Fluffy2Fit2Shredded wrote: »I've done 1g of protein per pound of my weight. But I'm lifting pretty much daily pretty aggressively to maintain and try and build muscle while losing fat also. I was 235lb 35% body fat and in 6mo got it down to 174 13% body fat. I take daily protein shakes to meet protein needs since my goal is to build muscle and lean mass while losing fat. Be sure to look up the harmful affects of too much whey or casein protein on your liver, kidney, and body in general due to over consumption. Everyone's body is different but good to know if you plan, or currently take protein shakes regularly. I know someone who's experienced this from daily usage, got ill, had kidney damage and it was attributed to daily high usage of his whey and casein protein. He then switched to various vegan/plant based proteins. Ive done the same.
I've tried a vegan one before and it was so gritty I couldn't deal haha
Just like non-vegan protein powders, the consistency/texture of vegan ones can vary. I've had several non-gritty vegan protein powders over the years, along with some that I didn't care for at all.
It was the Vega brand and I have liked other products of theirs, just not the one I tried. I heard shakeology is good, but I'm not buying into that pyramid scheme hahahaha
I was disappointed in the Vega one too, for the same reason.
I like their pre workouts a lot0 -
Can anyone recommend a good brand?0
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I have been researching amounts of protein recommended & it certainly varies... 0.36 to 1.0g per lb of body weight, with some sources saying to base that on your ideal weight, others not. Sedentary vs lifting heavy also warrants an adjustment, according to the sources that I can find. I am a 5'5" woman with ideal body weight of 125lbs getting ready to start on a heavy lifting program and also do aerobic exercise 4-5 days/week. I am guessing that 80-90g protein will be adequate. I also understand that eating more than 60g of protein at a time can cause the body to treat the protein more like a carb as far as energy sources (vs building blocks for muscle) go. Having protein within 2 hours of exercise is supposed to be a good idea. And that is all I know or think I know about protein.
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ashleyShades wrote: »Can anyone recommend a good brand?
Unfortunately, it's a very subjective thing. Below are the ones I like:- Dymatize
- EAS
- Muscle Milk
- Pure Protein
- Premium Protein
- Quest
ON and Trutein tend to be very popular.1 -
KetoneKaren wrote: »I have been researching amounts of protein recommended & it certainly varies... 0.36 to 1.0g per lb of body weight, with some sources saying to base that on your ideal weight, others not. Sedentary vs lifting heavy also warrants an adjustment, according to the sources that I can find. I am a 5'5" woman with ideal body weight of 125lbs getting ready to start on a heavy lifting program and also do aerobic exercise 4-5 days/week. I am guessing that 80-90g protein will be adequate. I also understand that eating more than 60g of protein at a time can cause the body to treat the protein more like a carb as far as energy sources (vs building blocks for muscle) go. Having protein within 2 hours of exercise is supposed to be a good idea. And that is all I know or think I know about protein.
Where did you read this nonsense? Treat the protein more like a carb? What?
1. Yes, 80-90g is enough for an ideal weight of 125lbs. The suggestion of 0.8-1g is per lb of LBM.
2. Eating more than 60g of protein will not cause the body to "treat protein more like a carb". The body has very limited capacity for storing carbohydrates so it is used first of all the macronutrients. Fat is broken down into fatty acids which goes through the blood and is used for energy. Excess is stored in bundles called triglycerides and stored in fat cells which is virtually limitless and why humans get fat. Protein is broken down into amino acids and used to build new proteins with specific functions like catalyzing chemical reactions or facilitating communication between different cells or facilitating transport of molecules. Only when there is a shortage of fats or carbohydrates proteins can also yield energy. Through a process called gluconeogensis (GNG) protein is converted to glucose. However, GNG is a slow process and the rate doesn't change much even under a wide range of conditions. It's a process the body regulates tightly for increasing blood sugar. It's stimulated by hormones including glucagon which prevents low blood sugar. GNG produces glucose slowly and at a steady rate. So eating a lot of protein at any given time will not make the body use it like a carbohydrate. UNLESS you have had virtually no carbohydrates in your diet. Then GNG will be responsible for nearly all glucose production (such as when fasting for 36 hours+)
3. Ingesting protein near time of exercise is a good idea because it inhibits muscle protein breakdown and inhibits catabolism. And stimulates net muscle protein accretion.
4. What you know about protein is inaccurate.
Sources:
http://www.ketotic.org/2012/08/if-you-eat-excess-protein-does-it-turn.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4008809/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2897177/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4050641/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4258944/1 -
Thanks!0
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@cwang125
This paragraph from the last article you were so kind to provide a link to says:
"People on high-protein diets are advised to choose their source of protein very carefully (i.e. emphasize the use of high-quality protein sources from plant origin). Many protein-rich foods of animal origin (e.g. red meats, eggs and dairy products) also contain high levels of saturated fats and cholesterol. This may put consumers of high-protein diets at higher risk for heart disease, hyperlipidemia and hypercholesterolemia [87]. Healthier proteins from vegetables (soy protein, beans, tofu, seitan or nuts) or fish could be a valuable alternative. Finally, all excess protein will eventually be converted to glucose (via gluconeogenesis) or ketone bodies [88, 89]. This may also explain the increased gluconeogenesis in response to a high-protein diet, as described above. In a state of low energy demand, these metabolites will be stored as glycogen and fat, which is undesirable if weight loss is the goal. Along these lines, weight loss can only be achieved by establishing a negative calorie balance, though this may be more tenable on a high-protein diet."
Another of the articles emphasized that ingesting more than 30g of high quality protein per meal provided no further advantage in preventing or slowing age-related sarcopenia.
What I am taking from all of this is that protein is used to yield energy only when there isn't enough fat or glycogen, but if you are eating too many calories, excess protein in the diet is going to be metabolized into components that will eventually be used for energy (ketones & glycogen).
Is that more accurate?
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It means if you're eating roughly 3 meals a day taking in excess of 90g per day derives no additional benefit in preventing loss of muscle tissue.
If you do intense exercise you can derive benefit by eating a little bit more protein to inhibit muscle catabolism and help with muscle protein synthesis.
Dietary carbohydrates fall into two categories: simple carbohydrates, or sugars, and complex carbohydrates, or starch and fiber. Most of the simple carbohydrates in the American diet come from sugar, or sucrose, and high-fructose corn syrup, used to sweeten a wide variety of foods. Fruit juices also contribute simple sugars. Whole fruit contains simple sugars, but also contains fiber, which helps slow down the digestion of glucose. All carbohydrates supply the body with glucose, which is used for immediate energy needs and stored as glycogen in the liver and muscle cells.
Your body digests simple sugars and refined carbohydrates such as white rice and white flour rapidly, causing a spike in blood glucose. This causes the pancreas to release more insulin. When your body has more glucose than it needs for energy and has reached its storage capacity for glycogen, the increased insulin prompts the liver to convert glucose into triglycerides, which are then transported to fat cells. Between meals, your hormones release triglycerides for energy. If you’re eating more calories than your body needs, your body can store too much triglycerides (fat).
In short, when you eat carbs the body stores it in your muscles and the liver as glycogen. This is what is used rapidly during physical activity. The body stores 1-2% of it in your muscles and the rest of it in your liver. Excess gets stored in adipose tissue as fat.
Sorry this is a long explanation.
If you are intaking very little carbohydrates your body goes into a state of dietary ketosis which utilizes fat to produce ketones. Protein is also used to create glucose but this happens slowly so people who are ketotic have low levels of insulin. High levels of insulin inhibits lipolysis, the oxidation of fat. This is why ketogenic diets are so efficient for fat loss.1 -
@cwang125 No apologies, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I guess I am still stuck at "what happens with excess protein" and what I am wondering is if there is a difference in how it is metabolized in a calorie deficit or calorie homeostasis vs calorie excess. I probably wasn't clear.0
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I back it down if I notice my pee starting to turn cloudy. This is essentially the kidneys filtering out protein that your body has no need for, and it's never been a set in stone number for me. When I was lifting heavy, I was eating upward of 260g per day and never experienced this. Now that I am lifting precisely nothing (yeah, I got lazy as hell), I start to see it if I consume more than about 120g per day.
I've played with it a bit, and found that on weeks where I end up doing a lot of manual labor at work, I can increase it into the 180s without ever seeing said cloudiness.1 -
KetoneKaren wrote: »@cwang125 No apologies, I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I guess I am still stuck at "what happens with excess protein" and what I am wondering is if there is a difference in how it is metabolized in a calorie deficit or calorie homeostasis vs calorie excess. I probably wasn't clear.
If energy demand is low, and you ingest a ton of protein. Yes it will eventually be converted to glucose or ketone bodies. Which contributes to a positive energy balance. Which ultimately could lead to weight gain. However, protein is highly satieting. Go eat an entire chicken breast and see if you are still full. Or couple cans of tuna. If you maintain a caloric deficit you're going to lose weight period.
Like the study says:
"In a state of low energy demand, these metabolites will be stored as glycogen and fat, which is undesirable if weight loss is the goal. Along these lines, weight loss can only be achieved by establishing a negative calorie balance, though this may be more tenable on a high-protein diet."
Should always drink plenty of water throughout the day but it's especially important if you do eat a lot of protein as it's more taxing on the kidneys.0 -
Also what I mean is if you're targeting a very low calorie diet, it's hard to eat so much protein without cutting back drastically on your other macros.0
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Think I'm straight now, thank you for your assistance!0
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It means if you're eating roughly 3 meals a day taking in excess of 90g per day derives no additional benefit in preventing loss of muscle tissue.
If you do intense exercise you can derive benefit by eating a little bit more protein to inhibit muscle catabolism and help with muscle protein synthesis.
Dietary carbohydrates fall into two categories: simple carbohydrates, or sugars, and complex carbohydrates, or starch and fiber. Most of the simple carbohydrates in the American diet come from sugar, or sucrose, and high-fructose corn syrup, used to sweeten a wide variety of foods. Fruit juices also contribute simple sugars. Whole fruit contains simple sugars, but also contains fiber, which helps slow down the digestion of glucose. All carbohydrates supply the body with glucose, which is used for immediate energy needs and stored as glycogen in the liver and muscle cells.
Your body digests simple sugars and refined carbohydrates such as white rice and white flour rapidly, causing a spike in blood glucose. This causes the pancreas to release more insulin. When your body has more glucose than it needs for energy and has reached its storage capacity for glycogen, the increased insulin prompts the liver to convert glucose into triglycerides, which are then transported to fat cells. Between meals, your hormones release triglycerides for energy. If you’re eating more calories than your body needs, your body can store too much triglycerides (fat).
In short, when you eat carbs the body stores it in your muscles and the liver as glycogen. This is what is used rapidly during physical activity. The body stores 1-2% of it in your muscles and the rest of it in your liver. Excess gets stored in adipose tissue as fat.
Sorry this is a long explanation.
If you are intaking very little carbohydrates your body goes into a state of dietary ketosis which utilizes fat to produce ketones. Protein is also used to create glucose but this happens slowly so people who are ketotic have low levels of insulin. High levels of insulin inhibits lipolysis, the oxidation of fat. This is why ketogenic diets are so efficient for fat loss.
To be clear all diets are equally effective for fat loss. In fact holding calories and protein steady will yield equivalent results outside of glycogen depletion. Ketogenic diets burn more fat but that is because injested fat is much greater.
Insulin isn't the only hormone that causes the body to store nutrients. In the presence of dietary fat an enzyme called acylation stimulating protein is released which suppress hormone sensitive lipase. This in turn suppresses fat lost. When both carbs and fat are present, then the enzyme called glucose-dependent insulinotrophic peptide is released which suppresses HSL. So regardless of diet, if you are in a deficit, you will have longer periods of lipolysis than lipogenesis. And in all reality, dietary differences are more abouy compliance and addressing variables created by health conditions.
Sorry to go a bit off topic. Just want people to understand that insulin isnt the other thing that causes lipogenesis. One this to note, insulin also signals muscle protein synthesis.0 -
Everything I'm seeing that is in my price range has Splenda0
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http://store.maximizedliving.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idProduct=99
This is the protein powder I use. It's not gritty or chalky and tastes like chocolate or vanilla.0 -
I make sure and get over 100g of protein a day. I feel best at between 120-150g. I'm 147lbs.
@ashleyShades My favourite protein powders are Quest and Optimum Nutrition Casein.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »The RDA for adequate protein for most adults is 0.8 grams per kilogram of ideal weight. That's about 46 grams of protein per day for non-pregnant, non-lactating women and 56 grams for men.
Dietary Reference Intakes: Macronutrients
The recommendation I've seen for optimal protein (especially if body building or losing weight) is 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass or 0.8 grams per pound of your ideal weight (middle of normal BMI).
Personally, I aim for about 70 grams per day which falls between adequate and optimal but works for me.
that goal per KG is for a sedentary adult eating maintenance. If you workout or are in a deficit you required more, much more! so you don't risk a large % of your loss coming from lean muscle.
No, it's for 97-98% of everybody in each group. 56 grams would be adequate for 97-98% of all males, likely including most non-professional bodybuilders and dieters.
It's good to get a bit more than that but there's no reason to go overboard.
Since when are any bodybuilders sedentary? And since when are dieters eating at maintenance?
This is just wrong, plain and simple.
The point is that bodybuilders aren't sedentary and dieters aren't eating at maintenance. They are part of the 97-98% of everybody and the AI (including those groups) is 46 grams of protein per day for non-pregnant, non-lactating women and 56 grams for men. A bit more protein is good but the given AI amount of protein is adequate. Not optimal, but adequate. Optimal is closer to 0.8 grams of protein per pound of ideal body weight.
Broscience keeps pushing the recommended amount of protein up and up and up.
MFP used to have a default of 15% for protein but bumped that up to 20% because of studies showing that some extra protein could be beneficial in a deficit.
Extra protein can be useful but don't stress yourself out trying to reach a high protein goal that just doesn't work with your way of eating. If you are having to reach for a protein supplement to meet your goal, it might be time to reevaluate your goal.
So optimal protein intake for a 200 lb bodybuilder is 160 grams (.8 grams per pound, by your definition of optimal) but you're gonna throw 56 grams out there as adequate, regardless of size, activity level and other dietary factors?
And saying that more than 56 grams is needed is broscience? Lol k0 -
I honestly do not how I would get just 56g of protein without skipping a lot of my favourite foods, I just naturally gravitate toward high protein foods. Staying that low would require more effort than it would to get to the higher protein %, for me.0
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Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »The RDA for adequate protein for most adults is 0.8 grams per kilogram of ideal weight. That's about 46 grams of protein per day for non-pregnant, non-lactating women and 56 grams for men.
Dietary Reference Intakes: Macronutrients
The recommendation I've seen for optimal protein (especially if body building or losing weight) is 1 gram of protein per pound of lean body mass or 0.8 grams per pound of your ideal weight (middle of normal BMI).
Personally, I aim for about 70 grams per day which falls between adequate and optimal but works for me.
that goal per KG is for a sedentary adult eating maintenance. If you workout or are in a deficit you required more, much more! so you don't risk a large % of your loss coming from lean muscle.
No, it's for 97-98% of everybody in each group. 56 grams would be adequate for 97-98% of all males, likely including most non-professional bodybuilders and dieters.
It's good to get a bit more than that but there's no reason to go overboard.
Since when are any bodybuilders sedentary? And since when are dieters eating at maintenance?
This is just wrong, plain and simple.
The point is that bodybuilders aren't sedentary and dieters aren't eating at maintenance. They are part of the 97-98% of everybody and the AI (including those groups) is 46 grams of protein per day for non-pregnant, non-lactating women and 56 grams for men. A bit more protein is good but the given AI amount of protein is adequate. Not optimal, but adequate. Optimal is closer to 0.8 grams of protein per pound of ideal body weight.
Broscience keeps pushing the recommended amount of protein up and up and up.
MFP used to have a default of 15% for protein but bumped that up to 20% because of studies showing that some extra protein could be beneficial in a deficit.
Extra protein can be useful but don't stress yourself out trying to reach a high protein goal that just doesn't work with your way of eating. If you are having to reach for a protein supplement to meet your goal, it might be time to reevaluate your goal.
So optimal protein intake for a 200 lb bodybuilder is 160 grams (.8 grams per pound, by your definition of optimal) but you're gonna throw 56 grams out there as adequate, regardless of size, activity level and other dietary factors?
And saying that more than 56 grams is needed is broscience? Lol k
I'm not the one throwing it out. The US government gives AI (Adequate Intake) of protein for men as 56 grams. The link I gave says that AI can be used as the goal. They also give an AMDR of 10-35% of calories from protein.
That 200 lb bodybuilder (if he's 5' 10") would be closer to 121 grams since he'd calculate from an ideal weight (middle of normal BMI) of 151 lbs.
I didn't say that anything over AI was broscience. I said that broscience keeps pushing the amount they recommend up and up and up. Some sites are recommending over 200 grams. It's like they are trying to out-protein each other.
I agree that it's beneficial to eat over AI when weighlifting or dieting. If you can work in 0.8 grams per pound of ideal weight, that's optimal. If your way of eating puts you below that optimal amount, make sure you are getting at least the AI. If someone tells you that you need more than 0.8 grams per pound of ideal weight, consider whether you really want to spend the money and calories to consume that much protein, especially if the only way to get there is with a protein supplement.
To get back to where this thread has headed:
OP, I hope that you find a supplement that you like with the ingredients that you want that fits your budget.0 -
For me, 90-100g is enough. I'm 145 lbs with a lbm of around 115 lbs.0
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In my opinion 3g/lb of body weight would be too much0
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When cutting it's a good idea to up your protein intake to a higher percentage than you would during maintenance, being as it helps you feel full and reduces the chances that the weight you are losing is coming from broken down muscle tissue.
Throughout my cut I got in dept body composition analysis done in order to keep track of my dry mass, lean mass and fat mass, and being as I kept my protein consumption to 30% of my daily intake I managed not to lose a pound of muscle while my fat mass steadily decreased.
This is anecdotal evidence, but I've seen other guys who went on too high of deficits and too low protein who loss fat to muscle at a 1/1 ratio which is horrible.0 -
ashleyShades wrote: »Everything I'm seeing that is in my price range has Splenda
Is that an issue? Which brands have you looked at?0 -
ashleyShades wrote: »Everything I'm seeing that is in my price range has Splenda
Is that an issue? Which brands have you looked at?
In my experience, stuff with Splenda tastes sickly sweet. Even gum. Diet pop etc0 -
ashleyShades wrote: »ashleyShades wrote: »Everything I'm seeing that is in my price range has Splenda
Is that an issue? Which brands have you looked at?
In my experience, stuff with Splenda tastes sickly sweet. Even gum. Diet pop etc
Oh ok. That makes sense. What brands have you looked at?0
This discussion has been closed.
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