Cardio vs lifting while trying to lose weight
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TannedTiger wrote: »CICO is BS, I did it for 8 months, didn't work.
And now all the experts are going to tell me how I did it all wrong.
0/10 troll attempt0 -
You need both. If you're in a caloric deficit on a daily basis, over-training on cardio can do some damage to your metabolism. You also run the risk of ending up in the "skinny fat" territory and no one, that I know of - at least, likes that look. Honestly, you need to find a good balance of both. I'm a total cardio junkie but once I started including a caloric deficit into my life, it quickly turned against me. Once I started implementing a strength routine, as well...things fell into place. Cardio will help you burn fat, but if you aren't building that muscle up underneath...it's not pretty. To give you an example of what I'm doing: I have a week where I focus more on cardio so each day I do about 30-35 minutes of straight high impact, high intensity cardio and follow that up with 20-30 minutes of strength training while incorporating short cardio bursts to keep the heart rate elevated. On alternating weeks, I do a 30-40 minute strength routine that still has short cardio bursts thrown in and then tack on a 20-minute circuit training routine that includes both strength and cardio and top off the whole workout with a PiYo workout (higher intensity yoga/pilates routine). Working for me so far. My body doesn't respond well when I don't have at least a little bit of cardio in daily, but you can't overdo it. It'll take some trial and error to determine what your body needs more of, but you do need both...and over-training with cardio will only lead to a negative result. Hope that helped on some level.0
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TannedTiger wrote: »CICO is BS, I did it for 8 months, didn't work.
And now all the experts are going to tell me how I did it all wrong.
You didn't do it wrong, but you don't understand what it is. CICO is an oversimplication of the energy balance equation which is made up of several components (basal metabolic rate + non exercise activity thermogenesis, thermal effect of food + thermal effect of activity). The end results is Total daily energy expended.
Many people assume calorie counting is CICO, but it's not. Calorie counting is merely a tool that estimates caloric intake. In the end, when people fail, they think CICO is disproved. But in reality, it's the estimates of expenditure or intake that wasn't done correctly.
OP, do both. Both benefit different parts of your body (skeletal system vs cardiovascular system). And while you are at it, throw in some flexibility to address overall fitness.2 -
As already stated really, a good weight lifting routine that covers your entire body, supplemented with cardio is the best in my opinion and experience.2
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Here was my experience between incorporating and not incorporating lifting. Years ago I was ~240lbs and really had never weight trained with any consistency. I lost 35lbs primarily just on lowering my caloric intact and no exercise. I started with a size 42waist jean XXL shirts and finished with a 38 jean XL shirt. Flash forward a couple years and like many I gained the weight back. This time I included some weight training and lots of HIIT cardio.. Started at 245 with tight size 42 jeans and xxl shirts. Got to 205 36 jeans and XL shirt. I then switched to powerlifting for about a year. My scale weight increased but my clothing sizes didn't.
So again life happens (divorce), stop lifting, start eating way too much, gain back +some to 270. But weird thing, at 265-270 wearing the size 42 jeans I used to wear at 240-245lbs. Started powerlifting in may with no cardio other than a 30min brisk walk everyday and getting a handle on my caloric intake. Down to 235lb but wearing the 36 jeans and large tops I wore previously at 205-210lbs. I have a suit I bought 11 years ago when I was 215ish lbs that is too big on me now around the waist even though my scale weight is 20 lbs heavier.
If pure "weight loss" is your goal, all you need is to eat less than you burn. If you want to recomp your body and change how you look, weight training is the way to do it.
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angelwowings23 wrote: »You need both. If you're in a caloric deficit on a daily basis, over-training on cardio can do some damage to your metabolism. You also run the risk of ending up in the "skinny fat" territory and no one, that I know of - at least, likes that look. Honestly, you need to find a good balance of both. I'm a total cardio junkie but once I started including a caloric deficit into my life, it quickly turned against me. Once I started implementing a strength routine, as well...things fell into place. Cardio will help you burn fat, but if you aren't building that muscle up underneath...it's not pretty. To give you an example of what I'm doing: I have a week where I focus more on cardio so each day I do about 30-35 minutes of straight high impact, high intensity cardio and follow that up with 20-30 minutes of strength training while incorporating short cardio bursts to keep the heart rate elevated. On alternating weeks, I do a 30-40 minute strength routine that still has short cardio bursts thrown in and then tack on a 20-minute circuit training routine that includes both strength and cardio and top off the whole workout with a PiYo workout (higher intensity yoga/pilates routine). Working for me so far. My body doesn't respond well when I don't have at least a little bit of cardio in daily, but you can't overdo it. It'll take some trial and error to determine what your body needs more of, but you do need both...and over-training with cardio will only lead to a negative result. Hope that helped on some level.
if you are in a deficit and lifting weights you arent going to be building much muscle. you need to be in a surplus for that. you may build up some but its not going to be enough to burn a lot of calories. there is also no proof that doing just cardio will lead to negative results or damage your metabolism(it either works or it doesnt),sure you may not strengthen up the muscle and you will lose some while losing weight that is normal,but what negative effects are you talking about? what works for you may not work for everyone else. some never do cardio and just lift weights. YMMV2 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »You need both. If you're in a caloric deficit on a daily basis, over-training on cardio can do some damage to your metabolism. You also run the risk of ending up in the "skinny fat" territory and no one, that I know of - at least, likes that look. Honestly, you need to find a good balance of both. I'm a total cardio junkie but once I started including a caloric deficit into my life, it quickly turned against me. Once I started implementing a strength routine, as well...things fell into place. Cardio will help you burn fat, but if you aren't building that muscle up underneath...it's not pretty. To give you an example of what I'm doing: I have a week where I focus more on cardio so each day I do about 30-35 minutes of straight high impact, high intensity cardio and follow that up with 20-30 minutes of strength training while incorporating short cardio bursts to keep the heart rate elevated. On alternating weeks, I do a 30-40 minute strength routine that still has short cardio bursts thrown in and then tack on a 20-minute circuit training routine that includes both strength and cardio and top off the whole workout with a PiYo workout (higher intensity yoga/pilates routine). Working for me so far. My body doesn't respond well when I don't have at least a little bit of cardio in daily, but you can't overdo it. It'll take some trial and error to determine what your body needs more of, but you do need both...and over-training with cardio will only lead to a negative result. Hope that helped on some level.
if you are in a deficit and lifting weights you arent going to be building much muscle. you need to be in a surplus for that. you may build up some but its not going to be enough to burn a lot of calories.
Sorry, but that is not true. If you are 7%BF and ripped, ya you are not going to put on muscle in a deficit situation. You have no reserves to fuel growth. If you are 35%BF and embark upon a consistent program of resistance training with linear progression, you can and will build muscle while in a caloric deficit. If you have never done resistance training before you can see some nice "newbie" growth of muscle for the first 3-6 months. Now, keep in mind realistic muscle growth depends on age, sex, diet and training. We are talking 1lb a month for women and 1-2lbs a month for men.
The whole point of the caloric deficit is to force your body to burn internal energy reserves (ie: fat) to operate your body, and repair and grow muscle if you add in the external stimuli of resistance training. Resistance training backed by sufficient levels of protein during caloric deficit is also key to maintaining the muscle mass you have while losing weight. Losing that muscle mass while shedding lbs can adversely affect your BMR down the line, especially on a super low cal diets people seem to love going on.
Eventually as your BF drops and you have less and less reserves it becomes harder and harder to gain muscle while in deficit. Which is why you see bodybuilders and physique competitors going through bulk and cut cycles. Bulk to gain, then cut and try and hold on to as much of the gains as you can while getting comp ready.4 -
It's a nutty place some days.
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TannedTiger wrote: »CICO is BS, I did it for 8 months, didn't work.
And now all the experts are going to tell me how I did it all wrong.
@tannedtiger: So you don't know what CICO is? Cause you can't really "do it wrong". It's not something one does.1 -
Doing all cardio is not desireable, but it will not: a) ruin your metabolism or b) make you skinny fat. Protein is your friend.0
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In all seriousness, there are many different ways to achieve your goal. The choice of "cardio" or "weights" needn't be either/or. You can do it with all weights or all cardio, or both. (You can even do it with neither, but research suggests you won't maintain your success for very long).
There are different ways to do cardio, there are different ways to lift weights, there are innumerable ways to combine both.
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BillMcKay1 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »You need both. If you're in a caloric deficit on a daily basis, over-training on cardio can do some damage to your metabolism. You also run the risk of ending up in the "skinny fat" territory and no one, that I know of - at least, likes that look. Honestly, you need to find a good balance of both. I'm a total cardio junkie but once I started including a caloric deficit into my life, it quickly turned against me. Once I started implementing a strength routine, as well...things fell into place. Cardio will help you burn fat, but if you aren't building that muscle up underneath...it's not pretty. To give you an example of what I'm doing: I have a week where I focus more on cardio so each day I do about 30-35 minutes of straight high impact, high intensity cardio and follow that up with 20-30 minutes of strength training while incorporating short cardio bursts to keep the heart rate elevated. On alternating weeks, I do a 30-40 minute strength routine that still has short cardio bursts thrown in and then tack on a 20-minute circuit training routine that includes both strength and cardio and top off the whole workout with a PiYo workout (higher intensity yoga/pilates routine). Working for me so far. My body doesn't respond well when I don't have at least a little bit of cardio in daily, but you can't overdo it. It'll take some trial and error to determine what your body needs more of, but you do need both...and over-training with cardio will only lead to a negative result. Hope that helped on some level.
if you are in a deficit and lifting weights you arent going to be building much muscle. you need to be in a surplus for that. you may build up some but its not going to be enough to burn a lot of calories.
Sorry, but that is not true. If you are 7%BF and ripped, ya you are not going to put on muscle in a deficit situation. You have no reserves to fuel growth. If you are 35%BF and embark upon a consistent program of resistance training with linear progression, you can and will build muscle while in a caloric deficit. If you have never done resistance training before you can see some nice "newbie" growth of muscle for the first 3-6 months. Now, keep in mind realistic muscle growth depends on age, sex, diet and training. We are talking 1lb a month for women and 1-2lbs a month for men.
The whole point of the caloric deficit is to force your body to burn internal energy reserves (ie: fat) to operate your body, and repair and grow muscle if you add in the external stimuli of resistance training. Resistance training backed by sufficient levels of protein during caloric deficit is also key to maintaining the muscle mass you have while losing weight. Losing that muscle mass while shedding lbs can adversely affect your BMR down the line, especially on a super low cal diets people seem to love going on.
Eventually as your BF drops and you have less and less reserves it becomes harder and harder to gain muscle while in deficit. Which is why you see bodybuilders and physique competitors going through bulk and cut cycles. Bulk to gain, then cut and try and hold on to as much of the gains as you can while getting comp ready.
you will get some newbie gains sure but they will slack off and being a woman there is no guarantee she will gain 1lb a month of muscle either.muscle is primarily built up in a surplus. Im sure a lot of the other members who have been here awhile will validate that as well.if that were the case I should have a decent amount of muscle after 4 years of lifting. I dont have nearly what you are saying I should have.its very hard to grow muscle in a deficit.you eat in a surplus,and do progressive lifting to fuel growth. I dont see where body fat has anything to do with growing muscle? are you saying you use your fat to create muscle?0 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »You need both. If you're in a caloric deficit on a daily basis, over-training on cardio can do some damage to your metabolism. You also run the risk of ending up in the "skinny fat" territory and no one, that I know of - at least, likes that look. Honestly, you need to find a good balance of both. I'm a total cardio junkie but once I started including a caloric deficit into my life, it quickly turned against me. Once I started implementing a strength routine, as well...things fell into place. Cardio will help you burn fat, but if you aren't building that muscle up underneath...it's not pretty. To give you an example of what I'm doing: I have a week where I focus more on cardio so each day I do about 30-35 minutes of straight high impact, high intensity cardio and follow that up with 20-30 minutes of strength training while incorporating short cardio bursts to keep the heart rate elevated. On alternating weeks, I do a 30-40 minute strength routine that still has short cardio bursts thrown in and then tack on a 20-minute circuit training routine that includes both strength and cardio and top off the whole workout with a PiYo workout (higher intensity yoga/pilates routine). Working for me so far. My body doesn't respond well when I don't have at least a little bit of cardio in daily, but you can't overdo it. It'll take some trial and error to determine what your body needs more of, but you do need both...and over-training with cardio will only lead to a negative result. Hope that helped on some level.
if you are in a deficit and lifting weights you arent going to be building much muscle. you need to be in a surplus for that. you may build up some but its not going to be enough to burn a lot of calories.
Sorry, but that is not true. If you are 7%BF and ripped, ya you are not going to put on muscle in a deficit situation. You have no reserves to fuel growth. If you are 35%BF and embark upon a consistent program of resistance training with linear progression, you can and will build muscle while in a caloric deficit. If you have never done resistance training before you can see some nice "newbie" growth of muscle for the first 3-6 months. Now, keep in mind realistic muscle growth depends on age, sex, diet and training. We are talking 1lb a month for women and 1-2lbs a month for men.
The whole point of the caloric deficit is to force your body to burn internal energy reserves (ie: fat) to operate your body, and repair and grow muscle if you add in the external stimuli of resistance training. Resistance training backed by sufficient levels of protein during caloric deficit is also key to maintaining the muscle mass you have while losing weight. Losing that muscle mass while shedding lbs can adversely affect your BMR down the line, especially on a super low cal diets people seem to love going on.
Eventually as your BF drops and you have less and less reserves it becomes harder and harder to gain muscle while in deficit. Which is why you see bodybuilders and physique competitors going through bulk and cut cycles. Bulk to gain, then cut and try and hold on to as much of the gains as you can while getting comp ready.
you will get some newbie gains sure but they will slack off and being a woman there is no guarantee she will gain 1lb a month of muscle either.muscle is primarily built up in a surplus. Im sure a lot of the other members who have been here awhile will validate that as well.if that were the case I should have a decent amount of muscle after 4 years of lifting. I dont have nearly what you are saying I should have.its very hard to grow muscle in a deficit.you eat in a surplus,and do progressive lifting to fuel growth. I dont see where body fat has anything to do with growing muscle? are you saying you use your fat to create muscle?
It pretty common knowledge that you can and do build muscle while in a deficit.1 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »You need both. If you're in a caloric deficit on a daily basis, over-training on cardio can do some damage to your metabolism. You also run the risk of ending up in the "skinny fat" territory and no one, that I know of - at least, likes that look. Honestly, you need to find a good balance of both. I'm a total cardio junkie but once I started including a caloric deficit into my life, it quickly turned against me. Once I started implementing a strength routine, as well...things fell into place. Cardio will help you burn fat, but if you aren't building that muscle up underneath...it's not pretty. To give you an example of what I'm doing: I have a week where I focus more on cardio so each day I do about 30-35 minutes of straight high impact, high intensity cardio and follow that up with 20-30 minutes of strength training while incorporating short cardio bursts to keep the heart rate elevated. On alternating weeks, I do a 30-40 minute strength routine that still has short cardio bursts thrown in and then tack on a 20-minute circuit training routine that includes both strength and cardio and top off the whole workout with a PiYo workout (higher intensity yoga/pilates routine). Working for me so far. My body doesn't respond well when I don't have at least a little bit of cardio in daily, but you can't overdo it. It'll take some trial and error to determine what your body needs more of, but you do need both...and over-training with cardio will only lead to a negative result. Hope that helped on some level.
if you are in a deficit and lifting weights you arent going to be building much muscle. you need to be in a surplus for that. you may build up some but its not going to be enough to burn a lot of calories.
Sorry, but that is not true. If you are 7%BF and ripped, ya you are not going to put on muscle in a deficit situation. You have no reserves to fuel growth. If you are 35%BF and embark upon a consistent program of resistance training with linear progression, you can and will build muscle while in a caloric deficit. If you have never done resistance training before you can see some nice "newbie" growth of muscle for the first 3-6 months. Now, keep in mind realistic muscle growth depends on age, sex, diet and training. We are talking 1lb a month for women and 1-2lbs a month for men.
The whole point of the caloric deficit is to force your body to burn internal energy reserves (ie: fat) to operate your body, and repair and grow muscle if you add in the external stimuli of resistance training. Resistance training backed by sufficient levels of protein during caloric deficit is also key to maintaining the muscle mass you have while losing weight. Losing that muscle mass while shedding lbs can adversely affect your BMR down the line, especially on a super low cal diets people seem to love going on.
Eventually as your BF drops and you have less and less reserves it becomes harder and harder to gain muscle while in deficit. Which is why you see bodybuilders and physique competitors going through bulk and cut cycles. Bulk to gain, then cut and try and hold on to as much of the gains as you can while getting comp ready.
you will get some newbie gains sure but they will slack off and being a woman there is no guarantee she will gain 1lb a month of muscle either.muscle is primarily built up in a surplus. Im sure a lot of the other members who have been here awhile will validate that as well.if that were the case I should have a decent amount of muscle after 4 years of lifting. I dont have nearly what you are saying I should have.its very hard to grow muscle in a deficit.you eat in a surplus,and do progressive lifting to fuel growth. I dont see where body fat has anything to do with growing muscle? are you saying you use your fat to create muscle?
It pretty common knowledge that you can and do build muscle while in a deficit.
You can build muscle in a deficit but not a lot of new muscle. And it would be dependent on leanness, the training program, how new to lifting your are, if you are a returning person to lifting, how steep your deficit is and genetic potential. Not everyone can do it. And many dont have adequate training or nutrition.1 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »angelwowings23 wrote: »You need both. If you're in a caloric deficit on a daily basis, over-training on cardio can do some damage to your metabolism. You also run the risk of ending up in the "skinny fat" territory and no one, that I know of - at least, likes that look. Honestly, you need to find a good balance of both. I'm a total cardio junkie but once I started including a caloric deficit into my life, it quickly turned against me. Once I started implementing a strength routine, as well...things fell into place. Cardio will help you burn fat, but if you aren't building that muscle up underneath...it's not pretty. To give you an example of what I'm doing: I have a week where I focus more on cardio so each day I do about 30-35 minutes of straight high impact, high intensity cardio and follow that up with 20-30 minutes of strength training while incorporating short cardio bursts to keep the heart rate elevated. On alternating weeks, I do a 30-40 minute strength routine that still has short cardio bursts thrown in and then tack on a 20-minute circuit training routine that includes both strength and cardio and top off the whole workout with a PiYo workout (higher intensity yoga/pilates routine). Working for me so far. My body doesn't respond well when I don't have at least a little bit of cardio in daily, but you can't overdo it. It'll take some trial and error to determine what your body needs more of, but you do need both...and over-training with cardio will only lead to a negative result. Hope that helped on some level.
if you are in a deficit and lifting weights you arent going to be building much muscle. you need to be in a surplus for that. you may build up some but its not going to be enough to burn a lot of calories.
Sorry, but that is not true. If you are 7%BF and ripped, ya you are not going to put on muscle in a deficit situation. You have no reserves to fuel growth. If you are 35%BF and embark upon a consistent program of resistance training with linear progression, you can and will build muscle while in a caloric deficit. If you have never done resistance training before you can see some nice "newbie" growth of muscle for the first 3-6 months. Now, keep in mind realistic muscle growth depends on age, sex, diet and training. We are talking 1lb a month for women and 1-2lbs a month for men.
The whole point of the caloric deficit is to force your body to burn internal energy reserves (ie: fat) to operate your body, and repair and grow muscle if you add in the external stimuli of resistance training. Resistance training backed by sufficient levels of protein during caloric deficit is also key to maintaining the muscle mass you have while losing weight. Losing that muscle mass while shedding lbs can adversely affect your BMR down the line, especially on a super low cal diets people seem to love going on.
Eventually as your BF drops and you have less and less reserves it becomes harder and harder to gain muscle while in deficit. Which is why you see bodybuilders and physique competitors going through bulk and cut cycles. Bulk to gain, then cut and try and hold on to as much of the gains as you can while getting comp ready.
you will get some newbie gains sure but they will slack off and being a woman there is no guarantee she will gain 1lb a month of muscle either.muscle is primarily built up in a surplus. Im sure a lot of the other members who have been here awhile will validate that as well.if that were the case I should have a decent amount of muscle after 4 years of lifting. I dont have nearly what you are saying I should have.its very hard to grow muscle in a deficit.you eat in a surplus,and do progressive lifting to fuel growth. I dont see where body fat has anything to do with growing muscle? are you saying you use your fat to create muscle?
It pretty common knowledge that you can and do build muscle while in a deficit.
You can build muscle in a deficit but not a lot of new muscle. And it would be dependent on leanness, the training program, how new to lifting your are, if you are a returning person to lifting, how steep your deficit is and genetic potential. Not everyone can do it. And many dont have adequate training or nutrition.
Which I covered pretty extensively above including that the more trained you get and leaner you, are the harder it becomes until it requires a surplus. Muscle gain is also not linear. First couple years are easier to put on muscle. The longer you lift the less muscle you can expect to gain each year until (if you are natural) until you reach a peak.1 -
I've read that building muscle and preventing muscle loss on a deficit depends more on protein intake than calories consumed. By eating 1.2g protein/kg body weight you can continue to build muscle - for me this is a 50% higher than what MFP recommend but not excessive.
Just personally I've gained muscle on a deficit. I know this because I can poke at them and they are definitely muscles! 3 -
Maybe you should have gotten the out of shape trainer instead of the ripped one then.TannedTiger wrote: »CICO is BS, I did it for 8 months, didn't work.
And now all the experts are going to tell me how I did it all wrong.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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