Chemicals: It's in everything, including "natural" food
ninerbuff
Posts: 49,030 Member
I stumbled upon an article yesterday at work and it was really good at explanation (in layman's terms) at how chemicals are "viewed" by the general population.
It's a pretty good read for those trying to figure out if they are eating too many "chemicals" in their food and that's why they have a weight problem.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
With this rise in lifestyle commentary, misconceptions about what chemicals are and what they do have increased and
spread. So much so, that the facts about chemicals seem surprising and counter-intuitive. Do people know that nothing can be ‘chemical free’? How many know that ‘E-numbers’ simply denote approval for food use and include some essential vitamins? Did you know that your body functions in exactly the same way whether you follow a ‘detox’ regime or just a normal
diet? Or that the idea of the‘cocktail effect’ in relation to alcohol is an urban myth? When it comes to chemicals, there are so
many misconceptions that people are often scared and anxious when they needn’t be,and complacent when they shouldn’t
be.
So why is there such a disconnection between perception and reality? It seems partly to be the result of intensive merchandising of ‘alternative’ products, lifestyle ideas and campaigns that play on misconceptions about chemicals and
about how the body works. It is also notable that lifestyle commentators are excluded from science-related briefings,
and have few opportunities to make relevant scientific contacts. So, something needs to be done by the scientists
in a way that is genuinely helpful to people writing quick copy for a lifestyle audience.
http://www.senseaboutscience.org/data/files/resources/5/MakingSenseofChemicalStories_July08-Reprint.pdf
It's a pretty good read for those trying to figure out if they are eating too many "chemicals" in their food and that's why they have a weight problem.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0
Replies
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bump0
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"the result of intensive merchandising of 'alternative' products"
,,,that's the whole thesis right there. In the end, they are JUST PRODUCTS someone wants to SELL you0 -
Thanks.. still going to avoid as many added and man made chemicals as i can. :~) To err is human.. but nature is perfect :~)0
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So you'd drink water from a river rather than water treated with chemicals to ensure safer drinking? Nature ain't perfect, it's just nature.Thanks.. still going to avoid as many added and man made chemicals as i can. :~) To err is human.. but nature is perfect :~)
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I would, have have, drank fresh water from a river, that had bugs on it's surface and was running fast.. you're right.. it's not always perfect.. but i have a brain and i know how to use it.
to each thier own.0 -
To sort of put a few things about chemicals in perspective, my wife is going through an Organic Chemistry 2 class. Her, being a native Korean speaker, uses me as a guinea pig when reading her lab reports. She has successfully extracted and purified caffeine from steeped tea bags, b-carotene from carrot juice, and a whole host of other direct chemical extractions from standard household products.
The interaction between chemicals with solubility, and polarity and proton balance, etc. really makes you appreciate the necessities of your body and how sometimes, something like eating a raspberry vs. raspberry ketones can change in purpose drastically, or not at all. With better living through chemistry you can get better or worse reaction with your body, depending on what you use or ingest.
Additionally, the fact that you have to go all the way up to an Organic Chemistry 2 class to even fathom some of the chemical reactions makes it extremely simple for some charlatan, or snake oil peddler, or fear monger, or rumormill to say anything they want about nearly any product, food or supplement and have people get sucked in to believing it.
TL;DR - Nature IS Chemistry0 -
I would, have have, drank fresh water from a river, that had bugs on it's surface and was running fast.. you're right.. it's not always perfect.. but i have a brain and i know how to use it.
to each thier own.
Apparently you've never had giardia...
To which I say "lucky you!" I aint fun.0 -
Interesting perspective!
I do think people need to understand a bit more about what certain chemicals are. For instance, citric acid is just dehydrated lemon juice (that's why the alternative name is lemon salt).0 -
Not to mention cryptosporidium. Of course if one ingests either, they can claim it as a natural "detoxifier".:laugh:I would, have have, drank fresh water from a river, that had bugs on it's surface and was running fast.. you're right.. it's not always perfect.. but i have a brain and i know how to use it.
to each thier own.
Apparently you've never had giardia...
To which I say "lucky you!" I aint fun.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
Hopefully some will take the time to read some of the article.Interesting perspective!
I do think people need to understand a bit more about what certain chemicals are. For instance, citric acid is just dehydrated lemon juice (that's why the alternative name is lemon salt).
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition0 -
I think we take for granted the ability to choose to be natural. Most places just want their water and food sources to be safe, but we are so safe that we're fighting for natural, not realizing that "natural" is a result of our already safe circumstances. I mean, we stock our organic, locally-grown, gmo-free kale in a modern refrigerator. When do we start sacrificing our safety in the name of all-natural?I would, have have, drank fresh water from a river, that had bugs on it's surface and was running fast.. you're right.. it's not always perfect.. but i have a brain and i know how to use it.
to each thier own.0 -
Should have people make lists of things they trust the government with. Always interesting to see.0
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I think we take for granted the ability to choose to be natural. Most places just want their water and food sources to be safe, but we are so safe that we're fighting for natural, not realizing that "natural" is a result of our already safe circumstances. I mean, we stock our organic, locally-grown, gmo-free kale in a modern refrigerator. When do we start sacrificing our safety in the name of all-natural?I would, have have, drank fresh water from a river, that had bugs on it's surface and was running fast.. you're right.. it's not always perfect.. but i have a brain and i know how to use it.
to each thier own.
Good point! It's like people who are on the Paleo diet. As Alan Aragon says:
"The present decade has just begun, and eating clean has taken some interesting directions. One is an appeal to imagination about Paleolithic eating habits, which eliminates the consumption of grains, legumes, dairy, added salt, sugar, alcohol, and even certain vegetables. This definition of clean is perhaps the most logically inconsistent one. It emphasizes a prehistoric model, yet many of its proponents take an array of cutting-edge nutritional supplements, and use satellite technology to navigate their drive to the closest parking spot at the gym. Fruits and vegetables have always been a mainstay of clean eating, but pesticide-free produce is now somehow cleaner, pests and all."0 -
Should have people make lists of things they trust the government with. Always interesting to see.
Would you trust the government to tell you the water from that natural spring hasn't been polluted by fracking or something else?0 -
My problem is adding chemicals excessively or when we don't need them. Like adding high fructose corn syrup and sugar...why do we need both? I believe in altering our food when it creates a better product...like cooking tomatoes to produce more lycopene. I just don't understand the processing of food when another product that is just slightly less processed is just as good.0
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I think the main issue is people should be more aware of what they put in their mouth and on their skin. OP is offering education - though a little biased - which is great. Just let people educate themsleves and make up their own minds please. I can't stand preaching, no matter on which side they're on. Everybody is right. Just go with what you're comfortable with.0
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My problem is adding chemicals excessively or when we don't need them. Like adding high fructose corn syrup and sugar...why do we need both? I believe in altering our food when it creates a better product...like cooking tomatoes to produce more lycopene. I just don't understand the processing of food when another product that is just slightly less processed is just as good.
High fructose corn syrup is a signal of economic waste and is a product of government subsidies for corn farmers. So many farmers are growing corn because the subsidies have made it profitable, so the excess gets turned into HFCS and that's why it is of such prevalent use in the U.S. instead of sugar.0 -
Should have people make lists of things they trust the government with. Always interesting to see.
Would you trust the government to tell you the water from that natural spring hasn't been polluted by fracking or something else?
Exactly. There are regulations to protect the water supply from fracking. Do you believe they are effective? Do you believe scientists are actually responsible for chemical policy? Do you trust the government to spend your taxes efficiently? All sorts of questions to ask. If you fully trust government food oversight, but fully distrust the government in other ways, is that sensible?
I just think it would be funny to see the lists of things people trust the government to do or not.0 -
Should have people make lists of things they trust the government with. Always interesting to see.
Would you trust the government to tell you the water from that natural spring hasn't been polluted by fracking or something else?
Exactly. There are regulations to protect the water supply from fracking. Do you believe they are effective? Do you believe scientists are actually responsible for chemical policy? Do you trust the government to spend your taxes efficiently? All sorts of questions to ask. If you fully trust government food oversight, but fully distrust the government in other ways, is that sensible?
I just think it would be funny to see the lists of things people trust the government to do or not.
My first furlough day is tomorrow. How far do you think I trust the government?0 -
Should have people make lists of things they trust the government with. Always interesting to see.
Would you trust the government to tell you the water from that natural spring hasn't been polluted by fracking or something else?
Exactly. There are regulations to protect the water supply from fracking. Do you believe they are effective? Do you believe scientists are actually responsible for chemical policy? Do you trust the government to spend your taxes efficiently? All sorts of questions to ask. If you fully trust government food oversight, but fully distrust the government in other ways, is that sensible?
I just think it would be funny to see the lists of things people trust the government to do or not.
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My problem is adding chemicals excessively or when we don't need them. Like adding high fructose corn syrup and sugar...why do we need both? I believe in altering our food when it creates a better product...like cooking tomatoes to produce more lycopene. I just don't understand the processing of food when another product that is just slightly less processed is just as good.
High fructose corn syrup is a signal of economic waste and is a product of government subsidies for corn farmers. So many farmers are growing corn because the subsidies have made it profitable, so the excess gets turned into HFCS and that's why it is of such prevalent use in the U.S. instead of sugar.
Exactly-this is when I begin to have a problem with chemicals added to my food- when it is about money rather than improving food quality or safety.0 -
I stumbled upon an article yesterday at work and it was really good at explanation (in layman's terms) at how chemicals are "viewed" by the general population.With this rise in lifestyle commentary, misconceptions about what chemicals are and what they do have increased and
spread. So much so, that the facts about chemicals seem surprising and counter-intuitive. Do people know that nothing can be ‘chemical free’? How many know that ‘E-numbers’ simply denote approval for food use and include some essential vitamins? Did you know that your body functions in exactly the same way whether you follow a ‘detox’ regime or just a normal
diet? Or that the idea of the‘cocktail effect’ in relation to alcohol is an urban myth? When it comes to chemicals, there are so
many misconceptions that people are often scared and anxious when they needn’t be,and complacent when they shouldn’t
be.
So why is there such a disconnection between perception and reality? It seems partly to be the result of intensive merchandising of ‘alternative’ products, lifestyle ideas and campaigns that play on misconceptions about chemicals and
about how the body works. It is also notable that lifestyle commentators are excluded from science-related briefings,
and have few opportunities to make relevant scientific contacts. So, something needs to be done by the scientists
in a way that is genuinely helpful to people writing quick copy for a lifestyle audience.
http://www.senseaboutscience.org/data/files/resources/5/MakingSenseofChemicalStories_July08-Reprint.pdf
It's a pretty good read for those trying to figure out if they are eating too many "chemicals" in their food and that's why they have a weight problem.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I'm going to read the report, but the bit I bolded struck me from your quote. Are lifestyle commentators truly excluded, or are they simply not interested in the science? Because I'd have to say it seems like the latter to me...0 -
I stumbled upon an article yesterday at work and it was really good at explanation (in layman's terms) at how chemicals are "viewed" by the general population.With this rise in lifestyle commentary, misconceptions about what chemicals are and what they do have increased and
spread. So much so, that the facts about chemicals seem surprising and counter-intuitive. Do people know that nothing can be ‘chemical free’? How many know that ‘E-numbers’ simply denote approval for food use and include some essential vitamins? Did you know that your body functions in exactly the same way whether you follow a ‘detox’ regime or just a normal
diet? Or that the idea of the‘cocktail effect’ in relation to alcohol is an urban myth? When it comes to chemicals, there are so
many misconceptions that people are often scared and anxious when they needn’t be,and complacent when they shouldn’t
be.
So why is there such a disconnection between perception and reality? It seems partly to be the result of intensive merchandising of ‘alternative’ products, lifestyle ideas and campaigns that play on misconceptions about chemicals and
about how the body works. It is also notable that lifestyle commentators are excluded from science-related briefings,
and have few opportunities to make relevant scientific contacts. So, something needs to be done by the scientists
in a way that is genuinely helpful to people writing quick copy for a lifestyle audience.
http://www.senseaboutscience.org/data/files/resources/5/MakingSenseofChemicalStories_July08-Reprint.pdf
It's a pretty good read for those trying to figure out if they are eating too many "chemicals" in their food and that's why they have a weight problem.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I'm going to read the report, but the bit I bolded struck me from your quote. Are lifestyle commentators truly excluded, or are they simply not interested in the science? Because I'd have to say it seems like the latter to me...
A little of both I would believe. When someone makes wild claims in public nobody bats an eye. When someone makes unsubstantiated claims at a scientific symposium people get irritated that you're wasting their time. Lifestyle commentators tend to buy their representatives, like Dr. Oz.0 -
My problem is adding chemicals excessively or when we don't need them. Like adding high fructose corn syrup and sugar...why do we need both? I believe in altering our food when it creates a better product...like cooking tomatoes to produce more lycopene. I just don't understand the processing of food when another product that is just slightly less processed is just as good.
Do you defy the laws of physics when you cook tomatoes?
ETA: this is just one example of the lack of scientific understanding the OP is calling out
ETA: not to mention that the health claims around lycopene are wildly over stated. There's only 1 FDA highly limited health claim around prostate cancer prevention and 1 preliminary study around ischemic stroke prevention.
Let me guess...you heard of lycopene on a Heinz commercial0 -
To sort of put a few things about chemicals in perspective, my wife is going through an Organic Chemistry 2 class. Her, being a native Korean speaker, uses me as a guinea pig when reading her lab reports. She has successfully extracted and purified caffeine from steeped tea bags, b-carotene from carrot juice, and a whole host of other direct chemical extractions from standard household products.
The interaction between chemicals with solubility, and polarity and proton balance, etc. really makes you appreciate the necessities of your body and how sometimes, something like eating a raspberry vs. raspberry ketones can change in purpose drastically, or not at all. With better living through chemistry you can get better or worse reaction with your body, depending on what you use or ingest.
Additionally, the fact that you have to go all the way up to an Organic Chemistry 2 class to even fathom some of the chemical reactions makes it extremely simple for some charlatan, or snake oil peddler, or fear monger, or rumormill to say anything they want about nearly any product, food or supplement and have people get sucked in to believing it.
TL;DR - Nature IS Chemistry
Interesting read...thank you
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this is like opening pandora's box, at least it was for me and it stressed me out as I slowly realized there was no way to eat truly healthy without growing it yourself. Unfortunately, if you buy from the commercial food supply, the nutrition if that food is terrible and highly toxic. There is NO way around it. Even organic doesn't mean much (although it's still better than non-organic).0
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this is like opening pandora's box, at least it was for me and it stressed me out as I slowly realized there was no way to eat truly healthy without growing it yourself. Unfortunately, if you buy from the commercial food supply, the nutrition if that food is terrible and highly toxic. There is NO way around it. Even organic doesn't mean much (although it's still better than non-organic).
Really? No way? It sounds like you might be experiencing a little orthorexia.0 -
Have you heard about that horrible Dihydrogen Monoxide stuff?0
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My problem is adding chemicals excessively or when we don't need them. Like adding high fructose corn syrup and sugar...why do we need both? I believe in altering our food when it creates a better product...like cooking tomatoes to produce more lycopene. I just don't understand the processing of food when another product that is just slightly less processed is just as good.
Do you defy the laws of physics when you cook tomatoes?
ETA: this is just one example of the lack of scientific understanding the OP is calling out
ETA: not to mention that the health claims around lycopene are wildly over stated. There's only 1 FDA highly limited health claim around prostate cancer prevention and 1 preliminary study around ischemic stroke prevention.
Let me guess...you heard of lycopene on a Heinz commercial
Wow, for starters, you're rude. There are plenty of legit scientific studies about cooking vs raw food. Look up the Cornell study for starters. I also read conflicting studies and the conclusion is basically there are benefits from raw and benefits from cooked food. Why do you assume everyone is an idiot who can't find "scientific studies." I didn't get it from a Heinz commercial, I got it from reading for weeks about raw vs cooked because I was deciding whether to start consuming mass amounts of raw vegetables. Jesus, some of you guys are really high and mighty and think you are the end all be all to everything. Thanks for the vote of confidence that us plebeians can do a little research before making a decision about our health and food choices.0 -
it doesn't stress me out now as there isn't much I can do about it without growing my own food and raising my own livestock. I'm just saying, when I was trying to eat better throughout my weight loss journey, i went through different stages of learning what was bad and good but it turns out everything is bad in the commercial food supply. That is a FACT. So I basically follow the IIFYM type of lifestyle, which basically ends up being pseudo-paleo without the strict grass-fed/organic/etc part of it(just can't afford it).0
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