Time for a change?

firef1y72

It's been a couple of months since I was given the all clear to get back to lifting after a hernia repair and I've made pretty good progress in the 5 lifts in 5x5. I didn't even use the bar for the first week, using a wooden pole instead just practising form and feeling out how well I was recovering. I then moved on to a 7.5kg bar then 10kg then worked up to 20kg and above, adding either weight or reps each session.

I'm not quite back where I was with squats but happy enough with 47.5kg, at the same point with the row (which is a best for me and I hate the row). I've made great progress with the deadlift, I managed 77.5kg today which is less than 5kg off of bodyweight and a personal best.

But I'm really struggling with breaking 32.5kg on the bench, haven't even managed 5 sets of 5 despite many, many attempts with today's effort being 5/5/4/3/3. OHP is even worse I can't get above the 20kg bar with the same reps as bench. But I think that with ohp there's definitely a mental element as this morning I dropped down to the 10kg bar, loaded it up to 18.5kg total weight and whizzed through 5x5.

I'm seriously considering changing programmes to 5/3/1 to see if it helps me push through on both OHP and bench as well as get to bodyweight on dead (sort of aiming for 82.5kg or my bodyweight by Christmas).

I'm eating at a deficit of around 250 on average, try to keep my protein high and only consistently get 2 days a week to train (so I'll have to do 2 lifts plus accessories in each session).

So should I make the change or keep plodding along with 5x5

sammyliftsandeats

I had the same question a few weeks back and I was advised that if I was continuing to make progress on some of the lifts, to keep using the program.

Have you considered deloading to a lighter weight for a higher volume and then going back to your original weight?

What about fractional weights? Are those an option for you? If you get stuck at 32.5kg on the bench, then you can take off 2.5kg and then add on 1kg or something you'd be able to work with. The fractional weights come in .25kg increments so it might help.

firef1y72

samanthaluangphixay wrote: »

Have you considered deloading to a lighter weight for a higher volume and then going back to your original weight?

What about fractional weights? Are those an option for you? If you get stuck at 32.5kg on the bench, then you can take off 2.5kg and then add on 1kg or something you'd be able to work with. The fractional weights come in .25kg increments so it might help.

I actually had a deload day on Tuesday, working at lower weight and higher reps to see if that would help.

With the fractionals, the smallest plates for the 20kg bar are 1.25kg, so the smallest increase is 2.5kg. The plates for the 10kg bar do go down to 0.5kg, which was why I changed over to that bar for the OHP. Trouble is I use the real to bench (I'm pretty much the only one that uses the rack in the mornings so I'm not doing anyone else squatting and there are 2 squat racks) the 10kg bar just isn't a good fit and would be awkward to re-rack when almost at failure.

sammyliftsandeats

firef1y72 wrote: »

samanthaluangphixay wrote: »

Have you considered deloading to a lighter weight for a higher volume and then going back to your original weight?

What about fractional weights? Are those an option for you? If you get stuck at 32.5kg on the bench, then you can take off 2.5kg and then add on 1kg or something you'd be able to work with. The fractional weights come in .25kg increments so it might help.

I actually had a deload day on Tuesday, working at lower weight and higher reps to see if that would help.

With the fractionals, the smallest plates for the 20kg bar are 1.25kg, so the smallest increase is 2.5kg. The plates for the 10kg bar do go down to 0.5kg, which was why I changed over to that bar for the OHP. Trouble is I use the real to bench (I'm pretty much the only one that uses the rack in the mornings so I'm not doing anyone else squatting and there are 2 squat racks) the 10kg bar just isn't a good fit and would be awkward to re-rack when almost at failure.

Are the holes in the middle of the plates different sizes for the 20kg bar and the 10kg bar?

Fractionals for the 20kg bar are generally not available at the gym...you have to purchase them yourself and bring them in with you.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2/253-7853028-0596754?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=fractional+weights

Chieflrg

firef1y72 wrote: »

only consistently get 2 days a week to train (so I'll have to do 2 lifts plus accessories in each session).

So should I make the change or keep plodding along with 5x5

My guess this is your problem. Assuming you are running Strong Lifts since you mentioned OHP. The program is written for three days a week, not two. By only working two days, you not only expending more energy to do the lifts, you lose one day of volume.

Less energy & less volume means less strength.

You can switch to any program you want, but if you are not going to work the program you will have problems.

firef1y72

Chieflrg wrote: »

firef1y72 wrote: »

only consistently get 2 days a week to train (so I'll have to do 2 lifts plus accessories in each session).

So should I make the change or keep plodding along with 5x5

My guess this is your problem. Assuming you are running Strong Lifts since you mentioned OHP. The program is written for three days a week, not two. By only working two days, you not only expending more energy to do the lifts, you lose one day of volume.

Less energy & less volume means less strength.

You can switch to any program you want, but if you are not going to work the program you will have problems.

I have 2 young children and a partner that works shifts. The only days I can guarantee that I can get to the gym are when my littlest one is in preschool and the older in school. I'd love to be able to lift 3 or 4 times a week, but it's simply not possible. I can't lift at home because I live in a small flat and have no room plus my downstairs neighbour really wouldn't appreciate the noise. I can't get a babysitter either, my older bit is special needs and finding someone who we could trust to cope with him is simply cost prohibitive.

So I do the best I can and try to make the most of the time I have.

Chieflrg

Then find a program that runs two days a week would be the optimal solution.

Switching to 531 would give you the same problem.

jemhh

There are variations of 531 that are two day programs. I suggest getting the first book, as it will guide you.

firef1y72

jemhh wrote: »

There are variations of 531 that are two day programs. I suggest getting the first book, as it will guide you.

Thanks, the one I'd seen online was 2 lifts (plus accessories) a session lost the link now but I think it was

Day 1 : Squat, Press, accessories
Day 2 : Bench, Dead, accessories

So I'd still be pretty much getting a full body workout both days but won't be trying to progress at fast (which I think I need) but will still be making progress by adding reps to the last set.

Chieflrg

I forgot about that variation, which is odd because I think I used it a few years back. Sounds perfect for you. Thanks @jemhh for being on top .

jemhh

Chieflrg wrote: »

I forgot about that variation, which is odd because I think I used it a few years back. Sounds perfect for you. Thanks @jemhh for being on top .

Sure thing.

Not sure I would have remembered it myself a few weeks ago. I just switched over to the 2x2x2 from Beyond 5/3/1 so the subject is fresh in my brain.

cwolfman13

firef1y72 wrote: »

jemhh wrote: »

There are variations of 531 that are two day programs. I suggest getting the first book, as it will guide you.

Thanks, the one I'd seen online was 2 lifts (plus accessories) a session lost the link now but I think it was

Day 1 : Squat, Press, accessories
Day 2 : Bench, Dead, accessories

So I'd still be pretty much getting a full body workout both days but won't be trying to progress at fast (which I think I need) but will still be making progress by adding reps to the last set.

Exactly...I run a 2x per week program...when you do this, you have to reign in expectations...you're not going to progress in the same fashion as you would with higher volume.

I run mine due to my primary focus being cycling...basically, I lift to cross train and in support of my cycling and maintain the muscle mass that I have...not looking to put on mass and not looking to squat 500 Lbs...

I usually do meso-cycles of, say 4 weeks working most things in a 2x15 light weight...then four weeks of 3-4x10...then four weeks of 3-4x12...then 3-4x 8 and then I circle back around to 2x15...I find that this works best for me with my cycling.

Running heavy cycles kills my rides, so I usually only run them in the winter when I'm off season.

canadianlbs

i switched to wendler when my bench stalled. it was at least 60% a mental-health thing; i was just getting really sad and surly about constantly trying and constantly finding everything to be a huge fight. i think my trainer got tired of my sulking and moping, frankly.

many cycles and a couple of setbacks later, i just realised a few weeks ago that my top weight on bench has now reached the same point that sent me to wendler in the first place. and it's still quite a fight but there are two differences: the fights are far more mentally manageable because the worst you'll have to do for your 'worst' weight is one rep, and it always feels like you can do that one rep. so my mental state is much better approaching it. and then by the following week things will change anyway. the second thing is that even though my 'ceiling' hasn't changed much, my 'floor' certainly has. i've added at least 10 pounds to the minimum weight that i feel confidently sure i'd be able to do for, say, 3x5. same for the other lifts except squats which are a permanent retreat-and-retinker for me.

my showoff numbers haven't changed much. but 'ordinary' strength is definitely greater, and i like that a lot.

firef1y72

Just thought I'd come back to this post seeing as I've just started my second cycle. Squat and Deadlift are still below where I was with 5x5 (although I'm more confident in form), but I've seen relatively massive improvements in Press and Bench. I'd been stuck at 20kg for the press for a good couple of months, but had a calculated 1RPM of 25kg yesterday and as I had an extra gym day today I did some pyramid sets and managed to comfortably lift 26kg. Could have probably managed 27.5kg but didn't want to push it. My calculated 1RPM for bench has also jumped up from 32.5kg to 41kg (I'm hoping to test that out in a week or so). Even better according to http://strengthlevel.com/ both lifts have jumped from beginner to novice level.

mreichard

samanthaluangphixay wrote: »

Are the holes in the middle of the plates different sizes for the 20kg bar and the 10kg bar?

Fractionals for the 20kg bar are generally not available at the gym...you have to purchase them yourself and bring them in with you.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2/253-7853028-0596754?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=fractional+weights

This. I got 1.25 lb plates after deloading OHP and getting frustrated. Haven't deloaded since. I just go up by 2.5 lbs for every increase. I will usually also do 2-3 workouts at each weight, which I know SL says I shouldn't do, but it's much less frustrating than constantly failing.