Perks of becoming a vegetarian?
Replies
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That may be true.melonaulait wrote: »Unfortunately Nestle isn't as morally superior as those of us with lower muscle mass.
I wonder if they use butyric acid and vegetable oil in their "chocolate" in Japan like they do in the USA.
I just asked because I saw them in your profile picture.0 -
A picture of one person -without references or citations- who looks artificial and out of proportion is supposed to invalidate my entire statement?lemurcat12 wrote: »Low muscle-mass vegetarian (vegan, actually).
It was how much it was worth.
I'm not a vegetarian, but claiming that one is unhealthy and can't gain muscle on a vegetarian diet (or that eating meat means you have more muscle mass) is as ridiculous as claiming the reverse.
(On the photo, Robert Cheeke is supposed to be natural and I've never heard anything to the contrary, but I'm not a bodybuilding expert or into that scene so not saying there couldn't possibly some rumor about him. There are loads of other examples in other athletic areas, as I'm sure you know.)7 -
For me the perks are no more migraines and a cheaper grocery bill.2
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I'm not 100% vegetarian but I eat a substantively plant based diet...I eat vegetarian 3-4x per week. Keep in mind that any diet can be as healthy as you want to make it. I have a far better overall diet than some of my full time vegetarian friends as my diet revolves largely around whole foods and minimally processed foods...I have some vegetarian friends that basically live off of junk food most of the time.
I don't really think there's a substantive health benefit if you're comparing an omnivore and a vegetarian provided the overall diet is largely whole foods based...an omnivore with a largely whole food based diet is going to be eating plenty of veggies and fruit and good fats, etc. If you're comparing an omnivore who is eating the SAD to a whole foods vegetarian, that a whole other story...but really, you're also comparing apples to oranges there.
If you think being a vegetarian will auto default to weight loss, you are sorely mistaken. Even though my vegetarian meals are very healthy, they can actually be more calorie dense than my omnivore days if I'm not careful. To ensure I'm getting the nutrition I need, I eat a lot of beans and lentils and potatoes and sweet potatoes and whole grains...these things can be very calorie dense vs grilling some kind of lean protein and serving with a big side of veg for example...
I guess you really need to consider why you're doing it. For my wife and I there were a couple of reasons we went part time veg...
1. We were eating a lot of meat and became more concerned with the sourcing of that meat from both an environmental POV as well as treatment of the animals and the hormones and antibiotics and whatnot being pumped into them. We buy locally sourced beef and chicken and wild caught salmon and cod (frozen...I live in the desert) and it gets really expensive when you're eating meat all the time.
2. I have borderline high uric acid and have had gout flares here and there since I was in my 20s...more meat just ups my uric acid and increases my odds of a flare...I do much better eating a more plant based diet.3 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I understand you have no desire to stop eating meat, but there's no need to traffic in misinformation.
What part of that was misinformation?
I never said "all vegans are smaller than all omnivores". That would be absurd.
If you are "debating" the anthropology then we will have to take that offline.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »I understand you have no desire to stop eating meat, but there's no need to traffic in misinformation.
What part of that was misinformation?
I never said "all vegans are smaller than all omnivores". That would be absurd.
If you are debating the anthropology then we will have to take that offline.
I'm debating this: "You get to act morally superior to those of us with more muscle mass, more B vitamins, more complete proteins and more Iron in their diets."
Some people who don't eat meat have more muscle mass than those who don't. And people who don't eat meat are perfectly capable of meeting their needs for B vitamins, complete proteins, and iron. Vegetarians are perfectly capable of gaining and retaining muscle mass and meeting their nutritional needs.
As far as the anthropology, I consider it irrelevant. Our species has engaged in a lot of behavior -- we still get to decide for ourselves whether we want to do it individually. Our ancestors ate meat and it may have influenced the way we evolved. Okay. Since we can easily meet our nutritional needs without meat today, we can still decide if we want to eat it or not. Anthropology isn't our destiny. I assume there were behaviors commonly engaged in by our ancestors that you have chosen not to engage in yourself.
You may want to do more research on that Italian story -- Italy isn't seriously moving to make veganism illegal for children and I'm not aware of any government that is attempting to do so at this time.
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Really? The first Google result: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/italy-law-vegan-diet_us_57ac4664e4b0db3be07d446bjanejellyroll wrote: »You may want to do more research on that Italian story -- Italy isn't seriously moving to make veganism illegal for children and I'm not aware of any government that is attempting to do so at this time.
"The law proposes jail sentences of a year for raising a child on a vegan diet, up to four years if the child develops a permanent health problem and up to seven years if the child dies as a result.
It would apply to children under 16 and penalties would increase by a year if the child is under three."
You seem to be cherry-picking parts of the discussion to "debate" instead of the whole thing.
I am not trying to deal in absolutes but apparently you are.
The OP asked for advice. My wife was a vegetarian, now a pescatarian.
I am a trainer and have been for over 20 years. I gave my advice.
Do with it what you will.4 -
Yes, Italy is NOT seriously moving to make veganism illegal for kids, and that's a terrible source.
I recommend (for that portion of the discussion) going to the Health and Fitness Debate forum where there's a thread on it: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10441603/do-vegan-diets-for-children-really-need-to-be-outlawed#latest
The reporting on it was ridiculous, as you can see if you try to get specifics from the HuffPo article (picked up from a bad article in the UK press, as I recall) or even on the supposed law. It's like an Italian website suggesting some random thing proposed by some Congressperson with no chance of passing (which happens all the time) reflects some serious policy change in the US.
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Wow. Talk about denial.
Well, then here it is an Italian newspaper:
"Known as the “Savino law”, it aims to “stigmatise the reckless and dangerous eating behaviour imposed by parents ... to the detriment of minors”, reports Italian newspaper La Repubblica."
http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/07/news/proposta_di_legge_fi_per_punire_genitori_che_impongono_dieta_vegana_a_figli-145539707/
I'm done with this thread.
"Italy isn't seriously moving to make veganism illegal for children and I'm not aware of any government that is attempting to do so at this time." -- FAIL
A proposed law is a "moving to make veganism illegal for children" where I come from.1 -
Really? The first Google result: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/italy-law-vegan-diet_us_57ac4664e4b0db3be07d446bjanejellyroll wrote: »You may want to do more research on that Italian story -- Italy isn't seriously moving to make veganism illegal for children and I'm not aware of any government that is attempting to do so at this time.
"The law proposes jail sentences of a year for raising a child on a vegan diet, up to four years if the child develops a permanent health problem and up to seven years if the child dies as a result.
It would apply to children under 16 and penalties would increase by a year if the child is under three."
You seem to be cherry-picking parts of the discussion to "debate" instead of the whole thing.
I am not trying to deal in absolutes but apparently you are.
The OP asked for advice. My wife was a vegetarian, now a pescatarian.
I am a trainer and have been for over 20 years. I gave my advice.
Do with it what you will.
This is a proposed law -- it's the equivalent of a member of the House of Representatives in the US introducing a bill to impeach Obama (which happens once or twice a year here) but not having the support to bring it to a full vote. All respect to the Huffington Post, but there is no indication that this bill has the votes to be put into law -- it hasn't even come up to debate yet. If it does pass debate, get voted into law, and enacted, then I will be happy to admit that I'm wrong. But that still wouldn't be the "some governments" you mentioned above -- this is just one government and a bill with an unknown amount of support in Italy. Were there other governments you were thinking of?
I'm not attempting to cherrypick your points -- if you tell me which other governments you were referring to, we can discuss those as well. Even if more governments, as you claim, were taking this step, I'm still not clear what relationship it has to vegetarianism, where one is presumably eating eggs and dairy, for an adult. It smacks of fear-mongering, to be honest.
I understand that you are giving advice based on your wife's situation. I'm pointing out there is a wider picture to consider and research on the long-term health of vegetarians that we can draw upon apart from your experience with your wife.
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Wow. Talk about denial.
Well, then here it is an Italian newspaper:
"Known as the “Savino law”, it aims to “stigmatise the reckless and dangerous eating behaviour imposed by parents ... to the detriment of minors”, reports Italian newspaper La Repubblica."
http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/07/news/proposta_di_legge_fi_per_punire_genitori_che_impongono_dieta_vegana_a_figli-145539707/
I'm done with this thread.
You realize that nobody is denying that this bill has been proposed (in a single country), we're just questioning how likely it is to be enacted into law, right?6 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I'm not 100% vegetarian but I eat a substantively plant based diet...I eat vegetarian 3-4x per week. Keep in mind that any diet can be as healthy as you want to make it. I have a far better overall diet than some of my full time vegetarian friends as my diet revolves largely around whole foods and minimally processed foods...I have some vegetarian friends that basically live off of junk food most of the time.
I don't really think there's a substantive health benefit if you're comparing an omnivore and a vegetarian provided the overall diet is largely whole foods based...an omnivore with a largely whole food based diet is going to be eating plenty of veggies and fruit and good fats, etc. If you're comparing an omnivore who is eating the SAD to a whole foods vegetarian, that a whole other story...but really, you're also comparing apples to oranges there.
If you think being a vegetarian will auto default to weight loss, you are sorely mistaken. Even though my vegetarian meals are very healthy, they can actually be more calorie dense than my omnivore days if I'm not careful. To ensure I'm getting the nutrition I need, I eat a lot of beans and lentils and potatoes and sweet potatoes and whole grains...these things can be very calorie dense vs grilling some kind of lean protein and serving with a big side of veg for example...
I guess you really need to consider why you're doing it. For my wife and I there were a couple of reasons we went part time veg...
1. We were eating a lot of meat and became more concerned with the sourcing of that meat from both an environmental POV as well as treatment of the animals and the hormones and antibiotics and whatnot being pumped into them. We buy locally sourced beef and chicken and wild caught salmon and cod (frozen...I live in the desert) and it gets really expensive when you're eating meat all the time.
2. I have borderline high uric acid and have had gout flares here and there since I was in my 20s...more meat just ups my uric acid and increases my odds of a flare...I do much better eating a more plant based diet.
some good points here...
Most vegetarians I know personally eat horrific amounts of "junk" food and processed stuff...I looked at the ingredients in their "chicken burgers" WTF...
and no they aren't slim folks...sorry.
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edit: This thread is not for me, so i'll just nope out at this point.
Thanks to @janejellyroll and others for your patience and kindness.
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Wow. Talk about denial.
Well, then here it is an Italian newspaper:
"Known as the “Savino law”, it aims to “stigmatise the reckless and dangerous eating behaviour imposed by parents ... to the detriment of minors”, reports Italian newspaper La Repubblica."
http://www.repubblica.it/salute/alimentazione/2016/08/07/news/proposta_di_legge_fi_per_punire_genitori_che_impongono_dieta_vegana_a_figli-145539707/
I'm done with this thread.
"Italy isn't seriously moving to make veganism illegal for children and I'm not aware of any government that is attempting to do so at this time." -- FAIL
A proposed law is a "moving to make veganism illegal for children" where I come from.
No, it's not. It was discussed at great length in the other thread and I suggest that the cites you are finding are from August (and the whole thing is off topic in this thread).
The law would not (contrary to the claims of some vegans in the US and UK who had not read the law) have outlawed all vegan diets, let alone vegetarian ones, but ones that were lacking adequate nutrients (and same with other diets that did). And it was pushed by one right-wing politician (Savino), and not taken seriously in Italy from what I found.
I made a comparison with one Congress member doing something before. Perhaps you aren't familiar with how common it is for things not expected (or with any chance) to become law to be proposed?
Anyway, I'm happy to discuss it in the other thread, and will stop derailing OP's topic.4 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I guess you really need to consider why you're doing it. For my wife and I there were a couple of reasons we went part time veg...
1. We were eating a lot of meat and became more concerned with the sourcing of that meat from both an environmental POV as well as treatment of the animals and the hormones and antibiotics and whatnot being pumped into them. We buy locally sourced beef and chicken and wild caught salmon and cod (frozen...I live in the desert) and it gets really expensive when you're eating meat all the time.
2. I have borderline high uric acid and have had gout flares here and there since I was in my 20s...more meat just ups my uric acid and increases my odds of a flare...I do much better eating a more plant based diet.
Ditto with me. Two days eating red meat and I end up with a gout flareup. The sourcing issue is important too; there's too much crap in our food and eating locally sourced meat is expensive -- plant protein sources are not.
To me, those are the two major health reasons for my cutting back on meat intake. Religious and ethical reasons are a different matter -- and frankly, no one is going to convert anyone in threads like this.
I do get ethical twinges about eating vertebrates higher than amphibians. I could see cutting mammals and birds out of my diet for ethical reasons but I have no problem eating fish, reptiles, or amphibians. As of now, I'm an occasional beef/pork eater and more frequently a poultry/fish eater.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I guess you really need to consider why you're doing it. For my wife and I there were a couple of reasons we went part time veg...
1. We were eating a lot of meat and became more concerned with the sourcing of that meat from both an environmental POV as well as treatment of the animals and the hormones and antibiotics and whatnot being pumped into them. We buy locally sourced beef and chicken and wild caught salmon and cod (frozen...I live in the desert) and it gets really expensive when you're eating meat all the time.
2. I have borderline high uric acid and have had gout flares here and there since I was in my 20s...more meat just ups my uric acid and increases my odds of a flare...I do much better eating a more plant based diet.
Ditto with me. Two days eating red meat and I end up with a gout flareup. The sourcing issue is important too; there's too much crap in our food and eating locally sourced meat is expensive -- plant protein sources are not.
To me, those are the two major health reasons for my cutting back on meat intake. Religious and ethical reasons are a different matter -- and frankly, no one is going to convert anyone in threads like this.
I do get ethical twinges about eating vertebrates higher than amphibians. I could see cutting mammals and birds out of my diet for ethical reasons but I have no problem eating fish, reptiles, or amphibians. As of now, I'm an occasional beef/pork eater and more frequently a poultry/fish eater.
Yup...we usually have fish a couple times per week and a chicken dish on the weekend. Sometimes I think I could give up red meat entirely...and then a get a crazy craving for a pot roast or short ribs or something. I'm usually ok if I keep the red meat to a minimum though...unfortunately too much shrimp is also a no-no for me...I can get away with a little, but too much and my right foot will just about explode.0 -
You get to act morally superior to those of us with more muscle mass, more B vitamins, more complete proteins and more Iron in their diets.
The reason you can ask this question is because we ate meat. Period.
Bigger jaws (gorillas, chimps) required bigger jaw muscles; because we had to crush hard roots, etc.
The switch to meat allowed that muscle to grow weaker*, which put less pressure on the brain case and skull.
This allowed the skull to grow and therefore the brain as well. It is simple anthropology.
Now your "bigger brain" is asking if you should give up meat... Wow.
Seriously, re-think it. My wife was a vegetarian, then her neurologist told her to at least eat fish.
I told her to for years, but I'm not her doctor...
She still had to have 3 blood transfusions this year to treat anemia. Women are low on Iron to begin with.
I'm an anemic omnivore who has to supplement to stay in Low Normal.
I'm taking Iron Bisglycinate now.
The VA had given me two presumably cheap forms of iron that did not prevent hair loss and fatigue.2 -
All this anthropology about jaw muscles is lovely, but seeing as chimps and bonobos are omnivores like humans it doesn't really stack up.7
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kathrynjean_ wrote: »
Seriously, re-think it. My wife was a vegetarian, then her neurologist told her to at least eat fish.
I told her to for years, but I'm not her doctor...
She still had to have 3 blood transfusions this year to treat anemia. Women are low on Iron to begin with.
I see your anecdote and raise you my own.
I've been vegan for more than 7 years now and my bloodwork is great. I consult with my physician regularly. I pay more attention to what I eat now and my iron is actually better than it was when I was occasionally eating meat.
Vegetarianism and veganism is not a magic bullet for health, and I'm not claiming that it is. But it's also not a death sentence for women as you make it sound.
It is possible to eat a veg diet and live a healthy life. It is possible to eat a diet with meat and eggs and dairy and live a healthy life. The end.kathrynjean_ wrote: »
Seriously, re-think it. My wife was a vegetarian, then her neurologist told her to at least eat fish.
I told her to for years, but I'm not her doctor...
She still had to have 3 blood transfusions this year to treat anemia. Women are low on Iron to begin with.
I see your anecdote and raise you my own.
I've been vegan for more than 7 years now and my bloodwork is great. I consult with my physician regularly. I pay more attention to what I eat now and my iron is actually better than it was when I was occasionally eating meat.
Vegetarianism and veganism is not a magic bullet for health, and I'm not claiming that it is. But it's also not a death sentence for women as you make it sound.
It is possible to eat a veg diet and live a healthy life. It is possible to eat a diet with meat and eggs and dairy and live a healthy life. The end.
and I will raise you this one.
Vegans and vegetarians who are female are at a greater risk for experiencing issues during pregnancy which can then be passed to their children.
The inability to absorb certain nutrients while pregnant and passing it onto your kids where it's permanent for them is one of the biggest reasons not be a vegetarian/vegan for a woman.
I believe it was fat that couldn't be absorbed but will find the link to show for sure...as well b12 etc.
https://chriskresser.com/why-you-should-think-twice-about-vegetarian-and-vegan-diets/
this isn't the link but see if I can find it.
The article you posted is completely biased as Chris resser is a man who is incapable of knowing what it's like to be pregnant. And, I get he posted resources, but not every person is the same. With a healthy pregnancy you need to exercise, take you daily prenatals, eat right and with that being said you need to know how to use proportions, you also need to moderate your stress levels, take frequent naps, don't do any heavy lifting. There are SO MANY factors that also have to be taken into consideration to having a healthy pregnancy
Also, if you've ever taken a women's health and wellness class you would know that any nutrients a baby is lacking or anything else it needs, it takes it directly from the mother whether they are vegetarian or not, which also goes to say that genetics also play a role in how the baby will turn out
I know lots of women who are vegetarian and vegan who have had a healthy pregnancy and healthy babies. Just because you're vegetarian or vegan doesn't mean you're at a higher risk for your prgnancy to lack nutrients cause the same thing can happen to a woman that is a carnivore.
http://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases_conditions/hic_Am_I_Pregnant/hic_Good_Nutrition_During_Pregnancy_for_You_and_Your_Baby/hic_Nutrition_During_Pregnancy_for_Vegetarians
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longing for a juicy steak.....2
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You get to act morally superior to those of us with more muscle mass, more B vitamins, more complete proteins and more Iron in their diets.
The reason you can ask this question is because we ate meat. Period.
Bigger jaws (gorillas, chimps) required bigger jaw muscles; because we had to crush hard roots, etc.
The switch to meat allowed that muscle to grow weaker*, which put less pressure on the brain case and skull.
This allowed the skull to grow and therefore the brain as well. It is simple anthropology.
Now your "bigger brain" is asking if you should give up meat... Wow.
Seriously, re-think it. My wife was a vegetarian, then her neurologist told her to at least eat fish.
I told her to for years, but I'm not her doctor...
She still had to have 3 blood transfusions this year to treat anemia. Women are low on Iron to begin with.
* ADDENDUM: also the amino profile of meats and sweetbreads promote brain growth and development to a degree which a vegetarian diet does not.
This is why some governments are moving to make it illegal to put developing children on vegetarian and vegan diets.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/11/italian-baby-fed-vegan-diet-hospitalized-for-malnutrition/
Did you know that that neurologist clearly is giving their personal opinion and should know that just because you're vegetarian and anemic does not mean you have to "eat at least fish" to meet iron needs? There's a LOT of iron riched foods for veganism and vegetarianism. My friends mom is anemic and allergic to soy. She's a carnivore and still has problems not meeting her iron needs because she doesnt want to eat veggies or eats very little of them. Iron enriched foods aside from beans and soy products are dates, pistachios, almonds, cashews, peanuts, kale, aegula, dried peaches, brocolli, cauliflower, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, and so so many others.
If your wife's iron needs aren't being met and she still wants to stay vegetarian, then the neurologist should have known better and sent her to a licensed nutrionist.
http://bembu.com/iron-rich-foods-for-vegetarians-and-vegans6 -
not so much with the bolded....kathrynjean_ wrote: »
Seriously, re-think it. My wife was a vegetarian, then her neurologist told her to at least eat fish.
I told her to for years, but I'm not her doctor...
She still had to have 3 blood transfusions this year to treat anemia. Women are low on Iron to begin with.
I see your anecdote and raise you my own.
I've been vegan for more than 7 years now and my bloodwork is great. I consult with my physician regularly. I pay more attention to what I eat now and my iron is actually better than it was when I was occasionally eating meat.
Vegetarianism and veganism is not a magic bullet for health, and I'm not claiming that it is. But it's also not a death sentence for women as you make it sound.
It is possible to eat a veg diet and live a healthy life. It is possible to eat a diet with meat and eggs and dairy and live a healthy life. The end.kathrynjean_ wrote: »
Seriously, re-think it. My wife was a vegetarian, then her neurologist told her to at least eat fish.
I told her to for years, but I'm not her doctor...
She still had to have 3 blood transfusions this year to treat anemia. Women are low on Iron to begin with.
I see your anecdote and raise you my own.
I've been vegan for more than 7 years now and my bloodwork is great. I consult with my physician regularly. I pay more attention to what I eat now and my iron is actually better than it was when I was occasionally eating meat.
Vegetarianism and veganism is not a magic bullet for health, and I'm not claiming that it is. But it's also not a death sentence for women as you make it sound.
It is possible to eat a veg diet and live a healthy life. It is possible to eat a diet with meat and eggs and dairy and live a healthy life. The end.
and I will raise you this one.
Vegans and vegetarians who are female are at a greater risk for experiencing issues during pregnancy which can then be passed to their children.
The inability to absorb certain nutrients while pregnant and passing it onto your kids where it's permanent for them is one of the biggest reasons not be a vegetarian/vegan for a woman.
I believe it was fat that couldn't be absorbed but will find the link to show for sure...as well b12 etc.
https://chriskresser.com/why-you-should-think-twice-about-vegetarian-and-vegan-diets/
this isn't the link but see if I can find it.
The article you posted is completely biased as Chris resser is a man who is incapable of knowing what it's like to be pregnant. And, I get he posted resources, but not every person is the same. With a healthy pregnancy you need to exercise, take you daily prenatals, eat right and with that being said you need to know how to use proportions, you also need to moderate your stress levels, take frequent naps, don't do any heavy lifting. There are SO MANY factors that also have to be taken into consideration to having a healthy pregnancy
Also, if you've ever taken a women's health and wellness class you would know that any nutrients a baby is lacking or anything else it needs, it takes it directly from the mother whether they are vegetarian or not, which also goes to say that genetics also play a role in how the baby will turn out
I know lots of women who are vegetarian and vegan who have had a healthy pregnancy and healthy babies. Just because you're vegetarian or vegan doesn't mean you're at a higher risk for your prgnancy to lack nutrients cause the same thing can happen to a woman that is a carnivore.
http://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases_conditions/hic_Am_I_Pregnant/hic_Good_Nutrition_During_Pregnancy_for_You_and_Your_Baby/hic_Nutrition_During_Pregnancy_for_Vegetarians
That wasn't the link I wanted to post as I haven't found it yet...but my point is this.
There is an issue women who are vegan/vegetarian have while pregnant in absorbing certain fat if not all and if that isn't bad enough you can pass it onto your child and with them it's permanent...not temporary.
Along with B12 being too low which prenatles don't cover) if we were meant to be vegetarian we wouldn't have canine teeth for ripping meat...we wouldn't need the nutrients you can get from meat and not veggies...
being vegetarian/vegan is fine but don't paint it for somethign it's not...it is not natural.
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not so much with the bolded....kathrynjean_ wrote: »
Seriously, re-think it. My wife was a vegetarian, then her neurologist told her to at least eat fish.
I told her to for years, but I'm not her doctor...
She still had to have 3 blood transfusions this year to treat anemia. Women are low on Iron to begin with.
I see your anecdote and raise you my own.
I've been vegan for more than 7 years now and my bloodwork is great. I consult with my physician regularly. I pay more attention to what I eat now and my iron is actually better than it was when I was occasionally eating meat.
Vegetarianism and veganism is not a magic bullet for health, and I'm not claiming that it is. But it's also not a death sentence for women as you make it sound.
It is possible to eat a veg diet and live a healthy life. It is possible to eat a diet with meat and eggs and dairy and live a healthy life. The end.kathrynjean_ wrote: »
Seriously, re-think it. My wife was a vegetarian, then her neurologist told her to at least eat fish.
I told her to for years, but I'm not her doctor...
She still had to have 3 blood transfusions this year to treat anemia. Women are low on Iron to begin with.
I see your anecdote and raise you my own.
I've been vegan for more than 7 years now and my bloodwork is great. I consult with my physician regularly. I pay more attention to what I eat now and my iron is actually better than it was when I was occasionally eating meat.
Vegetarianism and veganism is not a magic bullet for health, and I'm not claiming that it is. But it's also not a death sentence for women as you make it sound.
It is possible to eat a veg diet and live a healthy life. It is possible to eat a diet with meat and eggs and dairy and live a healthy life. The end.
and I will raise you this one.
Vegans and vegetarians who are female are at a greater risk for experiencing issues during pregnancy which can then be passed to their children.
The inability to absorb certain nutrients while pregnant and passing it onto your kids where it's permanent for them is one of the biggest reasons not be a vegetarian/vegan for a woman.
I believe it was fat that couldn't be absorbed but will find the link to show for sure...as well b12 etc.
https://chriskresser.com/why-you-should-think-twice-about-vegetarian-and-vegan-diets/
this isn't the link but see if I can find it.
The article you posted is completely biased as Chris resser is a man who is incapable of knowing what it's like to be pregnant. And, I get he posted resources, but not every person is the same. With a healthy pregnancy you need to exercise, take you daily prenatals, eat right and with that being said you need to know how to use proportions, you also need to moderate your stress levels, take frequent naps, don't do any heavy lifting. There are SO MANY factors that also have to be taken into consideration to having a healthy pregnancy
Also, if you've ever taken a women's health and wellness class you would know that any nutrients a baby is lacking or anything else it needs, it takes it directly from the mother whether they are vegetarian or not, which also goes to say that genetics also play a role in how the baby will turn out
I know lots of women who are vegetarian and vegan who have had a healthy pregnancy and healthy babies. Just because you're vegetarian or vegan doesn't mean you're at a higher risk for your prgnancy to lack nutrients cause the same thing can happen to a woman that is a carnivore.
http://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases_conditions/hic_Am_I_Pregnant/hic_Good_Nutrition_During_Pregnancy_for_You_and_Your_Baby/hic_Nutrition_During_Pregnancy_for_Vegetarians
That wasn't the link I wanted to post as I haven't found it yet...but my point is this.
There is an issue women who are vegan/vegetarian have while pregnant in absorbing certain fat if not all and if that isn't bad enough you can pass it onto your child and with them it's permanent...not temporary.
Along with B12 being too low which prenatles don't cover) if we were meant to be vegetarian we wouldn't have canine teeth for ripping meat...we wouldn't need the nutrients you can get from meat and not veggies...
being vegetarian/vegan is fine but don't paint it for somethign it's not...it is not natural.
I get that humans are omnivores, but to say we're "meant to eat meat" is wrong. We evolved over time. Not everyone has canines. And, not everyone can eat meat because of their health. I am one of those people who cannot eat meat for my health as it will cause me to become sick. My body does not provide the right enzymes in it to break down meat. So again I'm not making it for something it's not. I'm stating the facts that just cause you're vegetarian or vegan does not necessarily mean you will lack nutrients,omega 3's, or protiens in pregnancy or not.
I know that vegetarianism isn't for everyone, but I'm so tired of people trying to make up excuses or claiming that it's bad for your health from lack of iron, protein, and other nutrients just cause it didn't come from something that pumps blood through it. Plus B12's aren't that hard to consume they're in rice, dairy, nuts, soy products, nutritional yeast, and science has come a long way since then, so now there's supplements you can take and almost every store sells vitamins including B12 capsules.
4 -
May I be honest?
This direction of this thread makes me feel deflated.
Sadly this is a common path any conversation involving vegetarianism or veganism takes. I recently posted a thread with a vegan question and the same thing happened (involving some of the very same characters).
To the OP, I encourage you to give vegetarianism a try, but be judicious in who you tell. There are more open minded, supportive, and helpful people (regardless of lifestyle choice) than not, but in my experience online many non-vegetarians become sanctimonious and didactic. People aren't quite as brash in person, though be prepared for the "where to you get your protein?" question.
If you watch a lot of YouTube like me, there are some awesome young vegan bodybuilder a who have some awesome vlog channels.
SoTrueQ (this guy is so smooth!!)
John Venus
Tish Wonders
VeganHustleTV
Don't give up!
10 -
Our jaws have shrunk because we started cooking our food, not because we ate meat. Cooking food gave us the ability to absorb more nutrients and kill off various pathogens. Cooking is also the primary force behind the growth of our brains - not meat. Starches are what have sustained human populations and fueled our brains, not meat.
Also, what our ancient ancestors may or may not have ate is irrelevant to what we should eat in our modern world where we have an immense variety of food available at the tip of our fingertips. B12 deficiency is more from purifying our water rather than not eating animals (this is also why the animals you eat have to be fed B12 supplements).
Regardless, the health benefits of plant based diets are very well documented. Look at the healthiest, slimmest populations on the planet - they're plant based. You can be plant-based vegan and you can also have small amounts of meat and be plant based.7 -
Well I hate to be the bearer of bad news but non vegans go through pregnancy issues as well, I know because I was an omnivore at the time. Since becoming vegan I have found myself strong mentally and physically. My stomach problems have completely evaporated and my mental health has improved immensely. I am still overweight but am losing it slowly and healthily. It's not for everyone but going vegan was the best thing that I chose to do.5
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You have to give up meat. That's the ultimate anti-perk.
You mean the anti-pork...
But seriously, I love it. I've had more energy and I just feel cleaner. I've been a vegetarian for 9 years. I switched because I noticed just how lethargic and gross I felt after eating meat. It always felt like my body exerted so much energy just to digest a burger...so I stopped. I do eat seafood (which technically makes me a pescetarian) because it's easier for my body to process, and I'll occasionally indulge in a selection of cured meats (OMG - saucisson is DELICIOUS), but it really does make me ill.
So, I guess what I'm saying is...find the lifestyle that's right for you. Vegan, vegetarian, pescetarian, paleo, meatless on Mondays, whatever. Find the combination that makes you feel good and healthy and that's what you should stick to.
But seriously, a perk of going meatless is that the meat industry causes ridiculous amounts of pollution and waste, so if you stop eating meat, you're reducing your carbon footprint and literally helping to save the world.6 -
not so much with the bolded....kathrynjean_ wrote: »
Seriously, re-think it. My wife was a vegetarian, then her neurologist told her to at least eat fish.
I told her to for years, but I'm not her doctor...
She still had to have 3 blood transfusions this year to treat anemia. Women are low on Iron to begin with.
I see your anecdote and raise you my own.
I've been vegan for more than 7 years now and my bloodwork is great. I consult with my physician regularly. I pay more attention to what I eat now and my iron is actually better than it was when I was occasionally eating meat.
Vegetarianism and veganism is not a magic bullet for health, and I'm not claiming that it is. But it's also not a death sentence for women as you make it sound.
It is possible to eat a veg diet and live a healthy life. It is possible to eat a diet with meat and eggs and dairy and live a healthy life. The end.kathrynjean_ wrote: »
Seriously, re-think it. My wife was a vegetarian, then her neurologist told her to at least eat fish.
I told her to for years, but I'm not her doctor...
She still had to have 3 blood transfusions this year to treat anemia. Women are low on Iron to begin with.
I see your anecdote and raise you my own.
I've been vegan for more than 7 years now and my bloodwork is great. I consult with my physician regularly. I pay more attention to what I eat now and my iron is actually better than it was when I was occasionally eating meat.
Vegetarianism and veganism is not a magic bullet for health, and I'm not claiming that it is. But it's also not a death sentence for women as you make it sound.
It is possible to eat a veg diet and live a healthy life. It is possible to eat a diet with meat and eggs and dairy and live a healthy life. The end.
and I will raise you this one.
Vegans and vegetarians who are female are at a greater risk for experiencing issues during pregnancy which can then be passed to their children.
The inability to absorb certain nutrients while pregnant and passing it onto your kids where it's permanent for them is one of the biggest reasons not be a vegetarian/vegan for a woman.
I believe it was fat that couldn't be absorbed but will find the link to show for sure...as well b12 etc.
https://chriskresser.com/why-you-should-think-twice-about-vegetarian-and-vegan-diets/
this isn't the link but see if I can find it.
The article you posted is completely biased as Chris resser is a man who is incapable of knowing what it's like to be pregnant. And, I get he posted resources, but not every person is the same. With a healthy pregnancy you need to exercise, take you daily prenatals, eat right and with that being said you need to know how to use proportions, you also need to moderate your stress levels, take frequent naps, don't do any heavy lifting. There are SO MANY factors that also have to be taken into consideration to having a healthy pregnancy
Also, if you've ever taken a women's health and wellness class you would know that any nutrients a baby is lacking or anything else it needs, it takes it directly from the mother whether they are vegetarian or not, which also goes to say that genetics also play a role in how the baby will turn out
I know lots of women who are vegetarian and vegan who have had a healthy pregnancy and healthy babies. Just because you're vegetarian or vegan doesn't mean you're at a higher risk for your prgnancy to lack nutrients cause the same thing can happen to a woman that is a carnivore.
http://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases_conditions/hic_Am_I_Pregnant/hic_Good_Nutrition_During_Pregnancy_for_You_and_Your_Baby/hic_Nutrition_During_Pregnancy_for_Vegetarians
That wasn't the link I wanted to post as I haven't found it yet...but my point is this.
There is an issue women who are vegan/vegetarian have while pregnant in absorbing certain fat if not all and if that isn't bad enough you can pass it onto your child and with them it's permanent...not temporary.
Along with B12 being too low which prenatles don't cover) if we were meant to be vegetarian we wouldn't have canine teeth for ripping meat...we wouldn't need the nutrients you can get from meat and not veggies...
being vegetarian/vegan is fine but don't paint it for somethign it's not...it is not natural.
I get that humans are omnivores, but to say we're "meant to eat meat" is wrong. We evolved over time. Not everyone has canines. And, not everyone can eat meat because of their health. I am one of those people who cannot eat meat for my health as it will cause me to become sick. My body does not provide the right enzymes in it to break down meat. So again I'm not making it for something it's not. I'm stating the facts that just cause you're vegetarian or vegan does not necessarily mean you will lack nutrients,omega 3's, or protiens in pregnancy or not.
I know that vegetarianism isn't for everyone, but I'm so tired of people trying to make up excuses or claiming that it's bad for your health from lack of iron, protein, and other nutrients just cause it didn't come from something that pumps blood through it. Plus B12's aren't that hard to consume they're in rice, dairy, nuts, soy products, nutritional yeast, and science has come a long way since then, so now there's supplements you can take and almost every store sells vitamins including B12 capsules.
I'd like to see the number on average of people who don't have canines...(without intervention of course|)
regardless I am not saying that eating meat is the end all to be all but I do know that due to being vegetarian that there are women who have caused health issues to their children...lifelong issues...where they can't eat certain things because their mothers were vegetarians (their mother suffered during pregnancy with a short term illness due to her not eating meat)
I know that unless you are careful people as a vegetarian/vegan have harder time with getting a balanced diet...
don't get me wrong...I have lots of friends who are vegetarians and I cook specifically for them...but they are vegetarian for moral reasons...animal rights etc...
I do not for one minute think it's something for a "diet" to lose weight etc.
If you are doing it for a valid good reason have at I support you...otherwise..smh.0 -
I'd like to see the number on average of people who don't have canines...(without intervention of course|)
Surely you're joking?
First of all, pretty much all mammals have "canine" teeth. Including herbivores.
Besides, our canines are not at all adapted for eating meat as they are way too small - just go look at the teeth of an omnivore like a dog and you'll see what real omnivore canines and teeth look like and how capable they are of easily tearing through meat. If anything, our teeth are indicative of us being herbivorous or on the herbivorous side of omnivorism (herbivore-carnivore is a spectrum, after all).
3 -
Whether you do it for ethics or your health, the only way to know how it works for you is to try it for a month or so. Maybe find an online group with experienced vegetarians to get a little coaching? Also, if you have a gp/internist, it might be worth touching base with that person to let him/her know your intention. You might get really valuable insight and advice specific to you.2
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