The secret to building muscle
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I agree completely w/the basic principles stated by the OP that "calorie deficit" = "weight loss" and that "getting stronger" = "gaining muscle."
What is often not understood (especially here on MFP) is that, while one can lose weight and get stronger to a certain level of stasis, ultimately you cannot get stronger and gain muscle (if that is your primary goal) w/o also gaining weight, which is contrary to what so many people on MFP say they want to do, which is lose weight and get stronger.
It is a paradox of body recomposition that is a source of much confusion.
To be sure I understand, you are saying that people cannot gain muscle while losing weight, correct?0 -
KetoneKaren wrote: »I agree completely w/the basic principles stated by the OP that "calorie deficit" = "weight loss" and that "getting stronger" = "gaining muscle."
What is often not understood (especially here on MFP) is that, while one can lose weight and get stronger to a certain level of stasis, ultimately you cannot get stronger and gain muscle (if that is your primary goal) w/o also gaining weight, which is contrary to what so many people on MFP say they want to do, which is lose weight and get stronger.
It is a paradox of body recomposition that is a source of much confusion.
To be sure I understand, you are saying that people cannot gain muscle while losing weight, correct?
Only to a certain/small degree...0 -
Am I being ridiculous to want to be the exception?0
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Not at all - it's a great goal to have even if it doesn't work out you will have done the best you can.KetoneKaren wrote: »Am I being ridiculous to want to be the exception?
Funny enough nearly the whole debate around gaining muscle in a deficit is around the outcome and not the methods used. So whether you end up gaining some or just preserving the maximum amount of your existing muscle mass is a bit of a moot point.
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KetoneKaren wrote: »Am I being ridiculous to want to be the exception?
No, but it's kinda like the 'fitness' equivalent of wanting to be a multimillionaire & also wanting to relax everyday and never work
The two things oppose each other (mostly)1 -
KetoneKaren wrote: »Am I being ridiculous to want to be the exception?
Think of it this way - if you preserve the muscle you have while in a deficit, instead of shrinking down to a smaller version of your current self, you significantly change your body composition. You don't need to build new muscle while losing weight to see big benefits. If you're not happy when you get to goal, that's when you can think about recomping or gaining.2 -
The secret to building muscle is adequate calories and progressive overload, which doesn't necessarily come from adding strength.
And that is all!
I swear I was waiting for OP to say caloric surplus lol nope.
I do get stronger in a cut occasionally and I'm def not growing muscle in a cut bc science says I need a caloric surplus.
Now I do get stronger in a bulk yep bc I have more calories and carbs available to me.
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KetoneKaren wrote: »Am I being ridiculous to want to be the exception?
you are basically searching for the "holy grail" of lifting....so good luck ..but you would be better served looking at bulk/cut cycles or recomp ....1 -
KetoneKaren wrote: »Am I being ridiculous to want to be the exception?
Karen, I've personally lost weight and increased my lean body mass by 35lbs in a period of three months. This was driven by a variety of factors ranging from nutrition to how and when I was working out. The fact is that it is possible for you to increase lean body mass while losing weight, you just may not lose the weight as fast as you want to. Another fact is to help you lose weight you need to increase your lean body mass as this will increase your metabolic rate.
Now, as far as the OP. Yes, if you want to gain lean mass you need to get stronger. It is, but it isn't, that simple. If you are going to weight train you need to periodize your training to work your body through phases to put the entire picture together. For the 1st 4 weeks of any "strength" intervention you are making gains through improvements in your neuromuscular system, not and increase in mass. Your body is remembering how to do the movements and recruiting more of the right muscle fibers to do them thus making you more efficient.
After this phase you want to phase in a specific muscular growth phase commonly referred to as your hypertrophic (bulking) phase. This will increase the number of type IIx muscle fibers (think strength/power) in the muscle belly. After this phase is when you focus on the strength phase which will continue to have hypertrophic effects. If you follow your strength phase with a power phase you will be creating more explosive power in the muscle mass you have built and thus making your neuromuscular system more efficient, not necessarily making you stronger or improving lean body mass.
Each of these phases can be structured a variety of ways. I have been studying this for years and have a masters in Kinesiology with a focus on Sports Performance and am and NSCA CSCS certified strength coach. There are an abundant amount of theories and ways to address increasing lean body mass through proper progression and periodization. When I am training people I tell them to train like an athlete and that their sport is life. Whose theory I decide to use for that athlete depends on a wide variety of factors.
So the short answer is...as the OP said, you have to get stronger to increase mass. The long answer is you have to address each system to get stronger without injury and properly build the mass you are looking for.
All the best,
Scott
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Well it's not really a secret... just as needing a 'calorie deficit' to lose weight is not really a secret either
BUT, for one reason or another the concept of a calorie deficit is non existent to the overwhelmingly masses of the population
Add in the fact that there is a massive monopoly in the so called 'fitness industry' by insincere sales people who prefer to keep you confused as an easy ploy to take you're money, rather than help you achieve your goals, get a solid reputation and let their clients advertise your business as multiple walking, talking billboards.
(I'm all for the later)
Anyway, when it comes to losing fat the simple truth is that you need to create a caloric deficit.. that's it, there's no way around it. There's millions of ways to balance & adhere to a calorie deficit on a personal level... but none the less, you need to be in a calorie deficit.
So, on the flip flop (cool slang for flip slide, which is cool slang for opposite side) building muscle and gaining LEAN weight also comes down to ONE SIMPLE THING....
...but, just like the mythical fat loss solution (the calorie deficit) you're again never told what it is, because *kitten* usually sells better than truth.
Now before you even think about rubbishing this concept, just for a small moment try to recall some of the concepts that you were ADAMANT about before you came over to the good side & accepted that the calorie deficit was the God of fat loss... remember all those silly things you believed?
If you're looking to pack on new lean muscle tissue, you NEED to get stronger.
Yep, that's it.
FCK the fluff & pretty bb.com workout plans (they're created to sell you supplements by taking advantage of your naivety)
Just like the calorie deficit for fat loss, there is no way around this.
You HAVE to get stronger (if you're natural/not on steroids that is) if you want to get bigger
Have a quick cheeky read of this piece by the one & only great Dr Lyle McDonald
"Taking this out of the volume thread. For years I noticed that while natural bodybuilders often made no progress in muscle size, powerlifters always do. Always.
Here's why: powerlifting is BASED around adding weight to the bar. It's the explicit point of the sport. You can dick around bodybuilding with squeeze and pump and feel and find guys using the same weight for years.
And I don't care how much volume or frequency or anything else you're doing: adding weight to the bar > EVERYTHING else.
We knew this in the late 70's: PROGRESSIVE TENSION OVERLOAD is THE primary stimulus to growth. Everything else is secondary.
As Dante Trudell put it "Make strength gains in a moderate repetition range and you will grow." The end.
Or as I stated in that thread: find me a big natural bodybuilder who's not strong. Because I can find you thousands of small guys who are weak. And the difference is the last word of each sentence."
I'm doing a bb.com workout that is actually working. Yes, I'm in a caloric deficit and I've increase my protein intake and limited myself on carbs (not in ketosis). I've developed strength in my arms, back and legs. I am including a bit of cardio just to burn off excess energy that the strength training didn't rid; I'm not doing stable cardio, more on the lines of a HIIT concept. I don't buy any of the products from bb.com and I'm only taking protein shakes, that's it. Everything else is from the food I consume.
So it's not all bad on bb.com; their programs work as long as you stay committed to doing them. They aren't for everyone no, but it's something for me to try. Don't shy people away from an opportunity that bb.com may have for them. If it doesn't work, ok it didn't work; try something else. Give someone a chance and if they want a program from bb.com, let them have it. Don't deter them just because you have a strong opinion against bb.com.
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Did you really just say you added 35lbs of muscle in 3 months?5
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The Piana plan?6
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This would also mean you lost 44lbs of fat WHILE gaining 35lbs of muscle...all in 3 months, correct. Just want to make sure I'm reading this right.3
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Any PEDs involved and at what age?1
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Yes, I will admit I cheated to some extent. I was very active and broke my back, the recovery time from that attributed to me gaining the weight. When I was given the green light to train again I figured out real quick that I wasn't where I was before and that hitting up long distance runs actually helped ease some of the tightness and soreness in my back. By the time I had the Dexa I already had a base and was ready to start ramping up (this was my "start point"). I had a strength coach and nutritionist at my disposal as well as ample time to train due to the situation of me being allotted as much time as needed to get back to as close to 100% as I could.
I was getting after it alot, by the end, sometimes three times a day. I was also eating the cleanest I ever have and to be perfectly honest i had a hard time keeping up with the amount of calories I needed to intake. It got to the point at the end where it felt like I was either training, eating or sleeping.0 -
That's about 1 pound of muscle every three days alongside of fat loss.
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sunnybeaches105 wrote: »Any PEDs involved and at what age?
No PED's; 340 -
Thank you for the information. Appreciated the encouragement as well as the reality checks.
Karen0
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