Ready to Recomp . . .

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  • sgt1372
    sgt1372 Posts: 3,978 Member
    edited July 2017
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    bioklutz wrote: »
    Wow! That is impressive!

    Thanks!
    bioklutz wrote: »
    Also your skin does not look 66 years old!

    I assume it's due to genetics.
    bioklutz wrote: »
    How does your doctor feel about your body fat %? I have read that as we age it is better to have a little higher body fat.

    Have never discussed it w/my doctor.

    Essential fat level for men is around 5%. I'm above that and don't plan to drop below it.

    Most BF charts (including BMI) assume that older folks will get fatter as they age and allow for it in determining what they consider healthy weight/BF ranges but that doesn't mean that lower than expected BF for older people is necessily "bad" or unhealthy.

    I'm frankly in the best shape and healthier than I have been in many years and I have no plans on changing anyrhing I'm doing unless there's some specific medical or other reason to do so.
  • sgt1372
    sgt1372 Posts: 3,978 Member
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    J72FIT wrote: »
    You look fantastic. Well done. Very inspiring!

    Thanks!
  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Excellent work and results obviously showing it.
  • middlehaitch
    middlehaitch Posts: 8,483 Member
    edited July 2017
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    You are an inspiration sir.

    Cheers, h.

    ETA: I am a curious beast, so I am glad that I have a visual image of you to go along with all the progress posts etc.
  • sgt1372
    sgt1372 Posts: 3,978 Member
    edited July 2017
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    heybales wrote: »
    Excellent work and results obviously showing it.
    middlehaitch wrote: »
    You are an inspiration sir.


    Thanks to you both. :)
  • sgt1372
    sgt1372 Posts: 3,978 Member
    edited July 2017
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    Not posting this as a new topic on any subforum because I really am not trolling for comments. Just posting it as an "interesting observation" made during the course of my recomp and maintenance journey.

    I enjoy sunbathing and can sit in the sun tanning for hours on end, usually 7-9 in a day Please no health warnings against doing this. I am well aware of the risks.

    In any event, the last 2 times I went sunbathing, I weighed myself afterward and lost about 2-3# in the course of the day, despite eating normally (2k cals) and drinking about 4 liters of water.

    Definitely looked more cut after I got home each time. And, of course, the weight returned to "normal' after a few days.

    I assume that this was just water weight lost through skin evaporation and not the actual burning of any cals as some in the Net suggest is possible.

    Just thought this was 'interesting" and wondered if anyone else experienced the same thing.

    If I was competing in a sport like boxing that required me to make a specific wt or in a physique competition where I needed my muscles to pop a bit more, it certainly would be a novel way to accomplish it.
  • sgt1372
    sgt1372 Posts: 3,978 Member
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    So, just had my quarterly DXA scan and it came in at 13.4%, essentially unchanged from 3 months ago at 13.3% and little changed from 6 months ago at 14.0%.

    Here are the comparative stats from the all 5 DXA scans that I've taken in the past year:

    8/19/17: BF 13.4%, BW 160.4#, BF 21.4#, LBM 132.0# plus Bone 7.0#
    6/3/17: BF 13.3%, BW 156.2#, BF 20.8#, LBM 128.2# plus Bone 7.1#
    2/25/17; BF 14.0%, BW 159.5#, BF 22.3#, LBM 130.0# plus Bone 7.1#
    10/22/16:BF 16.0%, BW 166.7#, BF 26.6#, LBM 133.0# plus Bone 7.0#
    8/29/16: BF 20.3%, BW 172.2#, BF 34.9%, LBM 130.2# plus Bone 7.0#

    What is apparent is that virtually all of my fat loss occurred between May 2016 when I actually started my current weight loss effort and Feb 2017 (9 months) but there really has NOT been any recomp over the past 6 months during which time BF dropped only 1# while LBM remained fairly constant only varrying between 130-132#.

    What's even more revealing is that my LBM has in fact remained vary constant over the past 12 months, only increasing the range by 1# from 130-133, while BF dropped from 35# to 21#, which means that I haven't really gained any LBM -- only lost fat.

    This conclusion is also confirmed by my hydrostatic test results, which differ greatly in terms of percentages but confirm the trend:

    7/13/17: BF 08.9%, BW 154.4#, BF 13.75#, LBM 140.65#
    4/01/17: BF 10.1%, BW 158.0#, BF 16.00#, LBM 142.00#
    12/3/16: BF 12.1%, BW 161.0#, BF 19.50#, LBM 141.50#
    9/23/16: BF 16.9%, BW 166.0#, BF 28.10#, LBM 137.90#

    Again, LBM (including Bone) remained fairly constant between 138-142# while BF dropped from around 28# to 14#.

    The DXA scans indicate that I've plateaued in terms of fat loss while the hydro tests suggest that I'm still losing fat but LBM for both remains fairly constant. So, I'm obviously NOT eating enough and/or doing enough lifting or other exercise to generate any additional LBM (or muscle) at all -- just maintain it -- and there apparently has been no real "recomp" at all or, if there has been, very little -- only a pound or 2 at most over the past year.

    Oh well . . .

    The only other thing of note from my DXA scans has been the change in VAT - visceral adipose tissue (or belly fat) -- over the past year, which has dropped significantly from 41.51 cubic inches and 1.41# in 8/16 to just 8.74 cubic inches and 0.30# in 8/17, most of that loss occurring in the 1st nine months along w/the rest of the body fat loss overall, which I assume mainly accounts for my now visible abs.

    So, while I was "ready for recomp" 6 months ago, the truth of the matter is that nothing I've done so far has actually achieved it. On the other hand, what I have done in terms of eating/exercising has at least proven that I have been able to maintain my weight, including my LBM and BF, at a relatively constant level.

    That's certainly better than gaining weight and fat. ;)



    The question is whether I can do anything differently to actually increase LBM and reduce fat further. I'm already eating more than enough protein (over 200g/day) and exercising enough (4-5x's a week). I'm also still increasing the weights lifted slowly but progressively.

    The calculated 1RM for the 4 compound lifts that I do are now:

    DL: 403
    SQT: 274
    BP: 210
    OHP: 126

    In Feb 2017, the 1RMs were:

    DL: 350
    SQT: 250
    BP: 170
    OHP: 125

    So, in the past 6 months, I've increased the 1RM for each lift by:

    DL: 15.1%
    SQT: 9.6%
    BP: 23.5%
    OHP: 0.8%

    Obviously, OHP is my weakest lift but I made significant progress in all of the other lifts. Also, according to Strength Level, these figures put me in the Advanced level for SQT, BP and OHP and at the Elite level for DL for men my age (66) and weight (160).

    So, I'm not sure how much effort put into increasing my strength further would contribute to recomp -- increasing LBM and reducing fat -- since these strength gains have NOT translated into any significant recomp in the past 6 months and pushing any harder will just make injury more likely, which is something I obviously want to avoid.

    I will just have to keep plugging away and see if any changes occur. If nothing changes, I'm just going to leave well enough alone and content myself with the signficant results that I have achieved so far.



  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
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    Maybe it's time to review your goals?
    If those goals are changing from primarily strength to hypertrophy then it's time to review your training regime.
  • sgt1372
    sgt1372 Posts: 3,978 Member
    edited August 2017
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    sijomial wrote: »
    Maybe it's time to review your goals?
    If those goals are changing from primarily strength to hypertrophy then it's time to review your training regime.

    Perhaps but I'm satisfied to maintain my weight, strength and LBM/BF, as they are now.

    Whatever I am (and have been) doing in terms of diet and exercise has resulted in signifcant overall weight and fat loss and increase in strength. It was just surprising to me that my LBM did not increase but remained constant over time.

    Only recently over the past 6 months, based on the DXA scans, has my weight and BF/LBM levels seem to have plateaued. However, this alone would be an acceptable goal to maintain.

    I do not have any particular desire to increase my size and weight (including BF%), which would be the goals (and/or by-products) of a muscular development hypertrophy program, because I consider my current weight, size, strength and BF/LBM levels virtually ideal for me.

    So, as I said, I'm going to leave well enough alone.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
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    I was getting the impression you weren't happy from the comment.... "The question is whether I can do anything differently to actually increase LBM and reduce fat further " - but it's great news that you are happy with the progress you've made.

    So yes you could do something different (a hypertrophy biased routine which you can do without a calorie surplus) it you wanted to but you don't feel the need to. A nice place to be.
  • middlehaitch
    middlehaitch Posts: 8,483 Member
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    You are maintaining an impressive 'good enough'.
    Well played sir :)

    Cheers, h.
  • sgt1372
    sgt1372 Posts: 3,978 Member
    edited December 2017
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    My 18 month weight loss and maintenance effort has come to an close and it's time to post the results.

    My starting weight in May 2016 was 196# w/an estimated 25% BF (no baseline measurement); 147# LBM & 49# BF.

    My weight in Nov 2016 at the start of the maintenance period was 160# w/BF at 16% as measured by hydro; 134# LBM & 26# BF.

    My weight is at the end of Nov 2017 was 158#, where it has been +/-3# over the past 12 months w/BF at 10% as measured by hydro; 142# LBM & 16# BF.

    I ate at a deficit for the 1st 6 months and at maintenance for the following 12 months. During the entire 18 month period, I also lifted heavy and exercised regularly. My strength increased substantially and my lifts (as compared w/other men my age & wt) are rated at the advanced (95%) and elite (99%) levels based on the Strength Level database.

    During the initial 6 month weight loss & deficit diet period, my LBM decreased by 13# (9%) and my BF decreased by 23# (47%) resulting in the 36# (18%) weight loss overall from 196# to 160#.

    During the 12 month maintenance period, I was able to increase my LBM by 8# (6%) while also reducing my BF by another 10# (38%) for a net loss in weight of 2# (1%) from 160# to 158#.

    What this data says is that I was NOT able to increase LBM while on a deficit diet BUT that I was able to increase LBM while continuing to lose BF in the process (aka recomp) to a modest degree while eating at maintenance. So, at least for me, it was not possible to "gain muscle in a deficit" but was possible while in maintenance.

    I am quite happy w/what I consider the final result at 158# & 10% BF and consider my efforts over the past 18 months to have been a resounding success.

    The photos that I posted above are still an accurate reflection of my physique. All I have to do now is just continue to maintain it. ;)
  • Kiwi_Billings
    Kiwi_Billings Posts: 76 Member
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    Very inspiring! thank you for sharing your journey. I am working on re-comping too. I swim and do bodyweight work. It's impressive to see how your hard work has paid off! Heading out for a swim, on that note.
  • LiftHeavyThings27105
    LiftHeavyThings27105 Posts: 2,086 Member
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    Awesome.....absolutely awesome!
  • sgt1372
    sgt1372 Posts: 3,978 Member
    edited December 2017
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    LiftHeavyThings27105 wrote: »
    WOW! Awesome job! If I might ask, what are your lifting numbers (Bench, Dead, Squat, OHP, Row)? It sounds like you really nailed this.....awesome job (again)!

    I am currently doing a 4x6 set/rep ramping routine (starting at a lower weight and increasing the weight each subsequent set) for all lifts. I lift 4 days a week but only do 1-2 types of lifts per day. I do not attempt an actual 1RM anymore because of the risk of injury.

    The 1RME (Estimated 1 Rep Max) is calculated based a single set with various reps the specified weight on the Strength Levels website. See: https://strengthlevel.com/

    The % level and group rating is also based on the Strength Level database when compared w/other men in my age (67) and weight (158). My lifts obviously pale in comparison with what men younger and heavier than me can do.

    That said, these are my max lifting stats:

    SQT: 1x6x235 - 272.9 1RME (96% Adv)

    DL: 1x6x335 - 389.1 1RME (99.7% Elite)

    BP: 1x6x175 - 200.3 1RME (95% Elite)

    OHP: 1x8x100 - 124.2 1RME (88% Adv)

    Rows: 1x10x135 - 194 1RME (94% Adv)


    I am NOT trying to lift any heavier than these weights anymore. If I do, fine, but that is NOT my objective. I could obviously improve my OHP but that's not a pressing concern. My current goal is simply to maintain my current level of strength and fitness w/o unnecessary risk of injury.

    Attempting to lift more weight would risk injury for no good reason. Strength Level rates me at the Elite level overall - stronger than 99.5% of the men in my age and weight range. If this rating is to be believed, there really is no need or reason IMO to try to get "stronger" than the remaining 0.5% of the men in class. ;)

  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Ah ha! Where that website and other calculators miss out on best 1RM estimates is not including the Actual Resistance - the fact you were lifting a majority of your weight at the same time.

    That % of your weight really needs to be added on, then 1RM estimated, then current bodyweight taken out again for weight on the bar.

    This is also best method when you change to other rep ranges.

    http://www.exrx.net/WeightTraining/Bodyweight.html

    For instance, squats and DL's includes about 77% of your bodyweight.
    So actual resistance was 357 & 457.
    1RM's would be 414 & 530 AR.
    On the bar would be 293 & 409.

    Hey, 20 lbs is worth it!
  • sgt1372
    sgt1372 Posts: 3,978 Member
    edited December 2017
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    heybales wrote: »
    Hey, 20 lbs is worth it!

    Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm not interested.

    I'm well aware in the variance between 1RM calculators but Strength Level also rates your lifts vs those of other users of the website in your age/wt category and that comparison is more relevant to me than the 1RM calculated for my lifts.

    Strength Levels rates me as stronger than 99.5% "of the men in my class. I'm more than satisfied with this ranking and am not interested in lifting more due to the risk of injury.

    That risk may not matter as much to younger men but it makes a big difference to me at age 67.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
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    This really tickled my funny bone!
    "I could obviously improve my OHP but that's not a pressing concern."
    :smiley:

  • heybales
    heybales Posts: 18,842 Member
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    Oh, I meant purely as estimating 1RM from existing levels.

    Not in actually increasing anything, your estimated 1RM is actually 20lb heavier than you are given credit for, for squats and DL's.

    Which means your comparisons are actually in higher bracket even again.

    But true, not an automatic compare then, and not possible to log those results for it on the website for future compare.

    But that same risk mindset is exactly why I backed out of the 5x5 getting my strength back, just too great an odds one bad rep form could knock something out. 3 x 10-14 much safer in that regard.

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