Pushup form with kyphotic upper back and forward head posture
Replies
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I had a lot of issues with my neck because of the same type of posture problems over the years due to a desk job. What helped me quite a bit was incline push ups. I still do standard push ups, but during my cardio sessions I do them inclined on my kitchen counters. I do very high reps (50-100 at a time) while looking forward/up. It helped over time to bring my neck back in line and has reduced the pain I was having. It took months though to notice the change. You can probably achieve the same thing doing regular push ups as well just by making a conscious effort to keep your neck in line with your spine, but because it was easier to do incline push ups (higher reps) it seemed to improve faster. I can do 20-25 regular push ups, and usually do at the end of my daily workout, but during my cross training/regular workout I do somewhere around 200 incline push ups on my counters in between other exercises to keep my heart rate up and stretch my neck and back.
Speaking of Yoga.. another thing that helps is before and after each workout I do press-ups and press-up extensions mainly for my lower back, but it also helps my neck and upper back.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Tell you what, tomorrow when I do another set I will look straight down (it is a more comfortable position anyways) and I'll tape that and see how it looks....but chances are what that is going to do is mean I don't go to 90 degrees with my arms or as low with my chest.
Even if you don't go 90° that is fine... no different than squats. You just have to work within your bodies range. If at some point, you want to get lower, than use pushup bars. This might enable you going 90° since you will start higher.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Better this time, I think my butt is in the right place and I am more level...my chest also goes down further and I think I'm hitting 90 degrees on my arms. Forward head posture still an issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKg5O13jFKM&feature=youtu.be
Pick your butt up and tuck your chin in. Think about your chest being the first thing down and the last thing up.
Your back isn't excessively rounded, so you should have no problem getting into the proper positions.
Can't help but feel that if I pick up my butt more than that I won't be in line with my lower body I'll be arched. Also have you telling me to tuck my chin while others are telling me to look more forward (ie the opposite). I get that you want your chest to be what is approaching the ground first (as best as you can make it) but if you have a gut and you pick your butt up high enough so that your chest hits before your gut aren't you going to be arching your back in a way that isn't a true plank position?
No.
You should be able to touch your nose to the ground without your hips or chest touching - that would be perfect alignment.
Well yes but at the moment my spine doesn't allow perfect allignment, hence the question about how I should try to compensate for that. I cannot physically pull my head back that far due to a kyphotic upper spine and forward head posture. I know what it should look like, and I know I need to work on my posture. But that will take a while and in the meantime I'd still like to do pushups as best I can because its a great compound exercise.
Structurally you're fine. You aren't retracting your scapulas. Instead, they are elevating, giving you a rounded upper back appearance.0 -
Actually I'm impatient, I tried it now. Actually...worked pretty well. I tucked my chin best I could retracting my head which wasn't the most comfortable for me but I could hold it. Decended and my nose was first to touch (although my gut was involved as well) and my chest was close to the ground. It seemed though that my arms were going past parallel so past 90 degrees on my elbows...not sure if that is putting pressure on my shoulders.
I taped it, angle is very different though so hard to compare really also doesn't show my whole body. But can see I'm holding pretty planar and decending evenly. If I raised my butt a bit perhaps my gut wouldn't hit first but I might be arched then.
I'm willing to try anything you all suggest though and continue to refine. Once I get a position that seems to work I will work on maintaining that and building it up as habit in my routinues. I appreciate all of your input and assistance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJFRcK2KubI&feature=youtu.be 0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Tell you what, tomorrow when I do another set I will look straight down (it is a more comfortable position anyways) and I'll tape that and see how it looks....but chances are what that is going to do is mean I don't go to 90 degrees with my arms or as low with my chest.
Even if you don't go 90° that is fine... no different than squats. You just have to work within your bodies range. If at some point, you want to get lower, than use pushup bars. This might enable you going 90° since you will start higher.
Good point...if my only problem is my face hits the ground too soon I could just use pushup bars or dumbells to elevate my front so I can get full range in.0 -
Part of the problem is that my gut is larger than my chest...but I'm working on that ;-)0
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Actually I'm impatient, I tried it now. Actually...worked pretty well. I tucked my chin best I could retracting my head which wasn't the most comfortable for me but I could hold it. Decended and my nose was first to touch (although my gut was involved as well) and my chest was close to the ground. It seemed though that my arms were going past parallel so past 90 degrees on my elbows...not sure if that is putting pressure on my shoulders.
I taped it, angle is very different though so hard to compare really also doesn't show my whole body. But can see I'm holding pretty planar and decending evenly. If I raised my butt a bit perhaps my gut wouldn't hit first but I might be arched then.
I'm willing to try anything you all suggest though and continue to refine. Once I get a position that seems to work I will work on maintaining that and building it up as habit in my routinues. I appreciate all of your input and assistance.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJFRcK2KubI&feature=youtu.be
This looks much better. You might want to experiment and see what it would look like if you raise your butt a bit, but it's overall solid. I found when I pushed my heals back and engaged my core/thighs, it naturally corrected some of the stomach "droop".0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Actually I'm impatient, I tried it now. Actually...worked pretty well. I tucked my chin best I could retracting my head which wasn't the most comfortable for me but I could hold it. Decended and my nose was first to touch (although my gut was involved as well) and my chest was close to the ground. It seemed though that my arms were going past parallel so past 90 degrees on my elbows...not sure if that is putting pressure on my shoulders.
I taped it, angle is very different though so hard to compare really also doesn't show my whole body. But can see I'm holding pretty planar and decending evenly. If I raised my butt a bit perhaps my gut wouldn't hit first but I might be arched then.
I'm willing to try anything you all suggest though and continue to refine. Once I get a position that seems to work I will work on maintaining that and building it up as habit in my routinues. I appreciate all of your input and assistance.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJFRcK2KubI&feature=youtu.be
Much better. You could still do a better job of pulling your scapulas back. Notice how your elbows tilt forward at the bottom? Think of your shoulders going back and down towards your butt.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Actually I'm impatient, I tried it now. Actually...worked pretty well. I tucked my chin best I could retracting my head which wasn't the most comfortable for me but I could hold it. Decended and my nose was first to touch (although my gut was involved as well) and my chest was close to the ground. It seemed though that my arms were going past parallel so past 90 degrees on my elbows...not sure if that is putting pressure on my shoulders.
I taped it, angle is very different though so hard to compare really also doesn't show my whole body. But can see I'm holding pretty planar and decending evenly. If I raised my butt a bit perhaps my gut wouldn't hit first but I might be arched then.
I'm willing to try anything you all suggest though and continue to refine. Once I get a position that seems to work I will work on maintaining that and building it up as habit in my routinues. I appreciate all of your input and assistance.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJFRcK2KubI&feature=youtu.be
This looks much better. You might want to experiment and see what it would look like if you raise your butt a bit, but it's overall solid. I found when I pushed my heals back and engaged my core/thighs, it naturally corrected some of the stomach "droop".
Okay I will try both, thanks.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Actually I'm impatient, I tried it now. Actually...worked pretty well. I tucked my chin best I could retracting my head which wasn't the most comfortable for me but I could hold it. Decended and my nose was first to touch (although my gut was involved as well) and my chest was close to the ground. It seemed though that my arms were going past parallel so past 90 degrees on my elbows...not sure if that is putting pressure on my shoulders.
I taped it, angle is very different though so hard to compare really also doesn't show my whole body. But can see I'm holding pretty planar and decending evenly. If I raised my butt a bit perhaps my gut wouldn't hit first but I might be arched then.
I'm willing to try anything you all suggest though and continue to refine. Once I get a position that seems to work I will work on maintaining that and building it up as habit in my routinues. I appreciate all of your input and assistance.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJFRcK2KubI&feature=youtu.be
Much better. You could still do a better job of pulling your scapulas back. Notice how your elbows tilt forward at the bottom? Think of your shoulders going back and down towards your butt.
Yeah that is from my posture issues I think, will have to work on that throughout my day really starting in how I sit. I can try to pinch them back while decending from plank see if that helps my form.
I'm doing pullups (band assisted) as well to help strengthen my back. Not sure if rows or shrugs would also help with that upper back strength or tighten the muscles up a bit. Was also going to start just doing lower back extensions to help with my seated posture.
If I have time once I lose the excess fat and get a bit leaner (like 12% BF) I might switch to maintain or slight surplus and work on building a bit of muscle, might help as well. Right now I'm in deficit so just looking to strengthen and maintain.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Actually I'm impatient, I tried it now. Actually...worked pretty well. I tucked my chin best I could retracting my head which wasn't the most comfortable for me but I could hold it. Decended and my nose was first to touch (although my gut was involved as well) and my chest was close to the ground. It seemed though that my arms were going past parallel so past 90 degrees on my elbows...not sure if that is putting pressure on my shoulders.
I taped it, angle is very different though so hard to compare really also doesn't show my whole body. But can see I'm holding pretty planar and decending evenly. If I raised my butt a bit perhaps my gut wouldn't hit first but I might be arched then.
I'm willing to try anything you all suggest though and continue to refine. Once I get a position that seems to work I will work on maintaining that and building it up as habit in my routinues. I appreciate all of your input and assistance.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJFRcK2KubI&feature=youtu.be
Much better. You could still do a better job of pulling your scapulas back. Notice how your elbows tilt forward at the bottom? Think of your shoulders going back and down towards your butt.
Yeah that is from my posture issues I think, will have to work on that throughout my day really starting in how I sit. I can try to pinch them back while decending from plank see if that helps my form.
I'm doing pullups (band assisted) as well to help strengthen my back. Not sure if rows or shrugs would also help with that upper back strength or tighten the muscles up a bit. Was also going to start just doing lower back extensions to help with my seated posture.
If I have time once I lose the excess fat and get a bit leaner (like 12% BF) I might switch to maintain or slight surplus and work on building a bit of muscle, might help as well. Right now I'm in deficit so just looking to strengthen and maintain.
For most people, pull ups reinforce poor posture. I would stick with horizontal pulling motions for now.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Actually I'm impatient, I tried it now. Actually...worked pretty well. I tucked my chin best I could retracting my head which wasn't the most comfortable for me but I could hold it. Decended and my nose was first to touch (although my gut was involved as well) and my chest was close to the ground. It seemed though that my arms were going past parallel so past 90 degrees on my elbows...not sure if that is putting pressure on my shoulders.
I taped it, angle is very different though so hard to compare really also doesn't show my whole body. But can see I'm holding pretty planar and decending evenly. If I raised my butt a bit perhaps my gut wouldn't hit first but I might be arched then.
I'm willing to try anything you all suggest though and continue to refine. Once I get a position that seems to work I will work on maintaining that and building it up as habit in my routinues. I appreciate all of your input and assistance.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJFRcK2KubI&feature=youtu.be
Much better. You could still do a better job of pulling your scapulas back. Notice how your elbows tilt forward at the bottom? Think of your shoulders going back and down towards your butt.
Yeah that is from my posture issues I think, will have to work on that throughout my day really starting in how I sit. I can try to pinch them back while decending from plank see if that helps my form.
I'm doing pullups (band assisted) as well to help strengthen my back. Not sure if rows or shrugs would also help with that upper back strength or tighten the muscles up a bit. Was also going to start just doing lower back extensions to help with my seated posture.
If I have time once I lose the excess fat and get a bit leaner (like 12% BF) I might switch to maintain or slight surplus and work on building a bit of muscle, might help as well. Right now I'm in deficit so just looking to strengthen and maintain.
For most people, pull ups reinforce poor posture. I would stick with horizontal pulling motions for now.
Basically movements that include scapular retraction like bent-over rows?0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Actually I'm impatient, I tried it now. Actually...worked pretty well. I tucked my chin best I could retracting my head which wasn't the most comfortable for me but I could hold it. Decended and my nose was first to touch (although my gut was involved as well) and my chest was close to the ground. It seemed though that my arms were going past parallel so past 90 degrees on my elbows...not sure if that is putting pressure on my shoulders.
I taped it, angle is very different though so hard to compare really also doesn't show my whole body. But can see I'm holding pretty planar and decending evenly. If I raised my butt a bit perhaps my gut wouldn't hit first but I might be arched then.
I'm willing to try anything you all suggest though and continue to refine. Once I get a position that seems to work I will work on maintaining that and building it up as habit in my routinues. I appreciate all of your input and assistance.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJFRcK2KubI&feature=youtu.be
Much better. You could still do a better job of pulling your scapulas back. Notice how your elbows tilt forward at the bottom? Think of your shoulders going back and down towards your butt.
Yeah that is from my posture issues I think, will have to work on that throughout my day really starting in how I sit. I can try to pinch them back while decending from plank see if that helps my form.
I'm doing pullups (band assisted) as well to help strengthen my back. Not sure if rows or shrugs would also help with that upper back strength or tighten the muscles up a bit. Was also going to start just doing lower back extensions to help with my seated posture.
If I have time once I lose the excess fat and get a bit leaner (like 12% BF) I might switch to maintain or slight surplus and work on building a bit of muscle, might help as well. Right now I'm in deficit so just looking to strengthen and maintain.
For most people, pull ups reinforce poor posture. I would stick with horizontal pulling motions for now.
Basically movements that include scapular retraction like bent-over rows?
Chest supported rows
WTYs
Banded Ws ("no money")
DB/KB upright rows
Bent over row
etc.
etc.
etc.0 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Actually I'm impatient, I tried it now. Actually...worked pretty well. I tucked my chin best I could retracting my head which wasn't the most comfortable for me but I could hold it. Decended and my nose was first to touch (although my gut was involved as well) and my chest was close to the ground. It seemed though that my arms were going past parallel so past 90 degrees on my elbows...not sure if that is putting pressure on my shoulders.
I taped it, angle is very different though so hard to compare really also doesn't show my whole body. But can see I'm holding pretty planar and decending evenly. If I raised my butt a bit perhaps my gut wouldn't hit first but I might be arched then.
I'm willing to try anything you all suggest though and continue to refine. Once I get a position that seems to work I will work on maintaining that and building it up as habit in my routinues. I appreciate all of your input and assistance.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJFRcK2KubI&feature=youtu.be
Much better. You could still do a better job of pulling your scapulas back. Notice how your elbows tilt forward at the bottom? Think of your shoulders going back and down towards your butt.
Yeah that is from my posture issues I think, will have to work on that throughout my day really starting in how I sit. I can try to pinch them back while decending from plank see if that helps my form.
I'm doing pullups (band assisted) as well to help strengthen my back. Not sure if rows or shrugs would also help with that upper back strength or tighten the muscles up a bit. Was also going to start just doing lower back extensions to help with my seated posture.
If I have time once I lose the excess fat and get a bit leaner (like 12% BF) I might switch to maintain or slight surplus and work on building a bit of muscle, might help as well. Right now I'm in deficit so just looking to strengthen and maintain.
For most people, pull ups reinforce poor posture. I would stick with horizontal pulling motions for now.
Basically movements that include scapular retraction like bent-over rows?
Bow pose from yoga is good, Bow and Cobra and Sphinx, you need to build up muscle and flexibility in the back and front of your core, not just the front.0 -
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Yeah I was going to do some lower back work on the floor with scapular retraction which is basically cobra or Sphinx. Tighten the muscles in my back, loosen the muscles in my chest to draw my shoulders further back.0
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I'm not weak but I'm not strong either, I'm sort of middling (which for now I'm okay with). Just want to lose the excess fat, maintain or slightly improve my strength while in caloric deficit, and work on flexibility and posture.
If I hit my fat targets and still have time in my days I may consider attempting a bulk to add a bit of muscle or some real strength but I'd be quite happy with just some improvements to my posture.0 -
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@JonDrees @psulemon @rybo @sgt1372 Hey all, wanted to thank everyone for their helpful advice. I've been working on both my posture and my form taking into account a lot of what you all said. Here is what I look like doing my sets currently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TILcq0BBTG8&feature=youtu.be
Curious to know what you think. For me looks like my body is very straight now and uniform in movement which is good. My head is still carried pretty far forward due to my forward head posture and thats going to take a while to correct, but overall think it looks good now.
So now what about hand placement and elbows?0 -
Looks good. Still think you need to lift your head and can't tell if you're touching your chest on the floor at the bottom BUT your body is a straight plank and your elbows are at 90 degrees at the bottom and your hand position is correct because they create the outline of an arrow in relation to the top of your head (as they should).
So, I say, great job!!!
Now get busy doing some pushups. I've been doing 50-150/day for the past 3 months, especially declines which really work the upper chest. So, don't forget to try different variationd and hand positions after you get bored doing standard plank pushups.0 -
Yea that looks a lot better. Now start working military pushups
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Looks good. Still think you need to lift your head and can't tell if you're touching your chest on the floor at the bottom BUT your body is a straight plank and your elbows are at 90 degrees at the bottom and your hand position is correct because they create the outline of an arrow in relation to the top of your head (as they should).
So, I say, great job!!!
Now get busy doing some pushups. I've been doing 50-150/day for the past 3 months, especially declines which really work the upper chest. So, don't forget to try different variationd and hand positions after you get bored doing standard plank pushups.
Chest comes close to touching but not quite. Not sure you'd want to actually touch that'd be pretty low. My head is where it is due to posture issues. Can add in varients, close hand position military style triceps pushups are still a bear for me which means I should practice them. Right now can only do about 25 standard, probably less than 10 close-hand. With 1 minute rest between sets I can do about 50 standard over 5 sets.0 -
Ok, I'm a family practice doc turned SAHM, so I've been out of medicine for a while but you may want to look into Scheuermann's kyphosis. Here's an article that describes it. http://umm.edu/programs/spine/health/guides/scheuermanns-kyphosis
If you don't have that, and the reason for your kyphosis is truly your desk job, then tat is due to muscle binding in your chest and clavicular area. You need to see a good physical therapist to teach you proper stretching for this. You should be able to lay flat on the floor on your back and have the back of your shoulders and arms resting on the ground with your arms up bent at 90 degrees at the elbows. My guess is that would be very hard for you.
Go see your family doctor or internist for evaluation and look into Scheuermann's. You don't look very old. I'd be really surprised if a desk job has made you that kyphotic.0 -
ccjlgrider wrote: »Ok, I'm a family practice doc turned SAHM, so I've been out of medicine for a while but you may want to look into Scheuermann's kyphosis. Here's an article that describes it. http://umm.edu/programs/spine/health/guides/scheuermanns-kyphosis
If you don't have that, and the reason for your kyphosis is truly your desk job, then tat is due to muscle binding in your chest and clavicular area. You need to see a good physical therapist to teach you proper stretching for this. You should be able to lay flat on the floor on your back and have the back of your shoulders and arms resting on the ground with your arms up bent at 90 degrees at the elbows. My guess is that would be very hard for you.
Go see your family doctor or internist for evaluation and look into Scheuermann's. You don't look very old. I'd be really surprised if a desk job has made you that kyphotic.
Just out of curiosity how old do you think I am?0 -
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »Yeah I was going to do some lower back work on the floor with scapular retraction which is basically cobra or Sphinx. Tighten the muscles in my back, loosen the muscles in my chest to draw my shoulders further back.
I had much of the same issues..basically I did all of this stuff in PT...
http://www.stylecraze.com/articles/best-exercises-to-improve-neck-posture/
I also did rows and face pulls to pull my shoulders back both straight arm and traditional...0 -
ccjlgrider wrote: »
Yeah you are spot on actually, I'm 37. That said I would think that at 37 I'd have had something like 25 years to develop poor posture from sitting at desks which to me sounds like plenty of time.0 -
Ya, but you just don't see a lot of 37 year olds walking around who are kyphotic to that degree from desk jobs. I mean, at 37 people are still pretty flexible. You start to see it more about mid-late 40's and 50's on up.
I'm not saying it's impossible. Definitely possible. But I just don't see a lot of kyphotic 30 somethings out there.
I certainly hope that's what it is because that's an easy fix!!0
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