Pushup form with kyphotic upper back and forward head posture
Aaron_K123
Posts: 7,122 Member
My question is regards to how to achieve proper form with pushups if you have a curved spine from poor posture. From years of poor posture and spending a large amount of my time at a desk I have a very rounded upper back (kyphotic posture) as well as forward head posture.
In an effort to get regular strength exercise in I have been doing pushups and pullups on alternating days. With pushups I focus on not half@ssing any of my reps doing a full ROM where my chest touches and I maintain a plank position. I thought I was doing a good job with that but recently I videotaped myself doing a quick set of pushups and upon review was rather dismayed to see my rounded back and forward head posture was having me go not nearly as far down as I felt I was going largely due to my head being much closer to the floor than it should be in plank position given my curved upper spine.
Looking at my elbows it appears I am hitting 90 degrees at my lowest point so perhaps it is still a full ROM pushup but from the video the form looks poor.
So, is forward head posture and rounded back something that I absolutely have to address first before I can ever do a proper form pushup or is there some sort of form trick or technique I can focus on to make sure I am getting the best range of motion on my reps. Anyone else have this issue and how did you deal with it.
Thanks.
In an effort to get regular strength exercise in I have been doing pushups and pullups on alternating days. With pushups I focus on not half@ssing any of my reps doing a full ROM where my chest touches and I maintain a plank position. I thought I was doing a good job with that but recently I videotaped myself doing a quick set of pushups and upon review was rather dismayed to see my rounded back and forward head posture was having me go not nearly as far down as I felt I was going largely due to my head being much closer to the floor than it should be in plank position given my curved upper spine.
Looking at my elbows it appears I am hitting 90 degrees at my lowest point so perhaps it is still a full ROM pushup but from the video the form looks poor.
So, is forward head posture and rounded back something that I absolutely have to address first before I can ever do a proper form pushup or is there some sort of form trick or technique I can focus on to make sure I am getting the best range of motion on my reps. Anyone else have this issue and how did you deal with it.
Thanks.
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Replies
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Any chance you can post the video?
You also might want to do rows to work your back as well as pull ups.
Can you extend your upper back and draw your head back at all (even when not in a pushup position?) Do you do any drills on a foam roller trying to increase your thoracic mobility?0 -
Put a dirty pair of underwear on the floor under your face. That should keep your head back.
Or place a broomstick on your back, held in place by a belt around your waist. Keep your head pressed against the stick the whole time.. but not by tilting your head back - by extending your upper spine.
By the way, the safe ROM is to stop with elbows at back level. Going deeper than that increases the chance of shoulder injuries.
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It's hard doing a push up w/a hunched/rounded back. I just tried it and it creates a lot of stress around the upper back, shoulders and neck. I think this is actually the form for the "Pushup Plus" variation that is designed to engage your serratus muscles.
I would think that just working on your posture should fix this problem. The old "stand up straight, shoulders back and head up" routine.
Can you stand up straight w/your back, head and butt touching the wall? If not, working on that might help and, if it does, I think you'll experience less tension in your upper back, shoulders and back and will find pushups easier to do.
Good luck!0 -
Any chance you can post the video?
You also might want to do rows to work your back as well as pull ups.
Can you extend your upper back and draw your head back at all (even when not in a pushup position?) Do you do any drills on a foam roller trying to increase your thoracic mobility?
I will try to post a video sure. I should start to try exercises to strengthen and loosen muscles associated with my posture. Was also thinking it might be smart to stop sleeping on a double upped pillow...probably aggrevating the problem.
I don't actually have any back neck or shoulder pain...yet.
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@rybo Here is a video. Its viewed from higher up which kind of makes it look even worse. Also although I felt like I was holding straight seems like my butt might be lower than it should be. Perhaps that was more the issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_A4ZAVYDj0&feature=youtu.be 0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »@rybo Here is a video. Its viewed from higher up which kind of makes it look even worse. Also although I felt like I was holding straight seems like my butt might be lower than it should be. Perhaps that was more the issue.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_A4ZAVYDj0&feature=youtu.be
Your butt is indeed too low.1 -
If your push your heals back and lift your butt, it should help things get more aligned. Also, keeping your glutes/quads engaged can help maintain a solid form.1
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Pulling my head back is kind of an issue given that my back is rounded currently due to poor posture. I am going to work on that but I can't just simply pull my head back. I am suprised my butt is as low as it is in that video, I felt like I was holding a decent plank position but clearly not. If I lift my butt its going to feel like I am sticking it into the air but I suppose if thats where it needs to be to be actually in plank thats what I will have to do. Just tape it and watch it and adjust and tape it and watch and adjust until I get the "feel" for the correct form.0
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What has me scratching my head though is whether its that my butt is low or that my upper back is high (like that I'm arched excessively). If you look at the line from my feet through my calves through my thighs to my butt that looks like a perfect line but after that my back is arched upwards and my head is arched downwards which makes my chest higher than it should be it seems.
I'm concerned that if I just "raise my butt" then my butt will be sticking in the air rather than being in line with my quads as it currently is.0 -
I would have you put your feet up (like on a step stool or on the 1st or 2nd step of a staircase) and try to go lower. This should also help with your face not hitting the ground.
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »What has me scratching my head though is whether its that my butt is low or that my upper back is high (like that I'm arched excessively).
Looks like a little of both. You seem to be pivoting around the lower back as you come up. That can be from weak abs. Do you do ab exercises prior to pushups? If so, stop. 0 -
Well today is pushup day so I will try to be very concious of keeping my quads and core engaged, raise my butt a bit and try to get the top of my chest to touch the ground or come close rather than the bottom of it. Will tape and see what that looks like. I'll probably still have issues with my head position, could try raising my feet but will work on my plank position first.0
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It's also clear that you are short arming the pushups; not lowering yourself so that your elbows go to 90 degrees and your chest touches the floor.
I'm not a trainer, but it seems to me that just raising your butt so that your legs and back are in line and lifting hour head so you're looking straight ahead rather than down towards the ground that is all you need to correct your form.
Have you ever tried to do a pushup starting w/your body FLAT against the floor? If you can do that and maintain the same straight (plank) body position throughout the push up, I think the problem would be solved.0 -
It's also clear that you are short arming the pushups; not lowering yourself so that your elbows go to 90 degrees and your chest touches the floor.
I'm not a trainer, but it seems to me that just raising your butt so that your legs and back are in line and lifting hour head so you're looking straight ahead rather than down towards the ground that is all you need to correct your form.
Have you ever tried to do a pushup starting w/your body FLAT against the floor? If you can do that and maintain the same straight (plank) body position throughout the push up, I think the problem would be solved.
Sadly that IS me lifting my head, as I mentioned i'm pretty kyphotic and have pretty bad forward head posture. I could tilt my chin more so I am looking more forward but that really wouldn't change my position. That rounding in my upper back is what my spine is now, I need to work on it but its not that I am leaning forward that is about as far back as I can bring my head (which is why I need to work on my posture).
The idea of lying flat and then pushing up from there first and trying to lock my body rigid so that when I decend I'm in that form might work I'll have to try that thanks.
When I get home I'm doing another set of 60 so I'll tape some and try to hold better form and post again from there.0 -
Better this time, I think my butt is in the right place and I am more level...my chest also goes down further and I think I'm hitting 90 degrees on my arms. Forward head posture still an issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKg5O13jFKM&feature=youtu.be 0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Better this time, I think my butt is in the right place and I am more level...my chest also goes down further and I think I'm hitting 90 degrees on my arms. Forward head posture still an issue.
Looks a lot better.
Think you should still go lower to touch your chest before rising again but I'm fussy about doing "full" pushups. Purpose of keeping your head up is to use it as a cue to keep your shoulders "back" and chest "out" which keeps your entire body in line. If you look carefully, you'll still notice a little "slouch" in your form because you're still looking down.
But definitely a lot better than before. Congrats!
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Better this time, I think my butt is in the right place and I am more level...my chest also goes down further and I think I'm hitting 90 degrees on my arms. Forward head posture still an issue.
Looks a lot better.
Think you should still go lower to touch your chest before rising again but I'm fussy about doing "full" pushups. Purpose of keeping your head up is to use it as a cue to keep your shoulders "back" and chest "out" which keeps your entire body in line. If you look carefully, you'll still notice a little "slouch" in your form because you're still looking down.
But definitely a lot better than before. Congrats!
Thank you...the idea of starting flat on the floor, placing hands and clenching my core before pushing up and then holding that form to do my reps was helpful. I was touching the ground with my reps but perhaps it was more my gut than my chest...still have a bit of fat to deal with. I've heard mixed opinions on whether it is better to look down, look straight ahead or look about 45 degrees in front of you and it seemed like most form sites suggest the 45 degrees in front. Perhaps with my forward head posture for me it might be better at this point to look straight ahead until I can correct my posture...I can try that. Just don't want to overstrain my neck.0 -
Have you considered physical therapy? Find a PT that specializes in scoliosis /kyphosis.0
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Brandicaloriecountess wrote: »Have you considered physical therapy? Find a PT that specializes in scoliosis /kyphosis.
If I cannot improve it through exercise, stretching and and proper sleep (ie no or thin pillow, neck support) then I would consider it. Its from decades of sitting in front of computers slouched. Does catch up with you. For now though I am going to see if I can work on it on my own going off online guides for improving posture through physical therapeutic exercises and stretches. Thanks.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Better this time, I think my butt is in the right place and I am more level...my chest also goes down further and I think I'm hitting 90 degrees on my arms. Forward head posture still an issue.
Looks a lot better.
Think you should still go lower to touch your chest before rising again but I'm fussy about doing "full" pushups. Purpose of keeping your head up is to use it as a cue to keep your shoulders "back" and chest "out" which keeps your entire body in line. If you look carefully, you'll still notice a little "slouch" in your form because you're still looking down.
But definitely a lot better than before. Congrats!
Thank you...the idea of starting flat on the floor, placing hands and clenching my core before pushing up and then holding that form to do my reps was helpful. I was touching the ground with my reps but perhaps it was more my gut than my chest...still have a bit of fat to deal with. I've heard mixed opinions on whether it is better to look down, look straight ahead or look about 45 degrees in front of you and it seemed like most form sites suggest the 45 degrees in front. Perhaps with my forward head posture for me it might be better at this point to look straight ahead until I can correct my posture...I can try that. Just don't want to overstrain my neck.
Generally, you should look about 6" in front of you. This should allow for proper head position.0 -
One suggestion, find a yoga teacher who specializes in postural yoga (Iyengar in particular); there are specific cues in that practice that tremendously help core engagement as well as postural stability and in the end your push-ups will be better/stronger. Not vinyasa- someone who specializes in alignment. I've seen some amazing things for people with severe postural issues...0
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Looks a lot better! It's going to be difficult to get exact head placement for you given your condition, that last video looked good. I think it's going to be more useful to not go too much either way...looking ahead or more between your hands and just find a head position that is comfortable while you perform the pushups, then deal with your posture directly through other avenues.0
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Better this time, I think my butt is in the right place and I am more level...my chest also goes down further and I think I'm hitting 90 degrees on my arms. Forward head posture still an issue.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKg5O13jFKM&feature=youtu.be
Pick your butt up and tuck your chin in. Think about your chest being the first thing down and the last thing up.
Your back isn't excessively rounded, so you should have no problem getting into the proper positions.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Better this time, I think my butt is in the right place and I am more level...my chest also goes down further and I think I'm hitting 90 degrees on my arms. Forward head posture still an issue.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKg5O13jFKM&feature=youtu.be
Pick your butt up and tuck your chin in. Think about your chest being the first thing down and the last thing up.
Your back isn't excessively rounded, so you should have no problem getting into the proper positions.
Can't help but feel that if I pick up my butt more than that I won't be in line with my lower body I'll be arched. Also have you telling me to tuck my chin while others are telling me to look more forward (ie the opposite). I get that you want your chest to be what is approaching the ground first (as best as you can make it) but if you have a gut and you pick your butt up high enough so that your chest hits before your gut aren't you going to be arching your back in a way that isn't a true plank position?0 -
@Aaron_K123
You head is lifted, but it should be more parallel (Neck in line with the spine); looking 6" out will help you from allowing your head to fall down.. Maybe the below will help.
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Better this time, I think my butt is in the right place and I am more level...my chest also goes down further and I think I'm hitting 90 degrees on my arms. Forward head posture still an issue.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKg5O13jFKM&feature=youtu.be
Pick your butt up and tuck your chin in. Think about your chest being the first thing down and the last thing up.
Your back isn't excessively rounded, so you should have no problem getting into the proper positions.
Can't help but feel that if I pick up my butt more than that I won't be in line with my lower body I'll be arched. Also have you telling me to tuck my chin while others are telling me to look more forward (ie the opposite). I get that you want your chest to be what is approaching the ground first (as best as you can make it) but if you have a gut and you pick your butt up high enough so that your chest hits before your gut aren't you going to be arching your back in a way that isn't a true plank position?
No.
You should be able to touch your nose to the ground without your hips or chest touching - that would be perfect alignment.0 -
Yoga can help correct your posture.
Your head should be in a neutral position so looking towards the floor a few inches in front of you. You appear to be trying to look forward.
Try squeezing your hips to your ribs this will help raise your butt without lifting it too high.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Better this time, I think my butt is in the right place and I am more level...my chest also goes down further and I think I'm hitting 90 degrees on my arms. Forward head posture still an issue.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKg5O13jFKM&feature=youtu.be
Pick your butt up and tuck your chin in. Think about your chest being the first thing down and the last thing up.
Your back isn't excessively rounded, so you should have no problem getting into the proper positions.
Can't help but feel that if I pick up my butt more than that I won't be in line with my lower body I'll be arched. Also have you telling me to tuck my chin while others are telling me to look more forward (ie the opposite). I get that you want your chest to be what is approaching the ground first (as best as you can make it) but if you have a gut and you pick your butt up high enough so that your chest hits before your gut aren't you going to be arching your back in a way that isn't a true plank position?
No.
You should be able to touch your nose to the ground without your hips or chest touching - that would be perfect alignment.
Well yes but at the moment my spine doesn't allow perfect allignment, hence the question about how I should try to compensate for that. I cannot physically pull my head back that far due to a kyphotic upper spine and forward head posture. I know what it should look like, and I know I need to work on my posture. But that will take a while and in the meantime I'd still like to do pushups as best I can because its a great compound exercise.1 -
@Aaron_K123
You head is lifted, but it should be more parallel (Neck in line with the spine); looking 6" out will help you from allowing your head to fall down.. Maybe the below will help.
Well therein lies my problem. With my current postural difficulty I cannot put my neck in line with my spine. If I look down because of the forward head posture my head is considerably lower than my chest and I touch my nose to the ground well before my chest. I'm lifting my head to try to avoid that but I don't want to overextend my neck.0 -
Tell you what, tomorrow when I do another set I will look straight down (it is a more comfortable position anyways) and I'll tape that and see how it looks....but chances are what that is going to do is mean I don't go to 90 degrees with my arms or as low with my chest.0
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