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Fitbit: employer penalties for not using.
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born_of_fire74 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I'm a cyclist. I like to ride 10 to 15 miles after work, it helps me unwind, gets me outdoors, and I enjoy it. My watch doesn't count steps when I'm on the bike.
I have a friend who games Pokémon Go by putting his phone on a turntable to fool the thing into thinking he is walking around. Maybe not quite the same but, as the piano playing music teacher mentioned earlier in the thread shows, these trackers can be tricked. What's to stop you from strapping the thing to your ankle instead of your wrist when you're biking? Does it have to go on your wrist for a pulse interaction or some such that would not work on your ankle?
Just curious.
I don't know how that's working for him since PoGo computes distance walked using GPS. I tried pacing in our hallway to hatch eggs. It didn't work.2 -
How bizarre. I've never owned or used a tracker nor do I intend to.1
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Not an issue my my employer.pasandoval wrote: »So maybe bring it up with the employer? Talk through the problem and see if it can be solved?
But it seems to be a growing trend.
Yet these trackers are useless, in part because they are inaccurate.
The high end trackers that provide active athletes with good data to help them train are not the ones that employers are handing out.
It is my opinion that employer wellness director are falling to the fraud presented by slick salesmen.
Granted there was a flurry of articles about companies adopting this back in 2014 but very few articles that even reference it in 2016.
My guess is that eventually employers will realize they were bamboozled.
Or maybe I'm just full of 5#i7
That is a rather big jump. Yes, they are not perfectly accurate, and yes things can throw them off, but, that does not make they useless. For that matter, for most people they are reasonably accurate to track activity.5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I'm a cyclist. I like to ride 10 to 15 miles after work, it helps me unwind, gets me outdoors, and I enjoy it. My watch doesn't count steps when I'm on the bike.
I have a friend who games Pokémon Go by putting his phone on a turntable to fool the thing into thinking he is walking around. Maybe not quite the same but, as the piano playing music teacher mentioned earlier in the thread shows, these trackers can be tricked. What's to stop you from strapping the thing to your ankle instead of your wrist when you're biking? Does it have to go on your wrist for a pulse interaction or some such that would not work on your ankle?
Just curious.
I don't know how that's working for him since PoGo computes distance walked using GPS. I tried pacing in our hallway to hatch eggs. It didn't work.
Well, I don't personally play Pokemon Go so I don't know either. He's a good friend and never given me a reason to suspect his veracity in the past. I could ask him but I prolly won't *shrug* it's not important.
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There is a waterproof Fitbit now (Fitbit Flex 2).Given that trackers are inaccurate, only track wrist movement and many other flaws, I'm surprised that many employers have started penalizing employees for not using these.
None of them work for swimming. They don't track weight lifting or spinning class (my main forms of exercise due to arthritis). The IR HRM doesn't work well for activities other than steady state. And if you start a lot they have even now trouble.
I would think that these penalties leave employers open to potentially large ADA lawsuits.
And yes offering a 'discount' for using it is the same as penalizing an employee for not using a company issued tracker.
I don't have any such mandate from an employer. I don't need one to swim as much as I do.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Given that trackers are inaccurate, only track wrist movement and many other flaws, I'm surprised that many employers have started penalizing employees for not using these.
None of them work for swimming. They don't track weight lifting or spinning class (my main forms of exercise due to arthritis). The IR HRM doesn't work well for activities other than steady state. And if you start a lot they have even now trouble.
I would think that these penalties leave employers open to potentially large ADA lawsuits.
And yes offering a 'discount' for using it is the same as penalizing an employee for not using a company issued tracker.
I don't have any such mandate from an employer. I don't need one to swim as much as I do.
I've used a Polar for years to track my HR while swimming and it works great. I also just upgraded my tracker to the Fitbit Flex 2, which is waterproof.2 -
born_of_fire74 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I'm a cyclist. I like to ride 10 to 15 miles after work, it helps me unwind, gets me outdoors, and I enjoy it. My watch doesn't count steps when I'm on the bike.
I have a friend who games Pokémon Go by putting his phone on a turntable to fool the thing into thinking he is walking around. Maybe not quite the same but, as the piano playing music teacher mentioned earlier in the thread shows, these trackers can be tricked. What's to stop you from strapping the thing to your ankle instead of your wrist when you're biking? Does it have to go on your wrist for a pulse interaction or some such that would not work on your ankle?
Just curious.
Only the fact that I'd like to walk again if I crash.
I'm sure a lot of people do that. My watch is metal and sapphire, it's heavy. There are a lot of bones in my ankle. You pick up a lot of speed coming down hills. There's traffic because I live in a city. Add all these things up and I feel the risk is unacceptable.
Also the watch can read your pulse at the wrist, but that's a very minor thing compared my safety.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »born_of_fire74 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I'm a cyclist. I like to ride 10 to 15 miles after work, it helps me unwind, gets me outdoors, and I enjoy it. My watch doesn't count steps when I'm on the bike.
I have a friend who games Pokémon Go by putting his phone on a turntable to fool the thing into thinking he is walking around. Maybe not quite the same but, as the piano playing music teacher mentioned earlier in the thread shows, these trackers can be tricked. What's to stop you from strapping the thing to your ankle instead of your wrist when you're biking? Does it have to go on your wrist for a pulse interaction or some such that would not work on your ankle?
Just curious.
I don't know how that's working for him since PoGo computes distance walked using GPS. I tried pacing in our hallway to hatch eggs. It didn't work.
It's probably just normal GPS jitter.0 -
Given that trackers are inaccurate, only track wrist movement and many other flaws, I'm surprised that many employers have started penalizing employees for not using these.
No one's being penalized, and as someone else mentioned, the ACA explicitly forbids it.
This thread is built on a false assumption. (But it is fun to see people whining about "nanny state!!1!" when in fact the law specifically forbids the "nanny" part of OP's incorrect assumption.)
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xmichaelyx wrote: »Given that trackers are inaccurate, only track wrist movement and many other flaws, I'm surprised that many employers have started penalizing employees for not using these.
No one's being penalized, and as someone else mentioned, the ACA explicitly forbids it.
This thread is built on a false assumption. (But it is fun to see people whining about "nanny state!!1!" when in fact the law specifically forbids the "nanny" part of OP's incorrect assumption.)
I agree the ACA says no penalties, but believe many people feel the reward that is forgone by not doing whatever action is required to get the reward is just semantics for a penalty.
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born_of_fire74 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I'm a cyclist. I like to ride 10 to 15 miles after work, it helps me unwind, gets me outdoors, and I enjoy it. My watch doesn't count steps when I'm on the bike.
I have a friend who games Pokémon Go by putting his phone on a turntable to fool the thing into thinking he is walking around. Maybe not quite the same but, as the piano playing music teacher mentioned earlier in the thread shows, these trackers can be tricked. What's to stop you from strapping the thing to your ankle instead of your wrist when you're biking? Does it have to go on your wrist for a pulse interaction or some such that would not work on your ankle?
Just curious.
Weird that works, considering pokemon go uses distance in a line GPS*, and the margin of error is larger than a turntable.
*It takes point A, then waits some time, and gets point B. It draws a straight line and calculates the distance. I believe the time is 1 minute. So if you are in relatively the same location between measurements A and B, then 0 distance is traveled. Like wise, if A and B are too far apart, it doesn't measure distance. People run into trouble because they walk in a loop, and are only a few feet from where they started after the time elapses.1 -
This is what GPS looks like when you're moving versus when you stop. Remember that GPS is accurate to about 10 feet under the best of circumstances, much worse indoors near a window. That means you can ask it where you are twice in a row and it can give you different answers, several feet apart, sometimes more. Leave it running a while and it can accumulate a lot of false distance.
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I notice I get about a hundred "steps" washing my hair in the morning with my vivofit 21
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xmichaelyx wrote: »Given that trackers are inaccurate, only track wrist movement and many other flaws, I'm surprised that many employers have started penalizing employees for not using these.
No one's being penalized, and as someone else mentioned, the ACA explicitly forbids it.
This thread is built on a false assumption. (But it is fun to see people whining about "nanny state!!1!" when in fact the law specifically forbids the "nanny" part of OP's incorrect assumption.)
Wrong. The ACA explicitly PERMITS penalizing.
(thanks @lemurcat12 )For example, if the total cost for self-only coverage for the plan in which the employee is enrolled is $6,000 annually, the employer can reward the employee up to $1,800 for participating in the wellness program and/or for achieving certain health outcomes (or penalize the employee up to the same amount for not participating and/or failing to meet health outcomes)2 -
born_of_fire74 wrote: »NorthCascades wrote: »I'm a cyclist. I like to ride 10 to 15 miles after work, it helps me unwind, gets me outdoors, and I enjoy it. My watch doesn't count steps when I'm on the bike.
I have a friend who games Pokémon Go by putting his phone on a turntable to fool the thing into thinking he is walking around. Maybe not quite the same but, as the piano playing music teacher mentioned earlier in the thread shows, these trackers can be tricked. What's to stop you from strapping the thing to your ankle instead of your wrist when you're biking? Does it have to go on your wrist for a pulse interaction or some such that would not work on your ankle?
Just curious.
I bought a tiny velcro pouch on Amazon to attach to my undergarment during the summer so I don't get a tan line. I have a regular FitBit.0 -
The music teacher at the local high school has been winning the daily step counts. It turns out playing the piano was wracking up HUGE numbers of steps.
These things can be gamed.
My brother rode his motorcycle 50ish miles wearing his and got 250k steps. Umm, no. But his employer doesn't have anything to do with it, so it was just a funny thing. He takes it off when he rides now.
My employer pays me $25/month for logging my goal number of steps. I always reach my goal and then some in addition to my weight lifting and yoga 3-5 days/week.1 -
Ilovepeppers wrote: »I didn't even know this was a thing, what are the incentives/discounts towards?
I get $25 added to my second paycheck each month, but some employers give a discount on your health insurance premiums.0 -
My employer gives 50$ per week if you reach 10,000 steps each week. You have to reach the 10,000 steps two weeks in a row..
But this is only steps.. a person can clearly use the device for all other health aspects that does not cost them one thing.. and there is no penalty, no mass notice that goes out letting everyone know you sucked that week..
Personally I have seen marked changes in office social activities, I have seen a marked difference in "healthy eating", etc.. I see this as a win win..
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My employer gives 50$ per week if you reach 10,000 steps each week. You have to reach the 10,000 steps two weeks in a row..
But this is only steps.. a person can clearly use the device for all other health aspects that does not cost them one thing.. and there is no penalty, no mass notice that goes out letting everyone know you sucked that week..
Personally I have seen marked changes in office social activities, I have seen a marked difference in "healthy eating", etc.. I see this as a win win..
10,000 a week total, or 10,000 each day for an entire week?
The latter sounds more reasonable, and that is a very sweet deal to get $50. We get $40/month deducted from insurance expenses for a wide variety of things; working out or walking is a point a day; on-line tutorials over an extended period of time are a certain number of points (everything from learning about a Mediterranean diet to yoga to developing your core), and a physical exam is 120 points. We have to earn 120 points a quarter. It's the easiest thing in the world and you would be a fool not to take advantage of it.0 -
We have a program at work (third party paid for by my employer) that offers a financial incentive for earning quarterly points by engaging in healthy behaviors (mostly self-reported but I think they're mostly trying to raise awareness). You can earn $250 a year in increments, and there are so many ways to earn points you really only have to log in daily, check off "healthy habits" cards, self-report nightly hours of sleep, look at a recipe card - that kind of thing. As long as you check in each day you're pretty much guaranteed the money.
The funniest bit was the first quarter where they did a huge corporate - sponsored step challange where you could hook up your step counter, with a cap of 30,000 steps a day per person. Teams were made up of 5 people with the team with the highest step count at the end the winner. There was no money involved, just the glory and some extra points that nobody needed. I bet everyone reading this can see the train wreck just around the bend; unfortunately, people who should have known better never saw it coming. The top couple of dozen teams reported 30,000 step per person every single day. The comments section blew up along the lines of those threads on the fitbit site titled "HOW CAN ANYONE DO X NUMBER OF STEPS A DAY???" Names were named, formulas for number of steps possible in a day were thrown around, people who knew people reporting 30,000 steps a day posted to verify that they had treadmill desks which led to more posting about how to get the fitbit to record bogus steps. We all quit posting encouraging messages to our friends to avoid getting swept away in the controversy. It was HILARIOUS! In the end they had a bunch of teams tied for first place so they all got awarded the extra points, the comments were immediately deleted and the rest of us went back to struggling for our 10,000 and posting encouraging comments.
I have to say I was embarrassed by how little money it took to manipulate me into actually choosing to move more and improve some of my less healthy habits...
Note: I want to make it clear I have no opinion on the number of steps possible in a day. Please don't hurt me.
Edit: addressing the subject of this thread. I'm firmly against an employer penalizing employees through health benefits for being unhealthy or not participating in company sponsored health initiatives. I'm all in favor of rewarding employees for participating in programs aimed at improving key health markers (weight management, smoking cessation, etc.) as long as the program allows all employees the chance to achieve the reward. That means creating alternatives for employees who are physically limited, or whose jobs don't allow them to fulfill the requirements (I can't wear my fitbit on the job for instance, so a reward based solely on steps wouldn't work for me). The best programs in my opinion reward employees for taking advantage of company provided health resources such as a free consultation with an RD, a free health screening, or other types of support.0
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