What's the flaw in this regimen? [long plateau]
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I'm going to disagree with the advice you've been given here. If you've been stuck at your weight, you've been eating at maintenance.
I think the niggle with you is your calculation of net calories.
Calculating calorie burns, especially for lifting, is really a tough thing to estimate.
While I wouldn't recommend necessarily dropping your calories for calculation purposes, I'd recommend dropping your intake slightly, especially since you're not getting much cardio (which tends to give you more calories to eat back). Drop your intake just 100 calories a day and see if that gets you moving again.
The idea is that this maintenance you mention is not normal maintenance. The idea is break homeostasis and reset her metabolism back from this new norm she has been at for a while while consuming very low calories.
OP clearly demonstrated her calculated intake through carefully weighing and measuring and eating back some exercise cals.
Going lower than 1000 - 1200 is very bad advice.
She's not eating lower than 1000-1200. Since calculations of exercise calories are merely estimates, I'm ignoring her net calories and going by gross intake. She's eating 1300-1400. I'm advising her to eat 1200-1300.
The breaking homeostasis and metabolism resetting and everything? I know that sounds like it's a very appealing idea, but it just doesn't happen. Bodies don't work that way. That's dieting woo.7 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I'm going to disagree with the advice you've been given here. If you've been stuck at your weight, you've been eating at maintenance.
I think the niggle with you is your calculation of net calories.
Calculating calorie burns, especially for lifting, is really a tough thing to estimate.
While I wouldn't recommend necessarily dropping your calories for calculation purposes, I'd recommend dropping your intake slightly, especially since you're not getting much cardio (which tends to give you more calories to eat back). Drop your intake just 100 calories a day and see if that gets you moving again.
I do weight train quite a bit and freely admit that getting a solid number on the calories burned from that is... tricky. I usually don't bother to track weights anymore, only cardio (whether steady-state or interval), since the numbers from that are a bit more solid.
Probably still going to give recomp a shot for a little while since 2-3 weeks isn't all that long and I won't go crazy with it.
@DebSozo It's pretty low and restrictive but I've adapted (for better and worse, as we can see). I'm going to build myself back to 1600 for a bit. I don't think I have the appetite to manage 1800 - 2000 cal, lmao.
EDIT: Also, I don't think I'm overestimating my burns since I'm not tracking weights. I actually do think my issue is a combination of a garbage metabolism and a lot of inactivity, based on what's being discussed here. Going to the gym almost daily doesn't really negate the fact that I spend every bit of my life outside of it sitting at a computer.
It took me a while. I started out doing 1200-1300 then inched up. Honestly I would gain at 1500-1600 at the beginning. So go very slowly.0 -
Staying my current weight won't be the worst thing in the world, but yes, the ideal endgame is to be pretty darn lean. I still have stubborn deposits of flab on my stomach and hips and it'd be nice for all of that to be almost flat.
I recognize that's the threshold that separates "moderate effort and sensible dieting" from "rigorous training and adherence to diet", I don't love exercise enough to truly be a 'fit girl' but I'd like to look more like that. I don't have trouble with discipline but with clarity of info/direction.
Heck, there are conflicting counts of advice within this very thread (though it's to be expected).0 -
She's eating 1300-1400. I'm advising her to eat 1200-1300.
That's correct and that just made me think of something.
Should I maybe just stop accounting for exercise losses and eat to a hard-defined, non-net calorie limit for a while and see how that works? That sounds like what you're suggesting.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I'm going to disagree with the advice you've been given here. If you've been stuck at your weight, you've been eating at maintenance.
I think the niggle with you is your calculation of net calories.
Calculating calorie burns, especially for lifting, is really a tough thing to estimate.
While I wouldn't recommend necessarily dropping your calories for calculation purposes, I'd recommend dropping your intake slightly, especially since you're not getting much cardio (which tends to give you more calories to eat back). Drop your intake just 100 calories a day and see if that gets you moving again.
I do weight train quite a bit and freely admit that getting a solid number on the calories burned from that is... tricky. I usually don't bother to track weights anymore, only cardio (whether steady-state or interval), since the numbers from that are a bit more solid.
Probably still going to give recomp a shot for a little while since 2-3 weeks isn't all that long and I won't go crazy with it.
@DebSozo It's pretty low and restrictive but I've adapted (for better and worse, as we can see). I'm going to build myself back to 1600 for a bit. I don't think I have the appetite to manage 1800 - 2000 cal, lmao.
EDIT: Also, I don't think I'm overestimating my burns since I'm not tracking weights. I actually do think my issue is a combination of a garbage metabolism and a lot of inactivity, based on what's being discussed here. Going to the gym almost daily doesn't really negate the fact that I spend every bit of my life outside of it sitting at a computer.
I too do the same thing. I am completely sedentary outside of a computer programming job that I actually work from home to do. I lift and cardio as my exercise. I have been doing bulk and cut cycles for a year, but I recomped for 8 months and got frustrated, but my goals were no longer losing weight.
This recomp does not promote huge results in gainz for muscle building. But the recomp or the process (eating maintenance while continuing to lift) is order to get back to the deficit to continue losing weight is the right thing to do if this is your goal (which is what I understand that to be)
Should you consider recomp longer, that's up to you. In 3 - 4 weeks see where you are with how you feel in losing more weight, or doing the recomp for a longer period of time or even consider bulk/cut cycles.
Do not let others sway you in one direction or another. Certainly look up the recomp forums here in MFP..1 -
For me, the best way to get things moving is to MOVE MORE. ALL DAY...when you're not typing at the computer, get up and walk around. Be less efficient with everything, take three steps where you could take one...carry two loads instead of one....etc. You could challenge yourself every day....for example: today, I'm going to try to get up from this desk every hour, and walk to the third floor, then down to the basement, then back up again. There's no point lowering your calories, so more activity will help you to achieve your deficit required to get the weight loss moving again.2
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She's eating 1300-1400. I'm advising her to eat 1200-1300.
That's correct and that just made me think of something.
Should I maybe just stop accounting for exercise losses and eat to a hard-defined, non-net calorie limit for a while and see how that works? That sounds like what you're suggesting.
This is what i ALWAYS do.
But considering you've been at this for months now, it might be a good idea to work your way up (really see how far you can push maintenance) before working your way down again.0 -
So you're advocating that a 5ft 3" individual should be netting below 1000 Cal a day to demonstrate commitment and see things through? Because she is currently doing what? Not demonstrating courage and commitment by trying to fix her metabolically adapted body?GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »My advice to you is to take a diet break, and then reassess your goals. Do you want to weigh less and be really lean? If the answer is yes, the break might give you the push you need to come back with enough commitment to see through sticking to a slightly lower intake. If not, you can always come back from the break and do recomp and stay your current weight.
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She's eating 1300-1400. I'm advising her to eat 1200-1300.
That's correct and that just made me think of something.
Should I maybe just stop accounting for exercise losses and eat to a hard-defined, non-net calorie limit for a while and see how that works? That sounds like what you're suggesting.
This is a good point. But you are expending energy to exercise but this is part of TDEE.
NEAT and EAT are part of your TDEE maintenance.
NEAT - non exercise activity thermogenesis
EAT - exercise thermogenesis0 -
JustMissTracy wrote: »For me, the best way to get things moving is to MOVE MORE. ALL DAY...when you're not typing at the computer, get up and walk around. Be less efficient with everything, take three steps where you could take one...carry two loads instead of one....etc. You could challenge yourself every day....for example: today, I'm going to try to get up from this desk every hour, and walk to the third floor, then down to the basement, then back up again. There's no point lowering your calories, so more activity will help you to achieve your deficit required to get the weight loss moving again.
This is excellent advice. NEAT is neat.1 -
So you're advocating that a 5ft 3" individual should be netting below 1000 Cal a day to demonstrate commitment and see things through? Because she is currently doing what? Not demonstrating courage and commitment by trying to fix her metabolically adapted body?GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »My advice to you is to take a diet break, and then reassess your goals. Do you want to weigh less and be really lean? If the answer is yes, the break might give you the push you need to come back with enough commitment to see through sticking to a slightly lower intake. If not, you can always come back from the break and do recomp and stay your current weight.
She's not metabolically adapted. She's eating at maintenance.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
So you're advocating that a 5ft 3" individual should be netting below 1000 Cal a day to demonstrate commitment and see things through? Because she is currently doing what? Not demonstrating courage and commitment by trying to fix her metabolically adapted body?GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »My advice to you is to take a diet break, and then reassess your goals. Do you want to weigh less and be really lean? If the answer is yes, the break might give you the push you need to come back with enough commitment to see through sticking to a slightly lower intake. If not, you can always come back from the break and do recomp and stay your current weight.
She's not metabolically adapted. She's eating at maintenance.
That maintenance level is too low and needs mending.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
So you're advocating that a 5ft 3" individual should be netting below 1000 Cal a day to demonstrate commitment and see things through? Because she is currently doing what? Not demonstrating courage and commitment by trying to fix her metabolically adapted body?GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »My advice to you is to take a diet break, and then reassess your goals. Do you want to weigh less and be really lean? If the answer is yes, the break might give you the push you need to come back with enough commitment to see through sticking to a slightly lower intake. If not, you can always come back from the break and do recomp and stay your current weight.
She's not metabolically adapted. She's eating at maintenance.
That maintenance level is too low and needs mending.
YES to this!!!!
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Even though it seems awfully low at first glance, I assumed it's just because I'm really small and inactive.1
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I'd agree with upping calories gradually. The fact that you are maintaining now doesn't mean you can't maintain eating more. As you up calories you will, consciously or not, up your non-exercise activity and TEF. I can maintain at 2450 but while cutting I'll get to the point where it takes me getting to 1600 to lose a pound a week, which implies a 2100 maintenance level. TDEEs are not static and cannot always line up with the 3500/lb loss rate.4
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I'm only 5'2, 47 years old....I am still losing eating anywhere from 1500-1900 calories a day (working out at least 5 days a week, and getting lots of movement on rest days). Have lost 80 lbs this way...I was inactive when I started here too, but getting a Fitbit helped me to realize exactly HOW terribly inactive I was, and I've managed to increase my activity level from Sedentary to Lightly Active since Christmas. You can too.1
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I'd agree with upping calories gradually. The fact that you are maintaining now doesn't mean you can't maintain eating more. As you up calories you will, consciously or not, up your non-exercise activity and TEF. I can maintain at 2450 but while cutting I'll get to the point where it takes me getting to 1600 to lose a pound a week, which implies a 2100 maintenance level. TDEEs are not static and cannot always line up with the 3500/lb loss rate.
This matches with my experience.
I was at another prolonged plateau before this. At that time I was eating 1400 a day (compared to my current 1000 - 1200 target). Dropped from 65kg to 61kg and just sat there at 61 forever, until I asked "hey, what am I doing wrong here" and a bunch of bodybuilders said "cut your calories more".
Then I dropped some more and I'm stuck again. So, yeah, whatever my "maintenance" is seems to flux a little bit and it makes pinning down exact numbers and targets difficult.3 -
JustMissTracy wrote: »I'm only 5'2, 47 years old....I am still losing eating anywhere from 1500-1900 calories a day (working out at least 5 days a week, and getting lots of movement on rest days). Have lost 80 lbs this way...I was inactive when I started here too, but getting a Fitbit helped me to realize exactly HOW terribly inactive I was, and I've managed to increase my activity level from Sedentary to Lightly Active since Christmas. You can too.
This is a good idea.
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Even though it seems awfully low at first glance, I assumed it's just because I'm really small and inactive.
That's the rub. You can become more active.
Perhaps think about getting a Fitbit or Garmin with move reminders?
I'm older than you and an inch shorter, so I understand. The calories for us shorties are really low. Moving around as much as possible throughout your day really will help.
A big part of the "metabolic adaptation" that people are referring to in this thread is usually found out to be people who have been at the weight loss game tend to move around less throughout the day when they're not purposefully exercising. So, as an earlier poster suggested, become less efficient in your day. Make a conscientious effort to move around a lot more.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
So you're advocating that a 5ft 3" individual should be netting below 1000 Cal a day to demonstrate commitment and see things through? Because she is currently doing what? Not demonstrating courage and commitment by trying to fix her metabolically adapted body?GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »My advice to you is to take a diet break, and then reassess your goals. Do you want to weigh less and be really lean? If the answer is yes, the break might give you the push you need to come back with enough commitment to see through sticking to a slightly lower intake. If not, you can always come back from the break and do recomp and stay your current weight.
She's not metabolically adapted. She's eating at maintenance.
That maintenance level is too low and needs mending.
The way to do that is through upping her TDEE through activity.
Metabolic adaptation is usually a function of decreased activity (NEAT) in people who've been dieting a very long time. As a consequence of moving more, you can then eat more. Just blithely suggesting someone eat more is only half the advice needed here.2
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