Metabolic Adaptation Plan

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  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,401 MFP Moderator
    edited August 2016
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    Sued0nim wrote: »
    Also I thought the concept of refeed required at least a couple of weeks at maintenance to replenish depleted leptin

    From my research, 2 weeks is approximately the time it would need to get leptin levels back to baseline, but once you go into an energy deficit, leptin would drop again. I am not sure this would prevent that, but if it works, then more power.

    I do know a lot of people who save calories for one day as a means to keep their sanity or realize they tend to go out with friends. If it helps you sustain an overall deficit, I would suggest it's a good plan to sustain.
  • AnabolicMind2011
    AnabolicMind2011 Posts: 211 Member
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    Too much bro science wrapped in with it so not worth my time reading any further.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
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    Russellb97 wrote: »
    The emphasis of the refeed is a macro not calories. Basically I was told you fast from either fats, carbs or protein short-term and then focus refeed on it for a day. I don't practice this, it's just what I've heard.

    What does that mean?

    Why would one refeed a macro? Of course in order to cut calories one necessarily cuts macros cos every calorie is made up of fats, protein and carbs in some combination ....are you saying your refeed targets a specific macro or is it just (which is what I'd expect) "yippee I've got 3000+ calories.... omnomnom"

    Surely in your defecit you consumed adequate protein for cell repair and muscle preservation and fats to aid nutrient absorption?

    Don't get me wrong I think your progress is excellent and your way of eating is certainly close to what many round here do eg monitor defecit across the week. What I don't get is the benefit of the specificity of doubling on one day, beyond diet adherence of course
  • Russellb97
    Russellb97 Posts: 1,057 Member
    edited August 2016
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    psulemon wrote: »
    Sued0nim wrote: »
    Also I thought the concept of refeed required at least a couple of weeks at maintenance to replenish depleted leptin

    From my research, 2 weeks is approximately the time it would need to get leptin levels back to baseline, but once you go into an energy deficit, leptin would drop again. I am not sure this would prevent that, but if it works, then more power.

    I do know a lot of people who save calories for one day as a means to keep their sanity or realize they tend to go out with friends. If it helps you sustain an overall deficit, I would suggest it's a good plan to sustain.

    Actually leptin is far more responsive to overfeeding post-calorie restriction, studies show in as little as 12 hours. And while it will indeed start dropping again when back to calorie restriction it also comes right back up again after the next weekly refeed. This is about long-term weight loss.

    "Leptin levels in fasted subjects returned to baseline within 12 h of refeeding"

    g5nynosq0al5.png


    The effect of a 3-day fast followed by refeeding on plasma leptin levels is shown in Fig. 1. Compliance with the fast was established by decreases in the 0800 h plasma insulin level from 9.9 ± 4.8 to 5.1 ± 2.2 μU/mL (P < 0.0005), the plasma glucose level from 71.1 ± 11.0 to 44.8± 15.6 mg/dL (P < 0.0005), and a qualitative increase in first void urinary ketones from the 1st to the 3rd day of the fast. Leptin levels measured on day 3 of the fast were lower than those measured during the control (P < 0.01) and refeeding (P < 0.02) days at all time points studied, whereas the levels on the control and refeeding days were indistinguishable from each other. - See more at: http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.82.2.3757#sthash.Esedt4Ye.dpuf

    http://press.endocrine.org/doi/full/10.1210/jcem.82.2.3757

    Another one showing baseline at 24 hours;
    (Kolaczynski et al Diabetes 45: 1511-1515, 1996).

    During the first part of this study, researchers found that after 36h of fasting, Leptin decreased by 77% while after 60h of fasting, Leptin decreased by 82%.

    During the second part of the study (the data plotted above), authors found that Leptin decreased by 20% after 12h and 65% after 36h of fasting. However after 12 h of refeeding, Leptin increased to 62% of normal and after 24h refeeding, leptin increased to 100% of normal.

    This data indicates that 12h fasting is sufficient to reduce serum leptin dramatically - this is concomitant with decreased insulin and increased glucagon, cortisol, catecholamines, and GH. They also indicate that a normal single meal has negligible impact on leptin - it takes prolonged feedings to impact Leptin concentrations.
  • Russellb97
    Russellb97 Posts: 1,057 Member
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    I have a theory that energy homeostasis is a switch that follows a circadian rhythm so that day to day energy balance is what triggers metabolic adaptation. It has very little to do with our weight and the amount of fat on our bodies.
    When I was overweight. I was always confused by the reason why I'd ever feel "hungry". When I weighed over 300lbs I literally had months of excess calories stored on my body so why do I feel like I'm starving? Then I learned about ghrelin and leptin and realized that my body isn't tracking stored energy it's tacking day to day energy balance and looking to get me back in energy homeostasis. This is why it's so important to break the cycle of caloric deficits with even just a small surplus. An energy surplus in just one day switches the adaptation off.
    This is why I lost 100lbs in 11 months and not only kept it off for 10+ years, I even lost another 30lbs.
  • Russellb97
    Russellb97 Posts: 1,057 Member
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    Noel_57 wrote: »
    Why an 8 day cycle? Seems more logical to do the higher calorie day every seven days.

    Never mind. I re-read it and I see it is a seven day cycle.

    Sweet, I was worried I made it even more confusing :wink:
  • endlessfall16
    endlessfall16 Posts: 932 Member
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    OP,

    Do you eat more on the days you work out or it's always "6 Days you are around 1,750" (I know it's just an example)?

  • GauchoMark
    GauchoMark Posts: 1,804 Member
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    Noel_57 wrote: »
    What would be the formula for 1700 daily calories?

    6 day calorie goal = (TDEE-deficit)*7/8
    1 day "break" Calorie goal = 2*(6 day calorie goal)

    Is that what you are asking?

    So if your current daily calories are 1700, then you would eat 1700*7/8=1487 calories 6 days a week, then 2975 calories the last day. I would assume that this is NET calories, so eat back your exercise calories.
  • Russellb97
    Russellb97 Posts: 1,057 Member
    edited September 2016
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    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    OP,

    Do you eat more on the days you work out or it's always "6 Days you are around 1,750" (I know it's just an example)?

    I did for the first couple of years but after learning more about glycogen I thought it might be better to have my big lift workout the day after the high calorie day and it definitely is the case for me. I am reps stronger the day after high calories, I feel like a beast. Since then my high calorie day is a total rest day.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
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    Could you work it out for me please, i don't know what */ means. Does no one use ÷ and × anymore?
    I eat 1660 calories a day for a 0.5lb loss per week.
  • lovebirb
    lovebirb Posts: 52 Member
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    Very nice info! Thanks for posting
  • GauchoMark
    GauchoMark Posts: 1,804 Member
    edited September 2016
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    Christine_72 wrote: »
    Could you work it out for me please, i don't know what */ means. Does no one use ÷ and × anymore?
    I eat 1660 calories a day for a 0.5lb loss per week.

    I honestly have no idea how you typed those symbols! * is x and / is divide
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
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    GauchoMark wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    Could you work it out for me please, i don't know what */ means. Does no one use ÷ and × anymore?
    I eat 1660 calories a day for a 0.5lb loss per week.

    I honestly have no idea how you typed those symbols! * is x and / is divide

    I thought so, but wasnt sure. Thanks :smile:

  • Russellb97
    Russellb97 Posts: 1,057 Member
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    lovebirb wrote: »
    Very nice info! Thanks for posting

    It's my pleasure, Thank you :smile:

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