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Cheat day..yes or no?

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  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,454 Member
    JstTheWayIam wrote: »
    You can get away with a weekly cheat "meal" and still lose for a while but eventually you will get stuck.

    No cheat days... Think cheat treat, once a week... Imho

    I actually don't care for the concept of cheat days or meals as I prefer to work the foods I enjoy in on a regular basis... but I'm curious why you believe eventually you'll get stuck if you do employ the "cheat meal" philosophy? If the calories are accounted for and a weekly deficit is maintained, why would a person get stuck?
  • JstTheWayIam
    JstTheWayIam Posts: 6,357 Member
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    JstTheWayIam wrote: »
    You can get away with a weekly cheat "meal" and still lose for a while but eventually you will get stuck.

    No cheat days... Think cheat treat, once a week... Imho

    I actually don't care for the concept of cheat days or meals as I prefer to work the foods I enjoy in on a regular basis... but I'm curious why you believe eventually you'll get stuck if you do employ the "cheat meal" philosophy? If the calories are accounted for and a weekly deficit is maintained, why would a person get stuck?
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    JstTheWayIam wrote: »
    You can get away with a weekly cheat "meal" and still lose for a while but eventually you will get stuck.

    No cheat days... Think cheat treat, once a week... Imho

    I actually don't care for the concept of cheat days or meals as I prefer to work the foods I enjoy in on a regular basis... but I'm curious why you believe eventually you'll get stuck if you do employ the "cheat meal" philosophy? If the calories are accounted for and a weekly deficit is maintained, why would a person get stuck?

    Personal experience... Lost 180

    The lower you get the more that cheat meal is going to count against you... Could be water retention from a salty meal... But

    I can say from experience losing weight is not as simple as math and calorie restriction... Despite what anyone says.
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,454 Member
    JstTheWayIam wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    JstTheWayIam wrote: »
    You can get away with a weekly cheat "meal" and still lose for a while but eventually you will get stuck.

    No cheat days... Think cheat treat, once a week... Imho

    I actually don't care for the concept of cheat days or meals as I prefer to work the foods I enjoy in on a regular basis... but I'm curious why you believe eventually you'll get stuck if you do employ the "cheat meal" philosophy? If the calories are accounted for and a weekly deficit is maintained, why would a person get stuck?
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    JstTheWayIam wrote: »
    You can get away with a weekly cheat "meal" and still lose for a while but eventually you will get stuck.

    No cheat days... Think cheat treat, once a week... Imho

    I actually don't care for the concept of cheat days or meals as I prefer to work the foods I enjoy in on a regular basis... but I'm curious why you believe eventually you'll get stuck if you do employ the "cheat meal" philosophy? If the calories are accounted for and a weekly deficit is maintained, why would a person get stuck?

    Personal experience... Lost 180

    The lower you get the more that cheat meal is going to count against you... Could be water retention from a salty meal... But

    I can say from experience losing weight is not as simple as math and calorie restriction... Despite what anyone says.

    Water retention is temporary and shouldn't be considered as derailing progress.

    What does weight loss come down to then, if not CICO?
  • JstTheWayIam
    JstTheWayIam Posts: 6,357 Member

    If you eat a hundred calories of pizza, it's going to effect you more than vegetables would.

    Cico over simplifies it

  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,454 Member
    JstTheWayIam wrote: »
    If you eat a hundred calories of pizza, it's going to effect you more than vegetables would.

    Cico over simplifies it

    Affect you in what way?

    For weight loss it does come down to CICO, period. For overall health and nutrition certainly different foods have different impacts, nobone disputes that. I'm curious though what's so bad about pizza? Depending on the toppings, how would it be so vastly different or markedly worse than vegetables? I'd actually say pizza would be better than a plate of vegetables since you could have protein and fats as well as veggies on that pizza....
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    JstTheWayIam wrote: »
    If you eat a hundred calories of pizza, it's going to effect you more than vegetables would.
    Probably not...
    JstTheWayIam wrote: »
    Cico over simplifies it
    CICO does nothing except show the energy balance in the body...
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited December 2016
    JstTheWayIam wrote: »
    If you eat a hundred calories of pizza, it's going to effect you more than vegetables would.

    Cico over simplifies it

    What does "effect you" mean? Foods are different, but it's the overall diet that affects you (and if calories are constant and protein adequate) we aren't talking weight loss or even fat loss but nutrition, satiety, overall well-being, which are of course important but unlikely to be affected by a single "cheat meal" even if I personally wouldn't call it that.

    100 calories of pizza is a small amount, so likely not that filling, and will involve a variety of ingredients -- cheese, flour, probably olive oil, tomatoes, whatever you put on the pizza (I normally like lots of vegetables, so the problem with my pizzas is that I need to compensate with more protein in sides or other meals).

    100 calories of vegetables is kind of a lot (more than 300 grams of broccoli, for example), and will likely have a lot more fiber than the pizza (cheese, oil, and white flour don't have much fiber), but in itself is equally poor as a diet. I've had something similar (but with a mix of veg) for dinner on occasion and find it filling enough (some don't), but wouldn't think it was a healthy way of eating if all meals were like that, of course.

    Now, of course, 100 calories is a small part of any day, so you are going to eat other foods anyway, so it's kind of a weird comparison. If I had pizza I'd have more than 100 calories and have other things too, likely including lots of vegetables, and if I had the vegetables I'd also eat other foods that contributed more carbs, fat, and protein, so I guess I don't see the point.
  • JstTheWayIam
    JstTheWayIam Posts: 6,357 Member
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    JstTheWayIam wrote: »
    If you eat a hundred calories of pizza, it's going to effect you more than vegetables would.

    Cico over simplifies it

    Affect you in what way?

    For weight loss it does come down to CICO, period. For overall health and nutrition certainly different foods have different impacts, nobone disputes that. I'm curious though what's so bad about pizza? Depending on the toppings, how would it be so vastly different or markedly worse than vegetables? I'd actually say pizza would be better than a plate of vegetables since you could have protein and fats as well as veggies on that pizza....

    That's insane...

    Pizza is the number one source of salt for people between 10-50yrs of age. ..

    You don't honestly believe that pizza is more healthy for you than vegetables do you?

    If you eat pizza twice a week and I opt for a bowl of veggies instead... Do you really think you'll out live me, or weigh less?
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    One would think there was no variety in pizza. And that no one could put vegetables on pizza or eat pizza with vegetables on the side. Weird! I was unaware of these rules somehow.
  • JstTheWayIam
    JstTheWayIam Posts: 6,357 Member
    edited December 2016
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    One would think there was no variety in pizza. And that no one could put vegetables on pizza or eat pizza with vegetables on the side. Weird! I was unaware of these rules somehow.

    Are you actually going to try to argue that there's vegetables on pizza...?

    And I'm not talking about a homemade pizza either.

    Yeah and McDonald's French fries are healthy because there vegetables!
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,454 Member
    JstTheWayIam wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    One would think there was no variety in pizza. And that no one could put vegetables on pizza or eat pizza with vegetables on the side. Weird! I was unaware of these rules somehow.

    Are you actually going to try to argue that there's vegetables on pizza...?

    And I'm not talking about a homemade pizza either.

    Yeah and McDonald's French fries are healthy because there vegetables!

    You seem to be implying that anyone who eats pizza is eating a large meat lovers pizza, and that there are no alternative varieties. Strange. I enjoy pepperoni and sausage pizza when I'm eating with my family, I will have two pieces and some salad and it fits well in my calories for the week. I also enjoy a Mediterranean style pizza with pesto instead of sauce, grilled chicken, spinach, red peppers and artichoke hearts with feta cheese, it has about the same amount of cals but more vegetables. My favorite pizza is what I had in Italy several times which is a margherita pizza. No vegetables (other than tomato sauce), no meat, pretty low cal though.

    And I would say that McDonalds fries can be part of a healthy diet, because I don't think that looking at individual foods as healthy or unhealthy is helpful or accurate....

  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,972 Member
    JstTheWayIam wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    JstTheWayIam wrote: »
    If you eat a hundred calories of pizza, it's going to effect you more than vegetables would.

    Cico over simplifies it

    Affect you in what way?

    For weight loss it does come down to CICO, period. For overall health and nutrition certainly different foods have different impacts, nobone disputes that. I'm curious though what's so bad about pizza? Depending on the toppings, how would it be so vastly different or markedly worse than vegetables? I'd actually say pizza would be better than a plate of vegetables since you could have protein and fats as well as veggies on that pizza....

    That's insane...

    Pizza is the number one source of salt for people between 10-50yrs of age. ..

    You don't honestly believe that pizza is more healthy for you than vegetables do you?

    If you eat pizza twice a week and I opt for a bowl of veggies instead... Do you really think you'll out live me, or weigh less?
    Yes. Because it's still about CICO. Ever see a fat vegetarian? How do herbivores get fat? Don't rely on your anecdotes to try to trump science. If you have slowed weight loss, it could be a myriad of reasons why. Less muscle mass, lower hormone secretion, etc.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,343 Member
    edited December 2016
    JstTheWayIam wrote: »
    Are you actually going to try to argue that there's vegetables on pizza...?

    Seriously? This pizza thing - have you ever actually tried it or seen one in real life? I'd ask if you're actually going to try to argue that there aren't vegetables (and sometimes even fruits) on pizza. Onions, green peppers, mushrooms, pineapple, spinach, olives - and let's not forget tomato sauce (tomato is a vegetable last time I checked). Check the website of almost any pizza chain, most of them have options which are completely vegetarian.
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
    I had pizza for dinner last night and it had vegetables on it! Go figure!
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    JstTheWayIam wrote: »
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    One would think there was no variety in pizza. And that no one could put vegetables on pizza or eat pizza with vegetables on the side. Weird! I was unaware of these rules somehow.

    Are you actually going to try to argue that there's vegetables on pizza...?

    Every pizza I eat has vegetables on it, yes. If you choose pizzas without vegetables, that's on you.
    And I'm not talking about a homemade pizza either.

    Why not? The main times I eat pizza is when I make it at home or at Italian restaurants where it's similar in ingredients to a pasta dish (which I also order with vegetables in it).
    Yeah and McDonald's French fries are healthy because there vegetables!

    I tend to consider potatoes more of a starch course than a vegetable course. I'm talking about non starchy veg.

    On the other hand, I make potatoes at home often (might for lunch today, along with other foods, including non starchy veg), and don't consider potatoes unhealthy, so whatever. If your frame of reference is "a plate of only vegetables" or "fast food or whatever fast food pizza place you are thinking of," again, that's you, not a reason to judge how anyone else eats. It also says nothing about nutrition, which is about overall diet (and needs more than non-starchy vegetables, despite me being a huge vegetable fan).
  • scootergirl110
    scootergirl110 Posts: 44 Member
    edited December 2016
    Nope. Not for me either. I have the hardest pounds to lose right now - the last 10-12 before reaching a goal that allows me to be comfortable give or take a couple. The weight is coming off, but it's not easy. Having a cheat meal wouldn't be too bad, or a "cheat moment." If my 16 year old is having a slice of cheesecake, I may ask her for a bite, for example. A cheat day, however, would reverse what I may have accomplished in a week. I eat almost anything I want within reason and stay within my daily calories - I don't feel deprived. I do miss that late night glass of vino. I've cut that out and have tea instead or something else that's lower in calories. I will not give up the small glass that I pour while I'm cooking - something I've been doing for years - or the 4-5 ounces with dinner.
  • ladyreva78
    ladyreva78 Posts: 4,080 Member
    Urg. Great... now I want pizza, but there's no way I have the calories for it today. At least, not for an amount that would satisfy me (no way I'm only eating a slice of my yummy, homemade pizza with Gorgonzola, ham, tomato sauce, onions and artichoke hearts). I guess I'll have to plan that for tomorrow.

    Would that be considered cheating? If you're planing for it? :confused:
  • Tacklewasher
    Tacklewasher Posts: 7,122 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    (tomato is a vegetable last time I checked).

    Nope. Fruit

    :)

    I have a pizza once a week. 1/2 at the pub with a beer and the other 1/2 over a couple of lunches.

    As for cheat meals, as long as I log and track everything, nothing is a cheat. So what if I'm over one day as long as the week is good and the weight is coming off.
  • MrTeaToe
    MrTeaToe Posts: 4 Member
    I really like the concept of a "Cheat Meal" rather than a "Cheat Day". Since it takes no effort to stump the 1500 calories mark.

    For my "Cheat Meal" I pretty much save as many of those 1500 calories as I can for that special meal. I go into the table hungry; I eat slowly, without guilt, and until full. However, my "Cheat Meal" is not a "Cut loose" and eat without discipline meal. I eat and drink what I like but until full. So my discipline is on observing my impulse to over eating. "Cheat Meal" is often the meal I enjoy during most social conventions. And my big mouth already announced to everyone that I am back on the road so that is accountability of a sort. :)
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Tacklewasher wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    (tomato is a vegetable last time I checked).

    Nope. Fruit

    The question is whether the botanical classification is the one that matters or the culinary one (I think for nutrition purposes it is typically the culinary one). We had this discussion recently about cucumbers.

    Wiki says:
    Botanically, a tomato is a fruit, a berry, consisting of the ovary, together with its seeds, of a flowering plant. However, the tomato has a much lower sugar content than other edible fruits, and is therefore not as sweet. Typically served as part of a salad or main course of a meal, rather than at dessert, it is considered a "culinary vegetable". One exception is that tomatoes are treated as a fruit in home canning practices: they are acidic enough to process in a water bath rather than a pressure cooker as vegetables require. Tomatoes are not the only food source with this ambiguity: bell peppers, cucumbers, green beans, eggplants, avocados, and squashes of all kinds (such as zucchini and pumpkins) are all botanically fruits, yet cooked as vegetables. This has led to legal dispute in the United States. In 1887, U.S. tariff laws that imposed a duty on vegetables, but not on fruits, caused the tomato's status to become a matter of legal importance. The U.S. Supreme Court settled this controversy on 10 May 1893, by declaring that the tomato is a vegetable, based on the popular definition that classifies vegetables by use, that they are generally served with dinner and not dessert (Nix v. Hedden (149 U.S. 304)). The holding of this case applies only to the interpretation of the Tariff Act of 3 March 1883, and the court did not purport to reclassify the tomato for botanical or other purposes.

    Mayo Clinic similarly says: http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-blog/fruit-vegetable-difference/bgp-20056141

    "According to botanists (those who study plants) a fruit is the part of the plant that develops from a flower. It's also the section of the plant that contains the seeds. The other parts of plants are considered vegetables. These include the stems, leaves and roots — and even the flower bud.

    The following are technically fruits: avocado, beans, peapods, corn kernels, cucumbers, grains, nuts, olives peppers, pumpkin, squash, sunflower seeds and tomatoes. Vegetables include celery (stem), lettuce (leaves), cauliflower and broccoli (buds), and beets, carrots and potatoes (roots).

    From a culinary standpoint, vegetables are less sweet — or more savory — and served as part of the main dish. Fruits are more sweet and tart and are most often served as a dessert or snack. Both fruits and vegetables can be made into juice for a refreshing beverage. Some fruits are "grains" or "nuts" or "seeds" — and are served accordingly.

    Nutritionally speaking, fruits and vegetables are similar. Compared with animal products, they're generally lower in calories and fat, but higher in fiber. Fruits and vegetables also contain health-enhancing plant compounds such as antioxidants. And they're loaded with vitamins and minerals.

    One serving (half a cup) of most fruits has a bit more calories than one serving of vegetables. Exceptions would be dense, starchy vegetables such as potatoes or beets...."

    Here's a lighthearted look at the question: http://theplate.nationalgeographic.com/2015/02/09/fruit-or-vegetable/

    "Everybody knows the difference between a fruit and a vegetable, right? Fruits are tempting and scrumptious. Adam and Eve, unable to resist one, were booted from the blissful Garden of Eden; a fruit kicked off the Trojan War; and a fruit so seduced kidnapped Persephone in the Underworld that she simply couldn’t help taking a bite, thus landing the rest of us forevermore with the chilly season of winter. Vegetables don’t pack this kind of punch. Vegetables, traditionally, are the stuff kids push around on their plates and hide under their mashed potatoes.

    So what’s the real difference between fruits and vegetables? Which is which?

    To a botanist, a fruit is an entity that develops from the fertilized ovary of a flower. This means that tomatoes, squash, pumpkins, cucumbers, peppers, eggplants, corn kernels, and bean and pea pods are all fruits; so are apples, pears, peaches, apricots, melons and mangos. A vegetable, botanically, is any edible part of a plant that doesn’t happen to be a fruit, as in leaves (spinach, lettuce, cabbage), roots (carrots, beets, turnips), stems (asparagus), tubers (potatoes), bulbs (onions), and flowers (cauliflower and broccoli).

    Politically and culinarily, however, it’s a whole different ball game....

    “Botanically speaking,” said [former SC] Justice Gray, “tomatoes are the fruit of the vine, just as are cucumbers, squashes, beans and peas. But in the common language of the people…all these vegetables…are usually served at dinner in, with, or after the soup, fish, or meat, which constitute the principal part of the repast, and not, like fruits, generally as dessert.”

    This was neither the first nor the last time that the Supreme Court was forced to struggle with botanical definitions of food. In 1886, Justice Joseph Bradley in Robertson v. Salomon ruled that beans were vegetables. (The lawyer for the protesting importer, arguing that beans were seeds, pointed to garden catalogs; the defense countered with a dinner recipe for baked beans.) “The Supreme Court has just decided that beans are vegetables,” commented a gleeful Iowa newspaper. “This is rough on Boston. That cultured city can no longer push them on to a suffering world as fruit.”..."

    Anyway, back to pizza, probably the least "healthy" pizza I eat is a Chicago style deep-dish, and normally I eat it with spinach, mushrooms, and green peppers, so it has vegetables (spinach) whether one counts the tomatoes and peppers or not. I also agree with the poster who adds artichoke hearts, as those are delicious on pizza (a chain I like okay does those and spinach on a tomato-sauce-less pizza), and I also think broccoli and asparagus are often tasty on pizza. ;-)
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,454 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »

    Anyway, back to pizza, probably the least "healthy" pizza I eat is a Chicago style deep-dish, and normally I eat it with spinach, mushrooms, and green peppers, so it has vegetables (spinach) whether one counts the tomatoes and peppers or not. I also agree with the poster who adds artichoke hearts, as those are delicious on pizza (a chain I like okay does those and spinach on a tomato-sauce-less pizza), and I also think broccoli and asparagus are often tasty on pizza. ;-)

    QS_ec81c72489d64416a7e1b3ea939cd582.jpg

    This talk of vegetables on pizza reminds me of a recent Pixar movie, Inside Out.

  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Heh!

    (I need to see that one, I've heard it's really fun.)
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,454 Member
    ladyreva78 wrote: »
    Urg. Great... now I want pizza, but there's no way I have the calories for it today. At least, not for an amount that would satisfy me (no way I'm only eating a slice of my yummy, homemade pizza with Gorgonzola, ham, tomato sauce, onions and artichoke hearts). I guess I'll have to plan that for tomorrow.

    Would that be considered cheating? If you're planing for it? :confused:

    Really, what is considered cheating is totally up to the individual. Many of us plan for more indulgent meals on a regular basis (weekly for me) that still enable me to stay within my calorie goal (at maintenance now but also when I was losing) and many (myself included) also believe in working in foods you enjoy on a daily basis and never call it cheating.
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