Clean/Dirty...missing the point
Replies
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CLEAN eating vs. DIRTY eating for dummies:
CLEAN: 5 second rule when the food falls on the floor
DIRTY: You fail to retrieve the food off the floor within the allotted 5 seconds
Winner! /thread!0 -
another one of these threads? whatever happened to discussing "Food and Nutrition". Rather than venting about how other people talk give your side with evidence and let people do what they want. I eat whatever fits and make healthy choices, but some others eat strictly clean. If they want to let them, it's their body and their point of view. Let it be. I wish these I hate paleo, why clean eating is bs, etc threads would stop and people actually gave constructive criticism which is what this site is for.
Not sure if this is directed to my original post or not. If it is, I'm sorry to have sparked yet another Clean eating debate. Not my intentions. I was merely trying to state that I think sometimes people get caught up on weight loss and strict diets...and only eating a certain way. Certainly find what works best for you. I wasnt slamming clean eating or paleo or whatever. Most of them have great things to offer. Thats one of the reasons they are so popular. My post was supossed to start a convo on food and nutrition. Instead its a pissing match of whos smarter.0 -
Yep.
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another one of these threads? whatever happened to discussing "Food and Nutrition". Rather than venting about how other people talk give your side with evidence and let people do what they want. I eat whatever fits and make healthy choices, but some others eat strictly clean. If they want to let them, it's their body and their point of view. Let it be. I wish these I hate paleo, why clean eating is bs, etc threads would stop and people actually gave constructive criticism which is what this site is for.
Also this.0 -
Ppl need to stop trying to convert other ppl as if they've been privy to certain information since they were born. Sometimes ppl just need to learn through trial and error. The OP was right about a lot of things he wrote, only issue I have is man sometimes ppl just need to learn on their own. If ppl have different definitions of 'clean' eating let them have that. If ppl believe they lost weight because they started eating clean and refuse to acknowledge or understand weight loss is about cals in and cals out let them have that. We all have to learn through trial and error. Not many ppl here have been fitness and nutrition gurus for most of their life.
Be patient with those who don't know or understand. Send them a PM with some good advice if you have knowledge that they don't have.
Totally agree with everything EXCEPT calories in/calories out, with the stipulation that it is true for healthy people with no underlying issues like Metabolic X, insulin resistance, or AI and neurological disorders. The research that I have read while trying to get myself somewhat back to normal has been pretty clear, and refined carbs make it really hard for me to lose weight. My macros are crazy
My diary is public if anyone wants to look. Specifically, I am trying to get fibromyalgia (diagnosis of the month) under control. Since the AI protocol is the same, if it turns out to be MS or Lupus, I am still covered.
Again, I don't preach that my way is the be all and end all, but for others with my particular health issues, I would definitely recommend giving it a shot.
By the way, I don't do it perfectly, I do allow myself a day off a week (though I sometimes pay for it), and I am FEELING better, which is actually more the point than losing weight0 -
Ppl need to stop trying to convert other ppl as if they've been privy to certain information since they were born. Sometimes ppl just need to learn through trial and error. The OP was right about a lot of things he wrote, only issue I have is man sometimes ppl just need to learn on their own. If ppl have different definitions of 'clean' eating let them have that. If ppl believe they lost weight because they started eating clean and refuse to acknowledge or understand weight loss is about cals in and cals out let them have that. We all have to learn through trial and error. Not many ppl here have been fitness and nutrition gurus for most of their life.
Be patient with those who don't know or understand. Send them a PM with some good advice if you have knowledge that they don't have.
Totally agree with everything EXCEPT calories in/calories out, with the stipulation that it is true for healthy people with no underlying issues like Metabolic X, insulin resistance, or AI and neurological disorders. The research that I have read while trying to get myself somewhat back to normal has been pretty clear, and refined carbs make it really hard for me to lose weight. My macros are crazy My diary is public if anyone wants to look. Specifically, I am trying to get fibromyalgia (diagnosis of the month) under control. Since the AI protocol is the same, if it turns out to be MS or Lupus, I am still covered.
Again, I don't preach that my way is the be all and end all, but for others with my particular health issues, I would definitely recommend giving it a shot.
By the way, I don't do it perfectly, I do allow myself a day off a week (though I sometimes pay for it), and I am FEELING better, which is actually more the point than losing weight
Aside from eating well, I have no advice. I've read and watched documentaries of some really severe ailments being healed by being on really vitamin rich diets. Like REEEALLY rich. Maybe look into Medical Nutrition Therapy. Its quite fascinating. (sure beats being on medication forever) Other than that, I am completely ignorant on situations like this, so I'm not going to pretend like I know. I wish you all the luck with it tho!0 -
People have to find what works best for them. Truthfully I rarely eat clean... on a high fat/very low carb diet.
My macros are 50% fat, 25-30% protein, and the rest unrefined carbs from veggies and limited fruits
I'm doing Paleo (which is one definition of clean) to sort out some health issues. So high fat/low carb has nothing to do with whether you are "clean" or not, unless you are living on Atkins products, in which case a Primal/Paleo person would say, "No can do for me, too much soy and sucralose." But they wouldn't call you dirty
And it doesn't really matter if you are clean or not. This is the only site where I have seen the word "dirty" used. I've never seen someone on another site say "Oh, that food is dirty." I've also never seen anyone claim to be 100% perfect. I'm having ice cream tonight, dammit. I'm going to justify it by calling it ketogenic cycling :laugh:0 -
For me clean eating is about being healthy from the inside out. Putting only the best of things into my body and the way my skin appears when I eat clean vs processed foods. Also the way my body works and functions when I eat clean not about the weight loss. You are right I think people miss the point
Exactly!0 -
Well technically as far as weight loss (and not some other argument like a healthier diet for a lifetime) don't you think whatever the individual is able to stick to and finds easiest, works best for them?0
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Thought I'd find you on here posting that same ol' South Park pic. Way to keep it fresh.
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Well technically as far as weight loss (and not some other argument like a healthier diet for a lifetime) don't you think whatever the individual is able to stick to and finds easiest, works best for them?
Yep. But for some of us older folk who have yo-yo'd for a LONG time, and who have health issues, they need to be one and the same. This isn't something I can do until I lose the weight and then stop. If I want to be in less pain, I need to eat this way.
That said, what I do is for ME. I'm not going to tell anyone else to do it instead of something else. Come to think of it, if you want the weight loss to be permanent, moderation is a lifestyle change for many too. It has to become permanent for lasting results.
So I guess it's really whatever works and is sustainable for an individual that matters. A healthy 25 year old who simply wants to lose excess weight doesn't have the same needs that I do. Perfectly cool with me
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Here's a list of carcinogens (stuff that actually causes cancer based on scientific research):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcinogen
I don't see McDonald's burger, or any other fast food with refined carbs on it.
To me the only reasons to eat clean or low carb are a medical condition or aesthetics (body building), otherwise it's basically calories in vs. calories out.0 -
Well technically as far as weight loss (and not some other argument like a healthier diet for a lifetime) don't you think whatever the individual is able to stick to and finds easiest, works best for them?
Yep. But for some of us older folk who have yo-yo'd for a LONG time, and who have health issues, they need to be one and the same. This isn't something I can do until I lose the weight and then stop. If I want to be in less pain, I need to eat this way.
That said, what I do is for ME. I'm not going to tell anyone else to do it instead of something else. Come to think of it, if you want the weight loss to be permanent, moderation is a lifestyle change for many too. It has to become permanent for lasting results.
So I guess it's really whatever works and is sustainable for an individual that matters. A healthy 25 year old who simply wants to lose excess weight doesn't have the same needs that I do. Perfectly cool with me
That's cool. That was definitely my point, and good for you. I prefer unprocessed food also, although I admit I never heard 'clean food' until I came here and then had to look it up. If it wasn't for my red wine, I'd be pretty close too. Perhaps I'm a cleantarian. ;-)0 -
For the OP-
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I want to start by saying that I hate the terms "Clean" and "Dirty" when it comes to food.
Oh, the arguement about what works best for weight loss. I feel a lot of people on here are reeeeeally missing the boat with the whole "clean vs. dirty" discussion. Is eating clean going to help you lose more weight, lose it faster, and have the flatter stomach? IDK.....probably not. Whether you have a sustained diet of corndogs and potato chips or one of organic blackberries and raw kale salads with no dressing, if you are eating less calories than your body exausts, you will lose weight. Calories in, calories out....it's science.
That being said, I eat more whole foods than I do pasta and pizza. Why? First off...I can eat way more of it, and I love food. More importantly, I DO believe that heavily processed and preservative laden foods can have long term negative effects on your body and increase odds of health risks. Aren't there more important things than just weight loss to consider when discussing a diet? Why are you trying to lose weight or be fit? To live longer?....To avoid chronic or terminal disease as you age?....Just to feel better during the day?
I believe in food, and just like exercise, it is medicine for our bodies. Weight loss aside, the majority of the food I ingest is nutrient dense because it is superior. I think I will have a longer and better quality life because of it.
Just make smart choices when you decide what you're putting into your body. I think we all know what is good and what is bad. It's still ok to treat yourself to some cake and beer sometimes. Don't make yourself miserable for the sake of eating "Clean."
<b>My overall point is.....eating mostly fruits, vegetables, fish, lean meat, and whole grains is important in a long term diet. The "clean/dirty" discussion should not just be about weight loss. It's about sustainable health.</b>
(some good articles to read on the subject)
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/should-you-be-eating-clean/
http://health.yahoo.net/articles/nutrition/what-clean-eating-and-should-you-try-it
Well aren't you great! Although I would like to point out to you the irony of preaching to people while treating food "like medicine" instead of treating it like it is, which is a source of energy.
Also, usually in nutritional context, the terms "Dirty" and "Clean" refers to the amount of calories you intake so your arguement is invalid
Don't be mistaken food is medicine!
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For the OP-
New mantra
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I want to start by saying that I hate the terms "Clean" and "Dirty" when it comes to food.
Oh, the arguement about what works best for weight loss. I feel a lot of people on here are reeeeeally missing the boat with the whole "clean vs. dirty" discussion. Is eating clean going to help you lose more weight, lose it faster, and have the flatter stomach? IDK.....probably not. Whether you have a sustained diet of corndogs and potato chips or one of organic blackberries and raw kale salads with no dressing, if you are eating less calories than your body exausts, you will lose weight. Calories in, calories out....it's science.
That being said, I eat more whole foods than I do pasta and pizza. Why? First off...I can eat way more of it, and I love food. More importantly, I DO believe that heavily processed and preservative laden foods can have long term negative effects on your body and increase odds of health risks. Aren't there more important things than just weight loss to consider when discussing a diet? Why are you trying to lose weight or be fit? To live longer?....To avoid chronic or terminal disease as you age?....Just to feel better during the day?
I believe in food, and just like exercise, it is medicine for our bodies. Weight loss aside, the majority of the food I ingest is nutrient dense because it is superior. I think I will have a longer and better quality life because of it.
Just make smart choices when you decide what you're putting into your body. I think we all know what is good and what is bad. It's still ok to treat yourself to some cake and beer sometimes. Don't make yourself miserable for the sake of eating "Clean."
<b>My overall point is.....eating mostly fruits, vegetables, fish, lean meat, and whole grains is important in a long term diet. The "clean/dirty" discussion should not just be about weight loss. It's about sustainable health.</b>
(some good articles to read on the subject)
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/should-you-be-eating-clean/
http://health.yahoo.net/articles/nutrition/what-clean-eating-and-should-you-try-it
Well aren't you great! Although I would like to point out to you the irony of preaching to people while treating food "like medicine" instead of treating it like it is, which is a source of energy.
Also, usually in nutritional context, the terms "Dirty" and "Clean" refers to the amount of calories you intake so your arguement is invalid
Don't be mistaken food is medicine!
Lol. Oh yea, didn't someone say that once, let's see....hippocrates maybe....the same named person that doctor's swear an oath of healing for....food is not medicine....lmao. What has our society turned into?0 -
I want to start by saying that I hate the terms "Clean" and "Dirty" when it comes to food.
Oh, the arguement about what works best for weight loss. I feel a lot of people on here are reeeeeally missing the boat with the whole "clean vs. dirty" discussion. Is eating clean going to help you lose more weight, lose it faster, and have the flatter stomach? IDK.....probably not. Whether you have a sustained diet of corndogs and potato chips or one of organic blackberries and raw kale salads with no dressing, if you are eating less calories than your body exausts, you will lose weight. Calories in, calories out....it's science.
That being said, I eat more whole foods than I do pasta and pizza. Why? First off...I can eat way more of it, and I love food. More importantly, I DO believe that heavily processed and preservative laden foods can have long term negative effects on your body and increase odds of health risks. Aren't there more important things than just weight loss to consider when discussing a diet? Why are you trying to lose weight or be fit? To live longer?....To avoid chronic or terminal disease as you age?....Just to feel better during the day?
Hmmm........
So you understand the science of calories in versus calories out.
Yet, you state your belief that "processed and preservative laden foods" have some type of long term negative effect on the body and increase the odds of other health risks? Where is your science to back that statement up?
Clearly you havnt researched the topic or have and just chose to ignore it which is cool with me to each their own but don't attack someone for sharing information with you just because you don't want to hear it...
Heres some sources for you to get started should you chose to educate yourself,
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/06/salt-autoimmune-disease-sodium-multiple-sclerosis-diabetes_n_2821200.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20009228-10391704.html
My son suffered from ADHD and severe constipation before we started eating 80% clean and now they have both been cleared up with no drugs. So please know what you are talking about before you attack someone who clearly does!
http://www.foodproductdesign.com/news/2013/07/group-scolds-pepsico-for-not-removing-chemical-li.aspx
The reason that they aren't going to come out and tell you that what you are eating is slowly (verly slowly over years and years) killing is for one reason and one reason only $$$$$
And for some flat out truth -
From ABC News:
Here are 11 ingredients noted as banned in other countries and what some experts have to say about them:
Blue #1 food coloring
Banned in Norway, Finland and France, Blue #1 and Blue #2 can be found in candy, cereal, drinks and pet food in the U.S., the Caltons say.
Blue #2 food coloring
"Until the twentieth century, food coloring was obtained from natural sources," Jayson and Mira Calton write in "Rich Food, Poor Food." "People gathered spices, like saffron and turmeric, to add rich hues to their otherwise bland-colored foods. While this method may have been somewhat limiting in shades, at least it was safe. Today, most artificial colors are made from coal tar."
Yellow #5 (Tartazine), Yellow #6 food coloring
Yellow #5 is banned in Norway and Austria due to compounds benzidine and 4-aminobiphenyl, the Caltons say.
"Six of the eleven studies on yellow #5 showed that it caused genotoxicity, a deterioration of the cell's genetic material with potential to mutate healthy DNA," the book, "Rich Foods, Poor Foods," states.
Red #40
"Red #40 may contain the carcinogenic contaminant p-Cresidine and is thought to cause tumors of the immune system," according to "Rich Food, Poor Food". "In the UK, it is not recommended for children," the Caltons write, but it is approved for use in the EU.
Brominated vegetable oil
Brominated vegetable oil, or BVO, acts as an emulsifier in soda and sports drinks, preventing the flavoring from separating and floating to the surface. The ingredient is banned more than 100 countries because it contains bromine, a chemical whose vapors can be corrosive or toxic, the Caltons say.
Azodicarbonamide
This ingredient, which can bleach flour, is banned in Australia, the U.K. and many European countries, said the Caltons, who call it an "asthma-causing" allergen. Up to 45 parts per million is considered safe in the U.S. and it's found in a wide range of breads and baked goods here.
Olestra (Olean)
Olestra fat substitute is banned in the U.K. and Canada because it causes a depletion of fat-soluble vitamins and carotenoid, the Caltons say, "robbing us of vital micronutrients that our foods should be delivering."
It is found in Ruffles Light and Lay's WOW chips. Frito-Lay did not return a request for comment about its use of Olestra.
utylated Hydroxyanisole (BHA) and Butylated Hydroxytoluene (BHT)
Banned in England, and other European countries, "these waxy solids act as preservatives to prevent food from becoming rancid and developing objectionable odors," the Caltons write.
The state of California lists this ingredient as a possible carcinogen.
rBGH and rBST
Recombinant bovine growth hormone and recombinant bovine somatotropin, a synthetic version of bovine growth hormone, can be found in nonorganic dairy products unless noted on the packaging.
"However, several regions, including Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan, and the European Union, have banned rBGH and rBST because of their dangerous impacts on both human and bovine health," the Caltons say.
YUMMY ENJOY!!!0 -
And just one more for you...
For a list of "natural" flavorings in your food that they arent required by law to list see this article
Just a little sneak peak for ya -
"MSG, Aspartame and bugs in your food are all considered "natural flavors" and "natural colors"
Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/036308_natural_flavors_MSG_aspartame.html#ixzz2Yxuxk98U0 -
Seriously? Get cancer and see the list of foods and food additives you're supposed to avoid. Somehow, I think food corporations just laugh at people like us, fighting over the ignorance of toxins in our food supply. Want to stay ignorant, fine but you're eyes will be opened to our toxins after you get cancer. 80% of cancers are linked to environmental toxins.
I don't care what someone else eats, but I do believe we have a right to go into our grocery and know what's in the processed junk. Gmos, potassium bromate, and other nasties.
Ummm, you might like to back that up with a creditable, peer reviewed, published article. Otherwise I call BS on your claims. For one thing you are completely disregarding the genetic component? As someone who works with cancer patients every day, I can say it is my experience that cancer effects people from all walks of life... including clean eaters.0 -
Seriously? Get cancer and see the list of foods and food additives you're supposed to avoid. Somehow, I think food corporations just laugh at people like us, fighting over the ignorance of toxins in our food supply. Want to stay ignorant, fine but you're eyes will be opened to our toxins after you get cancer. 80% of cancers are linked to environmental toxins.
I don't care what someone else eats, but I do believe we have a right to go into our grocery and know what's in the processed junk. Gmos, potassium bromate, and other nasties.
Ummm, you might like to back that up with a creditable, peer reviewed, published article. Otherwise I call BS on your claims. For one thing you are completely disregarding the genetic component? As someone who works with cancer patients every day, I can say it is my experience that cancer effects people from all walks of life... including clean eaters.
I have to say I see a lot of people around here saying that...'show me your article'. There are a lot of studies done on both sides, but let's not pretend they are not out there or that people are making **** up of the top of their head.
As far as that goes, reminds me of my doctor couple friends we had dinner with. My husband brought up alkaline water and the health benefits and they quickly said, 'water is water, no health benefits'. One of these doctor's was a radiolist/oncologist. I told my story to another friend and she laughed and said, 'my uncle's oncologist actually told him to drink alkaline water during his chemo treatments.'. You are not going to find agreement in these areas always. But medicine and knowledge of this stuff is still evolving. I'm sure glad I'm open minded as it evolves, and I'd prefer a doctor that is too.0 -
Seriously? Get cancer and see the list of foods and food additives you're supposed to avoid. Somehow, I think food corporations just laugh at people like us, fighting over the ignorance of toxins in our food supply. Want to stay ignorant, fine but you're eyes will be opened to our toxins after you get cancer. 80% of cancers are linked to environmental toxins.
I don't care what someone else eats, but I do believe we have a right to go into our grocery and know what's in the processed junk. Gmos, potassium bromate, and other nasties.
That's an interesting business model - poison and then kill your customers.
Makes perfect sense to me....
Think it's time for me to start a new business and I'll call it "The Nameless Toxin Company".0 -
Seriously? Get cancer and see the list of foods and food additives you're supposed to avoid. Somehow, I think food corporations just laugh at people like us, fighting over the ignorance of toxins in our food supply. Want to stay ignorant, fine but you're eyes will be opened to our toxins after you get cancer. 80% of cancers are linked to environmental toxins.
I don't care what someone else eats, but I do believe we have a right to go into our grocery and know what's in the processed junk. Gmos, potassium bromate, and other nasties.
That's an interesting business model - poison and then kill your customers.
Makes perfect sense to me....
Think it's time for me to start a new business and I'll call it "The Nameless Toxin Company".
I have an easier one for you. My brother also thinks organic food is baloney. So, when I brought some over to his house, I also brought over a bottle of raid and offered to spray it and wash it off. Voila, instant non organic. Now you can take care of two people's tastes with one toxic bottle. :-)0 -
Seriously? Get cancer and see the list of foods and food additives you're supposed to avoid. Somehow, I think food corporations just laugh at people like us, fighting over the ignorance of toxins in our food supply. Want to stay ignorant, fine but you're eyes will be opened to our toxins after you get cancer. 80% of cancers are linked to environmental toxins.
I don't care what someone else eats, but I do believe we have a right to go into our grocery and know what's in the processed junk. Gmos, potassium bromate, and other nasties.
Ummm, you might like to back that up with a creditable, peer reviewed, published article. Otherwise I call BS on your claims. For one thing you are completely disregarding the genetic component? As someone who works with cancer patients every day, I can say it is my experience that cancer effects people from all walks of life... including clean eaters.
I have to say I see a lot of people around here saying that...'show me your article'. There are a lot of studies done on both sides, but let's not pretend they are not out there or that people are making **** up of the top of their head.
As far as that goes, reminds me of my doctor couple friends we had dinner with. My husband brought up alkaline water and the health benefits and they quickly said, 'water is water, no health benefits'. One of these doctor's was a radiolist/oncologist. I told my story to another friend and she laughed and said, 'my uncle's oncologist actually told him to drink alkaline water during his chemo treatments.'. You are not going to find agreement in these areas always. But medicine and knowledge of this stuff is still evolving. I'm sure glad I'm open minded as it evolves, and I'd prefer a doctor that is too.
The unfortunate truth is that degrees do not prevent someone from believing in things that are not supported by scientific evidence. There is zero evidence, for example, that eating organics have any medical benefits. Plenty of people continue to eat them, however, based on the belief that some link to health will eventually be found. I think that approach is fine but those who do so should be intellectually honest about that decision. I've seen enough scare tactics over the years to simply stop caring about the myriad hypotheses about how our food system is unsafe and instead will continue to eat based on established science with some jumps in reasoning in the grey areas. If you chose to do differently, please feel free, but stop attempting to cajole and scare people into agreeing with you. It's both intellectually dishonest and boorish.0 -
Seriously? Get cancer and see the list of foods and food additives you're supposed to avoid. Somehow, I think food corporations just laugh at people like us, fighting over the ignorance of toxins in our food supply. Want to stay ignorant, fine but you're eyes will be opened to our toxins after you get cancer. 80% of cancers are linked to environmental toxins.
I don't care what someone else eats, but I do believe we have a right to go into our grocery and know what's in the processed junk. Gmos, potassium bromate, and other nasties.
Ummm, you might like to back that up with a creditable, peer reviewed, published article. Otherwise I call BS on your claims. For one thing you are completely disregarding the genetic component? As someone who works with cancer patients every day, I can say it is my experience that cancer effects people from all walks of life... including clean eaters.
I have to say I see a lot of people around here saying that...'show me your article'. There are a lot of studies done on both sides, but let's not pretend they are not out there or that people are making **** up of the top of their head.
As far as that goes, reminds me of my doctor couple friends we had dinner with. My husband brought up alkaline water and the health benefits and they quickly said, 'water is water, no health benefits'. One of these doctor's was a radiolist/oncologist. I told my story to another friend and she laughed and said, 'my uncle's oncologist actually told him to drink alkaline water during his chemo treatments.'. You are not going to find agreement in these areas always. But medicine and knowledge of this stuff is still evolving. I'm sure glad I'm open minded as it evolves, and I'd prefer a doctor that is too.
The unfortunate truth is that degrees do not prevent someone from believing in things that are not supported by scientific evidence. There is zero evidence, for example, that eating organics have any medical benefits. Plenty of people continue to eat them, however, based on the belief that some link to health will eventually be found. I think that approach is fine but those who do so should be intellectually honest about that decision. I've seen enough scare tactics over the years to simply stop caring about the myriad hypotheses about how our food system is unsafe and instead will continue to eat based on established science with some jumps in reasoning in the grey areas. If you chose to do differently, please feel free, but stop attempting to cajole and scare people into agreeing with you. It's both intellectually dishonest and boorish.
Well, actually...again, there are studies on both sides 'proving' their side. So that's really not true.
But, we don't know eachother. And I can tell you I don't try to cajole or convince anyone. People can eat what they want....but, that includes me too of course.0 -
Seriously? Get cancer and see the list of foods and food additives you're supposed to avoid. Somehow, I think food corporations just laugh at people like us, fighting over the ignorance of toxins in our food supply. Want to stay ignorant, fine but you're eyes will be opened to our toxins after you get cancer. 80% of cancers are linked to environmental toxins.
I don't care what someone else eats, but I do believe we have a right to go into our grocery and know what's in the processed junk. Gmos, potassium bromate, and other nasties.
I did.
Here's the list:
Don't eat Grapefruit
Don't eat Beets
You're welcome.
ETA: Cancer is caused by lots of factors. The scare mongering on cancer is out of control.
http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/
ETA, ETA: I was also reminded I couldn't eat raw fish like sushi and oysters. Other than that, raw fruits and vegetables were limited, but allowed. Meats were recommended to me, particularly pork and chicken. Breads were recommended to eat all the time (hard for someone who doesn't care for bread that much), ditto pastas. Basically, it was the diet a clean eater would be upset by because I was told to cut way back on fresh fruit and veggie consumption and go for the boxed stuff because of fear of e coli and salmonella. Beets and grapefruit were the only ones absolutely forbidden because they contain some natural enzyme that interferes with chemotherapy's efficacy.0 -
Seriously? Get cancer and see the list of foods and food additives you're supposed to avoid. Somehow, I think food corporations just laugh at people like us, fighting over the ignorance of toxins in our food supply. Want to stay ignorant, fine but you're eyes will be opened to our toxins after you get cancer. 80% of cancers are linked to environmental toxins.
I don't care what someone else eats, but I do believe we have a right to go into our grocery and know what's in the processed junk. Gmos, potassium bromate, and other nasties.
Ummm, you might like to back that up with a creditable, peer reviewed, published article. Otherwise I call BS on your claims. For one thing you are completely disregarding the genetic component? As someone who works with cancer patients every day, I can say it is my experience that cancer effects people from all walks of life... including clean eaters.
I have to say I see a lot of people around here saying that...'show me your article'. There are a lot of studies done on both sides, but let's not pretend they are not out there or that people are making **** up of the top of their head.
As far as that goes, reminds me of my doctor couple friends we had dinner with. My husband brought up alkaline water and the health benefits and they quickly said, 'water is water, no health benefits'. One of these doctor's was a radiolist/oncologist. I told my story to another friend and she laughed and said, 'my uncle's oncologist actually told him to drink alkaline water during his chemo treatments.'. You are not going to find agreement in these areas always. But medicine and knowledge of this stuff is still evolving. I'm sure glad I'm open minded as it evolves, and I'd prefer a doctor that is too.
The unfortunate truth is that degrees do not prevent someone from believing in things that are not supported by scientific evidence. There is zero evidence, for example, that eating organics have any medical benefits. Plenty of people continue to eat them, however, based on the belief that some link to health will eventually be found. I think that approach is fine but those who do so should be intellectually honest about that decision. I've seen enough scare tactics over the years to simply stop caring about the myriad hypotheses about how our food system is unsafe and instead will continue to eat based on established science with some jumps in reasoning in the grey areas. If you chose to do differently, please feel free, but stop attempting to cajole and scare people into agreeing with you. It's both intellectually dishonest and boorish.
Well, actually...again, there are studies on both sides 'proving' their side. So that's really not true.
But, we don't know eachother. And I can tell you I don't try to cajole or convince anyone. People can eat what they want....but, that includes me too of course.
No. There is some speculation by reasonable and educated researchers that a link may exist but no proof. My aunt spent her career on the nutrition and cancer link after finishing her Ph.D from Harvard and a respectful stint at the NIH. From what I understand from her and from my own reading, very few cancers have been positively linked to nutrition or food supply and those that do have a link are from things like a lack of fiber. The rest is speculation and we are also seeing many genetic and even viral links to cancers. It's an incredibly complex subject and one in which reasonable minds will have competing hypotheses but the link between these food born "toxins" and cancer hasn't been found to exist, contrary to what certain scare mongering websites portray.
Edited to add: I want to add something here. We know that a diet rich in fruit, vegetables and grains, and therefore rich in vitamins and fiber, has benefits. We are also starting to identify some benefit from certain fruits and vegetables that are rich in antioxidants. No one here is arguing that. We also know that we need sufficient protein and fats and we can get these in a variety of ways, both quite easily with a omnivorous diet, and a bit more difficultly with approaches like vegetarianism and veganism. With that knowledge we can all improve our health and longevity and we can encourage others to do the same. The additional step, however, that there are some hidden dangers yet to be identified and which are clearly not proven, is simply one of speculation. I do not see the benefit in confusing the message and unnecessarily scaring people into restrictive or expensive diets when so much good can be accomplished by simply getting them to eat less, move more, and watch their basic nutritional intake. Again, keep the message honest. If you, as an individual, want to do more then please by all means do, but stop trying to scare and cajole people with a message that is full of half truths if not outright misinformation. If you want to speak of unknowns that's fine, but admit you are speaking of unknowns.0 -
http://www.foodproductdesign.com/news/2013/07/group-scolds-pepsico-for-not-removing-chemical-li.aspx
The reason that they aren't going to come out and tell you that what you are eating is slowly (verly slowly over years and years) killing is for one reason and one reason only $$$$$
You mean I can eat clean and live forever instead of taking years and years to die slowly? Immortality.......0 -
Seriously? Get cancer and see the list of foods and food additives you're supposed to avoid. Somehow, I think food corporations just laugh at people like us, fighting over the ignorance of toxins in our food supply. Want to stay ignorant, fine but you're eyes will be opened to our toxins after you get cancer. 80% of cancers are linked to environmental toxins.
I don't care what someone else eats, but I do believe we have a right to go into our grocery and know what's in the processed junk. Gmos, potassium bromate, and other nasties.
Ummm, you might like to back that up with a creditable, peer reviewed, published article. Otherwise I call BS on your claims. For one thing you are completely disregarding the genetic component? As someone who works with cancer patients every day, I can say it is my experience that cancer effects people from all walks of life... including clean eaters.
I have to say I see a lot of people around here saying that...'show me your article'. There are a lot of studies done on both sides, but let's not pretend they are not out there or that people are making **** up of the top of their head.
As far as that goes, reminds me of my doctor couple friends we had dinner with. My husband brought up alkaline water and the health benefits and they quickly said, 'water is water, no health benefits'. One of these doctor's was a radiolist/oncologist. I told my story to another friend and she laughed and said, 'my uncle's oncologist actually told him to drink alkaline water during his chemo treatments.'. You are not going to find agreement in these areas always. But medicine and knowledge of this stuff is still evolving. I'm sure glad I'm open minded as it evolves, and I'd prefer a doctor that is too.
The unfortunate truth is that degrees do not prevent someone from believing in things that are not supported by scientific evidence. There is zero evidence, for example, that eating organics have any medical benefits. Plenty of people continue to eat them, however, based on the belief that some link to health will eventually be found. I think that approach is fine but those who do so should be intellectually honest about that decision. I've seen enough scare tactics over the years to simply stop caring about the myriad hypotheses about how our food system is unsafe and instead will continue to eat based on established science with some jumps in reasoning in the grey areas. If you chose to do differently, please feel free, but stop attempting to cajole and scare people into agreeing with you. It's both intellectually dishonest and boorish.
Well, actually...again, there are studies on both sides 'proving' their side. So that's really not true.
But, we don't know eachother. And I can tell you I don't try to cajole or convince anyone. People can eat what they want....but, that includes me too of course.
No. There is some speculation by reasonable and educated researchers that a link may exist but no proof. My aunt spent her career on the nutrition and cancer link after finishing her Ph.D from Harvard and a respectful stint at the NIH. From what I understand from her and from my own reading, very few cancers have been positively linked to nutrition or food supply and those that do have a link are from things like a lack of fiber. The rest is speculation and we are also seeing many genetic and even viral links to cancers. It's an incredibly complex subject and one in which reasonable minds will have competing hypotheses but the link between these food born "toxins" and cancer hasn't been found to exist, contrary to what certain scare mongering websites portray.
Edited to add: I want to add something here. We know that a diet rich in fruit, vegetables and grains, and therefore rich in vitamins and fiber, has benefits. We are also starting to identify some benefit from certain fruits and vegetables that are rich in antioxidants. No one here is arguing that. We also know that we need sufficient protein and fats and we can get these in a variety of ways, both quite easily with a omnivorous diet, and a bit more difficultly with approaches like vegetarianism and veganism. With that knowledge we can all improve our health and longevity and we can encourage others to do the same. The additional step, however, that there are some hidden dangers yet to be identified and which are clearly not proven, is simply one of speculation. I do not see the benefit in confusing the message and unnecessarily scaring people into restrictive or expensive diets when so much good can be accomplished by simply getting them to eat less, move more, and watch their basic nutritional intake. Again, keep the message honest. If you, as an individual, want to do more then please by all means do, but stop trying to scare and cajole people with a message that is full of half truths if not outright misinformation. If you want to speak of unknowns that's fine, but admit you are speaking of unknowns.
Actually I didn't give any information at all. Please stop saying I did more than say there are studies on both sides and people can look them up themselves. And stop saying I'm trying to scare or cajole people. Or that I am intellectually dishonest and boorish. It's all uncalled for. If you don't want to eat organic, DON'T! But don't tell me not to tell other people things when I'm not even doing that, and if anyone seems to be, it appears to be you.
For me, I WILL stick to an organic diet for whatever flippin reason I want. Thank you.0 -
Seriously? Get cancer and see the list of foods and food additives you're supposed to avoid. Somehow, I think food corporations just laugh at people like us, fighting over the ignorance of toxins in our food supply. Want to stay ignorant, fine but you're eyes will be opened to our toxins after you get cancer. 80% of cancers are linked to environmental toxins.
I don't care what someone else eats, but I do believe we have a right to go into our grocery and know what's in the processed junk. Gmos, potassium bromate, and other nasties.
Ummm, you might like to back that up with a creditable, peer reviewed, published article. Otherwise I call BS on your claims. For one thing you are completely disregarding the genetic component? As someone who works with cancer patients every day, I can say it is my experience that cancer effects people from all walks of life... including clean eaters.
I have to say I see a lot of people around here saying that...'show me your article'. There are a lot of studies done on both sides, but let's not pretend they are not out there or that people are making **** up of the top of their head.
As far as that goes, reminds me of my doctor couple friends we had dinner with. My husband brought up alkaline water and the health benefits and they quickly said, 'water is water, no health benefits'. One of these doctor's was a radiolist/oncologist. I told my story to another friend and she laughed and said, 'my uncle's oncologist actually told him to drink alkaline water during his chemo treatments.'. You are not going to find agreement in these areas always. But medicine and knowledge of this stuff is still evolving. I'm sure glad I'm open minded as it evolves, and I'd prefer a doctor that is too.
The unfortunate truth is that degrees do not prevent someone from believing in things that are not supported by scientific evidence. There is zero evidence, for example, that eating organics have any medical benefits. Plenty of people continue to eat them, however, based on the belief that some link to health will eventually be found. I think that approach is fine but those who do so should be intellectually honest about that decision. I've seen enough scare tactics over the years to simply stop caring about the myriad hypotheses about how our food system is unsafe and instead will continue to eat based on established science with some jumps in reasoning in the grey areas. If you chose to do differently, please feel free, but stop attempting to cajole and scare people into agreeing with you. It's both intellectually dishonest and boorish.
Well, actually...again, there are studies on both sides 'proving' their side. So that's really not true.
But, we don't know eachother. And I can tell you I don't try to cajole or convince anyone. People can eat what they want....but, that includes me too of course.
No. There is some speculation by reasonable and educated researchers that a link may exist but no proof. My aunt spent her career on the nutrition and cancer link after finishing her Ph.D from Harvard and a respectful stint at the NIH. From what I understand from her and from my own reading, very few cancers have been positively linked to nutrition or food supply and those that do have a link are from things like a lack of fiber. The rest is speculation and we are also seeing many genetic and even viral links to cancers. It's an incredibly complex subject and one in which reasonable minds will have competing hypotheses but the link between these food born "toxins" and cancer hasn't been found to exist, contrary to what certain scare mongering websites portray.
Edited to add: I want to add something here. We know that a diet rich in fruit, vegetables and grains, and therefore rich in vitamins and fiber, has benefits. We are also starting to identify some benefit from certain fruits and vegetables that are rich in antioxidants. No one here is arguing that. We also know that we need sufficient protein and fats and we can get these in a variety of ways, both quite easily with a omnivorous diet, and a bit more difficultly with approaches like vegetarianism and veganism. With that knowledge we can all improve our health and longevity and we can encourage others to do the same. The additional step, however, that there are some hidden dangers yet to be identified and which are clearly not proven, is simply one of speculation. I do not see the benefit in confusing the message and unnecessarily scaring people into restrictive or expensive diets when so much good can be accomplished by simply getting them to eat less, move more, and watch their basic nutritional intake. Again, keep the message honest. If you, as an individual, want to do more then please by all means do, but stop trying to scare and cajole people with a message that is full of half truths if not outright misinformation. If you want to speak of unknowns that's fine, but admit you are speaking of unknowns.
Actually I didn't give any information at all. Please stop saying I did more than say there are studies on both sides and people can look them up themselves. And stop saying I'm trying to scare or cajole people. Or that I am intellectually dishonest and boorish. It's all uncalled for. If you don't want to eat organic, DON'T! But don't tell me not to tell other people things when I'm not even doing that, and if anyone seems to be, it appears to be you.
For me, I WILL stick to an organic diet for whatever flippin reason I want. Thank you.
You said that there are studies on both "sides" "proving" their points. That is incorrect. Wildly incorrect actually. As I said, though, please do eat how you like. I am absolutely not arguing that anyone should not make the decision for themselves but when people come on here publicly claiming what you have claimed I will continue to point out that it is wrong. Best of luck though and stay well. You're welcome.0
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