October (2016) Running Challenge
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I do note, however, that since she hasn't run yet today, I'm ahead of @kristinegift on the Garmin leaderboard. For now. Small victories.
I don't run on Fridays, so enjoy your victory day, @9voice9!7 -
1/10: 5.09 km (running and squatting in a cornfield scaring people in my PT job for Halloween season)
2/10: REST
3/10: 5.02 km (1/3 interval, 2/3 steady treadmill run) + 20 mins yoga + strength exercises (arms and core)
4/10: 5.01 km (steady treadmill run) + 20 mins yoga
5/10: 5.16 km (minimal progression run) + 20 mins yoga + strength exercises (shoulders and core)
6/10: 5.03 km (interval treadmill run) + 20 mins yoga + strength exercises (chest and legs)
7/10: 5.20 km (interval treadmill run) + 20 mins yoga + strength exercises (upper back and core) + 4.00 km (running and squatting in a cornfield)
8/10: 5.00 km (running and squatting in a cornfield)
9/10: REST
10/10: 10.39 km (general hike and spelunking in a cave)
11/10: 5.03 km (interval treadmill run) + 20 mins yoga + strength exercises (shoulders and core)
12/10: 5.00 km (mild progression run) + 20 mins yoga + strength exercises (arms and legs)
13/10: 4.74 km (steady pace run) + 20 mins yoga + strength exercises (chest and core)
14/10: 3.50 km (interval treadmill walk/run) + 20 mins yoga
Current PR: 5K in 32:50 / 10K in 1:12:07 / 20K in 2:45:11
Races:
20/10-01/11: Zombies Run! App 2016 Fall Virtual Run
3.5 km walk/run was all I had in me today. This weekend will be full rest for both days. Need to recharge my batteries.
Happy TGIF!3 -
@MNLittleFinn Week 11 of level 2 has a 20 miler. It's the only one (although I added another). However, he has lots of long runs with speed play and fast finishes, which I actually found to be more beneficial overall. As others have said, the 20 miler seems to be more about mental preparation than physical. I think the experienced coaches realize this and try to minimize the number of long runs because they know that most runners are going to overshoot what's recommended anyway. Cause that's what we do
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@lporter229 somehow I missed that! Guess I didn't expect the 20 miler to be 5 weeks out.....guess that shows me for not looking hard enough!1
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MNLittleFinn wrote: »@Elise4270 long runs for the first 2 plans top out at 18 miles. I was just curious because, while the 6,2 mile gap between most plans' longest run and a full is pretty big, an 8.2 mile gap seems HUGE....despite only being a 2 mile difference.
I mainly got the book for the HR and 80/20 split data....the training plans were just a bonus for some fun....but I guess I started a decent discussion because of them....
I've not run the full and don't really plan on one, but I'd think for my first I'd be okay with the 18 slow miles. I left off doing 7-9 miles for a long run (kinda, not really since I was building) and it was plenty to keep me half ready. But I am not an authority. Nor have the experience. Yeild to the experts here.
I'm interested in the 80/20 thing. But I'll be back to base building. Guess you can still run your base building miles at this pace split?
Definitely a good conversation to iron out the plans and views.
I have a few of MF's books. I love them. I don't abide by them or cook out of 'em much anymore.... But they've been helpful. And I use his dqs app
sorry @Stoshew71 , don't think of me as a traitor. Maybe when I get faster and stronger I'll branch out and study others philosophies 
. I'd be down if Lauren Fleshman put something together!
I'm not quite sure how you would assume that I am thinking that you are a traitor.
Not everyone is going to draw to the different philosophies.
@MNLittleFinn So you are talking about the 80/20 book. I actually do have that one. I got it at the same time that I got Lydiard's book and Running Wild. I just haven't gotten to open his book yet. I have been so busy with a bunch of other personal stuff that my reading came to a screeching halt. Your posts may encourage me to open up the book and actually read it now.2 -
@Stoshew71 I can't believe I forgot to say that! Yeah, I'm reading 80/20 RUNNING, I wanted to get more info on 80/20 running and I prefer paper over reading on the internet, so I got it. He does seem to think a lot of himself in the book, but he knows a lot, and the info is good, so it's been a good read so far.1
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10/1 - 12.2 mile group run. It was a nice cool morning.
10/2 - Rest day with much over-eating.
10/3 - Overslept, but squeezed in a short 3.1 miles.
10/4 - Bodypump class, then a TOUGH Abs/Core class. Finally won the Snooze Button Battle!
10/5 - 5.06 miles. After last night's rain, we have officially begun slippery leaf season.
10/6 - Taper / rest day. Only 10 days until IMT Half Marathon. Can't wait...love the race day atmosphere!
10/7 - 5.01 miles. Chilly and windy today = long sleeves and tights
10/8 - 7.9 miles. Lovely morning.
10/9 - Rest day.
10/10 - Sick day...quick 24-hour virus.
10/11 - 4.65 miles.
10/12 - 5.0 miles. Windy. Negative splits...whoop!
10/13 - Family sick day...wife/daughter have whatever I did.
10/14 - 5.06 miles. Relaxed, easy...felt like I could go forever. Alas, there is a race to be run on Sunday and a job to go to.
ETA: New running shoes just delivered! Woo hoo!5 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »@Elise4270 long runs for the first 2 plans top out at 18 miles. I was just curious because, while the 6,2 mile gap between most plans' longest run and a full is pretty big, an 8.2 mile gap seems HUGE....despite only being a 2 mile difference.
I mainly got the book for the HR and 80/20 split data....the training plans were just a bonus for some fun....but I guess I started a decent discussion because of them....
I've not run the full and don't really plan on one, but I'd think for my first I'd be okay with the 18 slow miles. I left off doing 7-9 miles for a long run (kinda, not really since I was building) and it was plenty to keep me half ready. But I am not an authority. Nor have the experience. Yeild to the experts here.
I'm interested in the 80/20 thing. But I'll be back to base building. Guess you can still run your base building miles at this pace split?
Definitely a good conversation to iron out the plans and views.
I have a few of MF's books. I love them. I don't abide by them or cook out of 'em much anymore.... But they've been helpful. And I use his dqs app sorry @Stoshew71 , don't think of me as a traitor. Maybe when I get faster and stronger I'll branch out and study others philosophies . I'd be down if Lauren Fleshman put something together!
I'm not quite sure how you would assume that I am thinking that you are a traitor.
Not everyone is going to draw to the different philosophies.
Lol! I was just teasing. I haven't researched enough to have much of an educated option. So far, you're my education.3 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »@Elise4270 long runs for the first 2 plans top out at 18 miles. I was just curious because, while the 6,2 mile gap between most plans' longest run and a full is pretty big, an 8.2 mile gap seems HUGE....despite only being a 2 mile difference.
I mainly got the book for the HR and 80/20 split data....the training plans were just a bonus for some fun....but I guess I started a decent discussion because of them....
I've not run the full and don't really plan on one, but I'd think for my first I'd be okay with the 18 slow miles. I left off doing 7-9 miles for a long run (kinda, not really since I was building) and it was plenty to keep me half ready. But I am not an authority. Nor have the experience. Yeild to the experts here.
I'm interested in the 80/20 thing. But I'll be back to base building. Guess you can still run your base building miles at this pace split?
Definitely a good conversation to iron out the plans and views.
I have a few of MF's books. I love them. I don't abide by them or cook out of 'em much anymore.... But they've been helpful. And I use his dqs app sorry @Stoshew71 , don't think of me as a traitor. Maybe when I get faster and stronger I'll branch out and study others philosophies . I'd be down if Lauren Fleshman put something together!
I'm not quite sure how you would assume that I am thinking that you are a traitor.
Not everyone is going to draw to the different philosophies.
Lol! I was just teasing. I haven't researched enough to have much of an educated option. So far, you're my education.
I really need to start charging you folks for my wisdom and knowledge. ;-)7 -
I just realized that, by trying to switch to HR based training, my views on my runs are totally different now. I used to worry about pace and keep in a certain pace zone. This often led to me running faster than I should, as I subconsciously would try to beat my last split each mile, and when I had a positive split, I would run too hard the next mile.
With trying to keep my runs in z2, I still have a little bit of the trying to go faster, but being more conscious of my HR has really slowed me down. I now can see that I ended up doing a lot of my running at Threshold or faster and, while that made for some awesome times on my training runs (out to 12 miles), it didn't prepare me for race day. The excitement/stress of racing sapped my cardio, and since I hadn't been training to build cardio, with my too fast runs, I ended up bonking the last 5k of the 2 official HMs. it's interesting. I still want to try for a sub-2 HM, but I'm more interested (at the moment admittedly) in finding a pace where I can just run the whole time. I'm looking forward to increasing the time of my HR based runs, and I think I'm going to worry less about total distance each run (while still having a monthly mileage goal) and focus on keeping a good HR for a longer and longer duration.
Sorry for the long read, thoughts just tumbled out.5 -
MNLittleFinn wrote: »@Elise4270 long runs for the first 2 plans top out at 18 miles. I was just curious because, while the 6,2 mile gap between most plans' longest run and a full is pretty big, an 8.2 mile gap seems HUGE....despite only being a 2 mile difference.
I mainly got the book for the HR and 80/20 split data....the training plans were just a bonus for some fun....but I guess I started a decent discussion because of them....
I've not run the full and don't really plan on one, but I'd think for my first I'd be okay with the 18 slow miles. I left off doing 7-9 miles for a long run (kinda, not really since I was building) and it was plenty to keep me half ready. But I am not an authority. Nor have the experience. Yeild to the experts here.
I'm interested in the 80/20 thing. But I'll be back to base building. Guess you can still run your base building miles at this pace split?
Definitely a good conversation to iron out the plans and views.
I have a few of MF's books. I love them. I don't abide by them or cook out of 'em much anymore.... But they've been helpful. And I use his dqs app sorry @Stoshew71 , don't think of me as a traitor. Maybe when I get faster and stronger I'll branch out and study others philosophies . I'd be down if Lauren Fleshman put something together!
I'm not quite sure how you would assume that I am thinking that you are a traitor.
Not everyone is going to draw to the different philosophies.
Lol! I was just teasing. I haven't researched enough to have much of an educated option. So far, you're my education.
I really need to start charging you folks for my wisdom and knowledge. ;-)
Write a book. Cha-ching!4 -
@MNLittleFinn The light bulb has clicked! Yay! That is the whole point of the 80/20 program. The crazy thing is, you will just naturally get faster. Lots faster. Trust me. It happens. When I started running based on HR, it was the hardest thing to slow down. I eventually set my Garmin to time, distance and HR and ignored pace entirely until the end of the run. Little by little, those paces just started coming down without any change in my heart rate. Now, you are going to have variation from day to day and one day may be quite a bit slower than the previous. Don't let that get you freaked out. If you track pace vs. HR for a month, you will see the downward trend. And, more importantly, running will be super easy and enjoyable while you are in that base building period, because you really don't have to push yourself too far out of your comfort zone.3
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lporter229 wrote: »@MNLittleFinn Week 11 of level 2 has a 20 miler. It's the only one (although I added another). However, he has lots of long runs with speed play and fast finishes, which I actually found to be more beneficial overall. As others have said, the 20 miler seems to be more about mental preparation than physical. I think the experienced coaches realize this and try to minimize the number of long runs because they know that most runners are going to overshoot what's recommended anyway. Cause that's what we do
So this is something I discovered in the last few weeks. When the weather outside started to cool off, I was playing a lot with my marathon pace and 1/2 marathon paces. I was doing a lot on my Monday runs by putting maybe 4 straight mile splits at HM pace. Maybe on my Tuesday run string 2 at GMP, get 6 mile splits on Saturday at GMP... and was doing that for a few weeks. All while maintaining at least 65 miles and in some cases reached 70 miles for the week. Then I started to lose my strength. I felt like my body wasn't recovering enough. Fine, I need a cutback week. Great. I was then able to hit those splits again, but then quickly felt like my strength was gone after a week or 2 of this. Last Saturday I only had enough in me to run 17 miles. I wanted to do at least 18 but couldn't.
The decision I had to make earlier this week was do I declare this week another cutback week even though I just had one 2 weeks ago? Or change how I am going to run this week. I chose to keep high mileage but not worry about speed work this week, just keep everything at a slower pace (except Tuesday where I ran 7 miles in between my GHMP and GMP- mainly because Scott who I was running with us drove our pace). Which is fine, that was my tempo run for the week. And yesterday I had a double planned, but scraped the afternoon session because it was my work's organization day and they signed me up for every darn thing they could sign me up for (kickball, volleyball, 3 on 3 basketball), and this was right after my 9 miler with hill repeats. So no double yesterday. So my weekly mileage will be a little off this week. Next week will be a cutback week, since I had 3 big mileage weeks in a row.
But I was thinking about what I will do the following week. And what was going in my mind was that if I am going to continue to play with speed on a lot of my splits, I may have to reduce some of the mileage by either cutting out some doubles or shorter long run. @lporter229 I think your post above may confirm what I have been thinking. Thanks!
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@lporter229 yeah, it's a HUGE change for me, but I'm finally at a point where I feel comfortable going slower. Partially it's just been that I had to fit my runs in, and time/distance/pace were what I looked at. I'm really focusing on just distance and HR now, with time a close third for most easy runs, since they are before work, and I'm only willing to wake up so early.1
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When I woke up this morning I couldn't decide whether to walk or run. When I got outside and discovered it was 38 degrees outside, I decided to RUN so that I could get warm. The jacket was definitely needed today. There was even frost on the ground.
I've been neglecting my walking miles this month, so I think it's time to do a ten miler this weekend.
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MNLittleFinn wrote: »@Stoshew71 I can't believe I forgot to say that! Yeah, I'm reading 80/20 RUNNING, I wanted to get more info on 80/20 running and I prefer paper over reading on the internet, so I got it. He does seem to think a lot of himself in the book, but he knows a lot, and the info is good, so it's been a good read so far.
Fitzgerald is super nice. I had a question after reading the book, so I emailed him. He replied within about 8 hours and then replied again to clarify further. I was very impressed.6 -
Date Miles today - Miles for October
10/1 20 miles - 20
10/2 REST DAY
10/3 8.1 miles - 28.1
10/3 5 miles - 33.1 << Daily Double
10/4 9 miles - 42.1
10/4 5 miles - 47.1 << Daily Double
10/5 5 miles - 52.1
10/6 10.5 miles - 62.6
10/7 5 miles - 67.6
10/8 17 miles - 84.6
10/9 REST DAY
10/10 13.1 miles - 97.7
10/11 9 miles - 106.7
10/11 4 miles - 110.7 << Daily Double
10/12 5 miles - 115.7
10/13 9.3 miles - 125
10/14 4 miles - 129
Upcoming races:
UAH 8K - 3/6 <<< 34:33 3 in AG
Oak Barrel HM - 4/2 <<<< 1:38:00 3 in AG
Bridge Street HM - 4/10 <<< 1:36:33 3 in AG
PEO-AVN Team Day 5K - 5/4 <<< 19:10 (2.9 mi) 1 in AG 5 OA
Cotton Row Run 10K - 5/30 << 44:57 PR
Firecracker Chase 10.2 miler 6/25 << 1:20:22 1 in AG & 15 OA
Huntsville Half Marathon - 11/12
Rocket City Marathon - 12/10
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ok life has seriously given me too many obstacles this week, lol. I DO NOT LIKE UNSCHEDULED REST DAYS! lol
Did get in a light 5 miles this morning. A sprint dual this weekend so I have turned this into a taper weeks.
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MNLittleFinn wrote: »@Elise4270 long runs for the first 2 plans top out at 18 miles. I was just curious because, while the 6,2 mile gap between most plans' longest run and a full is pretty big, an 8.2 mile gap seems HUGE....despite only being a 2 mile difference.
When you consider that an 18 or 20 mile long run comes after already running 25 to 40 miles, but a marathon comes after the recovery effects of a two week taper, then throw in the adrenaline of the race and the knowledge that you don't have to save anything during the race for the following week's training, I don't think the difference of 6.2 or even 8.2 miles is a big deal.
Regarding HR based running...Nearly all of my training is either effort based or HR based, rarely pace based. When I run a race, while I may have a pace goal or a total time goal, during the race but I put forth the level of effort required to hit a certain HR, not a certain pace. I have the Daniels tables in Excel format that I use and frequently update and it tells me what my goal HR should be for any given race distance. It's an iterative process and I often will compare the paces & HRs of my training runs and races to the table to make sure everything aligns and makes sense.
Attached is a screen capture of my data from the table. I entered my latest race, a 23:45 time in a 5K and personal data such as weight and HR info (any number is blue is a number I e. With that the tables will estimate my pace and HR for various race distances, my LT zone pace & HR ranges, and several different training run paces and HRs.
With recent race data as input, the tables tell me that my HR should have been about 173 but my Garmin tells me it averaged 171...pretty close. A recent long run of 13 miles had my HR at 131 and my pace at 10:23. That's slower than the tables would suggest but I was coming off an injury and not enough sleep, so again...pretty close.
If I haven't run a race in quite a while I'll enter in fake race data until the HR/pace output of the tables matches my recent training runs.
I don't look for accuracy with this table, just for guidance and feedback. The first time you run a race distance it's difficult to know just how much effort you should put into. You don't want to be too conservative and get a time slower than you could have, but you don't want to go too aggressive and run out of gas before the finish line either. This table has helped me tremendously in that regard. Last year when I ran my first half, it absolutely nailed my pace & HR for me. When I ran my full in May I had three weeks of minimal running leading up to the race due to injury so running based on HR was particularly useful because I didn't now how much cardio I had lost. Again, the tables just nailed it for me...at least for the first 22 miles before my quads lit on fire.
I've been hesitant to mention this table before because it can be a bit overwelming. It has a TON of output and it takes a while to understand what it's telling you and how to use it. There's a lot more to it that doesn't show up on the screen cap because of spreadsheet protection, such as- Tempo paces vs. tempo run duration
- interval split times
- McMillan training range guidelines
- Friel training zone approximations
- Absolute VO2max table
- Table to calculate your weekly training intensity distribution (percent at different efforts)
- Race time projection table
- Age/Sex grading
- Age, weight and temperature adjustment calculations.
I'm certainly not an expert in all this but as an engineer I'm a data fiend so I love digging into this. One thing I do know is that the greater your base, the more accurate this will be. You can't run your first 5K, punch in the numbers, and think you'll run a 10k the following weekend in the time it tells you. When I ran my marathon, the tables told me I could do it in 3:58 and my goal was 4:00. I was well on my way to making that goal when my quads lit up and I ended up at 4:09. My take away from that was though my cardio could have held out for a 4:00, I didn't have enough training in my legs to do it. After a recent 5K of 23:45 it tells me that my marathon time might be 3:47. No way I could do that anytime soon but if I were to start training for one, with more hills to build up my quads, by the time the race came around I would set my HR goal at 153 like it indicates and I bet I could get pretty close.
The full table, with instructions, can be found here:
http://www.electricblues.com/html/runpro.html
When I get a chance I'll start a thread on the group forum section and we can discuss this table one portion of this at a time.
^ Well that all ended up a LOT longer than I expected!
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I just noticed something. GC is not using my custom HR zones for training plans. I had put one in my calendar, just to play around with, and when I looked at the workouts, the HR's the easy runs had were way lower than the ones I use based on HRR.....that's annoying....Maybe I need to re-sync my Forerunner?0
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