I feel like a drug addict
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lily083087 wrote: »\
Ultimately I'm trying to change my lifestyle here, not just be on a temporary diet. The concept of having to worry about calories every day for the rest of my life feels ominous.
It's not just the road to losing the weight that overwhelms me, I also have to worry about maintenance thereafter. Does the struggle ever end???
What a lot of people miss is the importance of the behavioral component to losing weight -- and more importantly, keeping it off. That's why so many of us cycle through losing and regaining weight multiple times -- and why so many people in the USA at least have been dieting for decades looking for a magic solution, while as a nation we're fatter than ever. Watch the animated map in this article:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2013/04/obesity_in_america_cdc_releases_gif_of_epidemic_over_time.html
A great cognitive approach to weight management is the Beck Diet Solution - Judith Beck is the daughter of Aaron Beck, the guy who invented cognitive behavioral therapy. http://www.beckdietsolution.com
Another approach is intuitive eating, developed by a nutritionist and a therapist who's worked with a lot of folks with eating disorders -- it might be particularly helpful to those who have struggled with eating disorders and need to realign their relationship with food. http://www.intuitiveeating.org
Mindful eating is similar; it focuses on choosing foods and eating them in an engaged and aware fashion, rather than just shoveling it in. http://thecenterformindfuleating.org/IntroMindfulEating
You might look at all three of these approaches and see which one appeals to you more.0 -
I think I'm addicted to breathing. I mean, I just can't stop, and if I do, it's all I can think about until my next hit of air.1
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I totally feel what you're saying. I currently stay at home, so it's especially hard to not be busy and have a mindset like this. When I was working, I never had a real issue because my mind was constantly on other things besides food. I almost feel like I eat less when I'm not as focused on what I'm eating. It's like when I'm dieting I focus more on food and what I'm consuming. I try and keep myself as busy as possible, but one can only clean so much1
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Good post. While I do think losing weight is all about diet/nutrition, I will say that exercise and working out is when I had some kind of mental shift on the way I thought about food. The more I saw results from my workouts - stronger, more muscle, more endurance, more definition - the more I started getting motivated to fuel my body. Nourish it, get good sleep, eat well, avoid things that make me feel sluggish. Or thinking about the time, money, effort invested in my workouts, and then wanting to protect that investment at all costs. It really changed the way I looked at food the other 23 hours of the day. I still have treats and cheats and am not always perfect.
But I will say with consistency it's possible to change your habits. This coming from someone who ate doughnuts and red velvet cupcakes on a regular basis for breakfast. Now if I go off my eating for a few days, I feel so off, I can't wait to get back on it again. It has made a positive difference in the way I feel, mentally and physically.
I do find that sugar is very addictive for me. When I have it, I want more of it. That is the one thing I really made an effort to cut because when I don't have it, most of my cravings stop. Your tastes change a bit too. Now something like a sweet potato or berries taste sooo sweet to me. And things I would have destroyed before, like frosting or candy tastes so artificial and cloyingly sweet to me now, I don't even find it appealing. And I was addicted to that stuff. Never say never!!2 -
This is my Second Day today and I feel like I am on detox.
I just wrote this in my newfed "I am not going to lie to you all. I am hungry. It's not so much that I need to eat, it's that I want to eat. I ate enough to be full, it's in my mind. My stomach must have been stretched to the limit for years. Interesting enough, every time I think about eating I come here and look at my avatar picture. Screw you hunger! Go AWAY you are not real. I don't need to eat 5000 calories. I will have a healthy dinner and that's it! @#$@"
I am addicted to food. Not to the food itself, but to the emotional feeling that comes with it. Food is my friend, eating makes me feel good. I eat when I am happy, I eat when I am unhappy...yada yada yada.
People are addicted to gambling, coffee, sex (that part I understand) and many more things. It is in our mind.
I look at it this way. I hit rock bottom yesterday when I signed up here and when I took my disgusting avatar picture. I can keep on doing what I am doing or I can change.
I chose to change. I will change!
Yes, I am hungry and I would like to put my feet in ice cream and my face in a pie but that's not why I am here.
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I think about food all the time - but I calculate it based on my macros. This is called flexible dieting and no food is off limits - you just have to account for it...
Try googling IIFYM - this was a game changer for me! It's Thee only way I can sustain losing fat. Forget fad diets and starving yourself - jump on the macro bandwagon
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singingflutelady wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »
Though you can binge and not be overweight. As I said I was anorexic binge/ purge subtype (yes anorexics can binge) and went through inpatient, day hospital and out patient withany underweight and normal weight bulimics and anorexics who binge.JustMissTracy wrote: »JustMissTracy wrote: »lily083087 wrote: »I saw a documentary once that said people can be addicted to food and therefore it is much harder to diet as you have to eat. The line they said was 'imagine an alcoholic had to drink one drink a day' - it would be very difficult for them to stick at one.
Anyways, I know it is tough but try and surround yourself with food with lower calories so you can eat as much as you want. Focus on staying below your calorie allowance for the moment and don't worry too much about what you are eating and then you can build it up as you go. I don't know if you work out, but obviously exercise will open up your daily allowance meaning you don't have to be as strict with yourself..best of luck mate
Yes! This is exactly what I mean, that documentary sounds like it would hit close to home with me. What triggered this post was coming home from work last night to my roommate eating a delicious looking pizza meanwhile there is a piece of grilled chicken with veggies sitting in the fridge for me. The chicken immediately became very unappealing to me. It's not about evil food vs good food but I obviously have to start making better choices with food if I want to see a change. Temptation is everywhere! As hard as it was, I chose the chicken. (although I did snatch a pepperoni off the pizza and a small edge lol)
It boils down to what do I want more? A nice figure or a yummy snack. "A minute on the lips, forever on the hips"
I really don't think my "food addiction" is extreme, it's more of an analogy to express the struggle with adjusting to a new lifestyle and making the right choices. I need to be stronger than my cravings! It's more mental for some people I guess.
Anyway, thanks for your feedback!! Today is a new day!
It sounds like more of a willpower and self discipline issue than an addiction, thank goodness!! If it were addiction, you would have tossed the chicken and eaten half the pizza..healthy choices be damned. You are stronger than your cravings, you've already shown that. Now you just need to stay consistent to see results. Me thinks you've got it figured out, don't make it harder on yourself than you need to! xo
Nope. With addiction behavior all the chicken and all the pizza would have been eaten. Surreptitiously of course, after the roommate had gone to bed and wouldn't have immediately discovered it. And the eating everything in sight would have gone on into the wee morning hours. And maybe then there'd be a little run to the convenience store at 4 a.m. in an attempt to replace what was eaten because it belonged to someone else. If there was enough money left on the debit card to do that.
Sounds much like "binging"...been there!
I don't use that word anymore at MFP. Most people who are concerned that they "binged" ate 2,000 calories at a sitting and they also aren't overweight. (That's not directed at you Tracy, I just mean generally) That's what a lot of MFPers call a binge and they think they need a social worker and a prescription to treat their self diagnosed BED.
I hear you. And I wish the self professed bingers were as honest as you when posting about what they call binging. Then they post photos of themselves posing proudly all slim and trim. Either they 1) aren't posting updated pics of their fatness, or 2) are just eating too much food sometimes and dramatizing it as "bingeing" or 3) they're bulimic and not saying so.
I think #2 is the most common scenario with #3 being the second most common.
I do agree with that. I doubt a bulimic would admit the binging without admitting the getting rid of it.
Exercise bulimia and laxative purges are a little easier to hide IMHO especially when the frequency is lower. There are forums where people talk about that separate from here because they know if they discuss it here they will probably have their posts nixed and their accounts deleted. Not that I would know anything about this topic in general, coughcough.
Exercise bulimia is for sure real because I spent 6 months sleeping next to my daughter to make sure she wouldn't get up in the middle of the night and exercise. She couldn't physically make herself vomit, so this is how she would purge if she binged. She was anorexic, also (clinically for 1 month) and EDNOS. I truly feel for anyone who suffers from anything on the ED spectrum, because boy is it an ugly monster.1 -
caitlinbcx wrote: »I totally feel what you're saying. I currently stay at home, so it's especially hard to not be busy and have a mindset like this. When I was working, I never had a real issue because my mind was constantly on other things besides food. I almost feel like I eat less when I'm not as focused on what I'm eating. It's like when I'm dieting I focus more on food and what I'm consuming. I try and keep myself as busy as possible, but one can only clean so much
I've said these exact words!0 -
I feel the same way. Even as I was a kid, I'd be that person who would open and close the fridge and the cupboards over and over looking for something and I wasn't even hungry. I'd go back and forth until my grandmother would say "nothing's going to grow in there you know". I don't know why I did it. I was just constantly searching for something sweet like a granola bar, yogurt, candy, trail mix, ice cream, popsicles, anything. Even at 12 or 13 my mind was constantly searching out for sugar and I never grew out of it or stopped these weird habits until I flat out stopped eating sugar cold turkey.
Not everyone is addicted to it but I know I certainly am.3 -
BigandFurious wrote: »This is my Second Day today and I feel like I am on detox.
I chose to change. I will change!
Yes, I am hungry and I would like to put my feet in ice cream and my face in a pie but that's not why I am here.
Ha ha, I love your honesty! You made my day.
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PennWalker wrote: »BigandFurious wrote: »This is my Second Day today and I feel like I am on detox.
I chose to change. I will change!
Yes, I am hungry and I would like to put my feet in ice cream and my face in a pie but that's not why I am here.
Ha ha, I love your honesty! You made my day.
Today a coworker had pizza at her desk and I almost asked her if I could just lick the top of it. SO SO good.0 -
@mlzafron the one thing I can't buy are chips. I can resist them just fine in stores but if I know they are in the cupboard at home my mind will constantly nag me. "You know there's Doritos in there, right? You can have a couple. Remember how cheesy they are? SO CHEESY.." NO BRAIN IF I HAVE A COUPLE ILL EAT THE WHOLE BAG!1
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lily083087 wrote: »I saw a documentary once that said people can be addicted to food and therefore it is much harder to diet as you have to eat. The line they said was 'imagine an alcoholic had to drink one drink a day' - it would be very difficult for them to stick at one.
Anyways, I know it is tough but try and surround yourself with food with lower calories so you can eat as much as you want. Focus on staying below your calorie allowance for the moment and don't worry too much about what you are eating and then you can build it up as you go. I don't know if you work out, but obviously exercise will open up your daily allowance meaning you don't have to be as strict with yourself..best of luck mate
Yes! This is exactly what I mean, that documentary sounds like it would hit close to home with me. What triggered this post was coming home from work last night to my roommate eating a delicious looking pizza meanwhile there is a piece of grilled chicken with veggies sitting in the fridge for me. The chicken immediately became very unappealing to me. It's not about evil food vs good food but I obviously have to start making better choices with food if I want to see a change. Temptation is everywhere! As hard as it was, I chose the chicken. (although I did snatch a pepperoni off the pizza and a small edge lol)
It boils down to what do I want more? A nice figure or a yummy snack. "A minute on the lips, forever on the hips"
I really don't think my "food addiction" is extreme, it's more of an analogy to express the struggle with adjusting to a new lifestyle and making the right choices. I need to be stronger than my cravings! It's more mental for some people I guess.
Anyway, thanks for your feedback!! Today is a new day!
First of all, I think it sounds like you are doing well. One thing I've found (although I still struggle at times) is that habit and expectations are so important. If I am used to eating something (or at a particular time -- snacking during the afternoon at work, say), then I miss it. Once I adjust to doing things differently, I don't. The adjustment period is difficult sometimes, but things get easier.
Second, and this is not meant to be a nitpick, but something that frustrates me about the "food addiction" model (I think eating can be an addiction and even when it's not that there are similarities, such as food being used for emotional purposes -- for me the mindfulness approach that someone mentioned is part of what's been very helpful with this aspect). If framing this as an addiction makes working on the self-comfort aspect easier, then I think that's fine, although I think the point another poster made about us not really being great in helping people with addictions is a valid one--for me framing it as an addiction would not be useful. Anyway, that aside, I'm also open to the idea that some have more extreme reactions to "highly palatable foods" than others (although most of what people assert as part of this seems to me to be pathologizing normal human reactions to tasty food or food in general).
Uh, I kind of got off the point, so back to what I find frustrating, or simply inconsistent. Jake referenced a documentary where this claim was made: "people can be addicted to food and therefore it is much harder to diet as you have to eat. The line they said was 'imagine an alcoholic had to drink one drink a day' - it would be very difficult for them to stick at one." The argument seems to be that losing weight is tougher than ending an addiction, since an addict (to alcohol, say), just has to not drink, whereas a "food addict" still has to eat.
That's so, but then if the addiction were to "food," why wouldn't you then choose lower cal or more nutritious foods, that you presumably would not overeat? Or why aren't tons of people claiming to be overweight due to too much chicken breast and broccoli? (I agree that it's possible to become overweight eating mostly "healthy" foods -- I did this myself -- but that's because I included plenty of high calorie foods among them, even if generally considered wholesome and homemade.)
Going to your own example, it wasn't that you were tempted by "food." In fact, you didn't wish to eat the food you had, and wanted a different kind of food. It doesn't seem that eating some chicken was, to you, like the example of an alcoholic drinking one drink a day.
I'm not at all trying to say that the desire for tempting foods isn't tough to resist or that figuring out how to deal with the desire for more food/calories than you can eat without getting fat isn't a real problem or struggle. I'm challenging the idea (which you didn't say, but it was mentioned and gets said all the time) that it's SO MUCH harder than a struggle with drugs or alcohol, because you have to eat.
For the record, food struggles feel extremely different to me than addiction (I can be an overeater, even one who feels out of control around food, which is certainly a state I know, and not experience what I did when addicted, where basically the rest of my life wasn't worth anything in my own mind, because of the role the addiction was taking in my life -- that's how I personally understand addiction). But like I said, that's just how I understand the terms. I am cool with others framing their bingeing or response to ultra palatable foods (two separate things, since as I understand it bingeing isn't about specific foods, usually) as an addiction or not based on what they would consider helpful. I just object to the notion that it's impossible to deal with or so much harder since we have to eat, as since when is just eating anything supposed to be a trigger?
I am honestly confused about this notion, though, so am of course open to discussion.0 -
I was binge-watching "Nurse Jackie" on Netflix and realized I am addicted to food. She couldn't say no to the drugs even though taking drugs negatively affected her marriage, kids, friends, job, her career, and her self-image.
Yep, that's me.
I do read addiction literature because a lot of it does apply to how I relate to food.,2 -
I just think the "moremoremore" trip-switch is broken or faulty in some people and they haven't figured out how to fix it yet.
There is that moment between the craving and the actual "use" of the drug or eating the food. That is the moment when recovery from compulsive behavior can happen. That's also a really elusive moment to catch.
lemur, I like it when you get involved in these threads. I don't like to type that much, and you make good points.
There is a moment.
That's the Recovery moment. Anyone who has an anxious or compulsive nature knows that moment. I have to purposefully do something to break the spell. There are many distractions and mindfulness exercises to practice in that moment. It's fixable. For me, it's about slowing down.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I am honestly confused about this notion, though, so am of course open to discussion.
My "addiction concept" really was not meant to be taken quite so literally. As I mentioned in a disclaimer, I have never been addicted to substances before so I am imagining that this could be what it feels like. Being that I don't know for certain, there is no way for me to say for sure whether it is valid or not. Which honestly is besides the point because I was using it as an analogy to express the difficulty and life long struggle I personally deal with when it comes to fighting my battle with weight. Nothing more and nothing less. There have been many other members that completely understand and agree with what I was expressing.
After posting this I have come to realize that food addiction is a real thing and can be quite extreme and I in no way intend to belittle it. Or any addiction for that matter.
I do however understand the concept Jake mentioned from the documentary. Somehow it makes sense in my head but it doesn't have to make sense for everyone. Being that we require food to survive, it can be SO easy to consume more than required and sabotage weight loss progress. Some people are terrible with portion control (such as myself). Obviously it is not an option to cut food out cold turkey. I have a close friend who does not drink often but when she does, she doesn't know when to stop. She sabotages her own fun by becoming belligerent after consuming far too many drinks. Subsequently she has given up alcohol all together because she can't seem to ever have just one or two drinks.
I see the correlation between the two. If you still don't, that's okay. If you don't have the same problems then it won't matter anyway and I'm happy for you.
At the end of the day, my purpose for writing this in the forum was because I was having a difficult day and was looking for support. I was hoping someone would tell me it gets easier. And many have. While I can appreciate healthy discussion, ultimately the point is for motivation and support (hence the forum title). So thank you for any positive encouragement, I will gladly return it.
Good luck on your journey and happy logging!!
-Lily2 -
lily083087 wrote: »I see the correlation between the two. If you still don't, that's okay. If you don't have the same problems then it won't matter anyway and I'm happy for you.
I'm not sure how you got from what I said to things being easier for me or me not having the same issues. I think most overweight (and I used to be quite overweight) people struggle with food in some way. I don't think it requires "addiction" to explain something like your craving for the pizza vs. the planned dinner. But I don't care if it helps you to frame it that way, that wasn't my point.
What I was saying I didn't understand is that you seemed to be agreeing with the comment from the documentary and yet your own example was contrary to it.
The assertion that food "addiction" is harder to deal with than drug addiction is based on the notion that one can just not drink/take drugs, but of course one has to eat. And that's true. (One has to drink too, but not alcohol, of course.) So let's say you have issues with certain highly palatable foods. You then proceed to eat chicken, rice, and broccoli, because of course one has to eat. Are you going to be triggered to eat more? I think some might be, depending on how a particular bingeing issue works, or some may just be prone to overeat, but I think that's quite rare. Your own description was not that you ate the chicken (as required due to sustenance) and then were triggered. Instead, you seemed to suggest that the problem was that you didn't want to eat the chicken at all once you saw someone else eating food you found more tempting and difficult to stop eating.
I find the idea that "food addiction" is different because one has to eat kind of a ridiculous thing to say (again, I know you didn't say it -- the documentary apparently did), unless the assertion really is that eating absolutely any food triggers overeating. I've yet to find anyone claiming that -- some say food choice doesn't matter, it's the frame of mind beforehand, most speak of specific trigger foods. I have certainly misused food and felt out of control in my eating, and understand what that's like (and I do think BED sounds rather like addiction), but the idea that struggling with food must be worse that drug addiction because I HAVE to eat (as if I would ever think just not eating was a better choice) is what I find a strange claim.
Those who argue for a physical kind of "food addiction" (and so far as I can tell it's a minority -- the more popular idea is that eating can become a behavioral addiction and it's related to indulge and restrict cycles and related shame) tend to focus on highly palatable foods. It's not claimed that some are just addicted to "food."At the end of the day, my purpose for writing this in the forum was because I was having a difficult day and was looking for support. I was hoping someone would tell me it gets easier. And many have. While I can appreciate healthy discussion, ultimately the point is for motivation and support (hence the forum title). So thank you for any positive encouragement, I will gladly return it.
If you actually read my comment, I did say that I thought it got easier (making new habits is always hard at first but gets easier), and I think it's an interesting discussion. It certainly can be frustrating that we act in ways that seem contrary to our better judgment sometimes, although to some extent that's just human.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Sure, I used to have a serious drinking problem, as well as problems with other substances and behaviors, and the cravings for food felt exactly the same.
Now I get high from exercise.
I went to one or two each Smart Recovery and Rational Recovery meetings in the 90s and found them really helpful. RR no longer has meetings but you can get info from their website. https://rational.org/index.php?id=1
I found the Addictive Voice Recognition Technique very useful and subsequently learned this was a CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) technique like in 'The Beck Diet Solution: Train Your Brain to Think Like a Thin Person' http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0848732758/ref=s9_simh_gw_g14_i1_r. That was available in my library system, so perhaps yours as well.
When I do the following, I don't have cravings:
1. Get sufficient sleep
2. Exercise regularly - when I get the happy hormones from exercise, I'm not prone to seeking them from food.
3. Get sufficient protein in relationship to carbs. I'm not low carb, but reducing carbs and upping protein worked for cravings for me. See also http://www.nutrition.org.uk/healthyliving/fuller/understanding-satiety-feeling-full-after-a-meal.html
4. Eat moderate amounts of fruit. This makes me less interested in higher calorie sweets.
5. Take a magnesium supplement. This can be especially helpful for women premenstrually.
6. Save foods like chocolate for after dinner, in small amounts
7. Stay hydrated
8. Have a calorie deficit that is appropriate for the amount of weight I need to lose. An overly aggressive goal can definitely lead to cravings.
9. Eat at maintenance when my appetite goes up premenstrually.
Good luck!
Thank you for this. I've discovered some of this own my own by trial and error and am going to explore the others.1
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