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Immune system plays major role in regulation of body weight
Sabine_Stroehm
Posts: 19,263 Member
in Debate Club
That's the headline. This is the news brief from Trinity College, with a link to the article.
Thoughts?
My own is that it's interesting, but probably quite pre-mature of an announcement as a statement.
I'd love to know what the more science inclined think. I'm still wading through it myself.
http://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/immune-system-plays-major-role-in-regulation-of-body-weight/7135?utm_content=buffer94eef&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Thoughts?
My own is that it's interesting, but probably quite pre-mature of an announcement as a statement.
I'd love to know what the more science inclined think. I'm still wading through it myself.
http://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/immune-system-plays-major-role-in-regulation-of-body-weight/7135?utm_content=buffer94eef&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
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Replies
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This part bothered me a little bit. It comes off as overly simplistic - and I know that's not a fair criticism when somebody is trying to simplify a very complex idea for public consumption:
“We normally think of the immune system as something that guards against infection and diseases. However in evolutionary terms, a sudden or rapid weight loss could be a more immediate threat to survival. This immune system response contributes to why people really struggle to lose weight, despite their best efforts to control calories and do exercise. Our findings give us a much better understanding of why this is so and they illustrate the dynamic role that the immune system plays in regulating body weight,” Professor O'Shea said.
Your immune system guards against things that are sometimes associated with health problems? It can be tricked that easily? I mean, it produces antibodies tailored specifically to whatever illness it's fighting off, but it just says "woah, less fat, some kind of bad thing is happening?" I feel like I'm being talked down to.
“We know that once weight is gained, for the majority of people, it is very difficult to lose that weight. It is too simplistic to say eat less, move more and the weight will come off. It doesn’t actually work like that.”
But what about all the people who've done exactly that?7 -
That last statement also completely ignores people on the other side of the coin: those who have problems keeping on any amount of fat that they may acquire, unless they put effort into doing so.3
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There are plenty of people with autoimmune disorders who have messed up immune systems who aren't obese but I guess we should be?6
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So immune system disorders will be the next snowflake chase?
I despise these media oversimplifications. This sounds like a reaction from a specific immune disorder, but thanks to miscommunication this will be peddled as the next excuse on why you can't lose weight. I can see it now - "It's not your fault...find out why at 11"
There are known inhibitors that influence metabolic pathways; however there are diagnostics available to identify these breakdowns.5 -
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Same with Crohn's and ulcerative colitis (when not on Prednisone)1
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NorthCascades wrote: »This part bothered me a little bit. It comes off as overly simplistic - and I know that's not a fair criticism when somebody is trying to simplify a very complex idea for public consumption:
“We normally think of the immune system as something that guards against infection and diseases. However in evolutionary terms, a sudden or rapid weight loss could be a more immediate threat to survival. This immune system response contributes to why people really struggle to lose weight, despite their best efforts to control calories and do exercise. Our findings give us a much better understanding of why this is so and they illustrate the dynamic role that the immune system plays in regulating body weight,” Professor O'Shea said.
Your immune system guards against things that are sometimes associated with health problems? It can be tricked that easily? I mean, it produces antibodies tailored specifically to whatever illness it's fighting off, but it just says "woah, less fat, some kind of bad thing is happening?" I feel like I'm being talked down to.
“We know that once weight is gained, for the majority of people, it is very difficult to lose that weight. It is too simplistic to say eat less, move more and the weight will come off. It doesn’t actually work like that.”
But what about all the people who've done exactly that?
It's common for these sorts of press releases to oversimplify, so a larger audience can access it, but yeah.
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From my personal experience being overweight my whole life, and recently being diagnosed with Celiac, and trying lots and lots of diets and programs. I always gave up because I would only go down by 5lbs at the most. I am having more success now that I am gluten free and my immune system is working and my white blood cell count is normal. I don't know if it is true for all auto immune disorders.
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singingflutelady wrote: »There are plenty of people with autoimmune disorders who have messed up immune systems who aren't obese but I guess we should be?
Not exactly what the actual paper would say.
It is worth noting, T1D is an autoimmune disease that tends to cause weight loss when untreated.
Right. Good point for T1D and as singing flute lady says for chrohns and colitis (though by different mechanisms). The same for many "wasting" diseases, and some opportunistic infections common among AIDS patients (particularly in the 80s and 90s).
This article makes me think of the gut/brain studies on depression and gut microbes and reminds me how complex the human body is (and how little I really know after all these years).1 -
From my personal experience being overweight my whole life, and recently being diagnosed with Celiac, and trying lots and lots of diets and programs. I always gave up because I would only go down by 5lbs at the most. I am having more success now that I am gluten free and my immune system is working and my white blood cell count is normal. I don't know if it is true for all auto immune disorders.
In a lot of other AI diseases the triggers are unknown. For me avoiding tons of different foods helps but sometimes safe food isn't safe and sometimes water is a trigger. The only thing keeping my immune system down are immunosuppressants and even with those i am not fully in remission. Also with IBD, you tend to weigh less while in flare (for obvious reasons) than in remission except for the dreaded Prednisone2 -
singingflutelady wrote: »There are plenty of people with autoimmune disorders who have messed up immune systems who aren't obese but I guess we should be?
Not exactly what the actual paper would say.
It is worth noting, T1D is an autoimmune disease that tends to cause weight loss when untreated.
Well, yes - any disease that interferes with the body's ability to uptake a macro would do so, whether that interference is in the intestine, like with @singingflutelady's example of Chron's and UC, or whether it is in cellular transport of glucose like with T1D. But that has nothing to do with whether the disease is autoimmune or not. There are a fair number of non-autoimmune diseases that have analogous effects.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »That last statement also completely ignores people on the other side of the coin: those who have problems keeping on any amount of fat that they may acquire, unless they put effort into doing so.
This is a really good point. Years ago I was heavier than I needed to be, it took effort to fix that, luckily my immune system wasn't too much in the way. But even afterwards, I guess it's still affecting me, because this didn't even occur to me. I think you just sunk the battleship of "your immune system wants you fat."1 -
So immune system disorders will be the next snowflake chase?
I despise these media oversimplifications. This sounds like a reaction from a specific immune disorder, but thanks to miscommunication this will be peddled as the next excuse on why you can't lose weight. I can see it now - "It's not your fault...find out why at 11"
There are known inhibitors that influence metabolic pathways; however there are diagnostics available to identify these breakdowns.
I can already tell. After inflammation and gut bacteria this will be the next big excuse next to the evergreen "metabolism".3 -
Another man made medication in the making to help cure obesity, that will cause more harm to others and I see law suits and what not being posted on the TV right now.. If you took x weight loss drug and got x, you may have a case...0
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singingflutelady wrote: »There are plenty of people with autoimmune disorders who have messed up immune systems who aren't obese but I guess we should be?
Not exactly what the actual paper would say.
It is worth noting, T1D is an autoimmune disease that tends to cause weight loss when untreated.
Well, yes - any disease that interferes with the body's ability to uptake a macro would do so, whether that interference is in the intestine, like with @singingflutelady's example of Chron's and UC, or whether it is in cellular transport of glucose like with T1D. But that has nothing to do with whether the disease is autoimmune or not. There are a fair number of non-autoimmune diseases that have analogous effects.
That's exactly my point. Nothing in the paper - to the extent I can view because paywalls - is suggesting autoimmune disease as a generic category of disease is going to affect obesity.
In general, despite what most people think, I'd say diseases tend to decrease the ability to uptake calories or increase calorie expenditure for same activity (though plenty of disease states are going to shoot activity levels down) and would therefore be involved in weight loss, not gain.
Gotcha - I misunderstood.
Agree with most disease states would relate more to weight loss than gain. Otherwise there wouldn't be much concern with being at a low but technically healthy weight and getting ill.0 -
Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »That's the headline. This is the news brief from Trinity College, with a link to the article.
Thoughts?
My own is that it's interesting, but probably quite pre-mature of an announcement as a statement.
I'd love to know what the more science inclined think. I'm still wading through it myself.
http://www.tcd.ie/news_events/articles/immune-system-plays-major-role-in-regulation-of-body-weight/7135?utm_content=buffer94eef&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Since 80% of the immune system resides in the gut sure there must be a connection.0 -
From my personal experience being overweight my whole life, and recently being diagnosed with Celiac, and trying lots and lots of diets and programs. I always gave up because I would only go down by 5lbs at the most. I am having more success now that I am gluten free and my immune system is working and my white blood cell count is normal. I don't know if it is true for all auto immune disorders.
I guess it's different for everyone, even within the same immune disorder. Before I was diagnosed and went gluten free, I was borderline underweight, since I couldn't eat without becoming physically ill. I was able to stop the unintentional weight loss and bump it back up to a healthier place once my system got healthy. I think immune disorders mess with everyone in different ways. Glad you got diagnosed and got your health back in order! It's like night and day for me.
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It is an over simplification but I think there is something to it. I have three autoimmune diseases that I know of. I get flare-ups of these, or another unknown one, sometimes. It is less frquent now but it still happens. I had a flare-up beginning early summer. My hair was falling out, I was tired, getting more headaches and pain, my liver started making too much glucose, and I started gaining weight. I put on 2-3 lbs per month. I wasn't eating huge amounts but I was gaining. I cut back on my food to only two meals per day for a total below 1500 kcal, and I'm working out or walking an hour per day. My weight gain has slowed. That's it.
It's frustrating because 6 months ago I was maintaining well at more that 2000kcal per day. Without exercise. Effortlessly. It's like my body flipped the switch that said you won't feel good now, and as a bonus you'll gain with ease. This isn't new. Just something to be worked around.
Basically, when I feel good it much easier to maintain a healthy weight. It can be done when I'm not at my best, but I do find it harder to do. More effort and fewer calories are required.1 -
I dunno... I have some ailments that may have an autoimmune component but currently are poorly understood. Also, allergies and arthritis. To lose weight I must be very strict and work out HARD, no slacking. Before I got my thyroid meds properly adjusted nothing worked, even a VLCD plus exercise. My body would just slow down more and burn less. People are skeptical about my 1200 calorie diet but honestly if I do not do this there is no weight loss. As it is I only lose at most a pound every 2 or 3 weeks. It's very hard.2
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My mother was always thin. She was diagnosed with Lupus long before anyone had even heard of the disease. They gave her five years to live and got her on massive doses of various meds including prednisone - notorious for causing weight gain. She struggled for a few years to learn about the disease and get it under control and she gained about 50 LBs or so from the meds. Once she was able to manager her disease she went on Weight Watchers (this was back in the 60's / 70's), and successfully lost not only the 50 LBs but several LBs more. Her doctors were astonished because there aren't many people who can successfully lose weight while on that particular med. But she lost the weight simply by calories in / calories out. Aside from a slow walk a few times a week she didn't exercise at all as her disease prevented her from doing so. Every time she tried to walk too much her symptoms would flare up and she'd be sick for days. So with a full blown auto-immune disease and on high doses of prednisone she was able to lose a bunch of weight and maintain her low weight for years and years without much exercise at all. Years ago I had developed arthritis in my hands. I was tested for Lupus a few times and the tests always came back borderline. I don't suffer any of the symptoms of the disease. When I decided to lose weight having an auto immune issue wasn't a factor - in my mind, losing unwanted weight would cure the disease... and it pretty much did after dropping 80 LBs. I maintain my weight with CICO and exercise and often times have a hard time keeping the weight on. I remember having a conversation with my doctor a few years back and he noted that a small percentage of people with auto immune disease tend to lose weight rather than gain in. I don't remember the specifics but I guess there are some, including myself, that fall into that bucket. I think a lot more research needs to be done on the topic.1
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I have mixed feelings about the article and the headline.
I definitely agree that this could lead to the next weight loss excuse for the general public. It may be the next "slow metabolism" and if so we will start seeing all sorts of "immune boosting" supplements, because you know if someone can make money off of it they will promote it and do so. I would be a little happier with the title if they had specified for "people with autoimmune disorders" or something similar. For those without an autoimmune disorder there may be a slight effect, but its probably pretty negligent compared to CICO. I don't have a good study to prove it, just my general observations of the people around me, but I still attest a majority of lack of weight loss to people not trying as hard as they claim, or just being generally misguided with it comes to nutrition and what is "healthy" vs "not".
I would not discount that the immune system probably does play a much larger role in weight loss for people with immune system disorders, but I am not well versed in immune disorders so I can't argue in depth about specifics without alot more research on the subject. The "case" they present really does not discuss medical treatments at all, which as many of posters who have autoimmune diseases already said, have a huge impact on gain/loss in addition to the disorder itself. So it definitely does not really hold water with me without much more detail, but as you already mentioned this was intended to be the cliff notes version.
IMO the research is probably great info for professionals who treat immune disorders to have, and share with patients, but is probably of relatively little value to the general public, whom will probably abuse it anyways. I imagine the author probably realizes all these points, but wants to get more readers so doesn't specify whom the information is more applicable to.1 -
From my personal experience being overweight my whole life, and recently being diagnosed with Celiac, and trying lots and lots of diets and programs. I always gave up because I would only go down by 5lbs at the most. I am having more success now that I am gluten free and my immune system is working and my white blood cell count is normal. I don't know if it is true for all auto immune disorders.
I guess it's different for everyone, even within the same immune disorder. Before I was diagnosed and went gluten free, I was borderline underweight, since I couldn't eat without becoming physically ill. I was able to stop the unintentional weight loss and bump it back up to a healthier place once my system got healthy. I think immune disorders mess with everyone in different ways. Glad you got diagnosed and got your health back in order! It's like night and day for me.
I completely agree! I have a number of family members diagnosed with celiac disease (including myself) and the symptoms and weight fluctuations vary considerably from person to person. I think the immune system does play a role in how a person gains or loses weight, but I'm not sure there's going to be a general rule of thumb that applies to the majority of people.1 -
it looks like they took mice who were deficient in iNKT cells and gave them something to bind to receptor GLP-1 and found that this boosted production of iNKT cells which in turn increased production of FGF-21 which boosted metabolism and conversion of white fat into brown fat...voila, weight loss
for humans who are deficient in iNKT cells, this is probably a great answer, but it seems unlikely to me that iNKT cell deficiency is the only cause of obesity in the human population...plus, it doesn't even try to address WHY there is a deficiency in the first place, if this is a symptom of some other underlying issue, would fixing the underlying issue boost iNKT cell production anyway, assuming you could identify the root cause of the deficiency?2
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