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Cheat day..yes or no?
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midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »That's why I think it's important to understand how weight loss works. It's simply not physically possible to gain 4 lbs in a day, let alone if you are basically staying in maintenance calories (which is how I read "bit of a cheat day, not massively"). What is possible is for weight to fluctuate daily independent of what you eat, and what is also possible is for a major change in amount of sodium or carbs (or also other things like exercise) to lead to a big fluctuation of water. But unless preparing for a bikini competition or some such most people don't have reason to care about water weight.
The reason I think it's harmful to mistakenly think that these are fat changes and mean that eating at maintenance but pizza (or having one cookie or whatever) = weight gain is, well, it's not true and it's bad to believe things that aren't true, but also because it can lead to the idea that to diet correctly one must be very restrictive way beyond watching calories (or keep calories super low all the time, as some seem to think)* and that can lead to the idea that if you go off plan some day, well, then, it's ruined and might as well go nuts or feel bad about yourself.
For me, "cheating" wasn't a good concept because I easily fall into the "well, I cheated so it's a bad day, so I might as well make it worth it" or "it's already bad so eating more won't make it worse, I'll get back to it tomorrow or Monday or after Christmas or on Jan 1." (Did that repeatedly until I finally got serious in late Jan 2014, even though intellectually I knew it was stupid.)
Now, not saying anyone should have to eat anything they prefer not to, but I do think it's important to understand that eating a cheat food doesn't cause fat gain -- eating excessive calories do. And to lose 2 lb of fat you need around a deficit of 7000, so to gain 4 lb of fat you'd need a surplus of 14,000 calories.
*For example, there was a poster who claimed to gain on 1400 but lose 2 lb per week at 1200 which is simply again not possible.
A surplus of 14K calories in a day is possible. In fact, it isn't really that hard... I've had cheat days of far more than 14K surplus. Some of us have an appetite.
So you can throw down 12-14 pounds of ribeye steak in a day? Or maybe 10 cups/5 pounds of pure lard (100% fat, max possible calories)? C'mon now. We're pushing the boundaries of "speshul snowflake" here.7 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »That's why I think it's important to understand how weight loss works. It's simply not physically possible to gain 4 lbs in a day, let alone if you are basically staying in maintenance calories (which is how I read "bit of a cheat day, not massively"). What is possible is for weight to fluctuate daily independent of what you eat, and what is also possible is for a major change in amount of sodium or carbs (or also other things like exercise) to lead to a big fluctuation of water. But unless preparing for a bikini competition or some such most people don't have reason to care about water weight.
The reason I think it's harmful to mistakenly think that these are fat changes and mean that eating at maintenance but pizza (or having one cookie or whatever) = weight gain is, well, it's not true and it's bad to believe things that aren't true, but also because it can lead to the idea that to diet correctly one must be very restrictive way beyond watching calories (or keep calories super low all the time, as some seem to think)* and that can lead to the idea that if you go off plan some day, well, then, it's ruined and might as well go nuts or feel bad about yourself.
For me, "cheating" wasn't a good concept because I easily fall into the "well, I cheated so it's a bad day, so I might as well make it worth it" or "it's already bad so eating more won't make it worse, I'll get back to it tomorrow or Monday or after Christmas or on Jan 1." (Did that repeatedly until I finally got serious in late Jan 2014, even though intellectually I knew it was stupid.)
Now, not saying anyone should have to eat anything they prefer not to, but I do think it's important to understand that eating a cheat food doesn't cause fat gain -- eating excessive calories do. And to lose 2 lb of fat you need around a deficit of 7000, so to gain 4 lb of fat you'd need a surplus of 14,000 calories.
*For example, there was a poster who claimed to gain on 1400 but lose 2 lb per week at 1200 which is simply again not possible.
A surplus of 14K calories in a day is possible. In fact, it isn't really that hard... I've had cheat days of far more than 14K surplus. Some of us have an appetite.
Bit of a cheat day, not massively = 16,000 calories (maintenance + 14,000)? Yeah, I seriously doubt it. I mean, I know you have the best appetite, midwesterner, but it wasn't your post.
I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds it easy to eat a lot.
Yeah, those people are competitive eaters. There's not that many of those, they don't do it all the time and not because they feel like it but as the name implies as a competition. There's also some health problems associated with that.2 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »That's why I think it's important to understand how weight loss works. It's simply not physically possible to gain 4 lbs in a day, let alone if you are basically staying in maintenance calories (which is how I read "bit of a cheat day, not massively"). What is possible is for weight to fluctuate daily independent of what you eat, and what is also possible is for a major change in amount of sodium or carbs (or also other things like exercise) to lead to a big fluctuation of water. But unless preparing for a bikini competition or some such most people don't have reason to care about water weight.
The reason I think it's harmful to mistakenly think that these are fat changes and mean that eating at maintenance but pizza (or having one cookie or whatever) = weight gain is, well, it's not true and it's bad to believe things that aren't true, but also because it can lead to the idea that to diet correctly one must be very restrictive way beyond watching calories (or keep calories super low all the time, as some seem to think)* and that can lead to the idea that if you go off plan some day, well, then, it's ruined and might as well go nuts or feel bad about yourself.
For me, "cheating" wasn't a good concept because I easily fall into the "well, I cheated so it's a bad day, so I might as well make it worth it" or "it's already bad so eating more won't make it worse, I'll get back to it tomorrow or Monday or after Christmas or on Jan 1." (Did that repeatedly until I finally got serious in late Jan 2014, even though intellectually I knew it was stupid.)
Now, not saying anyone should have to eat anything they prefer not to, but I do think it's important to understand that eating a cheat food doesn't cause fat gain -- eating excessive calories do. And to lose 2 lb of fat you need around a deficit of 7000, so to gain 4 lb of fat you'd need a surplus of 14,000 calories.
*For example, there was a poster who claimed to gain on 1400 but lose 2 lb per week at 1200 which is simply again not possible.
A surplus of 14K calories in a day is possible. In fact, it isn't really that hard... I've had cheat days of far more than 14K surplus. Some of us have an appetite.
So you can throw down 12-14 pounds of ribeye steak in a day? Or maybe 10 cups/5 pounds of pure lard (100% fat, max possible calories)? C'mon now. We're pushing the boundaries of "speshul snowflake" here.
I don't think I've ever eaten pure lard for a day, but have had cheat days with several donuts, 4 lbs. (uncooked weight) spaghetti + sauce (including 2 lbs. sausage), pizzas, a few cakes, cookies, chips, and ice cream. Yes, there have been cheat days where I have logged in excess of 20K.
So not one of the overweight or formerly overweight people here are capable or have ever been capable of eating a big surplus the way I have?! I find that hard to believe. Still, I won't say it is "not possible."0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »That's why I think it's important to understand how weight loss works. It's simply not physically possible to gain 4 lbs in a day, let alone if you are basically staying in maintenance calories (which is how I read "bit of a cheat day, not massively"). What is possible is for weight to fluctuate daily independent of what you eat, and what is also possible is for a major change in amount of sodium or carbs (or also other things like exercise) to lead to a big fluctuation of water. But unless preparing for a bikini competition or some such most people don't have reason to care about water weight.
The reason I think it's harmful to mistakenly think that these are fat changes and mean that eating at maintenance but pizza (or having one cookie or whatever) = weight gain is, well, it's not true and it's bad to believe things that aren't true, but also because it can lead to the idea that to diet correctly one must be very restrictive way beyond watching calories (or keep calories super low all the time, as some seem to think)* and that can lead to the idea that if you go off plan some day, well, then, it's ruined and might as well go nuts or feel bad about yourself.
For me, "cheating" wasn't a good concept because I easily fall into the "well, I cheated so it's a bad day, so I might as well make it worth it" or "it's already bad so eating more won't make it worse, I'll get back to it tomorrow or Monday or after Christmas or on Jan 1." (Did that repeatedly until I finally got serious in late Jan 2014, even though intellectually I knew it was stupid.)
Now, not saying anyone should have to eat anything they prefer not to, but I do think it's important to understand that eating a cheat food doesn't cause fat gain -- eating excessive calories do. And to lose 2 lb of fat you need around a deficit of 7000, so to gain 4 lb of fat you'd need a surplus of 14,000 calories.
*For example, there was a poster who claimed to gain on 1400 but lose 2 lb per week at 1200 which is simply again not possible.
A surplus of 14K calories in a day is possible. In fact, it isn't really that hard... I've had cheat days of far more than 14K surplus. Some of us have an appetite.
So you can throw down 12-14 pounds of ribeye steak in a day? Or maybe 10 cups/5 pounds of pure lard (100% fat, max possible calories)? C'mon now. We're pushing the boundaries of "speshul snowflake" here.
I don't think I've ever eaten pure lard for a day, but have had cheat days with several donuts, 4 lbs. (uncooked weight) spaghetti + sauce (including 2 lbs. sausage), pizzas, a few cakes, cookies, chips, and ice cream. Yes, there have been cheat days where I have logged in excess of 20K.
So not one of the overweight or formerly overweight people here are capable or have ever been capable of eating a big surplus the way I have?! I find that hard to believe. Still, I won't say it is "not possible."
I also agree that for the vast majority this would be impossible to achieve and certainly an unlikely regular occurrence.
But do you really think it is relevant for the poster who was concerned that she went from a 2 lb loss to a 4 lb gain in one weekend after a cheat meal? Do you really think the likely situation is that she consumed these vast quantities of foods that you indicate are possible? Or.... do you think it is far more likely that she probably had some temporary water retention from an increase in sodium, carbs, or both on a cheat day that was maybe 1000 or so cals above her norm?
You seem determined to bring in your individual experience into these threads as if it is representative for the rest of the population, derailing the thread into another argument with people disputing your claims or arguing over semantics, which is just not helpful.9 -
To the OPs question - I'm not always successful, but I try to not do "cheat" days or meals, and haven't for some time. I've found that if I budget my calories properly I can leave myself room for whatever snack I may want.
That said, there have been days I've busted my goal by 200 calories or so, but that's not going to destroy my gains for a day or a week etc. I also don't get random temptations that much any more, and I think that's because I allow myself some leeway and do regularly snack.
Heh, I even made a thread recently about cheating lol, when in reality, the extent that I cheat to doesn't have any long term impact on my weight or health.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »That's why I think it's important to understand how weight loss works. It's simply not physically possible to gain 4 lbs in a day, let alone if you are basically staying in maintenance calories (which is how I read "bit of a cheat day, not massively"). What is possible is for weight to fluctuate daily independent of what you eat, and what is also possible is for a major change in amount of sodium or carbs (or also other things like exercise) to lead to a big fluctuation of water. But unless preparing for a bikini competition or some such most people don't have reason to care about water weight.
The reason I think it's harmful to mistakenly think that these are fat changes and mean that eating at maintenance but pizza (or having one cookie or whatever) = weight gain is, well, it's not true and it's bad to believe things that aren't true, but also because it can lead to the idea that to diet correctly one must be very restrictive way beyond watching calories (or keep calories super low all the time, as some seem to think)* and that can lead to the idea that if you go off plan some day, well, then, it's ruined and might as well go nuts or feel bad about yourself.
For me, "cheating" wasn't a good concept because I easily fall into the "well, I cheated so it's a bad day, so I might as well make it worth it" or "it's already bad so eating more won't make it worse, I'll get back to it tomorrow or Monday or after Christmas or on Jan 1." (Did that repeatedly until I finally got serious in late Jan 2014, even though intellectually I knew it was stupid.)
Now, not saying anyone should have to eat anything they prefer not to, but I do think it's important to understand that eating a cheat food doesn't cause fat gain -- eating excessive calories do. And to lose 2 lb of fat you need around a deficit of 7000, so to gain 4 lb of fat you'd need a surplus of 14,000 calories.
*For example, there was a poster who claimed to gain on 1400 but lose 2 lb per week at 1200 which is simply again not possible.
A surplus of 14K calories in a day is possible. In fact, it isn't really that hard... I've had cheat days of far more than 14K surplus. Some of us have an appetite.
So you can throw down 12-14 pounds of ribeye steak in a day? Or maybe 10 cups/5 pounds of pure lard (100% fat, max possible calories)? C'mon now. We're pushing the boundaries of "speshul snowflake" here.
I don't think I've ever eaten pure lard for a day, but have had cheat days with several donuts, 4 lbs. (uncooked weight) spaghetti + sauce (including 2 lbs. sausage), pizzas, a few cakes, cookies, chips, and ice cream. Yes, there have been cheat days where I have logged in excess of 20K.
So not one of the overweight or formerly overweight people here are capable or have ever been capable of eating a big surplus the way I have?! I find that hard to believe. Still, I won't say it is "not possible."
I also agree that for the vast majority this would be impossible to achieve and certainly an unlikely regular occurrence.
But do you really think it is relevant for the poster who was concerned that she went from a 2 lb loss to a 4 lb gain in one weekend after a cheat meal? Do you really think the likely situation is that she consumed these vast quantities of foods that you indicate are possible? Or.... do you think it is far more likely that she probably had some temporary water retention from an increase in sodium, carbs, or both on a cheat day that was maybe 1000 or so cals above her norm?
You seem determined to bring in your individual experience into these threads as if it is representative for the rest of the population, derailing the thread into another argument with people disputing your claims or arguing over semantics, which is just not helpful.
The bolded. Relevance is a beautiful thing...3 -
WinoGelato wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »That's why I think it's important to understand how weight loss works. It's simply not physically possible to gain 4 lbs in a day, let alone if you are basically staying in maintenance calories (which is how I read "bit of a cheat day, not massively"). What is possible is for weight to fluctuate daily independent of what you eat, and what is also possible is for a major change in amount of sodium or carbs (or also other things like exercise) to lead to a big fluctuation of water. But unless preparing for a bikini competition or some such most people don't have reason to care about water weight.
The reason I think it's harmful to mistakenly think that these are fat changes and mean that eating at maintenance but pizza (or having one cookie or whatever) = weight gain is, well, it's not true and it's bad to believe things that aren't true, but also because it can lead to the idea that to diet correctly one must be very restrictive way beyond watching calories (or keep calories super low all the time, as some seem to think)* and that can lead to the idea that if you go off plan some day, well, then, it's ruined and might as well go nuts or feel bad about yourself.
For me, "cheating" wasn't a good concept because I easily fall into the "well, I cheated so it's a bad day, so I might as well make it worth it" or "it's already bad so eating more won't make it worse, I'll get back to it tomorrow or Monday or after Christmas or on Jan 1." (Did that repeatedly until I finally got serious in late Jan 2014, even though intellectually I knew it was stupid.)
Now, not saying anyone should have to eat anything they prefer not to, but I do think it's important to understand that eating a cheat food doesn't cause fat gain -- eating excessive calories do. And to lose 2 lb of fat you need around a deficit of 7000, so to gain 4 lb of fat you'd need a surplus of 14,000 calories.
*For example, there was a poster who claimed to gain on 1400 but lose 2 lb per week at 1200 which is simply again not possible.
A surplus of 14K calories in a day is possible. In fact, it isn't really that hard... I've had cheat days of far more than 14K surplus. Some of us have an appetite.
So you can throw down 12-14 pounds of ribeye steak in a day? Or maybe 10 cups/5 pounds of pure lard (100% fat, max possible calories)? C'mon now. We're pushing the boundaries of "speshul snowflake" here.
I don't think I've ever eaten pure lard for a day, but have had cheat days with several donuts, 4 lbs. (uncooked weight) spaghetti + sauce (including 2 lbs. sausage), pizzas, a few cakes, cookies, chips, and ice cream. Yes, there have been cheat days where I have logged in excess of 20K.
So not one of the overweight or formerly overweight people here are capable or have ever been capable of eating a big surplus the way I have?! I find that hard to believe. Still, I won't say it is "not possible."
I also agree that for the vast majority this would be impossible to achieve and certainly an unlikely regular occurrence.
But do you really think it is relevant for the poster who was concerned that she went from a 2 lb loss to a 4 lb gain in one weekend after a cheat meal? Do you really think the likely situation is that she consumed these vast quantities of foods that you indicate are possible? Or.... do you think it is far more likely that she probably had some temporary water retention from an increase in sodium, carbs, or both on a cheat day that was maybe 1000 or so cals above her norm?
You seem determined to bring in your individual experience into these threads as if it is representative for the rest of the population, derailing the thread into another argument with people disputing your claims or arguing over semantics, which is just not helpful.
OP's question was about our thoughts on a cheat day. My thoughts are that it can seriously set back weight loss. I say "can" and not "will" because there are a lot of variables. My experience is that scheduling a cheat day once every several months slows down weight loss significantly. A cheat day every month would negate deficits for the whole month and possibly cause a gain.
Are my thoughts and experiences on a cheat day relevant to OP's question about our thoughts on cheat days? Yes.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »That's why I think it's important to understand how weight loss works. It's simply not physically possible to gain 4 lbs in a day, let alone if you are basically staying in maintenance calories (which is how I read "bit of a cheat day, not massively"). What is possible is for weight to fluctuate daily independent of what you eat, and what is also possible is for a major change in amount of sodium or carbs (or also other things like exercise) to lead to a big fluctuation of water. But unless preparing for a bikini competition or some such most people don't have reason to care about water weight.
The reason I think it's harmful to mistakenly think that these are fat changes and mean that eating at maintenance but pizza (or having one cookie or whatever) = weight gain is, well, it's not true and it's bad to believe things that aren't true, but also because it can lead to the idea that to diet correctly one must be very restrictive way beyond watching calories (or keep calories super low all the time, as some seem to think)* and that can lead to the idea that if you go off plan some day, well, then, it's ruined and might as well go nuts or feel bad about yourself.
For me, "cheating" wasn't a good concept because I easily fall into the "well, I cheated so it's a bad day, so I might as well make it worth it" or "it's already bad so eating more won't make it worse, I'll get back to it tomorrow or Monday or after Christmas or on Jan 1." (Did that repeatedly until I finally got serious in late Jan 2014, even though intellectually I knew it was stupid.)
Now, not saying anyone should have to eat anything they prefer not to, but I do think it's important to understand that eating a cheat food doesn't cause fat gain -- eating excessive calories do. And to lose 2 lb of fat you need around a deficit of 7000, so to gain 4 lb of fat you'd need a surplus of 14,000 calories.
*For example, there was a poster who claimed to gain on 1400 but lose 2 lb per week at 1200 which is simply again not possible.
A surplus of 14K calories in a day is possible. In fact, it isn't really that hard... I've had cheat days of far more than 14K surplus. Some of us have an appetite.
So you can throw down 12-14 pounds of ribeye steak in a day? Or maybe 10 cups/5 pounds of pure lard (100% fat, max possible calories)? C'mon now. We're pushing the boundaries of "speshul snowflake" here.
I don't think I've ever eaten pure lard for a day, but have had cheat days with several donuts, 4 lbs. (uncooked weight) spaghetti + sauce (including 2 lbs. sausage), pizzas, a few cakes, cookies, chips, and ice cream. Yes, there have been cheat days where I have logged in excess of 20K.
So not one of the overweight or formerly overweight people here are capable or have ever been capable of eating a big surplus the way I have?! I find that hard to believe. Still, I won't say it is "not possible."
I also agree that for the vast majority this would be impossible to achieve and certainly an unlikely regular occurrence.
But do you really think it is relevant for the poster who was concerned that she went from a 2 lb loss to a 4 lb gain in one weekend after a cheat meal? Do you really think the likely situation is that she consumed these vast quantities of foods that you indicate are possible? Or.... do you think it is far more likely that she probably had some temporary water retention from an increase in sodium, carbs, or both on a cheat day that was maybe 1000 or so cals above her norm?
You seem determined to bring in your individual experience into these threads as if it is representative for the rest of the population, derailing the thread into another argument with people disputing your claims or arguing over semantics, which is just not helpful.
OP's question was about our thoughts on a cheat day. My thoughts are that it can seriously set back weight loss. I say "can" and not "will" because there are a lot of variables. My experience is that scheduling a cheat day once every several months slows down weight loss significantly. A cheat day every month would negate deficits for the whole month and possibly cause a gain.
Are my thoughts and experiences on a cheat day relevant to OP's question about our thoughts on cheat days? Yes.
If you are talking about a 14K+ cheat day then no, they are probably not relevant...3 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »That's why I think it's important to understand how weight loss works. It's simply not physically possible to gain 4 lbs in a day, let alone if you are basically staying in maintenance calories (which is how I read "bit of a cheat day, not massively"). What is possible is for weight to fluctuate daily independent of what you eat, and what is also possible is for a major change in amount of sodium or carbs (or also other things like exercise) to lead to a big fluctuation of water. But unless preparing for a bikini competition or some such most people don't have reason to care about water weight.
The reason I think it's harmful to mistakenly think that these are fat changes and mean that eating at maintenance but pizza (or having one cookie or whatever) = weight gain is, well, it's not true and it's bad to believe things that aren't true, but also because it can lead to the idea that to diet correctly one must be very restrictive way beyond watching calories (or keep calories super low all the time, as some seem to think)* and that can lead to the idea that if you go off plan some day, well, then, it's ruined and might as well go nuts or feel bad about yourself.
For me, "cheating" wasn't a good concept because I easily fall into the "well, I cheated so it's a bad day, so I might as well make it worth it" or "it's already bad so eating more won't make it worse, I'll get back to it tomorrow or Monday or after Christmas or on Jan 1." (Did that repeatedly until I finally got serious in late Jan 2014, even though intellectually I knew it was stupid.)
Now, not saying anyone should have to eat anything they prefer not to, but I do think it's important to understand that eating a cheat food doesn't cause fat gain -- eating excessive calories do. And to lose 2 lb of fat you need around a deficit of 7000, so to gain 4 lb of fat you'd need a surplus of 14,000 calories.
*For example, there was a poster who claimed to gain on 1400 but lose 2 lb per week at 1200 which is simply again not possible.
A surplus of 14K calories in a day is possible. In fact, it isn't really that hard... I've had cheat days of far more than 14K surplus. Some of us have an appetite.
So you can throw down 12-14 pounds of ribeye steak in a day? Or maybe 10 cups/5 pounds of pure lard (100% fat, max possible calories)? C'mon now. We're pushing the boundaries of "speshul snowflake" here.
I don't think I've ever eaten pure lard for a day, but have had cheat days with several donuts, 4 lbs. (uncooked weight) spaghetti + sauce (including 2 lbs. sausage), pizzas, a few cakes, cookies, chips, and ice cream. Yes, there have been cheat days where I have logged in excess of 20K.
So not one of the overweight or formerly overweight people here are capable or have ever been capable of eating a big surplus the way I have?! I find that hard to believe. Still, I won't say it is "not possible."
I also agree that for the vast majority this would be impossible to achieve and certainly an unlikely regular occurrence.
But do you really think it is relevant for the poster who was concerned that she went from a 2 lb loss to a 4 lb gain in one weekend after a cheat meal? Do you really think the likely situation is that she consumed these vast quantities of foods that you indicate are possible? Or.... do you think it is far more likely that she probably had some temporary water retention from an increase in sodium, carbs, or both on a cheat day that was maybe 1000 or so cals above her norm?
You seem determined to bring in your individual experience into these threads as if it is representative for the rest of the population, derailing the thread into another argument with people disputing your claims or arguing over semantics, which is just not helpful.
OP's question was about our thoughts on a cheat day. My thoughts are that it can seriously set back weight loss. I say "can" and not "will" because there are a lot of variables. My experience is that scheduling a cheat day once every several months slows down weight loss significantly. A cheat day every month would negate deficits for the whole month and possibly cause a gain.
Are my thoughts and experiences on a cheat day relevant to OP's question about our thoughts on cheat days? Yes.
If you are talking about a 14K+ cheat day then no, they are probably not relevant...
That's not a cheat day. That's more in the neighborhood of a binge.
To the OP, my thoughts on cheat days or meals... hmmm... I'm of two minds about this. I've read of a study where there was better dietary compliance among dieters who took the approach of scheduling cheat days or meals (within maintenance range of calories) regularly. So there's some good data supporting the idea.
I've also had personal experience with moderating treats to small portions and there are many who use this approach with great success. I'm currently struggling with being able to do this and am going to employ the scheduled cheat day (hello Christmas) approach for the time being until I can get to the root of what is causing my current problem.
I think there's validity to either approach. I think both are sustainable. I don't think either have long term affects on weight loss. The whole thing about weight management is that it's ongoing and you have to find a balance between losing weight and living life.
4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »That's why I think it's important to understand how weight loss works. It's simply not physically possible to gain 4 lbs in a day, let alone if you are basically staying in maintenance calories (which is how I read "bit of a cheat day, not massively"). What is possible is for weight to fluctuate daily independent of what you eat, and what is also possible is for a major change in amount of sodium or carbs (or also other things like exercise) to lead to a big fluctuation of water. But unless preparing for a bikini competition or some such most people don't have reason to care about water weight.
The reason I think it's harmful to mistakenly think that these are fat changes and mean that eating at maintenance but pizza (or having one cookie or whatever) = weight gain is, well, it's not true and it's bad to believe things that aren't true, but also because it can lead to the idea that to diet correctly one must be very restrictive way beyond watching calories (or keep calories super low all the time, as some seem to think)* and that can lead to the idea that if you go off plan some day, well, then, it's ruined and might as well go nuts or feel bad about yourself.
For me, "cheating" wasn't a good concept because I easily fall into the "well, I cheated so it's a bad day, so I might as well make it worth it" or "it's already bad so eating more won't make it worse, I'll get back to it tomorrow or Monday or after Christmas or on Jan 1." (Did that repeatedly until I finally got serious in late Jan 2014, even though intellectually I knew it was stupid.)
Now, not saying anyone should have to eat anything they prefer not to, but I do think it's important to understand that eating a cheat food doesn't cause fat gain -- eating excessive calories do. And to lose 2 lb of fat you need around a deficit of 7000, so to gain 4 lb of fat you'd need a surplus of 14,000 calories.
*For example, there was a poster who claimed to gain on 1400 but lose 2 lb per week at 1200 which is simply again not possible.
A surplus of 14K calories in a day is possible. In fact, it isn't really that hard... I've had cheat days of far more than 14K surplus. Some of us have an appetite.
So you can throw down 12-14 pounds of ribeye steak in a day? Or maybe 10 cups/5 pounds of pure lard (100% fat, max possible calories)? C'mon now. We're pushing the boundaries of "speshul snowflake" here.
I don't think I've ever eaten pure lard for a day, but have had cheat days with several donuts, 4 lbs. (uncooked weight) spaghetti + sauce (including 2 lbs. sausage), pizzas, a few cakes, cookies, chips, and ice cream. Yes, there have been cheat days where I have logged in excess of 20K.
So not one of the overweight or formerly overweight people here are capable or have ever been capable of eating a big surplus the way I have?! I find that hard to believe. Still, I won't say it is "not possible."
I also agree that for the vast majority this would be impossible to achieve and certainly an unlikely regular occurrence.
But do you really think it is relevant for the poster who was concerned that she went from a 2 lb loss to a 4 lb gain in one weekend after a cheat meal? Do you really think the likely situation is that she consumed these vast quantities of foods that you indicate are possible? Or.... do you think it is far more likely that she probably had some temporary water retention from an increase in sodium, carbs, or both on a cheat day that was maybe 1000 or so cals above her norm?
You seem determined to bring in your individual experience into these threads as if it is representative for the rest of the population, derailing the thread into another argument with people disputing your claims or arguing over semantics, which is just not helpful.
OP's question was about our thoughts on a cheat day. My thoughts are that it can seriously set back weight loss. I say "can" and not "will" because there are a lot of variables. My experience is that scheduling a cheat day once every several months slows down weight loss significantly. A cheat day every month would negate deficits for the whole month and possibly cause a gain.
Are my thoughts and experiences on a cheat day relevant to OP's question about our thoughts on cheat days? Yes.
If you are talking about a 14K+ cheat day then no, they are probably not relevant...
That's not a cheat day. That's more in the neighborhood of a binge.
Indeed...1 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »That's why I think it's important to understand how weight loss works. It's simply not physically possible to gain 4 lbs in a day, let alone if you are basically staying in maintenance calories (which is how I read "bit of a cheat day, not massively"). What is possible is for weight to fluctuate daily independent of what you eat, and what is also possible is for a major change in amount of sodium or carbs (or also other things like exercise) to lead to a big fluctuation of water. But unless preparing for a bikini competition or some such most people don't have reason to care about water weight.
The reason I think it's harmful to mistakenly think that these are fat changes and mean that eating at maintenance but pizza (or having one cookie or whatever) = weight gain is, well, it's not true and it's bad to believe things that aren't true, but also because it can lead to the idea that to diet correctly one must be very restrictive way beyond watching calories (or keep calories super low all the time, as some seem to think)* and that can lead to the idea that if you go off plan some day, well, then, it's ruined and might as well go nuts or feel bad about yourself.
For me, "cheating" wasn't a good concept because I easily fall into the "well, I cheated so it's a bad day, so I might as well make it worth it" or "it's already bad so eating more won't make it worse, I'll get back to it tomorrow or Monday or after Christmas or on Jan 1." (Did that repeatedly until I finally got serious in late Jan 2014, even though intellectually I knew it was stupid.)
Now, not saying anyone should have to eat anything they prefer not to, but I do think it's important to understand that eating a cheat food doesn't cause fat gain -- eating excessive calories do. And to lose 2 lb of fat you need around a deficit of 7000, so to gain 4 lb of fat you'd need a surplus of 14,000 calories.
*For example, there was a poster who claimed to gain on 1400 but lose 2 lb per week at 1200 which is simply again not possible.
A surplus of 14K calories in a day is possible. In fact, it isn't really that hard... I've had cheat days of far more than 14K surplus. Some of us have an appetite.
So you can throw down 12-14 pounds of ribeye steak in a day? Or maybe 10 cups/5 pounds of pure lard (100% fat, max possible calories)? C'mon now. We're pushing the boundaries of "speshul snowflake" here.
I don't think I've ever eaten pure lard for a day, but have had cheat days with several donuts, 4 lbs. (uncooked weight) spaghetti + sauce (including 2 lbs. sausage), pizzas, a few cakes, cookies, chips, and ice cream. Yes, there have been cheat days where I have logged in excess of 20K.
So not one of the overweight or formerly overweight people here are capable or have ever been capable of eating a big surplus the way I have?! I find that hard to believe. Still, I won't say it is "not possible."
I also agree that for the vast majority this would be impossible to achieve and certainly an unlikely regular occurrence.
But do you really think it is relevant for the poster who was concerned that she went from a 2 lb loss to a 4 lb gain in one weekend after a cheat meal? Do you really think the likely situation is that she consumed these vast quantities of foods that you indicate are possible? Or.... do you think it is far more likely that she probably had some temporary water retention from an increase in sodium, carbs, or both on a cheat day that was maybe 1000 or so cals above her norm?
You seem determined to bring in your individual experience into these threads as if it is representative for the rest of the population, derailing the thread into another argument with people disputing your claims or arguing over semantics, which is just not helpful.
OP's question was about our thoughts on a cheat day. My thoughts are that it can seriously set back weight loss. I say "can" and not "will" because there are a lot of variables. My experience is that scheduling a cheat day once every several months slows down weight loss significantly. A cheat day every month would negate deficits for the whole month and possibly cause a gain.
Are my thoughts and experiences on a cheat day relevant to OP's question about our thoughts on cheat days? Yes.
But you were responding to @lemurcat12 who was addressing another poster (not OP) who seemed to think that they had a 6 lb swing (2 lbs down to 4 lbs up) in one weekend because of a cheat meal/day. @lemurcat12 was trying to explain to that poster that it was not likely true fat gain, unless she had eaten a surplus of 14K calories, which is EXTREMELY unlikely. You jumped in with the claim that it is not that far fetched, and again, what people are trying to tell you is that yes, that is far fetched, or an anomaly, or you are just special with your ability to consume 3.5x more in a cheat day than what the average poster is talking about.
So no, I don't think you are actually posting thoughts and experiences relevant to either OP's question or that poster in question's experience either. I think you are making an outlandish claim to try to demonstrate how unique your individual situation is without regard for whether or not this is relevant or helpful to ANY poster in this thread.
It's a public forum and you are certainly free to post your own experiences - but I ask you, with all sincerity, do you really think that comments such as these are relevant for the community at large?8 -
WinoGelato wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »That's why I think it's important to understand how weight loss works. It's simply not physically possible to gain 4 lbs in a day, let alone if you are basically staying in maintenance calories (which is how I read "bit of a cheat day, not massively"). What is possible is for weight to fluctuate daily independent of what you eat, and what is also possible is for a major change in amount of sodium or carbs (or also other things like exercise) to lead to a big fluctuation of water. But unless preparing for a bikini competition or some such most people don't have reason to care about water weight.
The reason I think it's harmful to mistakenly think that these are fat changes and mean that eating at maintenance but pizza (or having one cookie or whatever) = weight gain is, well, it's not true and it's bad to believe things that aren't true, but also because it can lead to the idea that to diet correctly one must be very restrictive way beyond watching calories (or keep calories super low all the time, as some seem to think)* and that can lead to the idea that if you go off plan some day, well, then, it's ruined and might as well go nuts or feel bad about yourself.
For me, "cheating" wasn't a good concept because I easily fall into the "well, I cheated so it's a bad day, so I might as well make it worth it" or "it's already bad so eating more won't make it worse, I'll get back to it tomorrow or Monday or after Christmas or on Jan 1." (Did that repeatedly until I finally got serious in late Jan 2014, even though intellectually I knew it was stupid.)
Now, not saying anyone should have to eat anything they prefer not to, but I do think it's important to understand that eating a cheat food doesn't cause fat gain -- eating excessive calories do. And to lose 2 lb of fat you need around a deficit of 7000, so to gain 4 lb of fat you'd need a surplus of 14,000 calories.
*For example, there was a poster who claimed to gain on 1400 but lose 2 lb per week at 1200 which is simply again not possible.
A surplus of 14K calories in a day is possible. In fact, it isn't really that hard... I've had cheat days of far more than 14K surplus. Some of us have an appetite.
So you can throw down 12-14 pounds of ribeye steak in a day? Or maybe 10 cups/5 pounds of pure lard (100% fat, max possible calories)? C'mon now. We're pushing the boundaries of "speshul snowflake" here.
I don't think I've ever eaten pure lard for a day, but have had cheat days with several donuts, 4 lbs. (uncooked weight) spaghetti + sauce (including 2 lbs. sausage), pizzas, a few cakes, cookies, chips, and ice cream. Yes, there have been cheat days where I have logged in excess of 20K.
So not one of the overweight or formerly overweight people here are capable or have ever been capable of eating a big surplus the way I have?! I find that hard to believe. Still, I won't say it is "not possible."
I also agree that for the vast majority this would be impossible to achieve and certainly an unlikely regular occurrence.
But do you really think it is relevant for the poster who was concerned that she went from a 2 lb loss to a 4 lb gain in one weekend after a cheat meal? Do you really think the likely situation is that she consumed these vast quantities of foods that you indicate are possible? Or.... do you think it is far more likely that she probably had some temporary water retention from an increase in sodium, carbs, or both on a cheat day that was maybe 1000 or so cals above her norm?
You seem determined to bring in your individual experience into these threads as if it is representative for the rest of the population, derailing the thread into another argument with people disputing your claims or arguing over semantics, which is just not helpful.
The bolded. Relevance is a beautiful thing...
As is one of my other favorite phrases, "context and dosage". The poster in question is a 20 year old female who, like many other young adults, probably hasn't had a lot of experience with CICO, the body's natural weight fluctuations, etc. She mentioned having "a bit of a cheat" and thought that led to a 4 lb weight gain so she said she was never going to do that again. The likely scenario is that she probably consumed an extra 500-1000 cals above her goal or her maintenance level (that's what most people consider a cheat I think) and had water retention from excess sodium and carbs. A very experienced, helpful poster, @lemurcat12 tried to put that into context for the young person, showing that mathematically she would have had to consume 14K calories above her maintenance level to see that 4 lb gain. That is meant to provide the context and the perspective that so many inexperienced members are lacking, which can be a very enlightening message to receive.
But instead, we are now derailed into an argument of whether it is possible to consume 14K calories in a day. Is it? Sure, I suppose. Do ANY of us think that is what @izzybbz consumed on her "cheat day"? Come on now... let's be honest @midwesterner85 .3 -
Let's also recall that said cheat day was described as "bit of a cheat day, not massively."
As for: "but have had cheat days with several donuts, 4 lbs. (uncooked weight) spaghetti + sauce (including 2 lbs. sausage), pizzas, a few cakes, cookies, chips, and ice cream. Yes, there have been cheat days where I have logged in excess of 20K."
"Several donuts" -- I checked Dunkin Donuts and most of the donuts seem to be around 300 calories or so. So aiming at 16K, let's say 20% is donuts. That's 10 donuts. No, I don't really think most people could eat 10 donuts at a time without it being a binge. I don't think "hunger" would do it.
I don't think most people could eat anywhere near 8 lb of cooked spaghetti -- that's insane. To put into standard serving size terms, a typical serving size in the US is 2 oz (which I think is plenty, although before I was measuring and logging I'd easily eat 4 oz, find it a bit more than I wanted, but finish it, because I'd cooked it). That's uncooked and is about .5 cup dry. So you are talking about 32x the standard serving size or 16 cups uncooked and double that cooked. I've been to a number of Italian places known for stupidly large serving sizes (Maggiano's is one), and it's way, way, way, way smaller than that, and large men have been unable to finish it.
But sure, let's say we eat our 10 donuts for breakfast (yeah, right) and go to Maggiano's for lunch. We will have stuffed mushrooms for an appetizer (550 cal), and then Country Style pasta (1560) for another about 2110 calories, and that's a huge, gigantic meal. Then we will finish with dessert: cheesecake is about 1000 (I was going to have tiramisu, but it's lower cal). So this is another 20%.
You want pizza for dinner, it seems, and we have 60% of our 16K to consume, so that's another 9600 calories. How much pizza do you need to eat? Well, we can go to Lou Malnati's (Chicago pizza chain) and get a large deep dish sausage pizza for 2200, which leaves us with a lot of calories, so let's go to Domino's too and get 2 (2!) medium pan pizzas (Deluxe) for not quite 5000 calories. That's an insane amount of food, and yet we have 2400 calories left, so could fit in a another large Lou Malnati deep dish and a donut for a midnight snack.
So no, I don't think that's something that's common or what anyone with a healthy appetite can do or would dream of doing basically ever. I don't believe it, to be frank.
And I find it kind of irritating, since it plays into this idea that fat people are fat because they eat in this kind of insane, gorge until they must need to vomit kind of way, and in a way that everyone would have to realize is extreme and unhealthy. The truth is it's easy to become overweight in more mundane ways -- overeating a little over time or having food items that add up to more than you would think or some mindless snacking.6 -
Bigger point, as winogelato said: NOT relevant to "bit of a cheat day" that led to a big swing on the scale.4
-
As I keep saying, I don't like the term "cheat day," but I think we need to be aware that people use it differently. It rarely means absolutely insane eat everything in the house kind of blow-out, though, from what I can tell. Various ways it is used:
(1) Day I don't log;
(2) Day I eat foods not on my usual plan;
(3) (related to 2) Day I go off a specific diet I am doing (low carb or paleo or something of that sort);
(4) Day I eat over calories (planned into the week);
(5) Day I eat over calories (not planned into the week);
(6) Day I have one meal that is extra indulgent, but logged;
(7) Day I have one meal that is not logged (sometimes extra indulgent, sometimes not);
(8) Day at maintenance when otherwise dieting;
(9) Many others.
Not sure why some insist on thinking "cheat day" must be absolutely crazy eat an enormous amount of food kind of day. Some use it in that sense, but many do not.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Not sure why some insist on thinking "cheat day" must be absolutely crazy eat an enormous amount of food kind of day. Some use it in that sense, but many do not.
A cheat day for my wife is half a cup of ice cream every couple of weeks.
Then again, she's disgustingly well balanced.
That's her "cheat" day though. 3 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »As I keep saying, I don't like the term "cheat day," but I think we need to be aware that people use it differently. It rarely means absolutely insane eat everything in the house kind of blow-out, though, from what I can tell. Various ways it is used:
(1) Day I don't log;
(2) Day I eat foods not on my usual plan;
(3) (related to 2) Day I go off a specific diet I am doing (low carb or paleo or something of that sort);
(4) Day I eat over calories (planned into the week);
(5) Day I eat over calories (not planned into the week);
(6) Day I have one meal that is extra indulgent, but logged;
(7) Day I have one meal that is not logged (sometimes extra indulgent, sometimes not);
(8) Day at maintenance when otherwise dieting;
(9) Many others.
Not sure why some insist on thinking "cheat day" must be absolutely crazy eat an enormous amount of food kind of day. Some use it in that sense, but many do not.
Good points here. As I said above, I am currently having trouble moderating, and one of my issues with moderating is because I'm a volume eater. There's a study I've seen mentioned by Lyle McDonald about people who incorporate the concept of treat/cheat/indulgence days/meals into their diet plans. I'm going to do that when I go back to eating at deficit after Christmas, and they will be planned maintenance days where I plan food/treats that I'm not currently eating regularly like cake or cookies.1 -
WinoGelato wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »That's why I think it's important to understand how weight loss works. It's simply not physically possible to gain 4 lbs in a day, let alone if you are basically staying in maintenance calories (which is how I read "bit of a cheat day, not massively"). What is possible is for weight to fluctuate daily independent of what you eat, and what is also possible is for a major change in amount of sodium or carbs (or also other things like exercise) to lead to a big fluctuation of water. But unless preparing for a bikini competition or some such most people don't have reason to care about water weight.
The reason I think it's harmful to mistakenly think that these are fat changes and mean that eating at maintenance but pizza (or having one cookie or whatever) = weight gain is, well, it's not true and it's bad to believe things that aren't true, but also because it can lead to the idea that to diet correctly one must be very restrictive way beyond watching calories (or keep calories super low all the time, as some seem to think)* and that can lead to the idea that if you go off plan some day, well, then, it's ruined and might as well go nuts or feel bad about yourself.
For me, "cheating" wasn't a good concept because I easily fall into the "well, I cheated so it's a bad day, so I might as well make it worth it" or "it's already bad so eating more won't make it worse, I'll get back to it tomorrow or Monday or after Christmas or on Jan 1." (Did that repeatedly until I finally got serious in late Jan 2014, even though intellectually I knew it was stupid.)
Now, not saying anyone should have to eat anything they prefer not to, but I do think it's important to understand that eating a cheat food doesn't cause fat gain -- eating excessive calories do. And to lose 2 lb of fat you need around a deficit of 7000, so to gain 4 lb of fat you'd need a surplus of 14,000 calories.
*For example, there was a poster who claimed to gain on 1400 but lose 2 lb per week at 1200 which is simply again not possible.
A surplus of 14K calories in a day is possible. In fact, it isn't really that hard... I've had cheat days of far more than 14K surplus. Some of us have an appetite.
So you can throw down 12-14 pounds of ribeye steak in a day? Or maybe 10 cups/5 pounds of pure lard (100% fat, max possible calories)? C'mon now. We're pushing the boundaries of "speshul snowflake" here.
I don't think I've ever eaten pure lard for a day, but have had cheat days with several donuts, 4 lbs. (uncooked weight) spaghetti + sauce (including 2 lbs. sausage), pizzas, a few cakes, cookies, chips, and ice cream. Yes, there have been cheat days where I have logged in excess of 20K.
So not one of the overweight or formerly overweight people here are capable or have ever been capable of eating a big surplus the way I have?! I find that hard to believe. Still, I won't say it is "not possible."
I also agree that for the vast majority this would be impossible to achieve and certainly an unlikely regular occurrence.
But do you really think it is relevant for the poster who was concerned that she went from a 2 lb loss to a 4 lb gain in one weekend after a cheat meal? Do you really think the likely situation is that she consumed these vast quantities of foods that you indicate are possible? Or.... do you think it is far more likely that she probably had some temporary water retention from an increase in sodium, carbs, or both on a cheat day that was maybe 1000 or so cals above her norm?
You seem determined to bring in your individual experience into these threads as if it is representative for the rest of the population, derailing the thread into another argument with people disputing your claims or arguing over semantics, which is just not helpful.
OP's question was about our thoughts on a cheat day. My thoughts are that it can seriously set back weight loss. I say "can" and not "will" because there are a lot of variables. My experience is that scheduling a cheat day once every several months slows down weight loss significantly. A cheat day every month would negate deficits for the whole month and possibly cause a gain.
Are my thoughts and experiences on a cheat day relevant to OP's question about our thoughts on cheat days? Yes.
But you were responding to @lemurcat12 who was addressing another poster (not OP) who seemed to think that they had a 6 lb swing (2 lbs down to 4 lbs up) in one weekend because of a cheat meal/day. @lemurcat12 was trying to explain to that poster that it was not likely true fat gain, unless she had eaten a surplus of 14K calories, which is EXTREMELY unlikely. You jumped in with the claim that it is not that far fetched, and again, what people are trying to tell you is that yes, that is far fetched, or an anomaly, or you are just special with your ability to consume 3.5x more in a cheat day than what the average poster is talking about.
So no, I don't think you are actually posting thoughts and experiences relevant to either OP's question or that poster in question's experience either. I think you are making an outlandish claim to try to demonstrate how unique your individual situation is without regard for whether or not this is relevant or helpful to ANY poster in this thread.
It's a public forum and you are certainly free to post your own experiences - but I ask you, with all sincerity, do you really think that comments such as these are relevant for the community at large?
@lemurcat12 said "not physically possible," not "extremely unlikely." THAT is what I was responding to initially, without addressing other comments from those who have shared other experiences, thoughts, etc.
OP's question was not about "cheat days less than X Calories." It doesn't matter how "outlandish" you think my experience is, nor do I believe my experience is truly "unique." I believe there are very few willing to actually talk about eating that much, from among those who truly measure cheat days because of the social stigma involved... the notions that it is "outlandish" and "not physically possible" are barely even the tip of the iceberg representing that stigma.
Do I think my experience with cheat days is relevant to OP's question and for the community at large? Yes, with absolute sincerity. I do think that the discussion of relevance is off topic, though. So after this response, I'm going to leave the relevance debate to the rest of you. I'll answer your question for next time so you don't need to ask again (in this thread or any other thread): If I post something in a thread, I think it is relevant to the discussion in that thread.0 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »midwesterner85 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »That's why I think it's important to understand how weight loss works. It's simply not physically possible to gain 4 lbs in a day, let alone if you are basically staying in maintenance calories (which is how I read "bit of a cheat day, not massively"). What is possible is for weight to fluctuate daily independent of what you eat, and what is also possible is for a major change in amount of sodium or carbs (or also other things like exercise) to lead to a big fluctuation of water. But unless preparing for a bikini competition or some such most people don't have reason to care about water weight.
The reason I think it's harmful to mistakenly think that these are fat changes and mean that eating at maintenance but pizza (or having one cookie or whatever) = weight gain is, well, it's not true and it's bad to believe things that aren't true, but also because it can lead to the idea that to diet correctly one must be very restrictive way beyond watching calories (or keep calories super low all the time, as some seem to think)* and that can lead to the idea that if you go off plan some day, well, then, it's ruined and might as well go nuts or feel bad about yourself.
For me, "cheating" wasn't a good concept because I easily fall into the "well, I cheated so it's a bad day, so I might as well make it worth it" or "it's already bad so eating more won't make it worse, I'll get back to it tomorrow or Monday or after Christmas or on Jan 1." (Did that repeatedly until I finally got serious in late Jan 2014, even though intellectually I knew it was stupid.)
Now, not saying anyone should have to eat anything they prefer not to, but I do think it's important to understand that eating a cheat food doesn't cause fat gain -- eating excessive calories do. And to lose 2 lb of fat you need around a deficit of 7000, so to gain 4 lb of fat you'd need a surplus of 14,000 calories.
*For example, there was a poster who claimed to gain on 1400 but lose 2 lb per week at 1200 which is simply again not possible.
A surplus of 14K calories in a day is possible. In fact, it isn't really that hard... I've had cheat days of far more than 14K surplus. Some of us have an appetite.
So you can throw down 12-14 pounds of ribeye steak in a day? Or maybe 10 cups/5 pounds of pure lard (100% fat, max possible calories)? C'mon now. We're pushing the boundaries of "speshul snowflake" here.
I don't think I've ever eaten pure lard for a day, but have had cheat days with several donuts, 4 lbs. (uncooked weight) spaghetti + sauce (including 2 lbs. sausage), pizzas, a few cakes, cookies, chips, and ice cream. Yes, there have been cheat days where I have logged in excess of 20K.
So not one of the overweight or formerly overweight people here are capable or have ever been capable of eating a big surplus the way I have?! I find that hard to believe. Still, I won't say it is "not possible."
I also agree that for the vast majority this would be impossible to achieve and certainly an unlikely regular occurrence.
But do you really think it is relevant for the poster who was concerned that she went from a 2 lb loss to a 4 lb gain in one weekend after a cheat meal? Do you really think the likely situation is that she consumed these vast quantities of foods that you indicate are possible? Or.... do you think it is far more likely that she probably had some temporary water retention from an increase in sodium, carbs, or both on a cheat day that was maybe 1000 or so cals above her norm?
You seem determined to bring in your individual experience into these threads as if it is representative for the rest of the population, derailing the thread into another argument with people disputing your claims or arguing over semantics, which is just not helpful.
OP's question was about our thoughts on a cheat day. My thoughts are that it can seriously set back weight loss. I say "can" and not "will" because there are a lot of variables. My experience is that scheduling a cheat day once every several months slows down weight loss significantly. A cheat day every month would negate deficits for the whole month and possibly cause a gain.
Are my thoughts and experiences on a cheat day relevant to OP's question about our thoughts on cheat days? Yes.
But you were responding to @lemurcat12 who was addressing another poster (not OP) who seemed to think that they had a 6 lb swing (2 lbs down to 4 lbs up) in one weekend because of a cheat meal/day. @lemurcat12 was trying to explain to that poster that it was not likely true fat gain, unless she had eaten a surplus of 14K calories, which is EXTREMELY unlikely. You jumped in with the claim that it is not that far fetched, and again, what people are trying to tell you is that yes, that is far fetched, or an anomaly, or you are just special with your ability to consume 3.5x more in a cheat day than what the average poster is talking about.
So no, I don't think you are actually posting thoughts and experiences relevant to either OP's question or that poster in question's experience either. I think you are making an outlandish claim to try to demonstrate how unique your individual situation is without regard for whether or not this is relevant or helpful to ANY poster in this thread.
It's a public forum and you are certainly free to post your own experiences - but I ask you, with all sincerity, do you really think that comments such as these are relevant for the community at large?
@lemurcat12 said "not physically possible," not "extremely unlikely." THAT is what I was responding to initially, without addressing other comments from those who have shared other experiences, thoughts, etc.
OP's question was not about "cheat days less than X Calories." It doesn't matter how "outlandish" you think my experience is, nor do I believe my experience is truly "unique." I believe there are very few willing to actually talk about eating that much, from among those who truly measure cheat days because of the social stigma involved... the notions that it is "outlandish" and "not physically possible" are barely even the tip of the iceberg representing that stigma.
Do I think my experience with cheat days is relevant to OP's question and for the community at large? Yes, with absolute sincerity. I do think that the discussion of relevance is off topic, though. So after this response, I'm going to leave the relevance debate to the rest of you. I'll answer your question for next time so you don't need to ask again (in this thread or any other thread): If I post something in a thread, I think it is relevant to the discussion in that thread.
Please stop call what is disordered eating behavior a cheat day.6 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »As I keep saying, I don't like the term "cheat day," but I think we need to be aware that people use it differently. It rarely means absolutely insane eat everything in the house kind of blow-out, though, from what I can tell. Various ways it is used:
(1) Day I don't log;
(2) Day I eat foods not on my usual plan;
(3) (related to 2) Day I go off a specific diet I am doing (low carb or paleo or something of that sort);
(4) Day I eat over calories (planned into the week);
(5) Day I eat over calories (not planned into the week);
(6) Day I have one meal that is extra indulgent, but logged;
(7) Day I have one meal that is not logged (sometimes extra indulgent, sometimes not);
(8) Day at maintenance when otherwise dieting;
(9) Many others.
Not sure why some insist on thinking "cheat day" must be absolutely crazy eat an enormous amount of food kind of day. Some use it in that sense, but many do not.
Good points here. As I said above, I am currently having trouble moderating, and one of my issues with moderating is because I'm a volume eater. There's a study I've seen mentioned by Lyle McDonald about people who incorporate the concept of treat/cheat/indulgence days/meals into their diet plans. I'm going to do that when I go back to eating at deficit after Christmas, and they will be planned maintenance days where I plan food/treats that I'm not currently eating regularly like cake or cookies.
I did that when dieting (which I need to get back to, eventually, sigh). Basically, I dieted twice, once with MFP, one other time years ago (maintained the loss for years after that). Both times I found it helpful to include a maintenance day (it wasn't really as high as maintenance when I was logging with MFP, don't know the first time as I wasn't counting calories), where I just ate more, often because I worked in a more indulgent dinner, mainly (helpful as I tend to go out to restaurants with friends weekly and it's hard to count at local places). But I never thought of it as going way, way over-the-top. It was more eating like I could if I were at maintenance. It was helpful in keeping me happy at lower calories the rest of the week and for whatever reason easier for me than simply eating a little more on all other days.0
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