Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Protein intake to maintain optimum physical performance myth?
Options
Replies
-
brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
I could not disagree more with your vegan nonsense. I watched my uncle develop type 2 diabetes after going vegan and cutting out meat and extra protein. He has a healthy BMI, etc. but developed diabetes after eating extra carbs for many years which affected his insulin sensitivity in the long run.
It may work for YOU but will not work for the majority of people. Plain and simple: humans evolved to eat animals.
It's most definitely nonsense. I recovered from two eating disorders by S twitching to vegan, I found a hobby I like to do. My sleep improved, my poop has improved, my skin has improved, my happiness has improved. I have never, ever, felt better. I know that veganism is a blessing in my life, I don't know why it doesn't work for some people, that makes me sad about your uncle, but I just want everyone to feel as good as I do, and if that means trying veganism and having it work for them, then great I helped someone. If it doesn't work (and someone has really really tried it) then oh well, go back to the standard American diet. I just know that it's made so much sense to me personally to go vegan and I don't personally want to go back.
0 -
Eating a steak before a game isn't going to help.
True - but that's a fundamental lack of understanding of how to fuel exercise if you think that's what athletes do!
(Hint - carbs are your primary exercise fuel.)
Extreme example:
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/racing/tour-de-france/this-is-what-you-have-to-eat-to-compete-in-the-tour-de-france-182775
Good article about protein intake from Eric Helms with plenty of research references.
http://www.simplyshredded.com/protein-intake-how-much-protein-should-you-consume-and-what-does-the-research-really-say.html
Protein requirements are higher (more beneficial) in a deficit.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/240927652 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
Considering how wide the "average" American is these days, I'd say we're not exactly doing great on proper consumption of any of the macros.
This is basically what I was going to say. The average American gets more of every macro than he or she NEEDS, at least for health. In that increased protein often correlates with reduced calories (all else equal), eating more can be a good change for many, even if not needed for other reasons.0 -
-
brichards_ wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
I could not disagree more with your vegan nonsense. I watched my uncle develop type 2 diabetes after going vegan and cutting out meat and extra protein. He has a healthy BMI, etc. but developed diabetes after eating extra carbs for many years which affected his insulin sensitivity in the long run.
It may work for YOU but will not work for the majority of people. Plain and simple: humans evolved to eat animals.
It's most definitely nonsense. I recovered from two eating disorders by S twitching to vegan, I found a hobby I like to do. My sleep improved, my poop has improved, my skin has improved, my happiness has improved. I have never, ever, felt better. I know that veganism is a blessing in my life, I don't know why it doesn't work for some people, that makes me sad about your uncle, but I just want everyone to feel as good as I do, and if that means trying veganism and having it work for them, then great I helped someone. If it doesn't work (and someone has really really tried it) then oh well, go back to the standard American diet. I just know that it's made so much sense to me personally to go vegan and I don't personally want to go back.
More power to ya I guess. Bacon is a blessing in my life, but I don't go around proselytizing the blessings of bacon..4 -
BillMcKay1 wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
I could not disagree more with your vegan nonsense. I watched my uncle develop type 2 diabetes after going vegan and cutting out meat and extra protein. He has a healthy BMI, etc. but developed diabetes after eating extra carbs for many years which affected his insulin sensitivity in the long run.
It may work for YOU but will not work for the majority of people. Plain and simple: humans evolved to eat animals.
It's most definitely nonsense. I recovered from two eating disorders by S twitching to vegan, I found a hobby I like to do. My sleep improved, my poop has improved, my skin has improved, my happiness has improved. I have never, ever, felt better. I know that veganism is a blessing in my life, I don't know why it doesn't work for some people, that makes me sad about your uncle, but I just want everyone to feel as good as I do, and if that means trying veganism and having it work for them, then great I helped someone. If it doesn't work (and someone has really really tried it) then oh well, go back to the standard American diet. I just know that it's made so much sense to me personally to go vegan and I don't personally want to go back.
More power to ya I guess. Bacon is a blessing in my life, but I don't go around proselytizing the blessings of bacon..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8 8 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »BillMcKay1 wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »brichards_ wrote: »Although protein is important, it's hyped up and we consume more than needed as the average Americans. I've switched over to a high carb low fat vegan diet, I'm an athlete, and I feel better than ever. I get an abundance of protein just off of veggies and other plant proteins
I could not disagree more with your vegan nonsense. I watched my uncle develop type 2 diabetes after going vegan and cutting out meat and extra protein. He has a healthy BMI, etc. but developed diabetes after eating extra carbs for many years which affected his insulin sensitivity in the long run.
It may work for YOU but will not work for the majority of people. Plain and simple: humans evolved to eat animals.
It's most definitely nonsense. I recovered from two eating disorders by S twitching to vegan, I found a hobby I like to do. My sleep improved, my poop has improved, my skin has improved, my happiness has improved. I have never, ever, felt better. I know that veganism is a blessing in my life, I don't know why it doesn't work for some people, that makes me sad about your uncle, but I just want everyone to feel as good as I do, and if that means trying veganism and having it work for them, then great I helped someone. If it doesn't work (and someone has really really tried it) then oh well, go back to the standard American diet. I just know that it's made so much sense to me personally to go vegan and I don't personally want to go back.
More power to ya I guess. Bacon is a blessing in my life, but I don't go around proselytizing the blessings of bacon..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8
I *kitten* love that video. "Here we have a meat based cucumber substitute...."
3 -
Personal experience:
Bodybuilding requirements (1 - 1.5 g / lb of bodyweight): Overkill for the average person looking to drop fat and look good. Likely started as a way to cash in on the increasing popularity of whey protein supplements.
RDA: .8 / kg of bodyweight: Probably too low especially as people age. I don't have much experience as I get much more than this amount just by eating foods I enjoy. You can find older studies where the 'high protein' group is around the RDA and show improved body composition results with the RDA.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and as long as you are getting some protein at every meal you don't need to stress out about the specifics. If you are serious about squeezing every ounce of your genetic muscle mass potenital on your body then this changes.0 -
Personal experience:
Bodybuilding requirements (1 - 1.5 g / lb of bodyweight): Overkill for the average person looking to drop fat and look good. Likely started as a way to cash in on the increasing popularity of whey protein supplements.
RDA: .8 / kg of bodyweight: Probably too low especially as people age. I don't have much experience as I get much more than this amount just by eating foods I enjoy. You can find older studies where the 'high protein' group is around the RDA and show improved body composition results with the RDA.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and as long as you are getting some protein at every meal you don't need to stress out about the specifics. If you are serious about squeezing every ounce of your genetic muscle mass potenital on your body then this changes.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but your first one was per lbs. and your second was per kg...and the second one, which you called low, is higher than the first, which you called overkill.4 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Personal experience:
Bodybuilding requirements (1 - 1.5 g / lb of bodyweight): Overkill for the average person looking to drop fat and look good. Likely started as a way to cash in on the increasing popularity of whey protein supplements.
RDA: .8 / kg of bodyweight: Probably too low especially as people age. I don't have much experience as I get much more than this amount just by eating foods I enjoy. You can find older studies where the 'high protein' group is around the RDA and show improved body composition results with the RDA.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and as long as you are getting some protein at every meal you don't need to stress out about the specifics. If you are serious about squeezing every ounce of your genetic muscle mass potenital on your body then this changes.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but your first one was per lbs. and your second was per kg...and the second one, which you called low, is higher than the first, which you called overkill.
For a 60kg person 0.8/kg would give 48g of protein which is probably too low. Converting that to lbs give 132lbs which at 1-1.5g/lb would give132-198 which might be on the higher side depending on your opinion. I think you might be confused.2 -
Personal experience:
Bodybuilding requirements (1 - 1.5 g / lb of bodyweight): Overkill for the average person looking to drop fat and look good. Likely started as a way to cash in on the increasing popularity of whey protein supplements.
RDA: .8 / kg of bodyweight: Probably too low especially as people age. I don't have much experience as I get much more than this amount just by eating foods I enjoy. You can find older studies where the 'high protein' group is around the RDA and show improved body composition results with the RDA.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and as long as you are getting some protein at every meal you don't need to stress out about the specifics. If you are serious about squeezing every ounce of your genetic muscle mass potenital on your body then this changes.
I agree that it's likely somewhere in the middle. I've done a bit of reading ((and there is a lot of information out there) and have settled quite comfortably around the 1g/lb or 2g/kg mark. There are some studies that suggest in certain circumstances, like trying to retain muscle on an aggressive calorie deficit, more might be beneficial but for me around 120-140 at 64/135 body weight seems to work pretty well.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Personal experience:
Bodybuilding requirements (1 - 1.5 g / lb of bodyweight): Overkill for the average person looking to drop fat and look good. Likely started as a way to cash in on the increasing popularity of whey protein supplements.
RDA: .8 / kg of bodyweight: Probably too low especially as people age. I don't have much experience as I get much more than this amount just by eating foods I enjoy. You can find older studies where the 'high protein' group is around the RDA and show improved body composition results with the RDA.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and as long as you are getting some protein at every meal you don't need to stress out about the specifics. If you are serious about squeezing every ounce of your genetic muscle mass potenital on your body then this changes.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but your first one was per lbs. and your second was per kg...and the second one, which you called low, is higher than the first, which you called overkill.
Do the math again... the first one is higher. A lot higher.
At 150 lbs (54.5 kg), the RDA gives me 44g of protein. The body building one would give me 150-225g of protein.1 -
Yeap, I had it backwards. Confirmed that I am retarded and should not try to math right after waking up with no caffeine.0
-
The_Enginerd wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Personal experience:
Bodybuilding requirements (1 - 1.5 g / lb of bodyweight): Overkill for the average person looking to drop fat and look good. Likely started as a way to cash in on the increasing popularity of whey protein supplements.
RDA: .8 / kg of bodyweight: Probably too low especially as people age. I don't have much experience as I get much more than this amount just by eating foods I enjoy. You can find older studies where the 'high protein' group is around the RDA and show improved body composition results with the RDA.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and as long as you are getting some protein at every meal you don't need to stress out about the specifics. If you are serious about squeezing every ounce of your genetic muscle mass potenital on your body then this changes.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but your first one was per lbs. and your second was per kg...and the second one, which you called low, is higher than the first, which you called overkill.
Do the math again... the first one is higher. A lot higher.
At 150 lbs (54.5 kg), the RDA gives me 44g of protein. The body building one would give me 150-225g of protein.
150 lbs is more like 68 kg.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Personal experience:
Bodybuilding requirements (1 - 1.5 g / lb of bodyweight): Overkill for the average person looking to drop fat and look good. Likely started as a way to cash in on the increasing popularity of whey protein supplements.
RDA: .8 / kg of bodyweight: Probably too low especially as people age. I don't have much experience as I get much more than this amount just by eating foods I enjoy. You can find older studies where the 'high protein' group is around the RDA and show improved body composition results with the RDA.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and as long as you are getting some protein at every meal you don't need to stress out about the specifics. If you are serious about squeezing every ounce of your genetic muscle mass potenital on your body then this changes.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but your first one was per lbs. and your second was per kg...and the second one, which you called low, is higher than the first, which you called overkill.
Negative. The RDA of .8 x body weight in kg is = to .36 g x 1lbs of body weight. That being said, it is based on age group and goes up some when people are older. Me personally I do .4 x lbs of body weight and I think that might be alittle high.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Personal experience:
Bodybuilding requirements (1 - 1.5 g / lb of bodyweight): Overkill for the average person looking to drop fat and look good. Likely started as a way to cash in on the increasing popularity of whey protein supplements.
RDA: .8 / kg of bodyweight: Probably too low especially as people age. I don't have much experience as I get much more than this amount just by eating foods I enjoy. You can find older studies where the 'high protein' group is around the RDA and show improved body composition results with the RDA.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and as long as you are getting some protein at every meal you don't need to stress out about the specifics. If you are serious about squeezing every ounce of your genetic muscle mass potenital on your body then this changes.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but your first one was per lbs. and your second was per kg...and the second one, which you called low, is higher than the first, which you called overkill.
Negative. The RDA of .8 x body weight in kg is = to .36 g x 1lbs of body weight. That being said, it is based on age group and goes up some when people are older. Me personally I do .4 x lbs of body weight and I think that might be alittle high.
Yeah, I already got called on my retarded moment, and admitted it.
That being said, when in a heavy lifting regimen, I test my protein utilization ceiling by bumping it up until I start visibly losing aminos in the urine, and then back it off just until it stops. Until that starts happening, they're being utilized for something.
I've found it to be as high as 250g or so, or as low as roughly 90g, depending upon how much I am abusing my body with barbells.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Personal experience:
Bodybuilding requirements (1 - 1.5 g / lb of bodyweight): Overkill for the average person looking to drop fat and look good. Likely started as a way to cash in on the increasing popularity of whey protein supplements.
RDA: .8 / kg of bodyweight: Probably too low especially as people age. I don't have much experience as I get much more than this amount just by eating foods I enjoy. You can find older studies where the 'high protein' group is around the RDA and show improved body composition results with the RDA.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and as long as you are getting some protein at every meal you don't need to stress out about the specifics. If you are serious about squeezing every ounce of your genetic muscle mass potenital on your body then this changes.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but your first one was per lbs. and your second was per kg...and the second one, which you called low, is higher than the first, which you called overkill.
Negative. The RDA of .8 x body weight in kg is = to .36 g x 1lbs of body weight. That being said, it is based on age group and goes up some when people are older. Me personally I do .4 x lbs of body weight and I think that might be alittle high.
Yeah, I already got called on my retarded moment, and admitted it.
That being said, when in a heavy lifting regimen, I test my protein utilization ceiling by bumping it up until I start visibly losing aminos in the urine, and then back it off just until it stops. Until that starts happening, they're being utilized for something.
I've found it to be as high as 250g or so, or as low as roughly 90g, depending upon how much I am abusing my body with barbells.
Is there a home test for measuring amino acids in urine?0 -
CorneliusPhoton wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Personal experience:
Bodybuilding requirements (1 - 1.5 g / lb of bodyweight): Overkill for the average person looking to drop fat and look good. Likely started as a way to cash in on the increasing popularity of whey protein supplements.
RDA: .8 / kg of bodyweight: Probably too low especially as people age. I don't have much experience as I get much more than this amount just by eating foods I enjoy. You can find older studies where the 'high protein' group is around the RDA and show improved body composition results with the RDA.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and as long as you are getting some protein at every meal you don't need to stress out about the specifics. If you are serious about squeezing every ounce of your genetic muscle mass potenital on your body then this changes.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but your first one was per lbs. and your second was per kg...and the second one, which you called low, is higher than the first, which you called overkill.
Negative. The RDA of .8 x body weight in kg is = to .36 g x 1lbs of body weight. That being said, it is based on age group and goes up some when people are older. Me personally I do .4 x lbs of body weight and I think that might be alittle high.
Yeah, I already got called on my retarded moment, and admitted it.
That being said, when in a heavy lifting regimen, I test my protein utilization ceiling by bumping it up until I start visibly losing aminos in the urine, and then back it off just until it stops. Until that starts happening, they're being utilized for something.
I've found it to be as high as 250g or so, or as low as roughly 90g, depending upon how much I am abusing my body with barbells.
Is there a home test for measuring amino acids in urine?
You don't need one. Your pee turns cloudy and foamy (but without being dark) when it's happening.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »CorneliusPhoton wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Personal experience:
Bodybuilding requirements (1 - 1.5 g / lb of bodyweight): Overkill for the average person looking to drop fat and look good. Likely started as a way to cash in on the increasing popularity of whey protein supplements.
RDA: .8 / kg of bodyweight: Probably too low especially as people age. I don't have much experience as I get much more than this amount just by eating foods I enjoy. You can find older studies where the 'high protein' group is around the RDA and show improved body composition results with the RDA.
The truth is likely somewhere in the middle and as long as you are getting some protein at every meal you don't need to stress out about the specifics. If you are serious about squeezing every ounce of your genetic muscle mass potenital on your body then this changes.
I'm not sure if you realize this, but your first one was per lbs. and your second was per kg...and the second one, which you called low, is higher than the first, which you called overkill.
Negative. The RDA of .8 x body weight in kg is = to .36 g x 1lbs of body weight. That being said, it is based on age group and goes up some when people are older. Me personally I do .4 x lbs of body weight and I think that might be alittle high.
Yeah, I already got called on my retarded moment, and admitted it.
That being said, when in a heavy lifting regimen, I test my protein utilization ceiling by bumping it up until I start visibly losing aminos in the urine, and then back it off just until it stops. Until that starts happening, they're being utilized for something.
I've found it to be as high as 250g or so, or as low as roughly 90g, depending upon how much I am abusing my body with barbells.
Is there a home test for measuring amino acids in urine?
You don't need one. Your pee turns cloudy and foamy (but without being dark) when it's happening.
Sources for that?
What I found:
http://www.everydayhealth.com/columns/health-answers/what-your-pee-is-telling-you/Cloudy urine has been found to suggest the presence of phosphates, which can be a precursor to kidney stones. Cloudiness can also indicate an infection. If cloudiness worsens and you experience burning or urgency, make sure to see a doctor.
http://www.urinecolors.com/urine-health/protein-in-urine
Relevant part that matches my experience:
Sometimes you may experience this foamy urine or bubbly urine after eating a lot of fish, chicken and other meats. These meats contain muco-proteins. People who take a lot of protein supplements, such as whey protein powder, may see this bubbly urine as well. Why is this? Well, if your body is not breaking down these proteins efficiently, the protein is usually expelled from your body in your urine. The proteins, when combined with the air, then produce a foamy or bubbly urine. Proteinuria caused by eating too much protein in your diet is, of course, temporary, and the proteinuria should diminish as you reduce the amount of protein you are consuming.0 -
Sources for that?
What I found:
http://www.everydayhealth.com/columns/health-answers/what-your-pee-is-telling-you/Cloudy urine has been found to suggest the presence of phosphates, which can be a precursor to kidney stones. Cloudiness can also indicate an infection. If cloudiness worsens and you experience burning or urgency, make sure to see a doctor.
Here is what I found:
https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/kidney-disease/proteinuria/Pages/facts.aspxMost proteins are too big to pass through the kidneys' filters into the urine. However, proteins from the blood can leak into the urine when the filters of the kidney, called glomeruli, are damaged.
0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 390 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 922 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions