protein HELP PLEASE

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  • onsickmom
    onsickmom Posts: 212 Member
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    That chart is foreign to me....lol...Looks so official.. Factual....I like it...I'm not afraid of carbs from whole foods...Just don't want processed stuff if I can help it....Thanks for posting..
  • Spliner1969
    Spliner1969 Posts: 3,233 Member
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    onsickmom wrote: »
    Thank you spliner1969

    I started 120 lbs overweight. I could barely walk a quarter mile (so I would do 1/4 mile, rest, another 1/4 mile, etc. until I had done 2 miles a day), and even managed to hurt myself walking too much last year, but I healed and went right back at it. Set your mind to it and next year you'll be in much better shape. Even when I could not stand another minute on my M5 (it's a glorified stair stepper/elliptical) and it was too cold to walk, I would walk back and forth through my house. Drives my wife bonkers I just tell her to ignore me. I've walked from my kitchen to my back bedrooms so many times I think I wore out the carpet last winter. Whatever it takes to get the exercise. Even when I hurt my back walking too much and was down for the count, I spent my time laying flat on my back after that for over a month on a cheap weight bench and worked on nothing but upper body and arms until I could walk again. It takes stubbornness, so be stubborn. ;)
  • onsickmom
    onsickmom Posts: 212 Member
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    Spliner1968 can you add me as a friend? I think you will be so inspirational to me...If not no offense taken..I have arthritis too...My new knee is messed up...Theknee cap it rotates on is out of place...Drives me crazy..I struggle to walk but am gonna try and push thru like you...Thank you
  • Spliner1969
    Spliner1969 Posts: 3,233 Member
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    I sent you a request. I am usually active daily, even on rest days to throw around likes for my friends. My right knee was repaired years ago after I bent it sideways 90 degrees in the "easter cookie" incident. We won't go into that but I tore up both sides of that knee. The left knee is from an old injury when I was a kid and it was my best knee for a long time, now the one that was repaired is the better of the two now that arthritis has set in. Osteo Biflex helped my joints/knees, I take it daily now, or the generic version of it. My knees used to hurt so bad in the middle of the night they would wake me up, after taking Osteo Biflex for a long time and losing the weight that no longer happens. But some weeks I need to take an extra rest day to give them a break. Stuff happens when you get old lol.
  • onsickmom
    onsickmom Posts: 212 Member
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    So true to getting older....If only we had a time machine....I would change most of my younger years so I would be better now....I'm on and off internet...Have toddlers of my daughter to care for and a baby..Stress!!!!! Patel biflex....I will have to look into that..Good job on your weight loss!!!!
  • Heartisalonelyhunter
    Heartisalonelyhunter Posts: 786 Member
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    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    Francl27 wrote: »
    Wow so much misinformation in this thread... extra protein converts to glucose... really? SMH. And carbs are not evil either.

    I'm 135 pounds and often eat around 120g of protein. Not a big deal at all. Protein helps preserve muscle and (usually) keeps you full longer.

    I don't think extra protein becomes specifically glucose in all cases but it does feed into the Kreb's cycle either via Pyuvate to > Acetyl CoA into Krebs for oxidation into energy stores or directly into one of the cycle intermediates such as alpha-ketoglutarate. If needed that can be run basically backwards to catabolically get to glucose or to fats if need be. So the body CAN convert protein to glucose via gluconeogenesis by converting protein to pyruvate into glucose-6-phosphate.

    So its not really a "SMH" statement...not sure what you meant by that.

    markdown_lightbox_5e1b931679a9825acbc38283dd8a0f9fdc507844-07f97.jpg

    She comes from the Trump school of debate (say facts aren't true in an arrogant way in the hope people will believe you know what you're talking abput)
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    edited October 2016
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    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    Francl27 wrote: »
    Wow so much misinformation in this thread... extra protein converts to glucose... really? SMH. And carbs are not evil either.

    I'm 135 pounds and often eat around 120g of protein. Not a big deal at all. Protein helps preserve muscle and (usually) keeps you full longer.

    I don't think extra protein becomes specifically glucose in all cases but it does feed into the Kreb's cycle either via Pyuvate to > Acetyl CoA into Krebs for oxidation into energy stores or directly into one of the cycle intermediates such as alpha-ketoglutarate. If needed that can be run basically backwards to catabolically get to glucose or to fats if need be. So the body CAN convert protein to glucose via gluconeogenesis by converting protein to pyruvate into glucose-6-phosphate.

    So its not really a "SMH" statement...not sure what you meant by that.

    markdown_lightbox_5e1b931679a9825acbc38283dd8a0f9fdc507844-07f97.jpg

    Thanks, Aaron, now I'm having falshbacks and associated PTSD to biology class. :lol: I'll be sure to have my therapist send you the bill. :wink:

    Although I do have one question because It's been so long but I thought Pyruvate was a one-way trip and that it couldn't be reversed back to glucose, was this an older model or did I misremember?
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
    edited October 2016
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    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    Francl27 wrote: »
    Wow so much misinformation in this thread... extra protein converts to glucose... really? SMH. And carbs are not evil either.

    I'm 135 pounds and often eat around 120g of protein. Not a big deal at all. Protein helps preserve muscle and (usually) keeps you full longer.

    I don't think extra protein becomes specifically glucose in all cases but it does feed into the Kreb's cycle either via Pyuvate to > Acetyl CoA into Krebs for oxidation into energy stores or directly into one of the cycle intermediates such as alpha-ketoglutarate. If needed that can be run basically backwards to catabolically get to glucose or to fats if need be. So the body CAN convert protein to glucose via gluconeogenesis by converting protein to pyruvate into glucose-6-phosphate.

    So its not really a "SMH" statement...not sure what you meant by that.

    markdown_lightbox_5e1b931679a9825acbc38283dd8a0f9fdc507844-07f97.jpg

    Thanks, Aaron, now I'm having falshbacks and associated PTSD to biology class. :lol: I'll be sure to have my therapist send you the bill. :wink:

    Although I do have one question because It's been so long but I thought Pyruvate was a one-way trip and that it couldn't be reversed back to glucose, was this an older model or did I misremember?

    Pretty sure pyruvate is one of the primary starting points for glucogoneogenesis. Its admitedly been a while for me as well.

    Glycolysis has some irreversible steps and I bet that is what you are remembering, but all that means is that those specific enzymes cannot go the reverse direction, so other enzymes are used for gluconeogenesis in a bypass reaction.

    Here is the specific pathway from pyruvate for gluconeogenesis which includes enzymes seperate from glycolysis.

    https://www.rpi.edu/dept/bcbp/molbiochem/MBWeb/mb1/part2/gluconeo.htm

    Put "simply"

    Glycolysis:
    glucose + 2 NAD+ + 2 ADP + 2 Pi = 2 pyruvate + 2 NADH + 2 ATP

    Gluconeogenesis:
    2 pyruvate + 2 NADH + 4 ATP + 2 GTP = glucose + 2 NAD+ + 4 ADP + 2 GDP + 6 Pi

    Since amino acids are shunted mostly through pyruvate or oxaloacetate (which can go to pyruvate) they can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
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    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    Francl27 wrote: »
    Wow so much misinformation in this thread... extra protein converts to glucose... really? SMH. And carbs are not evil either.

    I'm 135 pounds and often eat around 120g of protein. Not a big deal at all. Protein helps preserve muscle and (usually) keeps you full longer.

    I don't think extra protein becomes specifically glucose in all cases but it does feed into the Kreb's cycle either via Pyuvate to > Acetyl CoA into Krebs for oxidation into energy stores or directly into one of the cycle intermediates such as alpha-ketoglutarate. If needed that can be run basically backwards to catabolically get to glucose or to fats if need be. So the body CAN convert protein to glucose via gluconeogenesis by converting protein to pyruvate into glucose-6-phosphate.

    So its not really a "SMH" statement...not sure what you meant by that.

    markdown_lightbox_5e1b931679a9825acbc38283dd8a0f9fdc507844-07f97.jpg

    Thanks, Aaron, now I'm having falshbacks and associated PTSD to biology class. :lol: I'll be sure to have my therapist send you the bill. :wink:

    Although I do have one question because It's been so long but I thought Pyruvate was a one-way trip and that it couldn't be reversed back to glucose, was this an older model or did I misremember?

    Pretty sure pyruvate is one of the primary starting points for glucogoneogenesis. Its admitedly been a while for me as well.

    Glycolosis has some irreversible steps but all that means is that those enzymes cannot go the reverse direction, so other enzymes are used for gluconeogenesis in a bypass reaction. I think what you are probably remembering is the diagram for glycolysis where some of the steps are irreversible.

    Here is the specific pathway from pyruvate for gluconeogenesis which includes enzymes seperate from glycolysis.

    https://www.rpi.edu/dept/bcbp/molbiochem/MBWeb/mb1/part2/gluconeo.htm

    Put "simply"

    Glycolysis:
    glucose + 2 NAD+ + 2 ADP + 2 Pi = 2 pyruvate + 2 NADH + 2 ATP

    Gluconeogenesis:
    2 pyruvate + 2 NADH + 4 ATP + 2 GTP = glucose + 2 NAD+ + 4 ADP + 2 GDP + 6 Pi

    Since amino acids are shunted mostly through pyruvate or oxaloacetate (which can go to pyruvate) they can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis.

    Thanks, that makes sense now, I think I was confusing it with another step in the Kreb cycle.
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
    edited October 2016
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    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    Francl27 wrote: »
    Wow so much misinformation in this thread... extra protein converts to glucose... really? SMH. And carbs are not evil either.

    I'm 135 pounds and often eat around 120g of protein. Not a big deal at all. Protein helps preserve muscle and (usually) keeps you full longer.

    I don't think extra protein becomes specifically glucose in all cases but it does feed into the Kreb's cycle either via Pyuvate to > Acetyl CoA into Krebs for oxidation into energy stores or directly into one of the cycle intermediates such as alpha-ketoglutarate. If needed that can be run basically backwards to catabolically get to glucose or to fats if need be. So the body CAN convert protein to glucose via gluconeogenesis by converting protein to pyruvate into glucose-6-phosphate.

    So its not really a "SMH" statement...not sure what you meant by that.

    markdown_lightbox_5e1b931679a9825acbc38283dd8a0f9fdc507844-07f97.jpg

    Thanks, Aaron, now I'm having falshbacks and associated PTSD to biology class. :lol: I'll be sure to have my therapist send you the bill. :wink:

    Although I do have one question because It's been so long but I thought Pyruvate was a one-way trip and that it couldn't be reversed back to glucose, was this an older model or did I misremember?

    Pretty sure pyruvate is one of the primary starting points for glucogoneogenesis. Its admitedly been a while for me as well.

    Glycolosis has some irreversible steps but all that means is that those enzymes cannot go the reverse direction, so other enzymes are used for gluconeogenesis in a bypass reaction. I think what you are probably remembering is the diagram for glycolysis where some of the steps are irreversible.

    Here is the specific pathway from pyruvate for gluconeogenesis which includes enzymes seperate from glycolysis.

    https://www.rpi.edu/dept/bcbp/molbiochem/MBWeb/mb1/part2/gluconeo.htm

    Put "simply"

    Glycolysis:
    glucose + 2 NAD+ + 2 ADP + 2 Pi = 2 pyruvate + 2 NADH + 2 ATP

    Gluconeogenesis:
    2 pyruvate + 2 NADH + 4 ATP + 2 GTP = glucose + 2 NAD+ + 4 ADP + 2 GDP + 6 Pi

    Since amino acids are shunted mostly through pyruvate or oxaloacetate (which can go to pyruvate) they can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis.

    Thanks, that makes sense now, I think I was confusing it with another step in the Kreb cycle.

    Put simply I'm pretty sure there is a path you can follow from any one macro to any other macro through various anabolic and catabolic steps...but some paths are much less efficient than others.

    So can protein get converted to glucose? Yeah. Is that relevant to how you should diet? Not really.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
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    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    Wheelhouse15 wrote: »
    Aaron_K123 wrote: »
    Francl27 wrote: »
    Wow so much misinformation in this thread... extra protein converts to glucose... really? SMH. And carbs are not evil either.

    I'm 135 pounds and often eat around 120g of protein. Not a big deal at all. Protein helps preserve muscle and (usually) keeps you full longer.

    I don't think extra protein becomes specifically glucose in all cases but it does feed into the Kreb's cycle either via Pyuvate to > Acetyl CoA into Krebs for oxidation into energy stores or directly into one of the cycle intermediates such as alpha-ketoglutarate. If needed that can be run basically backwards to catabolically get to glucose or to fats if need be. So the body CAN convert protein to glucose via gluconeogenesis by converting protein to pyruvate into glucose-6-phosphate.

    So its not really a "SMH" statement...not sure what you meant by that.

    markdown_lightbox_5e1b931679a9825acbc38283dd8a0f9fdc507844-07f97.jpg

    Thanks, Aaron, now I'm having falshbacks and associated PTSD to biology class. :lol: I'll be sure to have my therapist send you the bill. :wink:

    Although I do have one question because It's been so long but I thought Pyruvate was a one-way trip and that it couldn't be reversed back to glucose, was this an older model or did I misremember?

    Pretty sure pyruvate is one of the primary starting points for glucogoneogenesis. Its admitedly been a while for me as well.

    Glycolosis has some irreversible steps but all that means is that those enzymes cannot go the reverse direction, so other enzymes are used for gluconeogenesis in a bypass reaction. I think what you are probably remembering is the diagram for glycolysis where some of the steps are irreversible.

    Here is the specific pathway from pyruvate for gluconeogenesis which includes enzymes seperate from glycolysis.

    https://www.rpi.edu/dept/bcbp/molbiochem/MBWeb/mb1/part2/gluconeo.htm

    Put "simply"

    Glycolysis:
    glucose + 2 NAD+ + 2 ADP + 2 Pi = 2 pyruvate + 2 NADH + 2 ATP

    Gluconeogenesis:
    2 pyruvate + 2 NADH + 4 ATP + 2 GTP = glucose + 2 NAD+ + 4 ADP + 2 GDP + 6 Pi

    Since amino acids are shunted mostly through pyruvate or oxaloacetate (which can go to pyruvate) they can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis.

    Thanks, that makes sense now, I think I was confusing it with another step in the Kreb cycle.

    Put simply I'm pretty sure there is a path you can follow from any one macro to any other macro through various anabolic and catabolic steps...but some paths are much less efficient than others.

    So can protein get converted to glucose? Yeah. Is that relevant to how you should diet? Not really.

    I certainly don't worry about it! :)
  • onsickmom
    onsickmom Posts: 212 Member
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    Well I'm super confused now.....I'm no scientist....lol
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
    edited October 2016
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    onsickmom wrote: »
    Well I'm super confused now.....I'm no scientist....lol

    Well okay, not sure why you are "lol"ing about it but feel free to ignore...not really relevant. You aren't eating too much protein, not even sure that is a thing that ever happens. The only thing that is going to make you gain fat is to be in caloric excess relative to your expenditure and it doesn't matter if that comes from protein or carbs or fat, its all the same. Sugar doesn't just make you gain weight, thats not how that works.
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
    edited October 2016
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    General diet recommendation. Count your calories as accurately as you can, figure out how many calories you maintain at. Subtract something like 20% from that number. (So if you maintain at 2000 calories then subtract 400 to get 1600. Eat that number of calories on average per day. Eat whatever you want that fits into those calories. You may find eating things that are higher in protein or fat or dietary fiber will help you feel more full and satisfied (this is the reason people say to avoid refined sugars which aren't as satisfying). And thats it. Just repeat until you are at your desired weight.

    No need to overcomplicate it and there is basically no way you can eat too much protein while dieting.
  • onsickmom
    onsickmom Posts: 212 Member
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    Thank you Arron_k954..…Thats a good way to understand.... I was lol..ing....because I looked at the charts and went oh my!!!! I appreciated all the information . I was laughing at myself for being a bit slow to understand it all..Thanks again

  • zilkah
    zilkah Posts: 207 Member
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    Im honestly jealous that you're able to easily eat that much protein lol. I struggle to get mine up. I think that's a good amount!

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