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Is it cheating?
Replies
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Packerjohn wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Weight loss advice (medical advice) from other than a medical professional should be taken with a grain truckload of salt.
that is hilarious given some of the worst advice on this site usually starts with "my doctor/nutritionist/dietitian/ etc told me..."
So what do you think is a better source of medical advice than a medical professional examining an individual? Obviously someone can get the advice, read, get another opinion, ask follow-up questions, etc.
IMO, I'd take that road rather than random internet posters.
BTW, what medical experience/education do you have to judge what is "some of the worst advice on this site"?
well when someone says "my doctor told me to avoid all sugar because it makes you fat" that is a pretty huge red flag...
I am sure you can use the handy search feature and find all kinds of threads like this...2 -
xmichaelyx wrote: »There are people who consider any discomfort - no matter how minor - to be horrifying and life-threatening. Those people will fail after surgery the same way they failed before surgery.
The people who will succeed after surgery are the people who could accept a lifestyle change and succeed the way the rest of us do, and so never needed to it begin with.
Weight loss surgery isn't cheating; it's pointless.
I completely disagree that it's pointless. For some people, it's exactly what they need. My BIL was morbidly obese and had the surgery after a pretty big health scare. His doctor was concerned that he might not live much longer if he didn't lose the weight quickly. He's kept it off for a couple of years now, and his health is greatly improved. His healthy habits concerning food quantity, set meal times, and activity have become ingrained. He respects his stomach is smaller, and there will be immediate consequences if he overeats. There aren't immediate consequences for someone who hasn't had surgery - if I overeat, I might feel lethargic or a bit nauseated, but I'm not involuntarily throwing up or in great pain. It's a different way of staying motivated for maintenance for sure... Not one I'd ever want, but one that works for some.6 -
I don't consider it cheating, but it's not the best solution. The surgery does nothing to address the causes for being overweight. If those aren't confronted and resolved, they'll be right back in the same situation some time later.0
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Of course it isn't cheating. However there are risks and (my personal opinion) I think a patients mental status needs careful evaluation to make sure they understand these dangerous, and potentially life altering, risks.
However a person ultimately chooses to proceed, hopefully this person, understands that if he/she hasn't changed how they eat and how they live, they'll fail.
At one point when I was morbidly obese, surgery could have been an option for me but I took control and was able to make changes before my health was damaged. The path I chose was right for me and I have no regrets, but I don't know all the factors for those that do decide on surgery.0 -
MeganMoroz89 wrote: »Am I the only one who read what OP said completely differently? I've been reading the comments and a lot of people are commenting on if having the surgery is cheating but I thought OP was saying that the coworker said that you can't trust the weight loss advice of the person who had the surgery because "what do they know, they cheated to lose their weight" ?
I thought the OP was saying that her coworker thought surgery was cheating (no work involved) and advice from that person would be invalid to anyone who actually worked to lose weight.
My answer is to the advice portion is that the person who had surgery may have good advice or may have bad advice. Surgery is not really the deciding factor. Can they give advice to people who haven't had surgery? I believe they are quite capable of understanding CICO and that it will be based on that person's stats not theirs.
There are a lot of people who lose weight with fad or extreme diets and give advice. They work insanely hard you might say but their weight loss advice might not be particularly healthy/trustworthy. I might trust the advice of the person who had surgery much more.
Good advice is good. Bad advice is bad.
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I had an argument of sorts today because a person in our workplace was giving advise on weight loss to another coworker, but the coworker giving the advise had gastric surgery to lose weight. So the other coworker said "that shouldn't count because she cheated". It kind of made me a little upset.
What are your thoughts?
If someone had surgery to help lose weight should they give advise on weight loss to others?
Was i wrong? Did she cheat?
I don't think it's cheating, but I also don't think the dietary advice would be necessarily applicable to gen pop...
From what I know of it, surgery is basically a last resort for people who are morbidly obsese and at great health risk...as far as I know you can't just walk in with 50 Lbs to lose and say, "hey...I'm lazy...I want this surgery." From what I've seen, this is reserved generally for people with hundreds of pounds they need to lose and/or are in fairly immediate danger health wise.
They have to first lose weight...and quickly, so they eat a supervised VLCD to get to surgery weight. What they do here isn't going to be safe, healthy, or generally applicable to the general population needing to lose some weight...but it doesn't have anything to do with cheating.
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Gastric bypass .. I'm sure is no picnic and takes a lot of work and discipline that most of us can't even relate too. However.. i would also suggest that someone with a lap band or bypass not give advice to others who are losing through diet and exercise.
It is like a person with inherited wealth telling a self made person how to make and invest money.3 -
Thank you all. There was a lot if informative and honest answers, with no disrespect included. I guess there is more than one way of looking at a situation and I may have been too quick to defend one person without understanding where the other person was coming from
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I agree that it isn't cheating, but I do agree with some others that their dietary advice on losing may not be applicable to everyone else, nor do I think that personal (n=1) advice on medical issues that resolved from WLS is as valid either.
I do however believe that these people should give their opinions (on weight loss or nutrition) but they should pair it with the disclaimer that they've had WLS.0 -
I agree that it isn't cheating, but I do agree with some others that their dietary advice on losing may not be applicable to everyone else, nor do I think that personal (n=1) advice on medical issues that resolved from WLS is as valid either.
I do however believe that these people should give their opinions (on weight loss or nutrition) but they should pair it with the disclaimer that they've had WLS.
Makes sense.0 -
Hi - five months post-op on gastric sleeve here chiming in. Did I cheat? Yes, I cheated death. The end.
To address the specific questions -
Overall, the level/quality of nutritional courses that each of us go through before surgery varies widely. Some people wind up going through more coursework than the average MD (which is sad, but true). Some get none at all (like me). Whether or not we are 'qualified' to be giving nutritional advice has little to do with whether we've had surgery, there's as much bad information given to us as there is to anyone else on the internet.
I'd trust the advice if it could be supported with sound medical research and science, and distrust it if it was illogical, promised 'quick results' or 'low effort', or seemed to rely on quack science or dubious supplements. But I'd evaluate the advice on those criteria, not on whether the person had bariatric surgery any more than I would if they'd had any other type of surgery.
And, a person who has bariatric surgery to help with weight loss is no more 'cheating' than a person who seeks medical help for any other physical or psychiatric issue. I don't tell people with depression to just cheer up and skip their SSRI drugs either.9 -
Gastric surgery is totally cheating! Just like me taking my epilepsy medication is cheating! Life is a game and the rules say we are not allowed any medical interventions, otherwise we forfeit errr .... what do we win again?
In all seriousness, some people see it as a short cut but it's really not. Fortunately I've not been that big, but having my stomach chopped up and my enjoyment of food ruined for life? No thanks.3 -
I guess I'm curious on why people choose this surgery. Why is it harder for them to lose weight than the rest of us doing the calories in/out way?
I'm struggling to find the words here, and lately i'm in constant fear of offending someone... Everyone here goes on and on about cico, eat less than you burn and you will lose weight, why does this not work for the people who take the surgery route?2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I guess I'm curious on why people choose this surgery. Why is it harder for them to lose weight than the rest of us doing the calories in/out way?
I'm struggling to find the words here, and lately i'm in constant fear of offending someone... Everyone here goes on and on about cico, eat less than you burn and you will lose weight, why does this not work for the people who take the surgery route?
Surgery has does not mess with hormones as much as regular weight loss does, so in general the maintenance prognosis is better in addition to weight loss being faster. Some also have diabetes, which is resolved in several cases shortly after the surgery for some reason even before significant weight loss. There are several reasons to choose surgery, so in some cases the risks and side effects are an acceptable tradeoff for the sometimes immediate life saving benefits.2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I guess I'm curious on why people choose this surgery. Why is it harder for them to lose weight than the rest of us doing the calories in/out way?
I'm struggling to find the words here, and lately i'm in constant fear of offending someone... Everyone here goes on and on about cico, eat less than you burn and you will lose weight, why does this not work for the people who take the surgery route?
As is often said, reducing calories is simple but not easy. Obviously CICO applies to people who undergo WLS, but their reasons for not being able to adhere to a calorie-restricted diet without aid are personal and will vary. Others probably could succeed at weight loss without surgery, but it's more important to lose weight as fast as possible.
I know three people who have had WLS, and they were all extremely obese. Like, easily 200 lbs to lose. It was important to lose weight quickly - the likelihood of severe medical complications or death was there. Regular dieting takes patience and practice, and these people weren't in places where they had the luxury to get good at weight loss. Then there's the psychological element - when you have that much to lose, it can seem impossible. It can seem like you have no hope, especially if you ever have a bad week or two with no movement on the scale. WLS helps some people overcome that psychological hurdle and realize that yes, they CAN do this, and it helps empower them to take control.
Of these three people, 2 have lost the weight and been successful at maintenance. One lost about 100 lbs and stalled out with a lot of weight left to lose. He's maintained at that point, but he hasn't really been "successful" as he's not maintaining a healthy weight. WLS can only get you so far, and you either will or won't do the rest yourself.2 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I guess I'm curious on why people choose this surgery. Why is it harder for them to lose weight than the rest of us doing the calories in/out way?
I'm struggling to find the words here, and lately i'm in constant fear of offending someone... Everyone here goes on and on about cico, eat less than you burn and you will lose weight, why does this not work for the people who take the surgery route?
Speaking purely for myself as someone who has had the surgery, I'm not offended by questions like this as long as the person genuinely seems to want to understand. I've had people come off as 'Why were you too lazy to diet for real?' - and that's just obnoxious.
CICO does absolutely apply to me, and I track my food and macro nutrition every bit as carefully as I do now six months out on surgery as I did before. I likely will for the rest of my life, but at least now I'm living again.
As to why it's harder? I wish I had a good answer. At my highest I was about 125lbs over my healthy weight. The walk from the train station to my office (<1mile) was enough to leave me exhausted and in pain. I LOVED to be active, but had finally gotten to the point where everything hurt and was frankly more of a danger to me than help.
For calories, I tried a number of different plans - from keto, to low-fat, to VLCD/PSMF. I lost my 20s to dieting. I'd lose weight for the first two months, and then just...nothing. No change in size, no scale movement. Just constant exhaustion and neurosis over food. I'd had my thyroid tested, tested for PCOS - every Dr I saw swore nothing was wrong with me even though I could produce meticulously honest food diaries showing a 1,200-1,500 calorie a day diet for months on end. At one point, I had a Dr tell me my 1,500 calorie/day diet was too much, even after I told him I was training for a triathlon.
Finally it was surgery, or resign myself to dying by inches - and I wanted to live. I wish 'just eat less and move more' had worked - but it didn't. I don't know if I had a medical condition that wasn't diagnosed properly, if the surgery reset my gut biome enough to help or something else, but it worked. Even now, I lose slower than I should based on my caloric intake and activity levels, but I am successfully losing.7 -
Christine_72 wrote: »I guess I'm curious on why people choose this surgery. Why is it harder for them to lose weight than the rest of us doing the calories in/out way?
I'm struggling to find the words here, and lately i'm in constant fear of offending someone... Everyone here goes on and on about cico, eat less than you burn and you will lose weight, why does this not work for the people who take the surgery route?
I know several people who have had wls in one form or the other. Interestingly-the men I know have kept off the weight, even several years into it, while all the women I know who have had surgery have gained the weight back, and more. I wonder what the statistics for success between men and women are? A bunny trail but kind of interesting to think about
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I had weight loss surgery 9 years ago I was 284 lbs, since then I have had 2 kids and have maintained a !50+ weight loss. It was NOT cheating. For me I had so many co-morbidities that I needed to do something that was drastic. From there I have pursued a certification as a PERSONAL TRAINER. How dare anyone put anyone down for making necessary lifestyle changes to become a better, healthier version of themself. For me, WLS saved my life and has allowed me to live a fuller and happier life because I AM HEALTHY. I WAS WORHT IT, I AM STILL WORTH IT!!!!!!3
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ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Anvil_Head wrote: »ThatUserNameIsAllReadyTaken wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Weight loss advice (medical advice) from other than a medical professional should be taken with a grain truckload of salt.
that is hilarious given some of the worst advice on this site usually starts with "my doctor/nutritionist/dietitian/ etc told me..."
I honestly feel that sometimes people just add that "my doctor/nutritionist/dietitian/etc..... told me such and such" in an effort to validate what advice they are offering. If medical professionals truly offer some of the really bad advice I see floating around I think the whole medical profession has to be in serious trouble.
Do you realize how little training doctors actually get in nutrition?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/
Absolutely I do. Which why I say if they are the source of some of this bad advice the medical profession is in trouble. However they are surely knowledgeable enough to know better than to recommend fad diets and the like. One would hope at least.
Studying for my personal training exam. That was in the 1st chapter. Doctors get limited to NO fitness training!0 -
DIETS don't work. It's healthy lifestyle changes that are what makes healthy bodies.1
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DIETS don't work. It's healthy lifestyle changes that are what makes healthy bodies.
Dieting (defined as "reducing calories consumed to regularly achieve a deficit") absolutely worked for me. I lost over 40 pounds and have maintained. The only "lifestyle change" I made was to be aware of my calories in/calories out.
How do you define "diet"?1 -
The diet associated with gastric bypass is harder than any I've used to lose weight. Surgery is hard and recovery is hard. I personally do not think gastric bypass is easier than regular dieting and therefore is not cheating.
A lot of people regain weight after losing it, so I think that can be taken out of the equation.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »DIETS don't work. It's healthy lifestyle changes that are what makes healthy bodies.
Dieting (defined as "reducing calories consumed to regularly achieve a deficit") absolutely worked for me. I lost over 40 pounds and have maintained. The only "lifestyle change" I made was to be aware of my calories in/calories out.
How do you define "diet"?
She probably meant the conventional way people understand "diet", that is a set of rigid rules or meal plan meant to be temporarily used to drop weight with no regard to long term maintenance.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »DIETS don't work. It's healthy lifestyle changes that are what makes healthy bodies.
Dieting (defined as "reducing calories consumed to regularly achieve a deficit") absolutely worked for me. I lost over 40 pounds and have maintained. The only "lifestyle change" I made was to be aware of my calories in/calories out.
How do you define "diet"?
She probably meant the conventional way people understand "diet", that is a set of rigid rules or meal plan meant to be temporarily used to drop weight with no regard to long term maintenance.
That could be -- I just wanted to point out that a "lifestyle change" isn't always necessary. I didn't really change anything except limiting calories (which is one of the meanings of "diet," at least as I understand it).1
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