Clean/Dirty...missing the point

renwicker

I want to start by saying that I hate the terms "Clean" and "Dirty" when it comes to food.

Oh, the arguement about what works best for weight loss. I feel a lot of people on here are reeeeeally missing the boat with the whole "clean vs. dirty" discussion. Is eating clean going to help you lose more weight, lose it faster, and have the flatter stomach? IDK.....probably not. Whether you have a sustained diet of corndogs and potato chips or one of organic blackberries and raw kale salads with no dressing, if you are eating less calories than your body exausts, you will lose weight. Calories in, calories out....it's science.

That being said, I eat more whole foods than I do pasta and pizza. Why? First off...I can eat way more of it, and I love food. More importantly, I DO believe that heavily processed and preservative laden foods can have long term negative effects on your body and increase odds of health risks. Aren't there more important things than just weight loss to consider when discussing a diet? Why are you trying to lose weight or be fit? To live longer?....To avoid chronic or terminal disease as you age?....Just to feel better during the day?

I believe in food, and just like exercise, it is medicine for our bodies. Weight loss aside, the majority of the food I ingest is nutrient dense because it is superior. I think I will have a longer and better quality life because of it.

Just make smart choices when you decide what you're putting into your body. I think we all know what is good and what is bad. It's still ok to treat yourself to some cake and beer sometimes. Don't make yourself miserable for the sake of eating "Clean."

<b>My overall point is.....eating mostly fruits, vegetables, fish, lean meat, and whole grains is important in a long term diet. The "clean/dirty" discussion should not just be about weight loss. It's about sustainable health.</b>

(some good articles to read on the subject)

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/should-you-be-eating-clean/

http://health.yahoo.net/articles/nutrition/what-clean-eating-and-should-you-try-it

MyChocolateDiet

What?

AlabasterVerve

My overall point is.....eating mostly fruits, vegetables, fish, lean meat, and whole grains is important in a long term diet. The "clean/dirty" discussion should not just be about weight loss. It's about sustainable health.

Why do all of these threads always boil down to someone telling everyone else what they need to be eating? It's getting ridiculous.

navyrigger46

Live and let live folks, I don't care what people choose to eat, seriously, what effect does someone's dietary choices have on anyone else? Eat pizza, eat pasta, eat nothing but veggies, eat nothing but red meat, eat dog turds for all I care, and for that matter, call it whatever you like. What you choose to eat should be of no consequence to anyone else, and if it is that's their problem.

Rigger

JisatsuHoshi

Eating clean doesn't mean eating all organic (unless your wallet can afford it).

Pretty much eating clean is mainly avoiding processed foods, eating fresh veggies & fruit, etc.

funny though... when it comes to eating fresh fruits & veggies that people think rinsing them off for few seconds will remove the pesticides. When techniqually they've weathered seasons of rain and the chemicals still stick to them!?

-Whey protein powders (processed)
-Bread loafs in stores (processed... Im a chef/baker and I know you only need less than 10 ingrediants to makr bread. So why do they list 30+?)
-Sugar/artificial sweetners (processed)
-Factory farm animal meats (processed... Mecanically butchered, cleaned with chemicals & bleached, added flavoring to restore taste...)
-Fat free/low fat foods (processed)
- Your multivitamin... (guessed it, processed)

Kinda hard to eat clean in todays society... Cant even trust organic foods...

nomeejerome

I want to start by saying that I hate the terms "Clean" and "Dirty" when it comes to food.

Oh, the arguement about what works best for weight loss. I feel a lot of people on here are reeeeeally missing the boat with the whole "clean vs. dirty" discussion. Is eating clean going to help you lose more weight, lose it faster, and have the flatter stomach? IDK.....probably not. Whether you have a sustained diet of corndogs and potato chips or one of organic blackberries and raw kale salads with no dressing, if you are eating less calories than your body exausts, you will lose weight. Calories in, calories out....it's science.

That being said, I eat more whole foods than I do pasta and pizza. Why? First off...I can eat way more of it, and I love food. More importantly, I DO believe that heavily processed and preservative laden foods can have long term negative effects on your body and increase odds of health risks. Aren't there more important things than just weight loss to consider when discussing a diet? Why are you trying to lose weight or be fit? To live longer?....To avoid chronic or terminal disease as you age?....Just to feel better during the day?

Hmmm........
So you understand the science of calories in versus calories out.

Yet, you state your belief that "processed and preservative laden foods" have some type of long term negative effect on the body and increase the odds of other health risks? Where is your science to back that statement up?

ccllnply

I want to start by saying that I hate the terms "Clean" and "Dirty" when it comes to food.

Oh, the arguement about what works best for weight loss. I feel a lot of people on here are reeeeeally missing the boat with the whole "clean vs. dirty" discussion. Is eating clean going to help you lose more weight, lose it faster, and have the flatter stomach? IDK.....probably not. Whether you have a sustained diet of corndogs and potato chips or one of organic blackberries and raw kale salads with no dressing, if you are eating less calories than your body exausts, you will lose weight. Calories in, calories out....it's science.

That being said, I eat more whole foods than I do pasta and pizza. Why? First off...I can eat way more of it, and I love food. More importantly, I DO believe that heavily processed and preservative laden foods can have long term negative effects on your body and increase odds of health risks. Aren't there more important things than just weight loss to consider when discussing a diet? Why are you trying to lose weight or be fit? To live longer?....To avoid chronic or terminal disease as you age?....Just to feel better during the day?

I believe in food, and just like exercise, it is medicine for our bodies. Weight loss aside, the majority of the food I ingest is nutrient dense because it is superior. I think I will have a longer and better quality life because of it.

Just make smart choices when you decide what you're putting into your body. I think we all know what is good and what is bad. It's still ok to treat yourself to some cake and beer sometimes. Don't make yourself miserable for the sake of eating "Clean."

<b>My overall point is.....eating mostly fruits, vegetables, fish, lean meat, and whole grains is important in a long term diet. The "clean/dirty" discussion should not just be about weight loss. It's about sustainable health.</b>

(some good articles to read on the subject)

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/should-you-be-eating-clean/

http://health.yahoo.net/articles/nutrition/what-clean-eating-and-should-you-try-it

Well aren't you great! Although I would like to point out to you the irony of preaching to people while treating food "like medicine" instead of treating it like it is, which is a source of energy.

Also, usually in nutritional context, the terms "Dirty" and "Clean" refers to the amount of calories you intake so your arguement is invalid

renwicker

My overall point is.....eating mostly fruits, vegetables, fish, lean meat, and whole grains is important in a long term diet. The "clean/dirty" discussion should not just be about weight loss. It's about sustainable health.

Why do all of these threads always boil down to someone telling everyone else what they need to be eating? It's getting ridiculous.

Not what I was trying to do. I agree....it is ridiculous. I was just seeing a lot of Clean eating threads arguing about how the diet helped them lose 50 lbs, etc. Really it was just eating less. Eating Clean is a marketing gimmick, just like primal or adkins or whatever.

My point is the reason for eating better foods shouldnt be to lose weight, but to increase overall quality of health. And there are long term effects with the foods you eat. Good or bad.

neandermagnon

the problem is that there are some people who are saying that you can *never* eat any kind of "junk" food and be healthy, succeed at weight loss, etc. And it's not about what they choose for themselves, it's the fact that they're going round telling other people that they're going to fail at fat loss because they sometimes eat "bad" food, or they're shaming people for eating McDonalds, or they're beating themselves up about bingeing on "bad" food.... food puritanism isn't good for mental health, and it's not sustainable for the vast majority of people. If you can eat nothing but "clean" foods for your entire life, then go for it. Whatever. But the majority of people won't be able to sustain that for life, so people going round telling them they can never eat (add favourite "junk" food here), or shaming them for eating it, or when people beat themselves up for bingeing on it (because they weren't able to sustain 100% clean eating), then people do need to be told that it IS okay to eat all those things as part of a balanced diet..... which is exactly what IIFYM is.

what you're describing, i.e. you say that the majority of the food you eat is clean, is no different to what people who do IIFYM eat. You can't eat nothing but "junk" food and hit your macros, because you'll be way over on fat and carbs before you get enough protein. You *have to* eat nutritious food or you won't hit your macros by the end of the day. Eating nothing but pizza, for example, is never going to fit into your macros, however you can squeeze a slice or two of pizza into your macros if you're careful about everything else you eat in a day (and "everything else" in this example is going to end up being food that the clean eaters consider clean, because otherwise you'd not be able to fit pizza into your macros)

No-one is saying eat nothing but junk. they're just calling out all the people who are going around scaring people into believing that certain foods, even in small quantities or occasionally, are going to give them cancer, sabotage their diet, make them fat even if they're hitting their calorie goals, and all the rest. And also people who are in a cycle of excessive restriction punctuated with overeating of foods that they actually really like but constantly deny themselves when "being good" really would benefit from a more balanced approach, i.e. eating 80-90% clean and allowing themselves to eat the "bad" foods that they really, really like in a controlled way.

renwicker

Hmmm........
So you understand the science of calories in versus calories out.

Yet, you state your belief that "processed and preservative laden foods" have some type of long term negative effect on the body and increase the odds of other health risks? Where is your science to back that statement up?
[/quote]

I deliberately wrote, belief. I have watched numerous docs and read countless articles about nutrition/food and how it can effect health. I'll find some statistics if you really want them. Eating whole foods decreases chance of cancers, alzheimers, diabetes, and countless other health risks. Im not promoting clean dieting. And my diary is certainly not.

tedrickp

Also, usually in nutritional context, the terms "Dirty" and "Clean" refers to the amount of calories you intake so your arguement is invalid

This is like the 10th different explanation i have seen on this site about what "dirty" and "clean" mean in a nutritional context.

That alone makes me think it is an issue I shouldn't really focus on.

JisatsuHoshi

Personally im just more focused on IIFYM...

evansproudmama

For me clean eating is about being healthy from the inside out. Putting only the best of things into my body and the way my skin appears when I eat clean vs processed foods. Also the way my body works and functions when I eat clean not about the weight loss. You are right I think people miss the point

JessicaBR13

renwicker

Well aren't you great! Although I would like to point out to you the irony of preaching to people while treating food "like medicine" instead of treating it like it is, which is a source of energy.

Also, usually in nutritional context, the terms "Dirty" and "Clean" refers to the amount of calories you intake so your arguement is invalid
[/quote]

Hey Thanks! I think you're great too! Sorry if I sounded preachy. I got a little off topic from my initial point of sharing. I really dont care if people eat Wendys all day. To each his own. I was more so addressing the countless threads stating that clean eating made them lose weight when it was really just eating less.

Food is energy. Not disputing that fact. But, good foods can also cure disease and greatly decrease health issues. Thats what I meant by medicine. Due some reading on Medical Nutrition Therapy.

renwicker

Also, usually in nutritional context, the terms "Dirty" and "Clean" refers to the amount of calories you intake so your arguement is invalid

This is like the 10th different explanation i have seen on this site about what "dirty" and "clean" mean in a nutritional context.

That alone makes me think it is an issue I shouldn't really focus on.

haha ya....there isnt a true def that ive found. It's just a craze that will pass.

PhattiPhat

I want to start by saying that I hate the terms "Clean" and "Dirty" when it comes to food.

(

---

words words words

---

) snipped

Just make smart choices when you decide what you're putting into your body. I think we all know what is good and what is bad. It's still ok to treat yourself to some cake and beer sometimes. Don't make yourself miserable for the sake of eating "Clean."

<b>My overall point is.....eating mostly fruits, vegetables, fish, lean meat, and whole grains is important in a long term diet. The "clean/dirty" discussion should not just be about weight loss. It's about sustainable health.</b>

(some good articles to read on the subject)

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/should-you-be-eating-clean/

http://health.yahoo.net/articles/nutrition/what-clean-eating-and-should-you-try-it

1. OP doesn't like labeling foods.
2. OP proceeds to label food.

renwicker

the problem is that there are some people who are saying that you can *never* eat any kind of "junk" food and be healthy, succeed at weight loss, etc. And it's not about what they choose for themselves, it's the fact that they're going round telling other people that they're going to fail at fat loss because they sometimes eat "bad" food, or they're shaming people for eating McDonalds, or they're beating themselves up about bingeing on "bad" food.... food puritanism isn't good for mental health, and it's not sustainable for the vast majority of people. If you can eat nothing but "clean" foods for your entire life, then go for it. Whatever. But the majority of people won't be able to sustain that for life, so people going round telling them they can never eat (add favourite "junk" food here), or shaming them for eating it, or when people beat themselves up for bingeing on it (because they weren't able to sustain 100% clean eating), then people do need to be told that it IS okay to eat all those things as part of a balanced diet..... which is exactly what IIFYM is.

what you're describing, i.e. you say that the majority of the food you eat is clean, is no different to what people who do IIFYM eat. You can't eat nothing but "junk" food and hit your macros, because you'll be way over on fat and carbs before you get enough protein. You *have to* eat nutritious food or you won't hit your macros by the end of the day. Eating nothing but pizza, for example, is never going to fit into your macros, however you can squeeze a slice or two of pizza into your macros if you're careful about everything else you eat in a day (and "everything else" in this example is going to end up being food that the clean eaters consider clean, because otherwise you'd not be able to fit pizza into your macros)

No-one is saying eat nothing but junk. they're just calling out all the people who are going around scaring people into believing that certain foods, even in small quantities or occasionally, are going to give them cancer, sabotage their diet, make them fat even if they're hitting their calorie goals, and all the rest. And also people who are in a cycle of excessive restriction punctuated with overeating of foods that they actually really like but constantly deny themselves when "being good" really would benefit from a more balanced approach, i.e. eating 80-90% clean and allowing themselves to eat the "bad" foods that they really, really like in a controlled way.

Thank you for your feedback. I couldnt agree more. Sorry if it was unclear in my post.....I dont follow the whole Clean eating thing. Just addressing the issues that people seem to get hung up on with it. I find the plan to be flawed in some aspects, but it does offer some good theory. The links i put in the original post go into those issues in great length.

nomeejerome

Hmmm........
So you understand the science of calories in versus calories out.

Yet, you state your belief that "processed and preservative laden foods" have some type of long term negative effect on the body and increase the odds of other health risks? Where is your science to back that statement up?

I deliberately wrote, belief. I have watched numerous docs and read countless articles about nutrition/food and how it can effect health. I'll find some statistics if you really want them. Eating whole foods decreases chance of cancers, alzheimers, diabetes, and countless other health risks. Im not promoting clean dieting. And my diary is certainly not.

No. You do not have to go find some statistics to post here.

JisatsuHoshi

People have to find what works best for them. Truthfully I rarely eat clean... on a high fat/very low carb diet.

renwicker

I want to start by saying that I hate the terms "Clean" and "Dirty" when it comes to food.

(

---

words words words

---

) snipped

Just make smart choices when you decide what you're putting into your body. I think we all know what is good and what is bad. It's still ok to treat yourself to some cake and beer sometimes. Don't make yourself miserable for the sake of eating "Clean."

<b>My overall point is.....eating mostly fruits, vegetables, fish, lean meat, and whole grains is important in a long term diet. The "clean/dirty" discussion should not just be about weight loss. It's about sustainable health.</b>

(some good articles to read on the subject)

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/should-you-be-eating-clean/

http://health.yahoo.net/articles/nutrition/what-clean-eating-and-should-you-try-it

1. OP doesn't like labeling foods.
2. OP proceeds to label food.

hahah Touche... love the meme. edit: We're adults, we know carrots are better for you than tv dinners.

How's that?

lauraleighsm

Seriously? Get cancer and see the list of foods and food additives you're supposed to avoid. Somehow, I think food corporations just laugh at people like us, fighting over the ignorance of toxins in our food supply. Want to stay ignorant, fine but you're eyes will be opened to our toxins after you get cancer. 80% of cancers are linked to environmental toxins.

I don't care what someone else eats, but I do believe we have a right to go into our grocery and know what's in the processed junk. Gmos, potassium bromate, and other nasties.

[quotant to start by saying that I hate the terms "Clean" and "Dirty" when it comes to food.

Oh, the arguement about what works best for weight loss. I feel a lot of people on here are reeeeeally missing the boat with the whole "clean vs. dirty" discussion. Is eating clean going to help you lose more weight, lose it faster, and have the flatter stomach? IDK.....probably not. Whether you have a sustained diet of corndogs and potato chips or one of organic blackberries and raw kale salads with no dressing, if you are eating less calories than your body exausts, you will lose weight. Calories in, calories out....it's science.

That being said, I eat more whole foods than I do pasta and pizza. Why? First off...I can eat way more of it, and I love food. More importantly, I DO believe that heavily processed and preservative laden foods can have long term negative effects on your body and increase odds of health risks. Aren't there more important things than just weight loss to consider when discussing a diet? Why are you trying to lose weight or be fit? To live longer?....To avoid chronic or terminal disease as you age?....Just to feel better during the day?

Hmmm........
So you understand the science of calories in versus calories out.

Yet, you state your belief that "processed and preservative laden foods" have some type of long term negative effect on the body and increase the odds of other health risks? Where is your science to back that statement up?
[/quote]

nomeejerome

Seriously? Get cancer and see the list of foods and food additives you're supposed to avoid. Somehow, I think food corporations just laugh at people like us, fighting over the ignorance of toxins in our food supply. Want to stay ignorant, fine but you're eyes will be opened to our toxins after you get cancer. 80% of cancers are linked to environmental toxins.

I don't care what someone else eats, but I do believe we have a right to go into our grocery and know what's in the processed junk. Gmos, potassium bromate, and other nasties.

oh geez.

81Katz

CLEAN eating vs. DIRTY eating for dummies:


CLEAN: 5 second rule when the food falls on the floor


DIRTY: You fail to retrieve the food off the floor within the allotted 5 seconds

astronaught

Seriously? Get cancer and see the list of foods and food additives you're supposed to avoid. Somehow, I think food corporations just laugh at people like us, fighting over the ignorance of toxins in our food supply. Want to stay ignorant, fine but you're eyes will be opened to our toxins after you get cancer. 80% of cancers are linked to environmental toxins.

I don't care what someone else eats, but I do believe we have a right to go into our grocery and know what's in the processed junk. Gmos, potassium bromate, and other nasties.

I don't want to remain ignorant. Please provide me with any evidence that 80% of cancers are linked to environmental toxins.

PhattiPhat

CLEAN eating vs. DIRTY eating for dummies:


CLEAN: 5 second rule when the food falls on the floor


DIRTY: You fail to retrieve the food off the floor within the allotted 5 seconds

JisatsuHoshi

CLEAN eating vs. DIRTY eating for dummies:


CLEAN: 5 second rule when the food falls on the floor


DIRTY: You fail to retrieve the food off the floor within the allotted 5 seconds

Made my day ha!

afreelandgti

Ppl need to stop trying to convert other ppl as if they've been privy to certain information since they were born. Sometimes ppl just need to learn through trial and error. The OP was right about a lot of things he wrote, only issue I have is man sometimes ppl just need to learn on their own. If ppl have different definitions of 'clean' eating let them have that. If ppl believe they lost weight because they started eating clean and refuse to acknowledge or understand weight loss is about cals in and cals out let them have that. We all have to learn through trial and error. Not many ppl here have been fitness and nutrition gurus for most of their life.


Be patient with those who don't know or understand. Send them a PM with some good advice if you have knowledge that they don't have.

nomeejerome

Ppl need to stop trying to convert other ppl as if they've been privy to certain information since they were born. Sometimes ppl just need to learn through trial and error. The OP was right about a lot of things he wrote, only issue I have is man sometimes ppl just need to learn on their own. If ppl have different definitions of 'clean' eating let them have that. If ppl believe they lost weight because they started eating clean and refuse to acknowledge or understand weight loss is about cals in and cals out let them have that. We all have to learn through trial and error. Not many ppl here have been fitness and nutrition gurus for most of their life.


Be patient with those who don't know or understand. Send them a PM with some good advice if you have knowledge that they don't have.

Sending a PM is nice and all, but it is beneficial to spread that knowledge in the main forums to clarify wrong information.

CookNLift

another one of these threads? whatever happened to discussing "Food and Nutrition". Rather than venting about how other people talk give your side with evidence and let people do what they want. I eat whatever fits and make healthy choices, but some others eat strictly clean. If they want to let them, it's their body and their point of view. Let it be. I wish these I hate paleo, why clean eating is bs, etc threads would stop and people actually gave constructive criticism which is what this site is for.

renwicker

Ppl need to stop trying to convert other ppl as if they've been privy to certain information since they were born. Sometimes ppl just need to learn through trial and error. The OP was right about a lot of things he wrote, only issue I have is man sometimes ppl just need to learn on their own. If ppl have different definitions of 'clean' eating let them have that. If ppl believe they lost weight because they started eating clean and refuse to acknowledge or understand weight loss is about cals in and cals out let them have that. We all have to learn through trial and error. Not many ppl here have been fitness and nutrition gurus for most of their life.


Be patient with those who don't know or understand. Send them a PM with some good advice if you have knowledge that they don't have.

Thanks for the post. I certainly wouldnt call myself a guru, but I have learned a lot. I recently got into fitness and health about 2 years ago and have tried to educate myself as much as posible. Through trial and error as you said I do try and take it seriously and am always looking to learn something new. Unfortunately, not everyone else feels the same way.