What is the right amount of protein?
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »Harvard Med, USDA and other respected sources suggest 10-35% of daily calories from protein.
Which is stupid as hell without context, as are all percentages in relation to macro ratios.
All it means is that we can be healthy at a wide variety of protein intakes.
True, but it's so vague (and even wrong in some cases) as to be a completely useless suggestion. It could theoretically be used to justify 30g/day in a smaller dieter, or 400g/day in an endurance athlete.
It's part of a macro split recommendation developed by a bunch of people with PhD behind their names.
It might not be correct for the 5% or so of the population on extremely low calorie diets or extreme endurance athletes but fine for the rest of us.1 -
trigden1991 wrote: »jennypapaje wrote: »I recently followed a nutrition course in edx from the university of Wageningen and they said this:
The recommended daily allowance (RDA) for dietary protein in most countries is 0.8 gram per kg of bodyweight per day. That amounts to 56 grams for a 70 kg adult. Isolated protein deficiency is extremely rare in adults but may be observed in infants and children in developing countries. Most people eat substantially more protein than the RDA, ranging from 10-25% of the total energy intake. Protein intakes above 20% of total energy intake can only be achieved by very high consumption of meats, eggs and/or dairy products.
There is a lot of discussion about whether athletes and especially strength athletes, including bodybuilders, would benefit from a higher protein intake. The panel responsible for formulating the dietary recommendation in the US has taken the position that healthy adults undertaking resistance or endurance exercise do not require additional dietary protein. In contrast, the American Dietetic Association, Dietitians of Canada, and the American College of Sports Medicine recommend protein intakes for endurance and strength trained athletes from 1.2 to 1.7 gram per kg of bodyweight per day. These organizations have also stated that: "These recommended protein intakes can generally be met through diet alone, without the use of protein or amino acid supplements."
Protein shakes are food products and amino acids are not normally accounted for in daily protein intake.
Also the figure of 1.2-1.7g/kg is well below the universally accepted 0.8-1.2g/lbs of Lean body mass.
Universally accepted by whom? The heavy weightliftesr? All the science is published in units of g/kg, and the health organization values reflect the research, in units and quantity.6 -
I've done quite a bit of research over the years and this basically sums up my personal stance on the matter...
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/4 -
trigden1991 wrote: »jennypapaje wrote: »I recently followed a nutrition course in edx from the university of Wageningen and they said this:
The recommended daily allowance (RDA) for dietary protein in most countries is 0.8 gram per kg of bodyweight per day. That amounts to 56 grams for a 70 kg adult. Isolated protein deficiency is extremely rare in adults but may be observed in infants and children in developing countries. Most people eat substantially more protein than the RDA, ranging from 10-25% of the total energy intake. Protein intakes above 20% of total energy intake can only be achieved by very high consumption of meats, eggs and/or dairy products.
There is a lot of discussion about whether athletes and especially strength athletes, including bodybuilders, would benefit from a higher protein intake. The panel responsible for formulating the dietary recommendation in the US has taken the position that healthy adults undertaking resistance or endurance exercise do not require additional dietary protein. In contrast, the American Dietetic Association, Dietitians of Canada, and the American College of Sports Medicine recommend protein intakes for endurance and strength trained athletes from 1.2 to 1.7 gram per kg of bodyweight per day. These organizations have also stated that: "These recommended protein intakes can generally be met through diet alone, without the use of protein or amino acid supplements."
Protein shakes are food products and amino acids are not normally accounted for in daily protein intake.
Also the figure of 1.2-1.7g/kg is well below the universally accepted 0.8-1.2g/lbs of Lean body mass.
Universally accepted by whom? The heavy weightliftesr? All the science is published in units of g/kg, and the health organization values reflect the research, in units and quantity.
I suspect he converted or someone converted it. Generally, I see 1.5-2.2g/kg of weight.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »I've done quite a bit of research over the years and this basically sums up my personal stance on the matter...
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
okay, so reading through that. but the caption on the pic stopped me cold. . .will finish after giggle fit stops.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »I've done quite a bit of research over the years and this basically sums up my personal stance on the matter...
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
This pretty much agrees with everything I've read on the matter as well.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »I've done quite a bit of research over the years and this basically sums up my personal stance on the matter...
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
This pretty much agrees with everything I've read on the matter as well.
Yeah, me too. It's also pretty consistent with https://examine.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-i-need-every-day/
I like .65-.85g/lb of healthy body weight as a likely more than adequate amount for an active person at a deficit or trying to build muscle, and I tend to try to err toward the higher end (.8g) when at a deficit personally, but that's as much for satiety/what happens to work for me.0 -
I have a degenerative muscle disease and I see a big name neuromuscular specialist at a big university hospital. When figuring out my protein requirements ( which are higher than for a normal, health person) he used lean body mass, not body mass. It's an important distinction when figuring protein requirements, you can't just take your weight and multiply it by some number. Fat doesn't need protein!6
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I can't find the study but to build muscle .75 grams per pound body weight of protein is just enough to gain some mass. Most of the body builders I know will go low carb high protein moderate fat. In my current cut that's what I'm doing and I'm actually still getting stronger in my lifts (been dieting for 3 months) . I always say the more protein the better just because it's more filling. Carbs are just energy. Muscle cells are made of fat and protein. And just so you know baby formula is fat and protein so the baby can grow (go figure). I'd recommend watching Dave palumbo over at rx muscle who's a respected guru and retired bodybuilder. Imo finding just the he right amount of carbs for you to get through your day and workout will do a lot for you then you can adjust protein and fat for what your goals are2
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speed3_bobby wrote: »I can't find the study but to build muscle .75 grams per pound body weight of protein is just enough to gain some mass. Most of the body builders I know will go low carb high protein moderate fat. In my current cut that's what I'm doing and I'm actually still getting stronger in my lifts (been dieting for 3 months) . I always say the more protein the better just because it's more filling. Carbs are just energy. Muscle cells are made of fat and protein. And just so you know baby formula is fat and protein so the baby can grow (go figure). I'd recommend watching Dave palumbo over at rx muscle who's a respected guru and retired bodybuilder. Imo finding just the he right amount of carbs for you to get through your day and workout will do a lot for you then you can adjust protein and fat for what your goals are
Have you actually looked at the ingredients in baby formula or have a baby? Because I have a 1 year old and his formula is a lot more than just protein and fat. It actually has more grams of carbs than both protein and fats combined (2g of pro, 5g of fat, 10g of CHO). And carbs are more than just energy and very beneficial to building muscle. Carbs are anti-catabolic in nature and help prevent muscle degredation, and replenishes glycogen to maximize intensity. And while they are not necessary in a diet, it doesn't mean they aren't beneficial in a diet when you are trying to build muscle.12 -
I was just going to post that, but psulemon beat me to it:
Breast milk is pretty low protein: 4.2 g fat, 1.1 g protein, and 7.5 g carbs in 100 ml. That adds up to 72.2 calories/100 ml, of which 52% is fat, 6% is protein, and 42% is carbs (basically sugar).
Similac is similar, but a bit higher protein: 8% protein, 50% fat, 43% carbs.2 -
So, while the cited studies are interesting based on activity determining your protein requirements...I'd love to know the age ranges of the study subjects. Seems there are a number of studies that are starting to recognize that your age may also be a factor when trying to determine optimal protein levels.
I swear I saw someone post a study out of Australia that looked at protein requirements as you get older. In a nutshell, it stated that while the US RDA and other minimums of .8g/1kg was probably fine for 20 year olds, but as you aged to 40 or older, you actually needed more protein than the minimum and possibly needed up to double the minimums. I thought the high end of the scale was something like 1.6/1kg for those over 60. Unfortunately, I've never been able to find that post or found the link to the original study again (and would love to have it). Does anyone know/remember what I'm referencing? I regret not bookmarking it when I read it.0 -
speed3_bobby wrote: »I can't find the study but to build muscle .75 grams per pound body weight of protein is just enough to gain some mass. Most of the body builders I know will go low carb high protein moderate fat. In my current cut that's what I'm doing and I'm actually still getting stronger in my lifts (been dieting for 3 months) . I always say the more protein the better just because it's more filling. Carbs are just energy. Muscle cells are made of fat and protein. And just so you know baby formula is fat and protein so the baby can grow (go figure). I'd recommend watching Dave palumbo over at rx muscle who's a respected guru and retired bodybuilder. Imo finding just the he right amount of carbs for you to get through your day and workout will do a lot for you then you can adjust protein and fat for what your goals are
Comparing a baby growing, to an adult lifting weights to build muscle is absurd. Dave Palumbo probably has some good information for bodybuilders taking vast amounts of drugs but not for the average Joe.3 -
Just posted this on another thread but it is relevant to this discussion (especially if you are a young, overweight, male, interested in fat loss and muscle gain).
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/103/3/738.full
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So, while the cited studies are interesting based on activity determining your protein requirements...I'd love to know the age ranges of the study subjects. Seems there are a number of studies that are starting to recognize that your age may also be a factor when trying to determine optimal protein levels.
I swear I saw someone post a study out of Australia that looked at protein requirements as you get older. In a nutshell, it stated that while the US RDA and other minimums of .8g/1kg was probably fine for 20 year olds, but as you aged to 40 or older, you actually needed more protein than the minimum and possibly needed up to double the minimums. I thought the high end of the scale was something like 1.6/1kg for those over 60. Unfortunately, I've never been able to find that post or found the link to the original study again (and would love to have it). Does anyone know/remember what I'm referencing? I regret not bookmarking it when I read it.
Is this the one you were thinking of: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11382798 ? Pretty much confirms the RDA is too fricken low.0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Here's a separate question... how much is too much? I find protein to be the most filling macro (combined with fiber/starch), so I tend to go high with it for that reason.
I routinely have a CBC done twice a year by my rheumy and everything's fine, so I'm assuming no harm, no foul.
If you're water intake is sufficient and renal system healthy I don't know if there is a maximum. The only adverse effects I know of are where bodybuilders continue to ingest 300g and restrict water in their pre-competition routines and this causes kidney damage.
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I treat protein intake as a minimum. The only consequence I've experienced from loads of protein is constipation.1
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speed3_bobby wrote: »I can't find the study but to build muscle .75 grams per pound body weight of protein is just enough to gain some mass. Most of the body builders I know will go low carb high protein moderate fat. In my current cut that's what I'm doing and I'm actually still getting stronger in my lifts (been dieting for 3 months) . I always say the more protein the better just because it's more filling. Carbs are just energy. Muscle cells are made of fat and protein. And just so you know baby formula is fat and protein so the baby can grow (go figure). I'd recommend watching Dave palumbo over at rx muscle who's a respected guru and retired bodybuilder. Imo finding just the he right amount of carbs for you to get through your day and workout will do a lot for you then you can adjust protein and fat for what your goals are
Babies grow because of a trivial thing called growth hormone, not because of formula...4
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