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Losing weight and adding muscle at the same time?

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errollmaclean
errollmaclean Posts: 562 Member
in Debate Club
So I know you can’t gain muscle in a deficit, but I’ve always wondered; if you’re in a deficit wouldn’t your fat stores count as extra calories/available energy for your body to use? If your macros were on point wouldn’t your body get the rest from your fat stores? Or does it not work like that?

Isn’t this what happens in a recomp? Or is it just not optimal/incredibly inefficient during a cut? What am I missing?

Thanks for any information you guys have!
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Replies

  • dprisinger
    dprisinger Posts: 7 Member
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    Good question- I've been wondering this exact same thing. To me, there is already a caloric surplus if we are carrying body fat. I await responses...
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,575 Member
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    I've read this twice and I'm so dense I still can't remember exactly what it says, but I think it addresses what you are talking about.

    http://shreddedbyscience.com/can-you-gain-weight-in-a-calorie-deficit/
  • errollmaclean
    errollmaclean Posts: 562 Member
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    filbo132 wrote: »
    I think this will answer your question http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-to-build-muscle-and-lose-fat/

    Yeah, I've read that before. It doesn't really address anything other than general knowledge. I’m more curious about a detailed answer as to what's going on.
  • errollmaclean
    errollmaclean Posts: 562 Member
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    arditarose wrote: »
    I've read this twice and I'm so dense I still can't remember exactly what it says, but I think it addresses what you are talking about.

    http://shreddedbyscience.com/can-you-gain-weight-in-a-calorie-deficit/

    arditarose as always, you're impressive AND awesome!! Thanks!! If I'm reading it right, it seems to say it is possible?
  • errollmaclean
    errollmaclean Posts: 562 Member
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    http://shreddedbyscience.com/podcast/ They've got a podcast too!!
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,575 Member
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    errollmaclean wrote: »
    http://shreddedbyscience.com/podcast/ They've got a podcast too!!

    Yeah of course. Great podcast. @SideSteel is on the fireside chat episodes.
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,575 Member
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    errollmaclean wrote: »
    arditarose wrote: »
    I've read this twice and I'm so dense I still can't remember exactly what it says, but I think it addresses what you are talking about.

    http://shreddedbyscience.com/can-you-gain-weight-in-a-calorie-deficit/

    arditarose as always, you're impressive AND awesome!! Thanks!! If I'm reading it right, it seems to say it is possible?

    Yes. That's what I got from it. lol. I struggle in the sciences.
  • errollmaclean
    errollmaclean Posts: 562 Member
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    arditarose wrote: »
    errollmaclean wrote: »
    arditarose wrote: »
    I've read this twice and I'm so dense I still can't remember exactly what it says, but I think it addresses what you are talking about.

    http://shreddedbyscience.com/can-you-gain-weight-in-a-calorie-deficit/

    arditarose as always, you're impressive AND awesome!! Thanks!! If I'm reading it right, it seems to say it is possible?

    Yes. That's what I got from it. lol. I struggle in the sciences.

    Lol, I was hoping you'd explain it to me.
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,575 Member
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    Maybe I'll call a few smarties up in here to give us cliffs
  • errollmaclean
    errollmaclean Posts: 562 Member
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    Haha, do we get gold stars if we got the answer right!?
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,575 Member
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    errollmaclean wrote: »
    Haha, do we get gold stars if we got the answer right!?

    No...you gain .25lbs of muscle while losing fat if you get it right
  • errollmaclean
    errollmaclean Posts: 562 Member
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    LMAO :D
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    arditarose wrote: »
    errollmaclean wrote: »
    http://shreddedbyscience.com/podcast/ They've got a podcast too!!

    Yeah of course. Great podcast. @SideSteel is on the fireside chat episodes.

    Thanks for the mention.

    Lawrence and I will probably be recording another one this week, and we have a few good upcoming ideas =)

    We will be discussing coaching sometime soon.
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
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    errollmaclean wrote: »
    So I know you can’t gain muscle in a deficit, but I’ve always wondered; if you’re in a deficit wouldn’t your fat stores count as extra calories/available energy for your body to use? If your macros were on point wouldn’t your body get the rest from your fat stores? Or does it not work like that?

    Isn’t this what happens in a recomp? Or is it just not optimal/incredibly inefficient during a cut? What am I missing?

    Thanks for any information you guys have!

    From what I have read, it can be possible for this to happen. It was in an article by Lyle McDonald where he talked about how in very overweight individuals it can be possible for the body to take energy out of fat cells to create muscle (as a result of some amount of insulin resistance + added training). It is pretty interesting if you want to have a read:

    bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html/
  • sardelsa
    sardelsa Posts: 9,812 Member
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    Noel_57 wrote: »
    sardelsa wrote: »
    From what I have read, it can be possible for this to happen. It was in an article by Lyle McDonald where he talked about how in very overweight individuals it can be possible for the body to take energy out of fat cells to create muscle (as a result of some amount of insulin resistance + added training). It is pretty interesting if you want to have a read:
    But I thought muscle was created from amino acids i.e. dietary protein, and not fat calories.

    While the building blocks of muscle are amino acids, in order for them to grow energy (ie. calories) is required which is why protein is important but overall caloric intake is more so when building muscle. Actually carb intake during a bulk is essential for optimum growth as insulin (in response to glucose) helps the signalling pathways to create muscle, again explaining why those overweight individuals with insulin resistance who have insulin floating around are more likely to create muscle in a deficit. (science nerds and anyone interested can have a read here: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3376019/ )

  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,389 MFP Moderator
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    errollmaclean wrote: »
    So I know you can’t gain muscle in a deficit, but I’ve always wondered; if you’re in a deficit wouldn’t your fat stores count as extra calories/available energy for your body to use? If your macros were on point wouldn’t your body get the rest from your fat stores? Or does it not work like that?

    Isn’t this what happens in a recomp? Or is it just not optimal/incredibly inefficient during a cut? What am I missing?

    Thanks for any information you guys have!

    So you definitely can gain muscle in a deficit, but not to the extent that you can in surplus, and not as efficiently. And even then, a recomp would be even more efficient due to the increase in available energy. Of course this is completely predicated on several things: current body composition, training stimulate, macronutrient composition (low carb/keto makes it a low hard due to the down-regulation in testosterone/insulin IIRC), genetics, age, returning to training, etc..

  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
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    Not being able to gain in a deficit is the general rule, but it's not hard in fast. Train hard enough, get enough protein and keep your overall deficit slight and it can be done. Throughout the day, our body is in a deficit and surplus based on meals. Haven't eaten in 9 hours after sleep? You are in a deficit. Eat a 1000 calorie meal at lunch? You are in a surplus. How much you gain and how slow it will be and how to "perfect" it is the hard part.
  • BillMcKay1
    BillMcKay1 Posts: 315 Member
    edited August 2016
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    errollmaclean wrote: »
    So I know you can’t gain muscle in a deficit, but I’ve always wondered; if you’re in a deficit wouldn’t your fat stores count as extra calories/available energy for your body to use? If your macros were on point wouldn’t your body get the rest from your fat stores? Or does it not work like that?

    Isn’t this what happens in a recomp? Or is it just not optimal/incredibly inefficient during a cut? What am I missing?

    Thanks for any information you guys have!

    You can build muscle in a deficit. Not efficiently and not as well as a surplus. Results are actually pretty decent in obese untrained individuals as per this study from MacMasters Uni study.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/01/160127132741.htm


    The more trained you get and fitter you get the less efficient it is until it basically isn't worth the effort. But for many people here starting with a lot of weight to lose and fairly untrained, they can and will add muscle while in a deficit with sufficient protein and on a good progressively loading resistance training program.

    Here is a decent vid from ERic Helms

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFo_wQq8M3Q

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