No Meat for Week
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Tedebearduff wrote: »ktilton70130 wrote: »okay, I am thinking of trying something for a week, no meat. Do anyone have any pointers? I like trying different things to see how my body will react.Thanks in advance.
Everyone is doing this right now, I've had 4-5 people in my office ask me about it. Another person swearing by it... a newly turned vegetarian ... I wonder what is the catalyst for all of this? for you? why the choice to go meat free?
I can not speak for others however I just wanted to give it a try. I have seen a number of vegans lose a substantial amount of weight in a short period of time. So I want to give it a try just to attempt to drop weight faster. I am currently losing 1lb a week. I've lost 40lbs since Feb 16. I just try different things to see what works. I'm only trying it for a week or two if I can hang in there.
I hope I answered your question.
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billglitch wrote: »why?
See the response above I answered your question.0 -
littlechiaseed wrote: »JustinAnimal wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »If you get in all you need, and you've already been eating all you need, or if you are deficient, and still will be deficient, your body won't react any differently. You may miss meat though. Or maybe you won't.
I suggest getting in a wide variety and combos of grains and pulses, oils, nuts and seeds, fruit and vegetables, and dairy, fish, seafood, eggs if you are going to eat that.
What plant does fish come from?
To be fair, there are plenty of people who don't consider fish a "meat," even though it is the flesh of an animal. When you go to weddings or catered events, people often ask if you want meat or fish. My "vegetarian" wife gets her protein from dairy, legumes, eggs and fish; by most people's definitions, that's not vegetarian. However, we don't truly sweat it, because most "vegetarians" we meet indulge in the occasional (four times a month) cheeseburger. We could say my wife doesn't eat red meat, but that wouldn't include poultry; we could say she's an ovapescatarian, but we don't truly enjoy being that kind of obnoxious; we could debate this stuff all day long, but at the end of the day, are you helping the OP or picking fights over semantics?
OP, what is your goal here? To find foods that taste or feel meaty, so you won't miss the meat, or to find alternate ways of getting protein without meat?
1. If you want to replace the taste / texture: mushrooms, rice, beans, olives, lentils, things seasoned with salty / savory things like soy sauce or worcestershire. We'll sometimes marinate tofu in equal parts soy sauce, rice vinegar, and sesame oil (maybe some sesame seeds and red pepper flakes for good measure).
2. If you want alternate protein: dairy (especially cottage cheese and Greek yogurt, IMO), rice, quinoa, beans, chia seeds, lentils, TONS OF EGGS AND SEAFOOD (unless this violates your definition of meat), nuts
It's not picking fights, it's correcting an mistake. I constantly get asked if I eat fish when I say I'm vegetarian because so many people go around saying they are 'vegetarian' when they aren't. The correct term is pescartian and for people that say they are 'vegetarian' but eat a burger four times a month or still eat chicken sometimes, they aren't vegetarian at all.
Did the OP state she wanted to go vegetarian? She said she wanted to give up "meat". There are plenty of people who don't consider fish a "meat" and usually only refer to meat as mammals.
And yet the fact remains that all those people who eat fish but give up meat are still factually wrong. Fish is meat. How is this even a question up for debate.
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My fiancé and I are actually going the vegan route right now, and honestly? It has been way easier than I ever thought. They have super delicious meat substitutes out there, and the right recipes (our go-to is a stir fry with tofu) have so much flavor you don't even think about not having meat involved. Best of luck. You got this!1
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rldeclercq4 wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »JustinAnimal wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »If you get in all you need, and you've already been eating all you need, or if you are deficient, and still will be deficient, your body won't react any differently. You may miss meat though. Or maybe you won't.
I suggest getting in a wide variety and combos of grains and pulses, oils, nuts and seeds, fruit and vegetables, and dairy, fish, seafood, eggs if you are going to eat that.
What plant does fish come from?
To be fair, there are plenty of people who don't consider fish a "meat," even though it is the flesh of an animal. When you go to weddings or catered events, people often ask if you want meat or fish. My "vegetarian" wife gets her protein from dairy, legumes, eggs and fish; by most people's definitions, that's not vegetarian. However, we don't truly sweat it, because most "vegetarians" we meet indulge in the occasional (four times a month) cheeseburger. We could say my wife doesn't eat red meat, but that wouldn't include poultry; we could say she's an ovapescatarian, but we don't truly enjoy being that kind of obnoxious; we could debate this stuff all day long, but at the end of the day, are you helping the OP or picking fights over semantics?
OP, what is your goal here? To find foods that taste or feel meaty, so you won't miss the meat, or to find alternate ways of getting protein without meat?
1. If you want to replace the taste / texture: mushrooms, rice, beans, olives, lentils, things seasoned with salty / savory things like soy sauce or worcestershire. We'll sometimes marinate tofu in equal parts soy sauce, rice vinegar, and sesame oil (maybe some sesame seeds and red pepper flakes for good measure).
2. If you want alternate protein: dairy (especially cottage cheese and Greek yogurt, IMO), rice, quinoa, beans, chia seeds, lentils, TONS OF EGGS AND SEAFOOD (unless this violates your definition of meat), nuts
It's not picking fights, it's correcting an mistake. I constantly get asked if I eat fish when I say I'm vegetarian because so many people go around saying they are 'vegetarian' when they aren't. The correct term is pescartian and for people that say they are 'vegetarian' but eat a burger four times a month or still eat chicken sometimes, they aren't vegetarian at all.
Did the OP state she wanted to go vegetarian? She said she wanted to give up "meat". There are plenty of people who don't consider fish a "meat" and usually only refer to meat as mammals.
And yet the fact remains that all those people who eat fish but give up meat are still factually wrong. Fish is meat. How is this even a question up for debate.
In the catholic religion, meat is defined as animal flesh from land. Therefore, fish is not considered meat and can be consumed on days where "meat" is not allowed. This has been a tradition for centuries. If someone were following the religious definition, I can see them thinking fish wasn't meat.0 -
I'd just eat chicken. It's the vegetable of the animal kingdom. Tastes just like like broccoli . . .2
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Eat plenty of eggs for protein. Small amounts of nuts and cheese, too.
I will NOT get involved in vegan drama. I put people on ignore who rant about that.1 -
Consider eating less meat. That is often easier than removing it all together. And if you'd like to torch some fat, consider more exercise. Particularly HIIT style. I'm doing a Couch to 5K program where I walk for a minute or two then run for a minute or two.1
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FYI. 1 cup of lentils has the same amount of protein as 3 eggs and about = in kcal. But no saturated fat or cholesterol. That's just some of the benefits.1
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ktilton70130 wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »If you get in all you need, and you've already been eating all you need, or if you are deficient, and still will be deficient, your body won't react any differently. You may miss meat though. Or maybe you won't.
I suggest getting in a wide variety and combos of grains and pulses, oils, nuts and seeds, fruit and vegetables, and dairy, fish, seafood, eggs if you are going to eat that.
I stay in a deficit I make sure of that. I measure and count everything I put in my mouth. No liquid calories only water and herbal tea. I just wanted to try something different due to the fact that I am losing a lb a week and I want to know if perhaps I will drop more without consuming meat. I see many vegans that lose a substantial amount of weight in a short period of time so I figured I will try it out. If it works for one week I will try it again.
I like trying new things just to see what works for me. I began in Feb '16 and I have lost 40lbs. I feel perhaps I could have done better.
Thank you for your feedback appreciate it.
You've lost 40lb already....1lb a week isn't too shabby at all and neither is 40lb in six months. Don't underestimate what you've achieved so far.2 -
littlechiaseed wrote: »Well if you cut out meat the idea is that you replace that with another food like something else with protein like tofu, seitan, beans, ect.
With all due respect, that's your idea. It's not everybody's idea. Some people cut out meat and replace it with poultry, seafood, eggs, and/or dairy, and some people just replace it with French fries and veggie pizza.
Traditionally, animal flesh is divided into meat, fish, or fowl (or meat, poultry, or seafood if you prefer).
andlittlechiaseed wrote: »It's not picking fights, it's correcting an mistake. I constantly get asked if I eat fish when I say I'm vegetarian because so many people go around saying they are 'vegetarian' when they aren't. The correct term is pescartian and for people that say they are 'vegetarian' but eat a burger four times a month or still eat chicken sometimes, they aren't vegetarian at all.
What "mistake"?
I do sympathize with the problems actual vegetarians encounter when they go to restaurants or other people's homes because other people are confused about what vegetarian means because some people call themselves vegetarian and then eat fish, chicken, bacon, etc.
But the OP didn't say she wanted to go vegetarian for a week. She said she wanted to go without meat for a week. It would be nice if she came back and clarified in what sense she is using the word meat (traditional "not from a mammal" or the more inclusive "not from any kind of animal").
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lemurcat12 wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »JustinAnimal wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »If you get in all you need, and you've already been eating all you need, or if you are deficient, and still will be deficient, your body won't react any differently. You may miss meat though. Or maybe you won't.
I suggest getting in a wide variety and combos of grains and pulses, oils, nuts and seeds, fruit and vegetables, and dairy, fish, seafood, eggs if you are going to eat that.
What plant does fish come from?
To be fair, there are plenty of people who don't consider fish a "meat," even though it is the flesh of an animal. When you go to weddings or catered events, people often ask if you want meat or fish. My "vegetarian" wife gets her protein from dairy, legumes, eggs and fish; by most people's definitions, that's not vegetarian. However, we don't truly sweat it, because most "vegetarians" we meet indulge in the occasional (four times a month) cheeseburger. We could say my wife doesn't eat red meat, but that wouldn't include poultry; we could say she's an ovapescatarian, but we don't truly enjoy being that kind of obnoxious; we could debate this stuff all day long, but at the end of the day, are you helping the OP or picking fights over semantics?
OP, what is your goal here? To find foods that taste or feel meaty, so you won't miss the meat, or to find alternate ways of getting protein without meat?
1. If you want to replace the taste / texture: mushrooms, rice, beans, olives, lentils, things seasoned with salty / savory things like soy sauce or worcestershire. We'll sometimes marinate tofu in equal parts soy sauce, rice vinegar, and sesame oil (maybe some sesame seeds and red pepper flakes for good measure).
2. If you want alternate protein: dairy (especially cottage cheese and Greek yogurt, IMO), rice, quinoa, beans, chia seeds, lentils, TONS OF EGGS AND SEAFOOD (unless this violates your definition of meat), nuts
It's not picking fights, it's correcting an mistake. I constantly get asked if I eat fish when I say I'm vegetarian because so many people go around saying they are 'vegetarian' when they aren't. The correct term is pescartian and for people that say they are 'vegetarian' but eat a burger four times a month or still eat chicken sometimes, they aren't vegetarian at all.
Or they are mostly or usually vegetarian. But yeah, I agree with you.
I don't know any vegetarians who eat meat multiple times a month, though -- I used to know one who ate meat on rare occasional, like Thanksgiving, she called it her "holiday exception" but then she phased that out entirely. I also don't know anyone who finds the term pescetarian obnoxious, however. I do always feel like I have to clarify that I am including fish too when I say meat (which is slightly awkward).
(I suspect the reason some claim (incorrectly) that eating fish is "vegetarian" is because it counts as "meatless" for the Catholic Church and given history that probably defined for some (not just Catholics) what "meatless" is. But in Latin and many Latin-derived languages "meatless" or without meat uses the term "carne" (or the like) which I believe is distinct from the word used for fish. In English that's not the case (meat includes fish), or at least I never understand it as such unless the person is referring to certain religious practices, of course.)
Anyway, I'm assuming OP means to not eat fish/shellfish for the week, but if not, OP, those are great sources of protein!
I agree that vegetarian means no animal flesh of any kind, and it's a shame that frequent misuse of the term forces real vegetarians to have to list all the different kinds of animals they don't eat.
However, I disagree that in English meat (always) includes fish. In many cases it stands in opposition to fish.
That is, one way the word meat is used (at least in recent years) in English includes fish, but there are other long-standing uses (I would argue longer-standing, but I don't happened to have an OED handy to back it up) that excludes fish. You can designate fish or fowl (or poultry) with a single word. A word is needed to designate the flesh of mammals, and that word is meat.
Look at old cookbooks, which have separate sections for meat, fish, and poultry. Multi-course meals eaten in the homes of the well-to-do traditionally had separate meat and fish courses. The American Heart Association's recommendations treat meat, poultry, and fish as mutually exclusive categories (http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/HealthyLiving/HealthyEating/Meat-Poultry-and-Fish_UCM_306002_Article.jsp#.V7gJC2xTFPY)
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »Well if you cut out meat the idea is that you replace that with another food like something else with protein like tofu, seitan, beans, ect.
With all due respect, that's your idea. It's not everybody's idea. Some people cut out meat and replace it with poultry, seafood, eggs, and/or dairy, and some people just replace it with French fries and veggie pizza.
Traditionally, animal flesh is divided into meat, fish, or fowl (or meat, poultry, or seafood if you prefer).
andlittlechiaseed wrote: »It's not picking fights, it's correcting an mistake. I constantly get asked if I eat fish when I say I'm vegetarian because so many people go around saying they are 'vegetarian' when they aren't. The correct term is pescartian and for people that say they are 'vegetarian' but eat a burger four times a month or still eat chicken sometimes, they aren't vegetarian at all.
What "mistake"?
I do sympathize with the problems actual vegetarians encounter when they go to restaurants or other people's homes because other people are confused about what vegetarian means because some people call themselves vegetarian and then eat fish, chicken, bacon, etc.
But the OP didn't say she wanted to go vegetarian for a week. She said she wanted to go without meat for a week. It would be nice if she came back and clarified in what sense she is using the word meat (traditional "not from a mammal" or the more inclusive "not from any kind of animal").
I am considering meat animal flesh as it is by definition. Is meat not animal flesh? Do fish not have meat on their bones? Or chickens? Turkeys? Ect.
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littlechiaseed wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »Well if you cut out meat the idea is that you replace that with another food like something else with protein like tofu, seitan, beans, ect.
With all due respect, that's your idea. It's not everybody's idea. Some people cut out meat and replace it with poultry, seafood, eggs, and/or dairy, and some people just replace it with French fries and veggie pizza.
Traditionally, animal flesh is divided into meat, fish, or fowl (or meat, poultry, or seafood if you prefer).
andlittlechiaseed wrote: »It's not picking fights, it's correcting an mistake. I constantly get asked if I eat fish when I say I'm vegetarian because so many people go around saying they are 'vegetarian' when they aren't. The correct term is pescartian and for people that say they are 'vegetarian' but eat a burger four times a month or still eat chicken sometimes, they aren't vegetarian at all.
What "mistake"?
I do sympathize with the problems actual vegetarians encounter when they go to restaurants or other people's homes because other people are confused about what vegetarian means because some people call themselves vegetarian and then eat fish, chicken, bacon, etc.
But the OP didn't say she wanted to go vegetarian for a week. She said she wanted to go without meat for a week. It would be nice if she came back and clarified in what sense she is using the word meat (traditional "not from a mammal" or the more inclusive "not from any kind of animal").
I am considering meat animal flesh as it is by definition. Is meat not animal flesh? Do fish not have meat on their bones? Or chickens? Turkeys? Ect.
The term "meat" is ambiguous if not vague, and it's been pointed out why. A clarification is necessary.
"When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’
’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all."
Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass.
It also wouldn't hurt to look up "Wittgenstein" and understand that arguing over what "meat" means rather than seeking clarification could take a lifetime . . .0 -
rldeclercq4 wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »JustinAnimal wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »If you get in all you need, and you've already been eating all you need, or if you are deficient, and still will be deficient, your body won't react any differently. You may miss meat though. Or maybe you won't.
I suggest getting in a wide variety and combos of grains and pulses, oils, nuts and seeds, fruit and vegetables, and dairy, fish, seafood, eggs if you are going to eat that.
What plant does fish come from?
To be fair, there are plenty of people who don't consider fish a "meat," even though it is the flesh of an animal. When you go to weddings or catered events, people often ask if you want meat or fish. My "vegetarian" wife gets her protein from dairy, legumes, eggs and fish; by most people's definitions, that's not vegetarian. However, we don't truly sweat it, because most "vegetarians" we meet indulge in the occasional (four times a month) cheeseburger. We could say my wife doesn't eat red meat, but that wouldn't include poultry; we could say she's an ovapescatarian, but we don't truly enjoy being that kind of obnoxious; we could debate this stuff all day long, but at the end of the day, are you helping the OP or picking fights over semantics?
OP, what is your goal here? To find foods that taste or feel meaty, so you won't miss the meat, or to find alternate ways of getting protein without meat?
1. If you want to replace the taste / texture: mushrooms, rice, beans, olives, lentils, things seasoned with salty / savory things like soy sauce or worcestershire. We'll sometimes marinate tofu in equal parts soy sauce, rice vinegar, and sesame oil (maybe some sesame seeds and red pepper flakes for good measure).
2. If you want alternate protein: dairy (especially cottage cheese and Greek yogurt, IMO), rice, quinoa, beans, chia seeds, lentils, TONS OF EGGS AND SEAFOOD (unless this violates your definition of meat), nuts
It's not picking fights, it's correcting an mistake. I constantly get asked if I eat fish when I say I'm vegetarian because so many people go around saying they are 'vegetarian' when they aren't. The correct term is pescartian and for people that say they are 'vegetarian' but eat a burger four times a month or still eat chicken sometimes, they aren't vegetarian at all.
Did the OP state she wanted to go vegetarian? She said she wanted to give up "meat". There are plenty of people who don't consider fish a "meat" and usually only refer to meat as mammals.
And yet the fact remains that all those people who eat fish but give up meat are still factually wrong. Fish is meat. How is this even a question up for debate.
I don't think it's really "debatable," but I gave the reason above -- Latin.0 -
rldeclercq4 wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »JustinAnimal wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »If you get in all you need, and you've already been eating all you need, or if you are deficient, and still will be deficient, your body won't react any differently. You may miss meat though. Or maybe you won't.
I suggest getting in a wide variety and combos of grains and pulses, oils, nuts and seeds, fruit and vegetables, and dairy, fish, seafood, eggs if you are going to eat that.
What plant does fish come from?
To be fair, there are plenty of people who don't consider fish a "meat," even though it is the flesh of an animal. When you go to weddings or catered events, people often ask if you want meat or fish. My "vegetarian" wife gets her protein from dairy, legumes, eggs and fish; by most people's definitions, that's not vegetarian. However, we don't truly sweat it, because most "vegetarians" we meet indulge in the occasional (four times a month) cheeseburger. We could say my wife doesn't eat red meat, but that wouldn't include poultry; we could say she's an ovapescatarian, but we don't truly enjoy being that kind of obnoxious; we could debate this stuff all day long, but at the end of the day, are you helping the OP or picking fights over semantics?
OP, what is your goal here? To find foods that taste or feel meaty, so you won't miss the meat, or to find alternate ways of getting protein without meat?
1. If you want to replace the taste / texture: mushrooms, rice, beans, olives, lentils, things seasoned with salty / savory things like soy sauce or worcestershire. We'll sometimes marinate tofu in equal parts soy sauce, rice vinegar, and sesame oil (maybe some sesame seeds and red pepper flakes for good measure).
2. If you want alternate protein: dairy (especially cottage cheese and Greek yogurt, IMO), rice, quinoa, beans, chia seeds, lentils, TONS OF EGGS AND SEAFOOD (unless this violates your definition of meat), nuts
It's not picking fights, it's correcting an mistake. I constantly get asked if I eat fish when I say I'm vegetarian because so many people go around saying they are 'vegetarian' when they aren't. The correct term is pescartian and for people that say they are 'vegetarian' but eat a burger four times a month or still eat chicken sometimes, they aren't vegetarian at all.
Did the OP state she wanted to go vegetarian? She said she wanted to give up "meat". There are plenty of people who don't consider fish a "meat" and usually only refer to meat as mammals.
And yet the fact remains that all those people who eat fish but give up meat are still factually wrong. Fish is meat. How is this even a question up for debate.
In the catholic religion, meat is defined as animal flesh from land. Therefore, fish is not considered meat and can be consumed on days where "meat" is not allowed. This has been a tradition for centuries. If someone were following the religious definition, I can see them thinking fish wasn't meat.
To clarify this, is not that the Catholic Church claims that fish are not animals (which is related to how "meat" is normally, not always, understood in English). It's that the religious prohibitions applied to "carnis" which does not include fish, as I understand it (and certainly the most common religious prohibitions that people think of do not).0 -
ktilton70130 wrote: »Tedebearduff wrote: »ktilton70130 wrote: »okay, I am thinking of trying something for a week, no meat. Do anyone have any pointers? I like trying different things to see how my body will react.Thanks in advance.
Everyone is doing this right now, I've had 4-5 people in my office ask me about it. Another person swearing by it... a newly turned vegetarian ... I wonder what is the catalyst for all of this? for you? why the choice to go meat free?
I can not speak for others however I just wanted to give it a try. I have seen a number of vegans lose a substantial amount of weight in a short period of time. So I want to give it a try just to attempt to drop weight faster. I am currently losing 1lb a week. I've lost 40lbs since Feb 16. I just try different things to see what works. I'm only trying it for a week or two if I can hang in there.
I hope I answered your question.
I have seen plenty of overweight vegans and vegetarians.1 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »JustinAnimal wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »If you get in all you need, and you've already been eating all you need, or if you are deficient, and still will be deficient, your body won't react any differently. You may miss meat though. Or maybe you won't.
I suggest getting in a wide variety and combos of grains and pulses, oils, nuts and seeds, fruit and vegetables, and dairy, fish, seafood, eggs if you are going to eat that.
What plant does fish come from?
To be fair, there are plenty of people who don't consider fish a "meat," even though it is the flesh of an animal. When you go to weddings or catered events, people often ask if you want meat or fish. My "vegetarian" wife gets her protein from dairy, legumes, eggs and fish; by most people's definitions, that's not vegetarian. However, we don't truly sweat it, because most "vegetarians" we meet indulge in the occasional (four times a month) cheeseburger. We could say my wife doesn't eat red meat, but that wouldn't include poultry; we could say she's an ovapescatarian, but we don't truly enjoy being that kind of obnoxious; we could debate this stuff all day long, but at the end of the day, are you helping the OP or picking fights over semantics?
OP, what is your goal here? To find foods that taste or feel meaty, so you won't miss the meat, or to find alternate ways of getting protein without meat?
1. If you want to replace the taste / texture: mushrooms, rice, beans, olives, lentils, things seasoned with salty / savory things like soy sauce or worcestershire. We'll sometimes marinate tofu in equal parts soy sauce, rice vinegar, and sesame oil (maybe some sesame seeds and red pepper flakes for good measure).
2. If you want alternate protein: dairy (especially cottage cheese and Greek yogurt, IMO), rice, quinoa, beans, chia seeds, lentils, TONS OF EGGS AND SEAFOOD (unless this violates your definition of meat), nuts
It's not picking fights, it's correcting an mistake. I constantly get asked if I eat fish when I say I'm vegetarian because so many people go around saying they are 'vegetarian' when they aren't. The correct term is pescartian and for people that say they are 'vegetarian' but eat a burger four times a month or still eat chicken sometimes, they aren't vegetarian at all.
Or they are mostly or usually vegetarian. But yeah, I agree with you.
I don't know any vegetarians who eat meat multiple times a month, though -- I used to know one who ate meat on rare occasional, like Thanksgiving, she called it her "holiday exception" but then she phased that out entirely. I also don't know anyone who finds the term pescetarian obnoxious, however. I do always feel like I have to clarify that I am including fish too when I say meat (which is slightly awkward).
(I suspect the reason some claim (incorrectly) that eating fish is "vegetarian" is because it counts as "meatless" for the Catholic Church and given history that probably defined for some (not just Catholics) what "meatless" is. But in Latin and many Latin-derived languages "meatless" or without meat uses the term "carne" (or the like) which I believe is distinct from the word used for fish. In English that's not the case (meat includes fish), or at least I never understand it as such unless the person is referring to certain religious practices, of course.)
Anyway, I'm assuming OP means to not eat fish/shellfish for the week, but if not, OP, those are great sources of protein!
I agree that vegetarian means no animal flesh of any kind, and it's a shame that frequent misuse of the term forces real vegetarians to have to list all the different kinds of animals they don't eat.
However, I disagree that in English meat (always) includes fish. In many cases it stands in opposition to fish.
Interesting. Obviously language changes over time, but in more modern times I find it invariably used to include fish and to mean (flesh of an animal). I checked a popular dictionary and it said "flesh of an animal (especially a mammal)" which kind of supports both of us. I have an OED at work, but I bet it does have both meanings.
One thing is that I find it far less common that people would exclude poultry from meat (although it happens), so I tend to think the fish thing is more from the Catholic Lenten definition (which has nothing to do with the meaning of the word in English) than an understanding that "meat" refers only to mammals.
For me, meat in English OF COURSE includes fish but I am aware of the possibility of confusion enough that I usually do clarify (including meat that is fish, of course). So again, I acknowledge it's not as clear as I suggested.
In English the oldest meaning of "meat" may be just for "food."Look at old cookbooks, which have separate sections for meat, fish, and poultry.
I have a few old cookbooks and they are actually more specific and don't use "meat" as a catch all for mammals, but this would not surprise me and I agree about the separate courses in the fancy dinners, but that came from the French traditional, likely, and French is a Latin-based language.
But yeah, although I think the current meaning of the term is usually "flesh of an animal" I accept that there is some ambiguity and it is always worth asking the person what they mean (which I never argued against, of course).
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I checked a popular dictionary and it said "flesh of an animal (especially a mammal)" which kind of supports both of us.
Just to add to this, I checked my dictionary at home (unabridged Webster's) and it said "the flesh of an animal used for food" and then a variety of other definitions ("the edible part of anything") none of which suggest a differentiation from fish. This is consistent with my general sense of how the English word is most often used, but like I said above, I agree there's some degree of ambiguity and clarification is helpful (or context).0
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