Increasing cycling distance ... eating debate.

Machka9

In 2015, I lost 25 kg (55 lbs) and I am now in the lower half of my normal BMI range. Ideally, I'd like to drop another few kg ... but it's not really all that urgent, and perhaps not even necessary.

I have been cycling and doing other exercise (walking, running, rowing, stair climbing, weight-lifting, etc. etc.) for decades, but in recent years the amount diminished. This year, however, I've been doing more again ... it's so much easier when you're lighter.

Since mid-June and going forward to the end of September, and possibly even October, I have been and will be increasing my cycling and other exercise to train for a couple long distance events. That's all good ... I've got a plan that should be doable.

However, this is my debate:

Do I remain at a slight calorie deficiency to try to lose those few kg which I would, eventually, like to lose ... and would dropping, say, 3 kg actually make any sort of difference to my speed .....

Or do I up my calorie intake to maintenance because my goal over the next few months are these long distance events, and perhaps I would have more power and energy to do the training and the events if I ate at maintenance.

35dollars

I'm in much the same boat, and I'd also be interested to see what others have to say.

I've lost the same amount as you, and I'm still trying to drop the last few pounds, while also upping my cycling miles and starting to up my weight training as well. I'm maintaining a calorie deficit, which I'm pretty sure isn't helping the last two.

TavistockToad

do you feel like you train better at maintenance?

I definitely run better when i'm not in a deficit, especially over long distance. you could always up to maintenance the last couple of weeks before a race? or alternate days at maintenance the day of or day after a long ride? or stay in a deficit for July and lose a kg, and then maintain till October?

its really a suck it and see what feels right kind of situation.

sijomial

I drop my weight before a big ride - hills are my weak point and those few pounds do make a noticeable difference even for an old duffer like me. Think of all the money people spend to save a few grams on their componentry for marginal gains. There's probably a calculator out there somewhere for weight reduced to shave seconds off your times! Obviously at the elite level it makes a enough of a difference to be crucial.
But yes I think you would really notice 3kg in performance terms as a recreational rider.

Rather than a constant daily deficit I find less training impact from having a mixture of maintenance days, small deficit days and the odd big deficit. I find it very easy to have a big deficit day when I'm doing a long low to medium intensity ride.

Last week before the event when I'm tapering down the training I will eat at maintenance though.

Machka9

Dropping the 25 kg has made a huge difference climbing the hills around here (Tasmania ... very hilly place). I'm flying up them now ... relatively speaking.

However, the events we've got lined up are pretty flat ... up in the flatland of Victoria. So I'm less concerned about being able to get up the hills ... the wind, however, will likely be a concern.

Machka9

Machka9 wrote: »

Since mid-June and going forward to the end of September, and possibly even October, I have been and will be increasing my cycling and other exercise to train for a couple long distance events. That's all good ... I've got a plan that should be doable.

I'll just add that a part of my training plan is to ride two centuries (100 miles in one day) rides in July, and I've already done a 200 km event in mid-June. These long rides should give me a decent base for the even longer rides coming up.

On weekends in between those, I'll be doing shorter (75 - 100 km), somewhat hillier, rides to build strength.

And short, intense work during the week.

That's more or less the plan.

sijomial

Machka9 wrote: »

Dropping the 25 kg has made a huge difference climbing the hills around here (Tasmania ... very hilly place). I'm flying up them now ... relatively speaking.

However, the events we've got lined up are pretty flat ... up in the flatland of Victoria. So I'm less concerned about being able to get up the hills ... the wind, however, will likely be a concern.

I notice on century rides that riders I overtake on the flat sections often make up all the ground on the hills and we end up passing and repassing all day long.
But the genuinely quick riders (not me!) on the flat do tend to be smaller as well though, I hit an aerodynamic brick wall - probably not the same issue for you but smaller has an impact as well as lighter - 80% of the frontal area is you.

daweasel

I'm in a sort of similar situation, trying to balance trying (not really succeeding) to lose about 5kg or a little more (up to 10, but I'll see how I look and feel with 5) while still maintaining a fairly high training volume (approx 15hour/week including cycling, running, swimming, strength). I ride a lot with a bunch of boys (I'm female, usually the only female) from uni who all a fair bit stronger, so my issue is I can't always afford to compromise performance, but that's preventing me from often keeping my calorie intake in check as much as I'd like to lose weight as fast as I'd like to. But then that's a double edged sword, I can't ride with them sometimes depending on where they're going, because I don't have the power to weight ratio on the hills to keep up.

Machka9

Machka9 wrote: »

In 2015, I lost 25 kg (55 lbs) and I am now in the lower half of my normal BMI range. Ideally, I'd like to drop another few kg ... but it's not really all that urgent, and perhaps not even necessary.

I'll add that I'm female, 5'6" (167 cm), 126 lbs (57 kg), with a BMI of 20.3.

Therefore, 52 kg is as low as I should go before I drop into "underweight" and I don't want to do that, but I wouldn't mind seeing 54 or 55 kg on the scale. However, I'm happy waiting until the big events are over if it means I'm stronger eating at maintenance.

Machka9

daweasel wrote: »

I'm in a sort of similar situation, trying to balance trying (not really succeeding) to lose about 5kg or a little more (up to 10, but I'll see how I look and feel with 5) while still maintaining a fairly high training volume (approx 15hour/week including cycling, running, swimming, strength). I ride a lot with a bunch of boys (I'm female, usually the only female) from uni who all a fair bit stronger, so my issue is I can't always afford to compromise performance, but that's preventing me from often keeping my calorie intake in check as much as I'd like to lose weight as fast as I'd like to. But then that's a double edged sword, I can't ride with them sometimes depending on where they're going, because I don't have the power to weight ratio on the hills to keep up.

I'm developing this at last!! Coming to Tasmania was a bit of a shock for me. Everyone here is a mountain goat ... including my husband who is Tasmania. He used to have to wait quite a while for me to get up the hills, and I was often off and walking. But now ... sometimes he has to wait maybe 30 seconds ... sometimes, I'm right behind him all the way up ... and occasionally, I beat him up the hill.

Climbing stairs helped me a lot ... so did losing weight. But it is tricky to know how low to go without losing strength.

daweasel

I'm lucky that I have a fair bit of power, and a really good cardio base from years of swimming and running before I picked up cycling last year. I'm yet to ever have to walk a hill, but if I lost a few kg it'd make a huge difference to climbing for me I think. Though I reckon the boys would still be waiting for me at the top of the hills, they've all been riding for years and some of them are tiny as well. I think one guy said he did an FTP test recently and just ticked up over 5W/kg...he practically flies up!

Machka9

Yeah, I used to have a good base. I used to do these events (randonneuring/audax, centuries, double centuries, 24-hour time trials, etc.), but I've done less of them, and shorter distances since I moved to Australia in 2009 ... and not on such steep hills. So I'm building back up again.

I haven't felt this strong and enthusiastic since about 2007.

Back then, I was the same size I am now, but ate whatever I wanted ... never really paid much attention except to ensure that I ate more than usual the day before and day after an event. And back then, I lost weight throughout a season. Now, however, I'm older, I've been overweight and somewhat more sedentary, and so I'm more concerned about keeping control of my weight.

Tweaking_Time

Do both OP. I switched to maintenance calories as a daily goal and when I feel like it, I stay under. I usually feel like it once or twice per week. I have dropped 3 more pounds over the past 3 months doing that...and it was more or less painless with regards to being hungry.

Machka9

Yeah, I think I'm going to adopt a "do both" scenario. Eat a little bit more on Fridays (the day before the event or long training ride), on Saturdays (the day of the event or long training ride), and Sundays (the recovery day). And then eat a little less during the week.

sijomial

Found this interesting calculator for estimating speed gain for weight loss.
http://www.analyticcycling.com/ForcesLessWeight_Page.html

Fiddling about with the variables really demonstrates that the really big improvement from weight loss comes when the there is elevation gain. Even a 5kg loss on a flat course makes hardly any difference over 100 miles.

Presumably a more stop/start course will have a bigger difference too as weight really hurts your acceleration but not your cruising speed.

Machka9

Our training rides are hilly (because that's what we've got to work with), but the events we've got lined up are quite flat ... so according to that calculator any weight loss is probably not necessary for the events.

5 kg would put me borderline underweight ... at most I'd want to lose 3 kg.

Also, our routes are pretty remote so there isn't much stopping and starting. We get on the road and then ride, and ride and ride and ride ...

Machka9

Today's training ride ...
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10418483/july-2016-bike-cycling-bicycling-challenge#latest

Lisa_Ookoo

I am a 5'6" female, when I dropped from 135 to 125 lbs I could take the hills faster. When I dropped another 4 lbs to 121, I lost my endurance on the long rides.

Machka9

Lisa_Ookoo wrote: »

I am a 5'6" female, when I dropped from 135 to 125 lbs I could take the hills faster. When I dropped another 4 lbs to 121, I lost my endurance on the long rides.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm concerned about. If I lose that little bit more, will I also lose endurance and power.

daweasel

Just I guess a note of caution, be wary of dropping too low, especially as a female endurance athlete, for hormonal reasons.

Been there, done that, bad idea. A few years ago numerous life-stresses got the better of me and I basically stopped eating, not to lose weight, it just sort of happened. I dropped down to 47kg (168cm, 5'6"). Well before I got that low (somewhere in the mid-50kgs I'd say) my menstrual cycle stopped, which is dangerous for things like bone density (not to mention the obvious "well it can't be good for you, your body is meant to do that!"). At that stage I was still running daily as well.

When I eventually tried to get on top of what had accidentally become very ingrained destructive eating patterns, I got up to a healthier weight, around what I had been, about 60-62kg and it stayed there for perhaps a year or so but my menstrual cycle remained absent.

On the advice of a doctor, and in line with a lot of reading I did, I had to gain a significant amount of weight (now at a BMI of about 24.something, just under 30% BF) and keep it there for the last year or so. Once I gained more weight (more fat is supposed to be what helps) things started up again, but it is still irregular. I was lucky that I did not have to stop training as well, which some people in this situation have had to.

I recently had a DEXA scan done as part of someone's research, so I know I've got about 52kg of lean mass (so this is 5kg more than my total body weight was, just in lean mass now, which I almost find scary). But yeah, as a cyclist as well having a reasonable amount of surplus fat is not ideal. I am now trying to slowly(!!!) lose weight to get down around 62kg or so, and I'll see what's what there. I need to be careful of both physical health and mental health in doing this.

I guess I'm sharing this with you because it's a really annoying situation to end up in, and you don't want to find that you go too low and then have to work to undo the damage, which is so frustrating when it goes against your goals (cycling and aesthetic). Obviously, different people, different bodies, different outcomes etc etc and I don't mean to tell you what to do or even that you shouldn't, but it is definitely something to be wary of, because undoing the damage has been a really awful process.

(And sorry to anyone who thinks this is too much information, but I thought it was important to share)

Machka9

daweasel wrote: »

Just I guess a note of caution, be wary of dropping too low, especially as a female endurance athlete, for hormonal reasons.

Been there, done that, bad idea. A few years ago numerous life-stresses got the better of me and I basically stopped eating, not to lose weight, it just sort of happened. I dropped down to 47kg (168cm, 5'6"). Well before I got that low (somewhere in the mid-50kgs I'd say) my menstrual cycle stopped, which is dangerous for things like bone density (not to mention the obvious "well it can't be good for you, your body is meant to do that!"). At that stage I was still running daily as well.

I know that's the usual response to a low weight + exercise, but for some reason, a low weight + lots of exercise triggers my periods to start. I'll be in the middle of a 400K randonnee, in the middle of my cycle, and ... whoosh! Some years I've had twice as many periods as I'm supposed to have. I've talked to several Drs about it, but they all tell me that what's supposed to happen is that I lose my period, and they don't have any idea why I do the opposite.

Anyway, I'm well into perimenopause now and will hopefully hit menopause within the next year or two, and then they'll stop. At last!! I hope.

daweasel

That'll most likely be to do with the balance of hormones (estrogen vs progesterone), I've had similar experiences as things stated up. I'm 25 now, so yeah, I have to be careful. I guess so long as it doesn't cause issues there for you then you're fine

Machka9

daweasel wrote: »

That'll most likely be to do with the balance of hormones (estrogen vs progesterone), I've had similar experiences as things stated up. I'm 25 now, so yeah, I have to be careful. I guess so long as it doesn't cause issues there for you then you're fine

I'll be 50 in a few months.

And yes, at 25, you do have to be careful.

Machka9

And just when I asked this question ... an answer ...

http://www.bicycling.com/training/weight-loss/how-to-lose-weight-and-still-ride-strong