July (2016) Running Challenge
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lps1dragonfly wrote: »TattooedDolphinGirl78 wrote: »TattooedDolphinGirl78 wrote: »Question: What do you do to cross-train with your running? I'm looking for ideas to add to my book of tips as I like variety and would love to pick your running brains.
A follow-up question: Do you run every day, or skip a day and cross-train the days you don't run?
I ask, but there's so much literature out there that says that running every day isn't good or yes, do run everyday.
Personally, I run 5 times a week and try to do something different on weekends. It's the "something different" that tends to mess me up. Lately it's been yoga, but I feel I need more strength training as the yoga moves I do are more therapeutic/restorative.
you and I are kinda in the same place. I love my yoga and body weight stuff from my Sworkit app. I will be doing my first 5K ever in September! I am using the C25K app for my running which goes in a 3 runs a week schedule. So I try to do full body workouts or core strength on my non run days and then when I do run I tend to do a few extra minutes of yoga. I try to do yoga everyday. ***Note: I am new to running and have no training or trainer, I'm just doing this for me and I'm just listening closely to my body's cues.
i also do (aerial) yoga on my days off. i teach it on weds, go to an open gym on fridays in summer, and have a hammock hung at home. it helps a lot.1 -
I should probably clarify that while this started about VO2Max because I was looking into adding more VO2Max workouts based on my own personal running background and present abilities. In truth the blog and book I am discussing is about a more holistic view of fitness for runners, cyclers, swimmers, triathletes as they age. It just so happens that the thing that gets stressed a bit is VO2Max because it is what many endurance athletes have to somewhat focus less on for endurance, and most forsake altogether as they age.Your discussion regarding aging and VO2 max is very interesting. There is a lot of information there and I want to re-read it a couple of times. What is LT, by the way?
As for LT, it is Lactate Threshold, which is the effort at which the accumulation of lactate from exercising reaches the threshold that the uptake of lactate for energy by the muscles is exceeded causing it to accumulate in the muscle faster than it is consumed, which results (from further processes) in fatigue. One measure of it, as you can infer from a few prior posts, is that LT should be the effort you can maintain for 1 hour before hitting fatigue and unable to continue. You can get your estimated LT based on race times. You can also be tested for it, but that is not something many do save for competitive level athletes.0 -
A test would be best, but I have never done that myself!MNLittleFinn wrote: »got any idea where to find better idea of max HR?
You can also do tests on your own by exercising at maximal effort for a period of time and seeing what your HR is when you can absolutely no longer continue.
In my case I have estimated mine by all of the data I have accumulated from prior races, training times at various efforts, and plugging it all into the Jack Daniels training tables spreadsheet I downloaded from here:
http://www.electricblues.com/html/runpro.html
After putting in my known info, age, resting HR and race times I started to get an idea of what I should be capable of at other distances, but it never seemed to add up. As I focused on shorter distances (easier to repeat more often) I noticed that things were still a bit off in terms of where the spreadsheet had my LT and maximal 100% effort at. I was able to get that to finally add up by modifying my max HR upwards to 184 from the 180 I previously had. Since doing that the paces line up with observed HR/efforts for each distance very well. So based on that I estimate my max HR to be 184 because of all that. But it took me a lot of time to gather enough data and become familiar enough with what I really was capable of at each distance and what my efforts/pace at those distances were, so that I could make it all line up. Not sure if this helps, as it could actually lead you astray, but it is what worked for me.0 -
Thanks for reminding me of that. I do recall reading that before.WhatMeRunning wrote: »I suppose one thing this book made me consider about aging is looking back at people new here at MFP, or even when I was new here. The motivation may be temporary at first, but some come here (or return) saying "I hope to make long term health changes that I can apply for the rest of my life". And that's the key for diet, right? Just because you turn 70 doesn't mean you should start eating more pizza delivery because it's easier than cooking, right? Well, the same should be said of exercising, I suppose.
For me, I've found speedwork works like a crash diet. I can add it to a 50 mile/week training cycle for bits of time (2-3 months leading up to a marathon), but I notice that if I try to sustain it, running becomes less fun, my weekly mileage drops pretty substantially, I'm less motivated to bike as well, and my weight starts inching up. Given that I'm pretty awful at adjusting my diet down when my workout totals drop, I've come to the conclusion that outside of training leading up to my A races, I'm better off just cutting out the non-fun running, keeping my mileage/time up, and the weight related time benefits (I've seen about 2 minutes/pound lost at marathons) usually trumps the extra squeeked out minutes from better fitness.
Once I get closer to Chicago in October, as I'd like to inch under the 3 hour mark (given the flat course) I'll be back up to 2-3 faster sessions/week, but for now, I'm totally ok just slogging it out for a few extra miles at a comfortable pace so I can enjoy some dessert, and not feel like I'm hoping for death doing threshold pace runs in the summer Florida heat/humidity. I may re-evaluate things once my BMI get closer to the magical 21 mark (and I lose the ability to just get faster from keeping up my running and losing weight), or if Boston becomes a transcendental experience that I feel the need to repeat every year and slow down when older, but as long as I'm still above that mark (and have about 15 more pounds to lose on top of the 100 so far), LSD is definitely the answer for me.
So here's the thing about speed work, and this conforms what @Ohhim is saying above. Speedwork (being defined as reps at or near VO2Max) will only serve as a positive when you perform them for a short metacycle. In English, only do them once or at most twice a week for at most 5 or 6 weeks just before your key race. Do too much speedwork and it will begin to tax you. This article explains it better:
http://www.runnersworld.com/race-training/when-speedwork-sabotages-your-gains 1 -
@Stoshew71 - Since I had not yet been able to offer any insight into HOW this book might recommend integrating such speedwork sessions and when, I thought I would share this thing that I read, linked from one of his blog posts or perhaps a search I did. On the one hand, he tries to make it clear that there is not a "template" for all, but it may show an idea of how he may describe integrating these workouts later on in this book.
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/periodization-and-mixed-training0 -
@stoshew71 I did see where the Pounders were going on a field trip. Sounds like fun. I played landscaper last night and I agree it was way hot last night for some reason. Like the new shorts.
@5beautifuldays I agree the heat as been crazy
@kristinegift I LOVE THAT HAT!!!! I love talking Jersey with Stan too, I really miss home...not the cost of living and certainly not the winter, but I miss my friends/family and the BEACH. In the summer Skip and I would eat from one of the Seaside boardwalk to the other. Great food!
@tattooeddolphingirl78 good luck in your 5K!!!
@5512bf 72 laps, I'd throw up. I love your list of runs, such great variety.
I've also enjoyed reading all the "technical" running stuff the past few days. Lots goes over my head, but it's interesting. It interests me more honestly for Skip especially things about speed work etc. Very interesting.1 -
(Cue A Flock of Seagulls) And I ran, I ran so far awaaaay...
Well, I ran...sort of. Max speed 5.6mph, average speed, 5.0mph. I did not, however, run so far away, as I was on the treadmill.
I managed to run 1.5 miles (18 minutes), plus .7 miles of walking (14 minutes) as a very long warmup and cooldown. The ankle felt good. I had one little twinge on the outside of my ankle when I stepped down slightly wrong, but it went away immediately and has not returned.
1.5 miles of 0 mile goal completed. Even though I'm now capable of running, I am not changing my mileage goal of 0 for the month, as I want to continue to encourage smart progress and healing rather than challenging myself to meet specific mileage.12 -
July 1 - 5 mile run with 3 miles of hills....10 min pilates
July 2 - 2 mi "trail running fail".....4 miles real running :-p
July 3 - 2.5 mi hard run
July 4 - Rest day
July 5 - 3 mi easy run....1.5 mi walk with sprinting intervals....25 min strength/pilates/stretching
July 6 - 4 mi run
July 7 - 30 min indoor cardio, 30 min strength/pilates
July 8 - 6 mile run with 2 miles of hill repeats
26 miles of 60 (all bonus miles go to our invalids)
Had a great run today! I'm always glad I ran but rarely feel it was great. It was 72 with 74% humidity and I swear it felt darn near chilly when I stepped out. LOL We had rain coming and it just felt different outside. And my breathing was better than it's been in 10-14 days. It was like I had a new set of lungs :-D
1.25 warmup with gradual decline. 2 miles of 6 hill repeats. I shortened that other hill to be .15 mi up, 39 ft, 4.5% incline. After that I ran a little further downhill and then the way home was gradual incline. 329ft total elevation. Managed to run my last mile in 8:38 but it was flat. My glutes were burning after the hills but I apparently had some energy left.
@ceciliaslater Way to go!
Welcome to the group @chante_04
@lporter229 I'm opposite.....Strava gives me more elevation than Garmin. I always feel Garmin is wrong. But I think they are both just good estimates anyway, neither completely accurate.3 -
ceciliaslater wrote: »
1.5 miles of 0 mile goal completed. Even though I'm now capable of running, I am not changing my mileage goal of 0 for the month, as I want to continue to encourage smart progress and healing rather than challenging myself to meet specific mileage.
Great run! So nice to see it!
I was already thinking how to plan my August miles, and setting a goal in my head. I figure if I just wing it, I'll run everyday and try to make up for lost time. I'll keep in mind smart progress!
August 1st I should get to ditch the crutches. So I shouldn't be setting any expectations..4 -
Your discussion regarding aging and VO2 max is very interesting. There is a lot of information there and I want to re-read it a couple of times. What is LT, by the way?
This is probably a good time to remind everyone that I put together a nice collection of websites and resources in our group page which can be located by this direct link:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1269023/running-related-sites-and-references
or if you go to the group page ( http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/21182-monthly-running-challenges ) it's right at the top with the Announcements - Running related sites and references
Lots of good information to get smart on. Probably most of anyone's questions can be answered by one of the links in that folder.
About a little more than 2/3'rds down on that first page is a section "All about Lactate and (Lactate) Threshold Training" That will more than enough explain what LT is.
Your muscles get the energy it needs to contract (in order to run) by turning fuel (like sugar) with oxygen into energy (ATP). 3 main cycles in your muscle supports this. Glycolysis (the anaerobic system part) & both the Krebs Cycle and ETC (which make up the aerobic system part).
Glycolysis turns sugar (blood glucose) into pyruvate which produces a small amount of ATP. Then the Krebs Cycle and ETC takes that pyruvate along with oxygen and makes a lot of ATP. The aerobic system when operating fine only produces H2O and CO2 as waste products which you can breath out normally (or abnormally if you breathing too heavily).
The problem is when your body requires lots more ATP than what your aerobic system can support. The main limitation is how much oxygen can you absorb from your lungs, send it through your blood to your running muscles, and have your running muscles actually use it. If you run too hard and for too long, your body cannot keep up. Your exhausted about as much oxygen your body can take in and use. You reached your VO2Max.
But things get complicated even faster than that. Individual muscle cells start to become too busy way before you reach your VO2Max. That particular muscle cell cannot utilize any more oxygen to make more ATP. But the muscle cell still has a high energy demand. So the anaerobic part has to work even harder. When this happens, the Glycolysis part (which makes a small amount of ATP and pyruvate will instead ferment the pyruvate to make it become lactate. Because the anaerobic part and aerobic part get out of synch, the body is now producing extra hydrogen ions (which normally gets cleared when everything is working in perfect harmony) and when these hydrogen ions begin to accumulate it begins to acidizes the muscle and blood.
Normally hydrogen ions (H+) and lactate accumulation occurs all the time in the body but in very small amounts and the body can clear this very fast. But the harder your body works, the higher this lactate and H+ accumulation gets, where there's a point that accumulation begins to outpace the body's ability to clear it. The point this happens we call this your lactate threshold or LT. If you don't work your body too hard your body will stay below LT and you can run further and longer. That is the main reason we tell people to slow down.
If you run exactly at your LT, you should be able to keep this pace up for approximately 1 hour, where at that point lactate accumulation makes it impossible to continue.
Run faster than your LT and you will burn real hard and real fast.
Knowing your LT is very important because there are some key training workouts that are based around it. This is where threshold training, tempo runs, and lactate clearing workouts are all based upon. Stressing your LT will make you a more aerobically powerful runner which is what gives you the endurance you need to run faster and for longer.
People talk a lot about VO2Max a lot (evident by all the speed work discussion) but knowing your LT is way much more important. You can only run for a few minutes (an elite maybe 6-8 minutes) at your VO2Max. But you can run at your LT for about an hour. The difference between the 2 is maybe a minute per mile pace. Like my vLT is 7:09 min/mile while my vVO2 is 6:10 (this according to the McMillan Running Calculator when I put in my recent HM PR time). So I should be able to race at a pace of 7:09 for an hour, but only race 6:10 pace for maybe 3 minutes. That's a huge difference in a pace that is kind of very close to each other.
It kind of shows you the important of pacing yourself for races and in training.
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WhatMeRunning wrote: »@Stoshew71 - Since I had not yet been able to offer any insight into HOW this book might recommend integrating such speedwork sessions and when, I thought I would share this thing that I read, linked from one of his blog posts or perhaps a search I did. On the one hand, he tries to make it clear that there is not a "template" for all, but it may show an idea of how he may describe integrating these workouts later on in this book.
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/periodization-and-mixed-training
Thanks a bunch for the link.
Periodization is something credited to Arthur Lydiard who discovered it over 50 years ago. I got his book "Run the Lydiard Way" which talks very good about this.
The other take away I got from that link is confirmed in the link I shared about speedwork sabotaging your gains.
Your link says, "Not doing anaerobic workouts at all for several weeks means you will lose anaerobic fitness"
My link says, "Delay frequent (1-2 times per week) speed training until 4-8 weeks before your peak race. Limit any speed workouts during base to once every 3-6 weeks."
They kind of say the same thing.1 -
ceciliaslater wrote: »(Cue A Flock of Seagulls) And I ran, I ran so far awaaaay...
I ran all night and day, I couldn't get away.
Now that we got that song stuck in your head, think about that camera panning around in circles and getting you all dizzy.3 -
@lps1dragonfly You and I are pretty much in the same place after reading your post. I've been adding tougher yoga postures and I'm starting to feel it. I'm very new to all this, and the technical stuff I've been reading the past few days is enough to make me scared. lol Seriously though, like you, I'm doing this for me, listening to my body and doing what's best for me so I don't get injured.
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@mbaker566 Cool! A friend of mine does it too. I might look into that one day when I feel stronger in both mind and body.
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01/07 4 miles
05/07 4 miles
08/07 4 miles - I forgot to press the start button until 3/4mile when I went to check my heart rate. But I did the miles and that is more important.
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Marissaxzxzxz wrote: »01/07 4 miles
05/07 4 miles
08/07 4 miles - I forgot to press the start button until 3/4mile when I went to check my heart rate. But I did the miles and that is more important.
Nope, if its not on strava, then you didn't do it. ;-) Just kidding. Not really, but yeah, just kidding.4 -
July goal.....run
7/1 snorkel 4 hours
7/2 7.53
7/3 3.23
7/4 3.29
7/5 rest
7/6 4.39
7/7 3.25
7/8 7.24
Total 28.93
Upcoming races:
SHEPower Virtual Half: July 18
Las Vegas RocknRoll Virtual runs--making the band
......Guitar Solo 6/28 3.85
......Drum Solo in August
......Lead Singer in September
Las Vegas RocknRoll Half 11/13/16
Ticker is my goal for 2016 and accumulation to date:
exercise.png
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@Stoshew71 In his last book Daniels says you can keep your pace at your VO2Max for about 11 minutes.
I know a 5k is raced at close or at V02Max which is why they are such a pain
Date.....Distance..Avg hr/Pace/km
July 1 - 7.7 km - 148/6:09
July 2 - 5.8 km - 147/6:56
July 3 - 11.6km - 151/6:22
July 4 - rest
July 5 - 7.0 km - 149/6:34
July 6 - 6.5 km - 147/6:32
July 7 - 4.4 km - 139/7:00
July 8 - 5.7 km - ???/7:00
03/04: Bucharest 10k and Family run 48:28
16/04: Color Run Bucharest
17/04: Forest Run 5k 22:05
04/06: Happy Run 5k 21:57
22/07: Bucharest After9Cross 9.5k
28/08: Fox Trail Half Marathon (10k)
18/09: Baneasa Trail Run (10k)
09/10: Bucharest International Marathon (Half)3 -
Because of the heatwave this week I didnt really get to do much running, but I did take walks just to try and compensate for it. It's cooling down again so I'm looking forward to a nice jog this weekend.2 -
@AdrianChr92 Excellent excerpt.
First off, the world record for a 5K is 12:37.35 by Kenenisa Bekele. So according to Jack Daniels, very few people will run a 5K at VO2Max if they determined ~11 minutes to be the maximum anyone can run at vVO2. I think I said 6-8 minutes, so it's a little more than that but not much.
I just know that I can't run more than a few minutes at my vVO2, although it's probably very evident from the fact that I haven't really dedicated much to speed work outs. Not yet at least.
Jimmy Gilbert. In one of the videos I posted, Daniels calls him Filthy Gilbert. He's from Tillman High School in Paducka, KY. He just rags on him hard about the HS varsity letter he wore on his jacket and the fact that he didn't know what calfs (little cows) were. It's funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dQEwJhHWXk
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Thinking about...assuming my other mileage allows it....trying to fit in a 13 and 14 mile long run into my next training rotation......2
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Easy 10 today. Feeling excellent! Packet pickup in a couple hours. No plans for tomorrow, just run by feel. It will still be 100f at the 8:15pm start. I will likely cruise it.
7/6 - 2mi easy @ 8:22/mi
7/7- 5mi easy @ 7:58/mi
7/8 - 10mi easy @ 8:30/mi
Total: 17 / 200mi6 -
July:
1st. 5
2nd. 5
3rd. 5 ( Local Hospice Colour Run)
5th. 7
6th. 4
8th. 5
Total 31km out of 112km
Up coming races:
3rd Colour Run Done!
31st Helena Tipping Wrexham 10km
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Oh and I still haven't worked out how to set up the tracker thing!0
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Day 8: rest
Monthly total: 47.25/100 miles3 -
I started out just replacing some burned out light bulbs. And the next thing I knew, I was washing light fixtures and cleaning out the whole stinking basement. Which is not done. It's a big job. Gonna take two, three days. Or sticks of dynamite.
Somewhere in the middle of it all I popped Sweet Home Alabama into the DVD player and ran a few miles on the dreadmill. I'm guessing around 3.
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@5BeautifulDays Your post sounds so familiar! Last weekend I ended up disassembling a light fixture to wash all the parts and change the bulbs and got into a big reorganization project. Way to go stopping to use the treadmill
My glutes are sore from my hills this morning. Wondering how I'll feel tomorrow.1 -
8--- 1.0 mile walk
Amazingly slow walk. 35 minutes/ mile. It's like I'm 95. I did make it to the gym too for some not so hard upper body weights. I think I'll try to get out and walk most mornings. I kept thinking I'd see Harrison Ford
since I'm channeling Jabba. No luck. He's my new motivation.
Upcoming races:
11/05/16 Jenks Half Jenks OK
12/11/16 BMW Dallas Marathon, Half
Run the year 2016 898.42/ 2016
Hopeful races:
March 19th 2017 RNR Half Dallas, TX
March 26th 2017 A2A 5k Ardmore, OK
April 30th 2017 OKC Memorial Marathon, Half.6
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