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Is it indicating being obese lowers intelligence or can lead to obesity?
Replies
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I'm getting smarter every day. Damn, I was already MENSA material.4
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Lol, 16 men and 16 women from Baltimore Maryland. What a great finding from just 32 people amongst the billions that are in the world.
I guess they didn't test professors at colleges or doctors who are obese.
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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One has to wonder how projects like these get funded and why.4
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Lol, because they are already budgeted and the money gets "lost" if they don't find a way to use it.GaleHawkins wrote: »One has to wonder how projects like these get funded and why.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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There is a pretty strong correlation between states with the least degrees, least high school graduates, worst drivers, and the highest percentage of morbidly obese people. Hint: Mississippi ranks number one for all of those, except least degrees (I believe West Virginia still takes that one).
That being said, I don't think it's ever been given more than a passing glance.2 -
Well, back when I was obese maybe it killed some brain cells, because I'm having difficulty parsing: "is it indicating being obese lowers intelligence or can lead to obesity." Also, the link doesn't work for me.
Is the question meant to be "does this study indicate that being obese lowers intelligence or does lower intelligence result in obesity"?
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Well, anecdotal I guess but of my dad and his two brothers, all were wickedly and equally smart; one obese, one average, one skinny. No differences due to fat or skinny.
I do think that not enough nutrition when growing up could lead to not reaching your potential intelligence, but too much? It doesn't quite make sense. I can't imagine there is any causation in that direction. Stupid may cause obesity in some people if they are really not smart enough to figure out that eating too much is making them fat? Or not able to care about the consequences of being overly fat? But that seems like a stretch too.
I don't think it's a crazy thing to study, though. It's relevant to people's lives, and would be a good thing to understand.2 -
First up, let's get the actual study into this conversation, not some journalist's spin on it: Full text here
Let us also note that Frontiers publishing may have some issues, as outlined here.
Then, let's just clear something up: Intelligence was in NO WAY measured in this study. They measured brain matter activity and connectivity.
So, the researchers analysed MRIs of 16 men and 16 women. Just looking at the data presented about the study group, I'd say they are likely to have been volunteers mainly recruited from the student population (look particularly at age), and not representative of the general population.
The fact that there was only barely a difference (p=.07) between the body fat percentages between men and women is also intersting. Oh, and the BFP was measured by bioimpedance, which (as most people here hoefully know) is not a particularly accurate tool.
I don't know enough about the area to critique their clinical methodology, but doing cluster analysis in the way they have is basically data mining. Digging through a huge data set to see if anything jumps out, then afterwards trying to figure out why that might be.
So, really, the study can only serve as a pilot study/jumping off point for further research: Some differences have been observed, now we can form testable hypotheses as to why.
I did find it interesting that they couldn't measure any significant (p<=.05) differences in connectivity with BMI or BFP, but that they found matter differences.13 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »There is a pretty strong correlation between states with the least degrees, least high school graduates, worst drivers, and the highest percentage of morbidly obese people. Hint: Mississippi ranks number one for all of those, except least degrees (I believe West Virginia still takes that one).
That being said, I don't think it's ever been given more than a passing glance.
This is true but I think it has more to do with the poverty level of those states. The lack of funds to buy good food, and the lack of education to make good choices with food. Not with IQ. Jamie Oliver had a show a few years ago Food Revolution and he was in a grade schools and high schools in those areas and they could not identify different fruits and vegetables or even where milk comes from.2 -
Lol, 16 men and 16 women from Baltimore Maryland. What a great finding from just 32 people amongst the billions that are in the world.
I guess they didn't test professors at colleges or doctors who are obese.
<Ridiculous signature snipped>
An obese doctor is an interesting case. Apparently we're supposed to turn to them for advice.
Is an obese Doctor
a) stupid, despite somehow managing a degree
b) given a set of tools and knowledge that simply don't work
c) demotivated and ineffective
None of these appeal. Alternatives ?1 -
Lol, 16 men and 16 women from Baltimore Maryland. What a great finding from just 32 people amongst the billions that are in the world.
I guess they didn't test professors at colleges or doctors who are obese.
<Ridiculous signature snipped>
An obese doctor is an interesting case. Apparently we're supposed to turn to them for advice.
Is an obese Doctor
a) stupid, despite somehow managing a degree
b) given a set of tools and knowledge that simply don't work
c) demotivated and ineffective
None of these appeal. Alternatives ?
I would say an obese doctor is a person who struggles with making lasting changes and/or a screwed up relationship with food like anyone else.
I haven't done much in adulthood worth mentioning, but I was an obese size 24 valedictorian.11 -
Anyone want to put cash on the barrel regarding the odds of this one going 20 pages?1
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »There is a pretty strong correlation between states with the least degrees, least high school graduates, worst drivers, and the highest percentage of morbidly obese people. Hint: Mississippi ranks number one for all of those, except least degrees (I believe West Virginia still takes that one).
That being said, I don't think it's ever been given more than a passing glance.
This is true but I think it has more to do with the poverty level of those states. The lack of funds to buy good food, and the lack of education to make good choices with food. Not with IQ. Jamie Oliver had a show a few years ago Food Revolution and he was in a grade schools and high schools in those areas and they could not identify different fruits and vegetables or even where milk comes from.
I don't want to bite someone else's work, so I'll post a link. The poverty thing is pretty easy to discard when you realize that it's all but a non-factor outside of the US, and didn't even exist here until the last couple of decades.
Link: http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2012/06/your-fat-is-unequivocally-your-fault.html
It's heavily sourced, intentionally offensive, and extremely NSFW.1 -
If people read the 'Your Fat Is Unequivocally Your Fault' article this thread will definitely zoom past 20 pages:sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Anyone want to put cash on the barrel regarding the odds of this one going 20 pages?Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »There is a pretty strong correlation between states with the least degrees, least high school graduates, worst drivers, and the highest percentage of morbidly obese people. Hint: Mississippi ranks number one for all of those, except least degrees (I believe West Virginia still takes that one).
That being said, I don't think it's ever been given more than a passing glance.
This is true but I think it has more to do with the poverty level of those states. The lack of funds to buy good food, and the lack of education to make good choices with food. Not with IQ. Jamie Oliver had a show a few years ago Food Revolution and he was in a grade schools and high schools in those areas and they could not identify different fruits and vegetables or even where milk comes from.
I don't want to bite someone else's work, so I'll post a link. The poverty thing is pretty easy to discard when you realize that it's all but a non-factor outside of the US, and didn't even exist here until the last couple of decades.
Link: http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2012/06/your-fat-is-unequivocally-your-fault.html
It's heavily sourced, intentionally offensive, and extremely NSFW.
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »There is a pretty strong correlation between states with the least degrees, least high school graduates, worst drivers, and the highest percentage of morbidly obese people. Hint: Mississippi ranks number one for all of those, except least degrees (I believe West Virginia still takes that one).
That being said, I don't think it's ever been given more than a passing glance.
This is true but I think it has more to do with the poverty level of those states. The lack of funds to buy good food, and the lack of education to make good choices with food. Not with IQ. Jamie Oliver had a show a few years ago Food Revolution and he was in a grade schools and high schools in those areas and they could not identify different fruits and vegetables or even where milk comes from.
I don't want to bite someone else's work, so I'll post a link. The poverty thing is pretty easy to discard when you realize that it's all but a non-factor outside of the US, and didn't even exist here until the last couple of decades.
Link: http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2012/06/your-fat-is-unequivocally-your-fault.html
It's heavily sourced, intentionally offensive, and extremely NSFW.
Did you read this? It is a satire.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »There is a pretty strong correlation between states with the least degrees, least high school graduates, worst drivers, and the highest percentage of morbidly obese people. Hint: Mississippi ranks number one for all of those, except least degrees (I believe West Virginia still takes that one).
That being said, I don't think it's ever been given more than a passing glance.
This is true but I think it has more to do with the poverty level of those states. The lack of funds to buy good food, and the lack of education to make good choices with food. Not with IQ. Jamie Oliver had a show a few years ago Food Revolution and he was in a grade schools and high schools in those areas and they could not identify different fruits and vegetables or even where milk comes from.
I don't want to bite someone else's work, so I'll post a link. The poverty thing is pretty easy to discard when you realize that it's all but a non-factor outside of the US, and didn't even exist here until the last couple of decades.
Link: http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2012/06/your-fat-is-unequivocally-your-fault.html
It's heavily sourced, intentionally offensive, and extremely NSFW.
Did you read this? It is a satire.
If you believe it's satire, you've never met the author. There are actually three more parts, but this one's the more tame of the four. By part four, he's gone into full on rampage mode, and it gets nasty, as he starts including pictures of the disgusting things that happen to the body once it hits "supermorbidly obese".0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »There is a pretty strong correlation between states with the least degrees, least high school graduates, worst drivers, and the highest percentage of morbidly obese people. Hint: Mississippi ranks number one for all of those, except least degrees (I believe West Virginia still takes that one).
That being said, I don't think it's ever been given more than a passing glance.
This is true but I think it has more to do with the poverty level of those states. The lack of funds to buy good food, and the lack of education to make good choices with food. Not with IQ. Jamie Oliver had a show a few years ago Food Revolution and he was in a grade schools and high schools in those areas and they could not identify different fruits and vegetables or even where milk comes from.
I don't want to bite someone else's work, so I'll post a link. The poverty thing is pretty easy to discard when you realize that it's all but a non-factor outside of the US, and didn't even exist here until the last couple of decades.
Link: http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2012/06/your-fat-is-unequivocally-your-fault.html
It's heavily sourced, intentionally offensive, and extremely NSFW.
Did you read this? It is a satire.
That wasn't satire. THIS is satire: http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/congressional-republicans-vote-to-abolish-f-b-i0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »There is a pretty strong correlation between states with the least degrees, least high school graduates, worst drivers, and the highest percentage of morbidly obese people. Hint: Mississippi ranks number one for all of those, except least degrees (I believe West Virginia still takes that one).
That being said, I don't think it's ever been given more than a passing glance.
This is true but I think it has more to do with the poverty level of those states. The lack of funds to buy good food, and the lack of education to make good choices with food. Not with IQ. Jamie Oliver had a show a few years ago Food Revolution and he was in a grade schools and high schools in those areas and they could not identify different fruits and vegetables or even where milk comes from.
I don't want to bite someone else's work, so I'll post a link. The poverty thing is pretty easy to discard when you realize that it's all but a non-factor outside of the US, and didn't even exist here until the last couple of decades.
Link: http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2012/06/your-fat-is-unequivocally-your-fault.html
It's heavily sourced, intentionally offensive, and extremely NSFW.
Did you read this? It is a satire.
That wasn't satire. THIS is satire: http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/congressional-republicans-vote-to-abolish-f-b-i
Yes I know, it was just so awful and hate filled0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »There is a pretty strong correlation between states with the least degrees, least high school graduates, worst drivers, and the highest percentage of morbidly obese people. Hint: Mississippi ranks number one for all of those, except least degrees (I believe West Virginia still takes that one).
That being said, I don't think it's ever been given more than a passing glance.
This is true but I think it has more to do with the poverty level of those states. The lack of funds to buy good food, and the lack of education to make good choices with food. Not with IQ. Jamie Oliver had a show a few years ago Food Revolution and he was in a grade schools and high schools in those areas and they could not identify different fruits and vegetables or even where milk comes from.
I don't want to bite someone else's work, so I'll post a link. The poverty thing is pretty easy to discard when you realize that it's all but a non-factor outside of the US, and didn't even exist here until the last couple of decades.
Link: http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2012/06/your-fat-is-unequivocally-your-fault.html
It's heavily sourced, intentionally offensive, and extremely NSFW.
Did you read this? It is a satire.
That wasn't satire. THIS is satire: http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/congressional-republicans-vote-to-abolish-f-b-i
Yes I know, it was just so awful and hate filled
Hey, I warned that it was intentionally offensive. The worst part is, hate aside, it's pretty accurate.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »There is a pretty strong correlation between states with the least degrees, least high school graduates, worst drivers, and the highest percentage of morbidly obese people. Hint: Mississippi ranks number one for all of those, except least degrees (I believe West Virginia still takes that one).
That being said, I don't think it's ever been given more than a passing glance.
This is true but I think it has more to do with the poverty level of those states. The lack of funds to buy good food, and the lack of education to make good choices with food. Not with IQ. Jamie Oliver had a show a few years ago Food Revolution and he was in a grade schools and high schools in those areas and they could not identify different fruits and vegetables or even where milk comes from.
I don't want to bite someone else's work, so I'll post a link. The poverty thing is pretty easy to discard when you realize that it's all but a non-factor outside of the US, and didn't even exist here until the last couple of decades.
Link: http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2012/06/your-fat-is-unequivocally-your-fault.html
It's heavily sourced, intentionally offensive, and extremely NSFW.
Did you read this? It is a satire.
That wasn't satire. THIS is satire: http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/congressional-republicans-vote-to-abolish-f-b-i
Yes I know, it was just so awful and hate filled
Hey, I warned that it was intentionally offensive. The worst part is, hate aside, it's pretty accurate.
No just No2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »There is a pretty strong correlation between states with the least degrees, least high school graduates, worst drivers, and the highest percentage of morbidly obese people. Hint: Mississippi ranks number one for all of those, except least degrees (I believe West Virginia still takes that one).
That being said, I don't think it's ever been given more than a passing glance.
This is true but I think it has more to do with the poverty level of those states. The lack of funds to buy good food, and the lack of education to make good choices with food. Not with IQ. Jamie Oliver had a show a few years ago Food Revolution and he was in a grade schools and high schools in those areas and they could not identify different fruits and vegetables or even where milk comes from.
I don't want to bite someone else's work, so I'll post a link. The poverty thing is pretty easy to discard when you realize that it's all but a non-factor outside of the US, and didn't even exist here until the last couple of decades.
Link: http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2012/06/your-fat-is-unequivocally-your-fault.html
It's heavily sourced, intentionally offensive, and extremely NSFW.
Did you read this? It is a satire.
That wasn't satire. THIS is satire: http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/congressional-republicans-vote-to-abolish-f-b-i
Yes I know, it was just so awful and hate filled
Hey, I warned that it was intentionally offensive. The worst part is, hate aside, it's pretty accurate.
And I liked a couple of the pics. Still trying to figure out what's wrong with it.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »There is a pretty strong correlation between states with the least degrees, least high school graduates, worst drivers, and the highest percentage of morbidly obese people. Hint: Mississippi ranks number one for all of those, except least degrees (I believe West Virginia still takes that one).
That being said, I don't think it's ever been given more than a passing glance.
This is true but I think it has more to do with the poverty level of those states. The lack of funds to buy good food, and the lack of education to make good choices with food. Not with IQ. Jamie Oliver had a show a few years ago Food Revolution and he was in a grade schools and high schools in those areas and they could not identify different fruits and vegetables or even where milk comes from.
I don't want to bite someone else's work, so I'll post a link. The poverty thing is pretty easy to discard when you realize that it's all but a non-factor outside of the US, and didn't even exist here until the last couple of decades.
Link: http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2012/06/your-fat-is-unequivocally-your-fault.html
It's heavily sourced, intentionally offensive, and extremely NSFW.
Did you read this? It is a satire.
That wasn't satire. THIS is satire: http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/congressional-republicans-vote-to-abolish-f-b-i
Yes I know, it was just so awful and hate filled
Hey, I warned that it was intentionally offensive. The worst part is, hate aside, it's pretty accurate.
No just No
Yes, just yes.
You'll notice a common theme here on MFP. Those who succeed in changing themselves are those who accept that they did it to themselves, and learn how to fix it. Those who remain in denial? Well, there's several thousand pages of "grararTatata why I no lose weight??1!1!" threads7 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »There is a pretty strong correlation between states with the least degrees, least high school graduates, worst drivers, and the highest percentage of morbidly obese people. Hint: Mississippi ranks number one for all of those, except least degrees (I believe West Virginia still takes that one).
That being said, I don't think it's ever been given more than a passing glance.
This is true but I think it has more to do with the poverty level of those states. The lack of funds to buy good food, and the lack of education to make good choices with food. Not with IQ. Jamie Oliver had a show a few years ago Food Revolution and he was in a grade schools and high schools in those areas and they could not identify different fruits and vegetables or even where milk comes from.
I don't want to bite someone else's work, so I'll post a link. The poverty thing is pretty easy to discard when you realize that it's all but a non-factor outside of the US, and didn't even exist here until the last couple of decades.
Link: http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2012/06/your-fat-is-unequivocally-your-fault.html
It's heavily sourced, intentionally offensive, and extremely NSFW.
Did you read this? It is a satire.
That wasn't satire. THIS is satire: http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/congressional-republicans-vote-to-abolish-f-b-i
Yes I know, it was just so awful and hate filled
Hey, I warned that it was intentionally offensive. The worst part is, hate aside, it's pretty accurate.
No just No
Yes, just yes.
You'll notice a common theme here on MFP. Those who succeed in changing themselves are those who accept that they did it to themselves, and learn how to fix it. Those who remain in denial? Well, there's several thousand pages of "grararTatata why I no lose weight??1!1!" threads
And they like pics of bewbs0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »There is a pretty strong correlation between states with the least degrees, least high school graduates, worst drivers, and the highest percentage of morbidly obese people. Hint: Mississippi ranks number one for all of those, except least degrees (I believe West Virginia still takes that one).
That being said, I don't think it's ever been given more than a passing glance.
This is true but I think it has more to do with the poverty level of those states. The lack of funds to buy good food, and the lack of education to make good choices with food. Not with IQ. Jamie Oliver had a show a few years ago Food Revolution and he was in a grade schools and high schools in those areas and they could not identify different fruits and vegetables or even where milk comes from.
I don't want to bite someone else's work, so I'll post a link. The poverty thing is pretty easy to discard when you realize that it's all but a non-factor outside of the US, and didn't even exist here until the last couple of decades.
Link: http://chaosandpain.blogspot.com/2012/06/your-fat-is-unequivocally-your-fault.html
It's heavily sourced, intentionally offensive, and extremely NSFW.
Did you read this? It is a satire.
That wasn't satire. THIS is satire: http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/congressional-republicans-vote-to-abolish-f-b-i
Yes I know, it was just so awful and hate filled
Hey, I warned that it was intentionally offensive. The worst part is, hate aside, it's pretty accurate.
No just No
Yes, just yes.
You'll notice a common theme here on MFP. Those who succeed in changing themselves are those who accept that they did it to themselves, and learn how to fix it. Those who remain in denial? Well, there's several thousand pages of "grararTatata why I no lose weight??1!1!" threads
And they like pics of bewbs
Well yeah, everyone likes those.
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I did my own study. My husband is "obese" according to their chart, and the smartest person I have ever known. I was "obese" also at the time i took an IQ test (an actual test, not an internet score) and scored 128.0
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I'm not going to go around telling people they're less intelligent, for any reason.1
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I did my own study. My husband is "obese" according to their chart, and the smartest person I have ever known. I was "obese" also at the time i took an IQ test (an actual test, not an internet score) and scored 128.
That's really not how science works. The thing that many people don't seem to understand is that saying that the obese population are less intelligent than the fit population is not the same as saying that individual obese people are less intelligent than individual fit people, and is definitely not the same as saying that obese people cannot be intelligent.
Your argument is like saying "Muggsy Bogues was 5'3" and an NBA player, so height really has nothing to do with how good someone is at basketball."
edit: lysdexia3 -
Interesting. I have attention deficit disorder and one of the ways it manifests for me is absolutely atrocious impulse control. I stopped taking medication to treat it when I became pregnant with my son and just never went back on them. Over the course of 3 years after my son was born I ballooned to my highest weight ever and my behavior became increasingly destructive(hiding food, hiding what I was eating, secretive about food). I feel like I should point out that I have a master's in industrial organizational psychology so I do have some basic understanding of the science behind it all. Can I blame my ADD for being fat? No. Did ADD propel my choices forward more so than they would have for someone with better impulse control? It's possible. Do I think being fat made me dumb? Not so much. I only took a single course on neuroscience, so I can't claim to know much about the neural brain differences cited in the article, but behavior and executive function differences make sense to me. Just my thoughts.1
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I don't think so. I was the fattest kid in class, I was always in the top students' list, every single semester. I was in the dean's list. I succeeded amazingly with my A-level. Not to brag or whatsoever just stating the facts. So no, I beg to differ. It doesn't apply to everyone. Size doesn't determine intelligence 1
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