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Protein intake to maintain optimum physical performance myth?
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CorneliusPhoton wrote: »Sources for that?
What I found:
http://www.everydayhealth.com/columns/health-answers/what-your-pee-is-telling-you/Cloudy urine has been found to suggest the presence of phosphates, which can be a precursor to kidney stones. Cloudiness can also indicate an infection. If cloudiness worsens and you experience burning or urgency, make sure to see a doctor.
Here is what I found:
https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/kidney-disease/proteinuria/Pages/facts.aspxMost proteins are too big to pass through the kidneys' filters into the urine. However, proteins from the blood can leak into the urine when the filters of the kidney, called glomeruli, are damaged.
Look up Transient Proteinuria. It can be caused by a lot of things, unfortunately most just seem to click the first Google link after typing "protein in urine" and then freak the hell out.1 -
I look for the first reliable source -- like mayo clinic, NIH, or sometimes an educational institution or a .org
Still looking for one that says anything about dietary causes.0 -
Main reason I rejected trying to be vegan...............................there are no plants that taste and have the texture of bacon. Or any meat for that matter.BillMcKay1 wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
I could not disagree more with your vegan nonsense. I watched my uncle develop type 2 diabetes after going vegan and cutting out meat and extra protein. He has a healthy BMI, etc. but developed diabetes after eating extra carbs for many years which affected his insulin sensitivity in the long run.
It may work for YOU but will not work for the majority of people. Plain and simple: humans evolved to eat animals.
It's most definitely nonsense. I recovered from two eating disorders by S twitching to vegan, I found a hobby I like to do. My sleep improved, my poop has improved, my skin has improved, my happiness has improved. I have never, ever, felt better. I know that veganism is a blessing in my life, I don't know why it doesn't work for some people, that makes me sad about your uncle, but I just want everyone to feel as good as I do, and if that means trying veganism and having it work for them, then great I helped someone. If it doesn't work (and someone has really really tried it) then oh well, go back to the standard American diet. I just know that it's made so much sense to me personally to go vegan and I don't personally want to go back.
More power to ya I guess. Bacon is a blessing in my life, but I don't go around proselytizing the blessings of bacon..
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Oops, I must have fat fingered the conversion calculation. That was ironicstevencloser wrote: »The_Enginerd wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Personal experience:
Bodybuilding requirements (1 - 1.5 g / lb of bodyweight): Overkill for the average person looking to drop fat and look good. Likely started as a way to cash in on the increasing popularity of whey protein supplements.
RDA: .8 / kg of bodyweight: Probably too low especially as people age. I don't have much experience as I get much more than this amount just by eating foods I enjoy. You can find older studies where the 'high protein' group is around the RDA and show improved body composition results with the RDA.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and as long as you are getting some protein at every meal you don't need to stress out about the specifics. If you are serious about squeezing every ounce of your genetic muscle mass potenital on your body then this changes.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but your first one was per lbs. and your second was per kg...and the second one, which you called low, is higher than the first, which you called overkill.
Do the math again... the first one is higher. A lot higher.
At 150 lbs (54.5 kg), the RDA gives me 44g of protein. The body building one would give me 150-225g of protein.
150 lbs is more like 68 kg.
That still only give me 54g vs. the 150-225g recommendation.
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Main reason I rejected trying to be vegan...............................there are no plants that taste and have the texture of bacon. Or any meat for that matter.BillMcKay1 wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
I could not disagree more with your vegan nonsense. I watched my uncle develop type 2 diabetes after going vegan and cutting out meat and extra protein. He has a healthy BMI, etc. but developed diabetes after eating extra carbs for many years which affected his insulin sensitivity in the long run.
It may work for YOU but will not work for the majority of people. Plain and simple: humans evolved to eat animals.
It's most definitely nonsense. I recovered from two eating disorders by S twitching to vegan, I found a hobby I like to do. My sleep improved, my poop has improved, my skin has improved, my happiness has improved. I have never, ever, felt better. I know that veganism is a blessing in my life, I don't know why it doesn't work for some people, that makes me sad about your uncle, but I just want everyone to feel as good as I do, and if that means trying veganism and having it work for them, then great I helped someone. If it doesn't work (and someone has really really tried it) then oh well, go back to the standard American diet. I just know that it's made so much sense to me personally to go vegan and I don't personally want to go back.
More power to ya I guess. Bacon is a blessing in my life, but I don't go around proselytizing the blessings of bacon..
There are plenty of vegetarian/vegan products to simulate meat/cheese, but I've never seen someone try to make a simulated vegetable out of meat. I'm just saying...2 -
CorneliusPhoton wrote: »I look for the first reliable source -- like mayo clinic, NIH, or sometimes an educational institution or a .org
Still looking for one that says anything about dietary causes.
Let me know what you find. I can replicate it very easily by eating three or four protein bars, shakes, or a couple of pounds of meat in a single sitting, and peeing a few hours later, or by taking in an amount that far exceeds my lift based exertion over a couple of days.0 -
brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
http://www.nutritionsecrets.com/9-lies-vegans-love-telling/3 -
The_Enginerd wrote: »
There are plenty of vegetarian/vegan products to simulate meat/cheese, but I've never seen someone try to make a simulated vegetable out of meat. I'm just saying...
Yeah, but they should, and market it to children whose parents make them eat their vegetables - "Hey mom I just ate all of my (really delicious bacon made to look exactly like) broccoli, can I have dessert now?"1 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
http://www.nutritionsecrets.com/9-lies-vegans-love-telling/
From the article: " And vegans follow one of the strictest diets out there. Not only do they avoid animal products of all kinds, but they also don’t touch:
Trans fats
Refined sugar
Processed grains
Vegetable oils."
This just isn't true. Today alone I've had refined sugar, processed grains, and vegetable oil -- and I haven't even had dinner yet. I don't know about trans fats because I don't really pay attention to that -- but it's totally possible that I have had some of those too. There isn't just one vegan way to eat and veganism isn't the same thing as the more restrictive "plant-based diet."
Also, "Unless you’re going to a strictly vegan restaurant, chances are that a vegan meal is going to fall into three categories: salad, grilled/ roasted side-dish-vegetables-turned-into-an-entree, or something on the menu with the protein taken off the plate" isn't true in many parts of the country. I hardly ever go to all-vegan places (there is only one in my city), but I often find things to eat that don't fall into that category. It's becoming much more common to see places offer vegan meals or meals that are easily made vegan with a minor change like holding the cheese.
I understand the main focus of the article is on the misrepresentations that some vegans make (I too dislike it when some vegans make false claims about vegans never getting cancer or that you don't have to ever think about getting enough protein because vegetables have so much of it), but the author seems seriously misinformed about vegans and veganism and the article over-compensates by labeling some things as "lies" that are actually true (according to Cronometer, I do -- in fact -- get enough healthy fat, for example).
Countering lies is great. Countering them with misinformation and misrepresentation is less helpful.5 -
CorneliusPhoton wrote: »I look for the first reliable source -- like mayo clinic, NIH, or sometimes an educational institution or a .org
Still looking for one that says anything about dietary causes.
Have a look through a bunch of the studies linked at the bottom that are covered by the abstract.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2001721/0 -
BreezeDoveal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
http://www.nutritionsecrets.com/9-lies-vegans-love-telling/
From the article: " And vegans follow one of the strictest diets out there. Not only do they avoid animal products of all kinds, but they also don’t touch:
Trans fats
Refined sugar
Processed grains
Vegetable oils."
This just isn't true. Today alone I've had refined sugar, processed grains, and vegetable oil -- and I haven't even had dinner yet. I don't know about trans fats because I don't really pay attention to that -- but it's totally possible that I have had some of those too. There isn't just one vegan way to eat and veganism isn't the same thing as the more restrictive "plant-based diet."
Also, "Unless you’re going to a strictly vegan restaurant, chances are that a vegan meal is going to fall into three categories: salad, grilled/ roasted side-dish-vegetables-turned-into-an-entree, or something on the menu with the protein taken off the plate" isn't true in many parts of the country. I hardly ever go to all-vegan places (there is only one in my city), but I often find things to eat that don't fall into that category. It's becoming much more common to see places offer vegan meals or meals that are easily made vegan with a minor change like holding the cheese.
I understand the main focus of the article is on the misrepresentations that some vegans make (I too dislike it when some vegans make false claims about vegans never getting cancer or that you don't have to ever think about getting enough protein because vegetables have so much of it), but the author seems seriously misinformed about vegans and veganism and the article over-compensates by labeling some things as "lies" that are actually true (according to Cronometer, I do -- in fact -- get enough healthy fat, for example).
Countering lies is great. Countering them with misinformation and misrepresentation is less helpful.
Okay, so you've admitted you're not a vegan, but now you're arguing what vegans do or don't do?
How are refined sugar, processed grains, and vegetable oils against the rules of veganism?
Eating them makes baby kittens cry?1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
http://www.nutritionsecrets.com/9-lies-vegans-love-telling/
From the article: " And vegans follow one of the strictest diets out there. Not only do they avoid animal products of all kinds, but they also don’t touch:
Trans fats
Refined sugar
Processed grains
Vegetable oils."
This just isn't true. Today alone I've had refined sugar, processed grains, and vegetable oil -- and I haven't even had dinner yet. I don't know about trans fats because I don't really pay attention to that -- but it's totally possible that I have had some of those too. There isn't just one vegan way to eat and veganism isn't the same thing as the more restrictive "plant-based diet."
Also, "Unless you’re going to a strictly vegan restaurant, chances are that a vegan meal is going to fall into three categories: salad, grilled/ roasted side-dish-vegetables-turned-into-an-entree, or something on the menu with the protein taken off the plate" isn't true in many parts of the country. I hardly ever go to all-vegan places (there is only one in my city), but I often find things to eat that don't fall into that category. It's becoming much more common to see places offer vegan meals or meals that are easily made vegan with a minor change like holding the cheese.
I understand the main focus of the article is on the misrepresentations that some vegans make (I too dislike it when some vegans make false claims about vegans never getting cancer or that you don't have to ever think about getting enough protein because vegetables have so much of it), but the author seems seriously misinformed about vegans and veganism and the article over-compensates by labeling some things as "lies" that are actually true (according to Cronometer, I do -- in fact -- get enough healthy fat, for example).
Countering lies is great. Countering them with misinformation and misrepresentation is less helpful.
Seems to be mixing up veganism with extreme whole foods plant-based, like Fuhrman (who is not actually vegan).0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »BreezeDoveal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
http://www.nutritionsecrets.com/9-lies-vegans-love-telling/
From the article: " And vegans follow one of the strictest diets out there. Not only do they avoid animal products of all kinds, but they also don’t touch:
Trans fats
Refined sugar
Processed grains
Vegetable oils."
This just isn't true. Today alone I've had refined sugar, processed grains, and vegetable oil -- and I haven't even had dinner yet. I don't know about trans fats because I don't really pay attention to that -- but it's totally possible that I have had some of those too. There isn't just one vegan way to eat and veganism isn't the same thing as the more restrictive "plant-based diet."
Also, "Unless you’re going to a strictly vegan restaurant, chances are that a vegan meal is going to fall into three categories: salad, grilled/ roasted side-dish-vegetables-turned-into-an-entree, or something on the menu with the protein taken off the plate" isn't true in many parts of the country. I hardly ever go to all-vegan places (there is only one in my city), but I often find things to eat that don't fall into that category. It's becoming much more common to see places offer vegan meals or meals that are easily made vegan with a minor change like holding the cheese.
I understand the main focus of the article is on the misrepresentations that some vegans make (I too dislike it when some vegans make false claims about vegans never getting cancer or that you don't have to ever think about getting enough protein because vegetables have so much of it), but the author seems seriously misinformed about vegans and veganism and the article over-compensates by labeling some things as "lies" that are actually true (according to Cronometer, I do -- in fact -- get enough healthy fat, for example).
Countering lies is great. Countering them with misinformation and misrepresentation is less helpful.
Okay, so you've admitted you're not a vegan, but now you're arguing what vegans do or don't do?
How are refined sugar, processed grains, and vegetable oils against the rules of veganism?
Eating them makes baby kittens cry?
Baby kittens, the cutest of all possible animals. Won't you please give up the trans fats for their sake?1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Personal experience:
Bodybuilding requirements (1 - 1.5 g / lb of bodyweight): Overkill for the average person looking to drop fat and look good. Likely started as a way to cash in on the increasing popularity of whey protein supplements.
RDA: .8 / kg of bodyweight: Probably too low especially as people age. I don't have much experience as I get much more than this amount just by eating foods I enjoy. You can find older studies where the 'high protein' group is around the RDA and show improved body composition results with the RDA.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and as long as you are getting some protein at every meal you don't need to stress out about the specifics. If you are serious about squeezing every ounce of your genetic muscle mass potenital on your body then this changes.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but your first one was per lbs. and your second was per kg...and the second one, which you called low, is higher than the first, which you called overkill.
I'm not sure if you realize this but you and the two people who liked your post are bad at math
EDIT: Looks like this was corrected several times over so all is well lol
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »CorneliusPhoton wrote: »I look for the first reliable source -- like mayo clinic, NIH, or sometimes an educational institution or a .org
Still looking for one that says anything about dietary causes.
Let me know what you find. I can replicate it very easily by eating three or four protein bars, shakes, or a couple of pounds of meat in a single sitting, and peeing a few hours later, or by taking in an amount that far exceeds my lift based exertion over a couple of days.
I don't know why the leap is being made that this means your body is done using protein and up until this point it needs more? Excess protein is commonly converted to glucose to meet energy needs.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »CorneliusPhoton wrote: »I look for the first reliable source -- like mayo clinic, NIH, or sometimes an educational institution or a .org
Still looking for one that says anything about dietary causes.
Let me know what you find. I can replicate it very easily by eating three or four protein bars, shakes, or a couple of pounds of meat in a single sitting, and peeing a few hours later, or by taking in an amount that far exceeds my lift based exertion over a couple of days.
I don't know why the leap is being made that this means your body is done using protein and up until this point it needs more? Excess protein is commonly converted to glucose to meet energy needs.
That is also a slow and controlled process. It doesn't just happen all at once, like some appear to think. I can assure you, judging purely from the fact that I smell like the inside of a nail polish remover bottle when sweating, my higher protein intake has done nothing to threaten my ketogenic state.0 -
Thus, despite the capacity to be able to digest more protein, there is obviously a finite capacity to put amino acids into skeletal muscle. Indeed a ‘muscle full’ phenomenon has been described following meal ingestion [13]. Importantly, however, is what the protein dose per meal might be on a body weight basis to allow adjustment for smaller or larger athletes. Estimations based on the data we have at present [11, 12] are that a per-meal ‘dose’ of protein of ~0.25 g protein/kg would optimally stimulate protein synthesis [14]. With this per meal ‘dose’ in mind, one can begin to formulate a protein consumption strategy based around periodic stimulation of protein synthesis, which is in fact what was trialed by Areta et al. [15]. In this investigation, a group of young men who had just performed resistance exercise had the largest stimulation of muscle protein synthesis,
These findings provide at least a proof of principle that a per meal protein dose of ~0.25 g protein/kg/meal seems to be optimally effective, at least in stimulating muscle protein synthesis. Indeed, we have recently confirmed this dose does represent an optimally effective dose of protein for young men [14]. While larger protein doses can definitely be digested, they appear not be able to further stimulate muscle protein synthesis but do lead to marked amino acid oxidation [11] and urea synthesis [12].
Also, the long-term translation of acute findings to chronic phenotypic changes requires caution in interpretation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4213385/#CR81 -
BreezeDoveal wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
http://www.nutritionsecrets.com/9-lies-vegans-love-telling/
From the article: " And vegans follow one of the strictest diets out there. Not only do they avoid animal products of all kinds, but they also don’t touch:
Trans fats
Refined sugar
Processed grains
Vegetable oils."
This just isn't true. Today alone I've had refined sugar, processed grains, and vegetable oil -- and I haven't even had dinner yet. I don't know about trans fats because I don't really pay attention to that -- but it's totally possible that I have had some of those too. There isn't just one vegan way to eat and veganism isn't the same thing as the more restrictive "plant-based diet."
Also, "Unless you’re going to a strictly vegan restaurant, chances are that a vegan meal is going to fall into three categories: salad, grilled/ roasted side-dish-vegetables-turned-into-an-entree, or something on the menu with the protein taken off the plate" isn't true in many parts of the country. I hardly ever go to all-vegan places (there is only one in my city), but I often find things to eat that don't fall into that category. It's becoming much more common to see places offer vegan meals or meals that are easily made vegan with a minor change like holding the cheese.
I understand the main focus of the article is on the misrepresentations that some vegans make (I too dislike it when some vegans make false claims about vegans never getting cancer or that you don't have to ever think about getting enough protein because vegetables have so much of it), but the author seems seriously misinformed about vegans and veganism and the article over-compensates by labeling some things as "lies" that are actually true (according to Cronometer, I do -- in fact -- get enough healthy fat, for example).
Countering lies is great. Countering them with misinformation and misrepresentation is less helpful.
Okay, so you've admitted you're not a vegan, but now you're arguing what vegans do or don't do?
Dude, what are you reading? At no point did she admit to not being a vegan. The article your speak of, is actually a blog based on opinion.1 -
To keep people on the right track when looking up medical studies. Look for studies that aren't close to 11 years old and you typically want the source to be from a teaching hospital or Stanford, Mayo Clinic.
From what you gave? This shows me no valid information I can use. No valid source.
Please check the link provided below for more answers on protein, types, how much and when you should take it.
You could also do a google search for Stanford University. This should get you on the right track for now.
http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-blog/seniors-beef-it-up-to-prevent-muscle-loss/bgp-20136508
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