Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Protein intake to maintain optimum physical performance myth?
cee134
Posts: 33,711 Member
in Debate Club
Thoughts?
Physically active individuals:
It is commonly believed that athletes should consume
a higher-than-normal protein intake to maintain optimum physical performance.
However, since compelling evidence of additional need is lacking,
no additional dietary protein is suggested for healthy adults who undertake
resistance or endurance exercise.
p. 164
Source: Institute of Medicine. Dietary Reference Intakes: The essential guide to nutrient requirements. Washington (DC): The National Academies Press; 2006.
Physically active individuals:
It is commonly believed that athletes should consume
a higher-than-normal protein intake to maintain optimum physical performance.
However, since compelling evidence of additional need is lacking,
no additional dietary protein is suggested for healthy adults who undertake
resistance or endurance exercise.
p. 164
Source: Institute of Medicine. Dietary Reference Intakes: The essential guide to nutrient requirements. Washington (DC): The National Academies Press; 2006.
0
Replies
-
Well, first I'd like to know what reference "normal intake" they're using as a base.
Beyond that, meh. If I'm healthy, a little extra protein won't hurt me, and it might help me. I'm super lucky, in global terms: I can afford to eat more than minimal protein, and it's readily accessible to me, even as a vegetarian.
So I eat more than the USDA minimum, and less than some of the bodybuilding blogs recommend. Seems to be working OK.4 -
Thoughts?
Physically active individuals:
It is commonly believed that athletes should consume
a higher-than-normal protein intake to maintain optimum physical performance.
However, since compelling evidence of additional need is lacking,
no additional dietary protein is suggested for healthy adults who undertake
resistance or endurance exercise.
p. 164
Source: Institute of Medicine. Dietary Reference Intakes: The essential guide to nutrient requirements. Washington (DC): The National Academies Press; 2006.
No additional protein over what? The RDA is the minimum allotment for a sedentary adult to prevent sickness.he Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for protein is a modest 0.8 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight. The RDA is the amount of a nutrient you need to meet your basic nutritional requirements. In a sense, it’s the minimum amount you need to keep from getting sick — not the specific amount you are supposed to eat every day....But use of the RDA to set daily protein targets has actually caused a lot of confusion. “There’s a misunderstanding not only among the public, but also somewhat in our profession about the RDA,” says Nancy Rodriguez, a registered dietitian and professor of nutritional science at the University of Connecticut in Storrs. “People in general think we all eat too much protein.”
http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/how-much-protein-do-you-need-every-day-201506188096
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOE2zIg7bN0
For people with properly functioning kidneys, higher levels of protein have never been shown to be detrimental to your health. Further, diets higher in protein have been shown to be more satiating and result in less overall calories eaten.0 -
Thoughts?
Physically active individuals:
It is commonly believed that athletes should consume
a higher-than-normal protein intake to maintain optimum physical performance.
However, since compelling evidence of additional need is lacking,
no additional dietary protein is suggested for healthy adults who undertake
resistance or endurance exercise.
p. 164
Source: Institute of Medicine. Dietary Reference Intakes: The essential guide to nutrient requirements. Washington (DC): The National Academies Press; 2006.
depends on your goals..if you are cutting then you want higher protein to maintain muscle, if you are bulking you want to bring that number down and increase carbs, etc, etc.
0 -
My thoughts are not terribly well educated on this matter.
I've done some research lately to find out exactly how much protein I should be getting. (I'm a vegetarian.) I found a lot of different answers to the question. You've found one more.
There doesn't seem to be much downside to going over. I don't have any reason to think my kidneys don't work well, it's fairly cheap, and it's filling. If I can't know exactly how much I need, I think I'd rather get too much than too little.1 -
What I've seen (I have links, being lazy for the moment):
(1) Pretty convincing evidence that increased protein makes a difference (along with other factors) in maintaining muscle on a deficit. (Increased as in .65-.85 g/lb of healthy weight.)
(2) Personal experience that somewhat higher protein tends to mean I am more satisfied and eat less (I can get around this, though -- a low fat, high fiber diet is also quite satiating for me, just more boring than somewhat more fat and protein).
(3) Some studies that indicate that protein needs go up as one ages, because it is harder for you to add and maintain muscle.
(4) Recommendations, more based on "it is possibly the case," that added protein helps with endurance exercise and strength training. Based on these athletes are advised to eat more like 1-1.5 g/kg as a minimum.
(5) The .8 g/kg number is a minimum.
Based on these, my number is between 45 g (.8 g/kg) and 106 g (.85 g/lb). Because I fit a number of the reasons for higher protein, and because I see no reason it would hurt me, I tend to aim for 100 g. Those reasons are (a) I am a 46-year-old woman, so getting older and someone who needs all the help I can get to build and maintain muscle; (b) I do endurance sports and strength training and would like to add some muscle; and (c) off and on I am on a deficit and it's easier to just keep my protein number consistent. And, the main thing, it's an easy way to eat and as I said above, tends to be satisfying, so why not err on the side of somewhat more given the likelihood that there are some benefits?1 -
As a little old woman that lifts I go for 1g protein to 1lbs bodyweight.
Seams to be in line with aging and muscle retention.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2760315/
Cheers, h.3 -
FYI -
- This study is where the USDA gets it's RDA. Which in turn pulls it's numbers for protein from this study http://www.nap.edu/read/10490/chapter/1
- I don't think it's saying anything about muscle repair. I think it's talking about performance during exercise.
0 -
Honest question as I do not know - The quote in the OP is from 2006. Is "compelling evidence" still "lacking" 10 years later?
All I have is my personal experience. When I increased my protein from 60ish grams (@ .5 grams per total lb) to 100ish grams (@ .8 grams per total lb) I found it much easier to eat the correct amount of calories without hunger, and I have seen more progress in my workouts (I feel stronger and can do more) and more progress in the mirror.
Could be coincidence or feels, but I see no drawback in how I'm eating now (I enjoy it, it's within my budget, I can eat this way anywhere, my health is good) so it's now a permanent change for me.1 -
FYI -
- This study is where the USDA gets it's RDA. Which in turn pulls it's numbers for protein from this study http://www.nap.edu/read/10490/chapter/1
- I don't think it's saying anything about muscle repair. I think it's talking about performance during exercise.
Muscle repair is the point of resistance training, it's how your performance improves, so I would think muscle repair and optimum performance go hand in hand.2 -
Eating a steak before a game isn't going to help.0
-
I would be pretty safe to say if you looked at the diets of the fittest people in the world you would find the vast majority get at least the .8g of protein per pound of bodyweight.1
-
Don't listen to all the hype about eating tons of protein to gain or maintain lean muscle mass. IV done every type of meal plan and supplement you can pretty much use. What I found is that if you just eat clean and healthy with a moderate amount of protein(.5-.8) grams per pound of body weight, you're good. Also keep your training sessions 45 minutes or less and get good rest. Everything falls into place. Keep it simple...0
-
FYI -
- This study is where the USDA gets it's RDA. Which in turn pulls it's numbers for protein from this study http://www.nap.edu/read/10490/chapter/1
- I don't think it's saying anything about muscle repair. I think it's talking about performance during exercise.
I've always believed that repair is the primary reason for more protein, not performance...carbs are for performance.4 -
Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins2
-
brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
I could not disagree more with your vegan nonsense. I watched my uncle develop type 2 diabetes after going vegan and cutting out meat and extra protein. He has a healthy BMI, etc. but developed diabetes after eating extra carbs for many years which affected his insulin sensitivity in the long run.
It may work for YOU but will not work for the majority of people. Plain and simple: humans evolved to eat animals.5 -
This content has been removed.
-
I could not disagree more with your vegan nonsense. I watched my uncle develop type 2 diabetes after going vegan and cutting out meat and extra protein. He has a healthy BMI, etc. but developed diabetes after eating extra carbs for many years which affected his insulin sensitivity in the long run.
It depends what type of carbs he ate, plus if he had the genetics to get diabetes. No diet will prevent diabetes, but it can cut down on your chances of getting some things. Vegans can make unhealthy choices just like anyone else.
I am at risk of diabetes. I do a mostly plant based diet while trying to get 200 mg of cholesterol or under and less then 13 g saturated fat. I will be able to tell you in a year if that is worth while because I get blood tests every year. I am also trying to strongly limit refined carbs and sugars. I also believe in getting enough protein. For me I do .41 x body weight. There are people that are vegan that say it's not as important, but all studies so far say that it is. I rather go with an educated best guess then wishful thinking.
4 -
brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
I could not disagree more with your vegan nonsense. I watched my uncle develop type 2 diabetes after going vegan and cutting out meat and extra protein. He has a healthy BMI, etc. but developed diabetes after eating extra carbs for many years which affected his insulin sensitivity in the long run.
It may work for YOU but will not work for the majority of people. Plain and simple: humans evolved to eat animals.
Nonsense meets nonsense.
4 -
brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
Considering how wide the "average" American is these days, I'd say we're not exactly doing great on proper consumption of any of the macros.3 -
brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
I could not disagree more with your vegan nonsense. I watched my uncle develop type 2 diabetes after going vegan and cutting out meat and extra protein. He has a healthy BMI, etc. but developed diabetes after eating extra carbs for many years which affected his insulin sensitivity in the long run.
It may work for YOU but will not work for the majority of people. Plain and simple: humans evolved to eat animals.
It's most definitely nonsense. I recovered from two eating disorders by S twitching to vegan, I found a hobby I like to do. My sleep improved, my poop has improved, my skin has improved, my happiness has improved. I have never, ever, felt better. I know that veganism is a blessing in my life, I don't know why it doesn't work for some people, that makes me sad about your uncle, but I just want everyone to feel as good as I do, and if that means trying veganism and having it work for them, then great I helped someone. If it doesn't work (and someone has really really tried it) then oh well, go back to the standard American diet. I just know that it's made so much sense to me personally to go vegan and I don't personally want to go back.
0 -
Eating a steak before a game isn't going to help.
True - but that's a fundamental lack of understanding of how to fuel exercise if you think that's what athletes do!
(Hint - carbs are your primary exercise fuel.)
Extreme example:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/racing/tour-de-france/this-is-what-you-have-to-eat-to-compete-in-the-tour-de-france-182775
Good article about protein intake from Eric Helms with plenty of research references.
http://www.simplyshredded.com/protein-intake-how-much-protein-should-you-consume-and-what-does-the-research-really-say.html
Protein requirements are higher (more beneficial) in a deficit.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/240927652 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
Considering how wide the "average" American is these days, I'd say we're not exactly doing great on proper consumption of any of the macros.
This is basically what I was going to say. The average American gets more of every macro than he or she NEEDS, at least for health. In that increased protein often correlates with reduced calories (all else equal), eating more can be a good change for many, even if not needed for other reasons.0 -
-
brichards_ wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
I could not disagree more with your vegan nonsense. I watched my uncle develop type 2 diabetes after going vegan and cutting out meat and extra protein. He has a healthy BMI, etc. but developed diabetes after eating extra carbs for many years which affected his insulin sensitivity in the long run.
It may work for YOU but will not work for the majority of people. Plain and simple: humans evolved to eat animals.
It's most definitely nonsense. I recovered from two eating disorders by S twitching to vegan, I found a hobby I like to do. My sleep improved, my poop has improved, my skin has improved, my happiness has improved. I have never, ever, felt better. I know that veganism is a blessing in my life, I don't know why it doesn't work for some people, that makes me sad about your uncle, but I just want everyone to feel as good as I do, and if that means trying veganism and having it work for them, then great I helped someone. If it doesn't work (and someone has really really tried it) then oh well, go back to the standard American diet. I just know that it's made so much sense to me personally to go vegan and I don't personally want to go back.
More power to ya I guess. Bacon is a blessing in my life, but I don't go around proselytizing the blessings of bacon..4 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
I could not disagree more with your vegan nonsense. I watched my uncle develop type 2 diabetes after going vegan and cutting out meat and extra protein. He has a healthy BMI, etc. but developed diabetes after eating extra carbs for many years which affected his insulin sensitivity in the long run.
It may work for YOU but will not work for the majority of people. Plain and simple: humans evolved to eat animals.
It's most definitely nonsense. I recovered from two eating disorders by S twitching to vegan, I found a hobby I like to do. My sleep improved, my poop has improved, my skin has improved, my happiness has improved. I have never, ever, felt better. I know that veganism is a blessing in my life, I don't know why it doesn't work for some people, that makes me sad about your uncle, but I just want everyone to feel as good as I do, and if that means trying veganism and having it work for them, then great I helped someone. If it doesn't work (and someone has really really tried it) then oh well, go back to the standard American diet. I just know that it's made so much sense to me personally to go vegan and I don't personally want to go back.
More power to ya I guess. Bacon is a blessing in my life, but I don't go around proselytizing the blessings of bacon..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8 8 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
I could not disagree more with your vegan nonsense. I watched my uncle develop type 2 diabetes after going vegan and cutting out meat and extra protein. He has a healthy BMI, etc. but developed diabetes after eating extra carbs for many years which affected his insulin sensitivity in the long run.
It may work for YOU but will not work for the majority of people. Plain and simple: humans evolved to eat animals.
It's most definitely nonsense. I recovered from two eating disorders by S twitching to vegan, I found a hobby I like to do. My sleep improved, my poop has improved, my skin has improved, my happiness has improved. I have never, ever, felt better. I know that veganism is a blessing in my life, I don't know why it doesn't work for some people, that makes me sad about your uncle, but I just want everyone to feel as good as I do, and if that means trying veganism and having it work for them, then great I helped someone. If it doesn't work (and someone has really really tried it) then oh well, go back to the standard American diet. I just know that it's made so much sense to me personally to go vegan and I don't personally want to go back.
More power to ya I guess. Bacon is a blessing in my life, but I don't go around proselytizing the blessings of bacon..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8
I *kitten* love that video. "Here we have a meat based cucumber substitute...."
3 -
Personal experience:
Bodybuilding requirements (1 - 1.5 g / lb of bodyweight): Overkill for the average person looking to drop fat and look good. Likely started as a way to cash in on the increasing popularity of whey protein supplements.
RDA: .8 / kg of bodyweight: Probably too low especially as people age. I don't have much experience as I get much more than this amount just by eating foods I enjoy. You can find older studies where the 'high protein' group is around the RDA and show improved body composition results with the RDA.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and as long as you are getting some protein at every meal you don't need to stress out about the specifics. If you are serious about squeezing every ounce of your genetic muscle mass potenital on your body then this changes.0 -
Personal experience:
Bodybuilding requirements (1 - 1.5 g / lb of bodyweight): Overkill for the average person looking to drop fat and look good. Likely started as a way to cash in on the increasing popularity of whey protein supplements.
RDA: .8 / kg of bodyweight: Probably too low especially as people age. I don't have much experience as I get much more than this amount just by eating foods I enjoy. You can find older studies where the 'high protein' group is around the RDA and show improved body composition results with the RDA.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and as long as you are getting some protein at every meal you don't need to stress out about the specifics. If you are serious about squeezing every ounce of your genetic muscle mass potenital on your body then this changes.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but your first one was per lbs. and your second was per kg...and the second one, which you called low, is higher than the first, which you called overkill.4 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Personal experience:
Bodybuilding requirements (1 - 1.5 g / lb of bodyweight): Overkill for the average person looking to drop fat and look good. Likely started as a way to cash in on the increasing popularity of whey protein supplements.
RDA: .8 / kg of bodyweight: Probably too low especially as people age. I don't have much experience as I get much more than this amount just by eating foods I enjoy. You can find older studies where the 'high protein' group is around the RDA and show improved body composition results with the RDA.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and as long as you are getting some protein at every meal you don't need to stress out about the specifics. If you are serious about squeezing every ounce of your genetic muscle mass potenital on your body then this changes.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but your first one was per lbs. and your second was per kg...and the second one, which you called low, is higher than the first, which you called overkill.
For a 60kg person 0.8/kg would give 48g of protein which is probably too low. Converting that to lbs give 132lbs which at 1-1.5g/lb would give132-198 which might be on the higher side depending on your opinion. I think you might be confused.2
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 427 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions