About Love. And all that stuff.
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My all time favorite quote from a movie about love, and it is so fitting for my life and I think many of us:
"People call these things imperfections, but they're not, aw that's the good stuff. And then we get to choose who we let in to our weird little worlds. You're not perfect, sport. And let me save you in suspense. This girl you met, she isn't perfect either. But the question is: whether or not you're perfect for each other. That's the whole deal. That's what it's about."
- Good Will Hunting
That's a great quote
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »@DetroitDarin , I think you are single. I await with bated breath your advice on parenting.
I know a lot about parenting too! And i'm pretty good at it. I have the coffee mug to prove it.
Why do you think i am single? Why would it matter?
Is it because so many people in relationships pick terrible partners but want credit for having the guts to put up with bad relationships? :-)0 -
DetroitDarin wrote: »Love therefore should be stupidly-easy and should be the baseline for a successful relationship.DetroitDarin wrote: »I think the best relationships - nobody has to compromise anything because we naturally love exactly what the other person offers.DetroitDarin wrote: »I think love is like this -
When love exists between a man and woman both parties will absolutely unconsciously do good towards and for the other person. People will act and communicate and all that without even thinking because doing those things is at the core of their very being. It's who they are - not what they do. But what they do and express is the result of who they are. Make any sense?
I don't think it's so simple. Loving someone might be easy, but living with someone and creating and maintaining a successful relationship isn't automatic just because real love is there. Loving someone doesn't mean you don't have to work for it and at it.0 -
Here is an article I've recently found. I keep reading it over and over again since my heart has been recently broken. I think it's a really good article and may help some people figure things out.
http://www.upworthy.com/3-things-to-watch-out-for-when-youre-trying-to-pick-the-right-life-partner2 -
distinctlybeautiful wrote: »DetroitDarin wrote: »Love therefore should be stupidly-easy and should be the baseline for a successful relationship.DetroitDarin wrote: »I think the best relationships - nobody has to compromise anything because we naturally love exactly what the other person offers.DetroitDarin wrote: »I think love is like this -
When love exists between a man and woman both parties will absolutely unconsciously do good towards and for the other person. People will act and communicate and all that without even thinking because doing those things is at the core of their very being. It's who they are - not what they do. But what they do and express is the result of who they are. Make any sense?
I don't think it's so simple. Loving someone might be easy, but living with someone and creating and maintaining a successful relationship isn't automatic just because real love is there. Loving someone doesn't mean you don't have to work for it and at it.
Right. Anyone you love will get on your nerves as times (kids, parents, spouse). To expect it to be a bed of roses is setting yourself up for failure1 -
It does make sense! The thing is, I dont know if he truly understands that affection is a NEED for me...not a want or 'nice to have'. Its not a NEED for him. I try to be conscious of his needs, and meet them whenever its possible....I ask him regularly what else I can do to make him happy....ultimately I love him, and I want him to be happy.
But I deserve to be happy too....and when he asks me (for example since i just had a bday) what I want for my birthday and without thinking I blurt out "at least 5 minutes of non sexual attention each day".... well...that doesnt strike me as something a happy wife would say.
Reading your replies, I can totally relate. There must be a name for it...this inability to show or a need for intimacy. I am recently divorced and happiest I have been in 7 years. He loved sex and was very attracted to me but, hated non sexual physical touch. He thought hugs and kisses were foreplay. So, I told him...when he starts giving me random hugs without being asked or prompted, I would have sex with him. I felt completely unloved, and just a hole for his needs, which isn't a turn on. He couldn't do it. After the first week without sex, he was raging mad. When I asked him if he had hugged me this week, his reply.....well you didn't hug me first. Sigh
He couldn't hug me...not a hello hug, or goodbye hug....or sorry your childhood dog died hug. Then after 8 months without sex....or any touching at all, he had an affair. LOL I guess she didn't require a hug first. So...now we are divorced. I am glad he did cheat, I'm NOT the victim, I completely "get it". I think we were both looking for a way out.
So now, I will focus on myself and it may sound selfish....but I am loving it.6 -
distinctlybeautiful wrote: »DetroitDarin wrote: »Love therefore should be stupidly-easy and should be the baseline for a successful relationship.DetroitDarin wrote: »I think the best relationships - nobody has to compromise anything because we naturally love exactly what the other person offers.DetroitDarin wrote: »I think love is like this -
When love exists between a man and woman both parties will absolutely unconsciously do good towards and for the other person. People will act and communicate and all that without even thinking because doing those things is at the core of their very being. It's who they are - not what they do. But what they do and express is the result of who they are. Make any sense?
I don't think it's so simple. Loving someone might be easy, but living with someone and creating and maintaining a successful relationship isn't automatic just because real love is there. Loving someone doesn't mean you don't have to work for it and at it.
I totally agree. It should come naturally if you both are 1000% compatible on every level. Both have to give 100% all the time...and thats hard. That's why there are compromises. Before getting into a committed relationship you have to figure out what your non-negotiables are and then both compromise and make sacrifices.0 -
stylistchicky wrote: »It does make sense! The thing is, I dont know if he truly understands that affection is a NEED for me...not a want or 'nice to have'. Its not a NEED for him. I try to be conscious of his needs, and meet them whenever its possible....I ask him regularly what else I can do to make him happy....ultimately I love him, and I want him to be happy.
But I deserve to be happy too....and when he asks me (for example since i just had a bday) what I want for my birthday and without thinking I blurt out "at least 5 minutes of non sexual attention each day".... well...that doesnt strike me as something a happy wife would say.
Reading your replies, I can totally relate. There must be a name for it...this inability to show or a need for intimacy. I am recently divorced and happiest I have been in 7 years. He loved sex and was very attracted to me but, hated non sexual physical touch. He thought hugs and kisses were foreplay. So, I told him...when he starts giving me random hugs without being asked or prompted, I would have sex with him. I felt completely unloved, and just a hole for his needs, which isn't a turn on. He couldn't do it. After the first week without sex, he was raging mad. When I asked him if he had hugged me this week, his reply.....well you didn't hug me first. Sigh
He couldn't hug me...not a hello hug, or goodbye hug....or sorry your childhood dog died hug. Then after 8 months without sex....or any touching at all, he had an affair. LOL I guess she didn't require a hug first. So...now we are divorced. I am glad he did cheat, I'm NOT the victim, I completely "get it". I think we were both looking for a way out.
So now, I will focus on myself and it may sound selfish....but I am loving it.
I think the same thing happened in my first marriage. He always wanted to hug and I didn't. He used to want to snuggle in bed and I like to be left alone in bed (apart from sex, really). I like my space! So there is probably sonething in this.
I'm glad you have moved on and are enjoying your new found freedom!
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distinctlybeautiful wrote: »DetroitDarin wrote: »Love therefore should be stupidly-easy and should be the baseline for a successful relationship.DetroitDarin wrote: »I think the best relationships - nobody has to compromise anything because we naturally love exactly what the other person offers.DetroitDarin wrote: »I think love is like this -
When love exists between a man and woman both parties will absolutely unconsciously do good towards and for the other person. People will act and communicate and all that without even thinking because doing those things is at the core of their very being. It's who they are - not what they do. But what they do and express is the result of who they are. Make any sense?
I don't think it's so simple. Loving someone might be easy, but living with someone and creating and maintaining a successful relationship isn't automatic just because real love is there. Loving someone doesn't mean you don't have to work for it and at it.
I think it's impossible to work at the 'love'. I think it's almost impossible to learn to feel things. We can learn to find ways to express how we feel. We can learn to be more-open and more-giving of ourselves...but Love from the heart sorta just happens. Thus I think Love should take NO work in that regard. That belief of mine also manifests in my views regarding "lets be friends FIRST, then lovers" as being a sure-fire way to doom a relationship to failure. The rest of life? Things like learning to show kindness and thoughtfulness? yeah. Can be a pain in the butt when folks refuse to learn those critical elements.0 -
DetroitDarin wrote: »distinctlybeautiful wrote: »DetroitDarin wrote: »Love therefore should be stupidly-easy and should be the baseline for a successful relationship.DetroitDarin wrote: »I think the best relationships - nobody has to compromise anything because we naturally love exactly what the other person offers.DetroitDarin wrote: »I think love is like this -
When love exists between a man and woman both parties will absolutely unconsciously do good towards and for the other person. People will act and communicate and all that without even thinking because doing those things is at the core of their very being. It's who they are - not what they do. But what they do and express is the result of who they are. Make any sense?
I don't think it's so simple. Loving someone might be easy, but living with someone and creating and maintaining a successful relationship isn't automatic just because real love is there. Loving someone doesn't mean you don't have to work for it and at it.
I think it's impossible to work at the 'love'. I think it's almost impossible to learn to feel things. We can learn to find ways to express how we feel. We can learn to be more-open and more-giving of ourselves...but Love from the heart sorta just happens. Thus I think Love should take NO work in that regard. That belief of mine also manifests in my views regarding "lets be friends FIRST, then lovers" as being a sure-fire way to doom a relationship to failure. The rest of life? Things like learning to show kindness and thoughtfulness? yeah. Can be a pain in the butt when folks refuse to learn those critical elements.
Not true for me. I met my husband when I was 18. I wasn't ready to get married. And I had a very abusive childhood. I needed to fully gain trust. I needed to do stuff and have experiences and make mistakes. When I saw my husband the first thing I thought was, "I am going to marry that man someday". Next time I saw him we danced all night and stayed up and talked all night. I said I wanted to be friends first. And during our two year friendship he fully gained my trust, and my love. And I saw how much he loved me and respected me. I learned for the first time what love even was and what real love meant. And we have 20 years of deep friendship. 18 years since we first said we loved each other. He has a deeply trusted place in my life. I feel safest with him. We have shared memories to laugh and smile about. So many amazing memories and experiences and still continually more. He has been with me through so many things and through some of the most difficult things I have ever had to do and injuries. Good times and my support in challenging times. Our friendship is the foundation of our fun relationship that is built on trust, respect, love. But, we were young. So, I think it's different for older people that meet. We had growing to do.3 -
I choose to never have 'friendship' be the foundation because I want more-than-friendship. I view it as 'the honeymoon phase' builds the foundation of support and love and desire that can carry a relationship when they don't even like eachother. And also I am afraid of regression towards the mean.
When in conflict or when stressed I believe people become who they really are - relationships become what they are at their core. Thus, as time progresses or as fights happen relationships based on friendship become more and more like a friend-relationship and less like a lover-relationship. I am scared that leads towards essentially living as bff's or roommates - and my fear of that is mostly due to my history. I can't prove it. But it's where I am.
You make solid points and have a great perspective and reasoning about your feelings on this. And I'm a little jealous - but a billion-times-more happy for you and your husband. If people find something that sincerely works for them, it's a good thing.1 -
@DetroitDarin you think too much
lol.. 4 -
oh no, Jo. honestly this comes easy. This is stream-of-consciousness stuff. 0
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DetroitDarin wrote: »oh no, Jo. honestly this comes easy. This is stream-of-consciousness stuff.
Maybe instead of analysing and dissecting just go with the emotion...go with a feeling and don't think about the why, where are how lol
Im teasing
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I think you're right though - and that's sorta what I'm saying. It's silly to put work and thought into love because if love is there, it's a no-brainer. It's uncomplicated internally.3
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DetroitDarin wrote: »I choose to never have 'friendship' be the foundation because I want more-than-friendship. I view it as 'the honeymoon phase' builds the foundation of support and love and desire that can carry a relationship when they don't even like eachother. And also I am afraid of regression towards the mean.
When in conflict or when stressed I believe people become who they really are - relationships become what they are at their core. Thus, as time progresses or as fights happen relationships based on friendship become more and more like a friend-relationship and less like a lover-relationship. I am scared that leads towards essentially living as bff's or roommates - and my fear of that is mostly due to my history. I can't prove it. But it's where I am.
You make solid points and have a great perspective and reasoning about your feelings on this. And I'm a little jealous - but a billion-times-more happy for you and your husband. If people find something that sincerely works for them, it's a good thing.
I think a lot of this perspective is how you define "friend" and "lover," and the kind of friendships you have. I don't have a lot of friends, but the ones I do have are close, intimate relationships that it would take world-shattering changes to tear apart. My husband shifting from being one of my casual friends that I knew through work to one of my close friends was what allowed our relationship to be a possibility because the trust and connection became established.
The thing that distinguishes a lover for me is physical touch. I enjoy hugging my friends, and if I'm sad having someone put an arm around my shoulders makes me feel cared for, but I don't cuddle with my friends - that's reserved for my lover. With my husband, the physical contact is frequent and required. If we're watching TV, we're snuggling. We hold hands when we're out shopping. We stop mid-chores to make out. When he travels for work, he tells me how much he wants to hug me and kiss me (as well as telling me he can't wait to be home so we can get it on...but that's a distinctly different thing). My last couple of relationships started to crater when the loopy infatuation wore off and my boyfriend didn't want to be as physically affectionate. Physical touch is THE key to relationship compatibility for me.
My husband did something really frikkin *kitten* about a year after we got married. I almost threw him out. I barely spoke to him for a week because I was so raging mad, but I still hugged him every day. That's day-to-day relationship maintenance for us, that's how I let him know I was still in it. When I was ready to work it through, I talked to him like I talk to my friends: showing respect and value for a person I care about while expressing my hurt, and figuring out together how to rebuild my trust. Friendship is the definitely the foundation, but without the "lover" aspects like physical contact, all I'd have is a slab of concrete instead of a whole house.2 -
DetroitDarin wrote: »I choose to never have 'friendship' be the foundation because I want more-than-friendship. I view it as 'the honeymoon phase' builds the foundation of support and love and desire that can carry a relationship when they don't even like eachother. And also I am afraid of regression towards the mean.
When in conflict or when stressed I believe people become who they really are - relationships become what they are at their core. Thus, as time progresses or as fights happen relationships based on friendship become more and more like a friend-relationship and less like a lover-relationship. I am scared that leads towards essentially living as bff's or roommates - and my fear of that is mostly due to my history. I can't prove it. But it's where I am.
You make solid points and have a great perspective and reasoning about your feelings on this. And I'm a little jealous - but a billion-times-more happy for you and your husband. If people find something that sincerely works for them, it's a good thing.
Ours is definitely a lover relationship. I was just young and wasn't ready. I needed full trust and to learn what love and respect were. I always was attracted to him and I knew he was to me. But, I was in college and very focused on school and learning and growing. I wasn't focused on getting into relationships or looking for that. When I met my husband I just knew he was someone that would always be in my life, we had a lifetime, there was no rush. Our friendship still had an intimate component. And when we first had sex it was the best sex of my life, I knew it was going to last. And we have had and always have a very passionate relationship. That's very important. I agree with others that it doesn't need to be analyzed so much. Just go with the flow of life. Thanks for your nice words.0 -
mskessler89 wrote: »DetroitDarin wrote: »I choose to never have 'friendship' be the foundation because I want more-than-friendship. I view it as 'the honeymoon phase' builds the foundation of support and love and desire that can carry a relationship when they don't even like eachother. And also I am afraid of regression towards the mean.
When in conflict or when stressed I believe people become who they really are - relationships become what they are at their core. Thus, as time progresses or as fights happen relationships based on friendship become more and more like a friend-relationship and less like a lover-relationship. I am scared that leads towards essentially living as bff's or roommates - and my fear of that is mostly due to my history. I can't prove it. But it's where I am.
You make solid points and have a great perspective and reasoning about your feelings on this. And I'm a little jealous - but a billion-times-more happy for you and your husband. If people find something that sincerely works for them, it's a good thing.
I think a lot of this perspective is how you define "friend" and "lover," and the kind of friendships you have. I don't have a lot of friends, but the ones I do have are close, intimate relationships that it would take world-shattering changes to tear apart. My husband shifting from being one of my casual friends that I knew through work to one of my close friends was what allowed our relationship to be a possibility because the trust and connection became established.
The thing that distinguishes a lover for me is physical touch. I enjoy hugging my friends, and if I'm sad having someone put an arm around my shoulders makes me feel cared for, but I don't cuddle with my friends - that's reserved for my lover. With my husband, the physical contact is frequent and required. If we're watching TV, we're snuggling. We hold hands when we're out shopping. We stop mid-chores to make out. When he travels for work, he tells me how much he wants to hug me and kiss me (as well as telling me he can't wait to be home so we can get it on...but that's a distinctly different thing). My last couple of relationships started to crater when the loopy infatuation wore off and my boyfriend didn't want to be as physically affectionate. Physical touch is THE key to relationship compatibility for me.
My husband did something really frikkin *kitten* about a year after we got married. I almost threw him out. I barely spoke to him for a week because I was so raging mad, but I still hugged him every day. That's day-to-day relationship maintenance for us, that's how I let him know I was still in it. When I was ready to work it through, I talked to him like I talk to my friends: showing respect and value for a person I care about while expressing my hurt, and figuring out together how to rebuild my trust. Friendship is the definitely the foundation, but without the "lover" aspects like physical contact, all I'd have is a slab of concrete instead of a whole house.
Me too, but I would say "non sexual physical intimacy" is the biggest key, for me personally.2
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