How to do a successful bulk?
KrazyKrissyy
Posts: 322 Member
So apparently I've been on the low end of a healthy weight. I made a few posts here about how I looked, trying to recomp, low calorie intake, etc. My goal is to get more defined, and my trouble zones that carry the most fat and least muscle are glutes, thighs, and lower stomach. I've decided to stop trying to recomp and do a bulk instead. Am 5'6 and a week or so ago I was 125, however, I'm down another 2 pounds so am at 123 but still no change in my trouble zones. The most recent weight loss was unintentional by the way. I'm at the point where I'm losing weight without trying. So I need advice on how to turn it around and do a successful bulk without gaining a lot of fat + little muscle. Calorie intake used to be 1,000-1,200 but now I've been able to increase it to 1,400-1,600 with nut butters, dark chocolate, nuts, bananas, oils, protein powders, etc. Appetite was small and still is to a degree so any bulking advice would be great. Ps- I just started seeing a counselor on Monday, for my body image issues, so that's all being taken care of.
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Replies
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Is a bulk really a good idea if you've only just started seeing a therapist?
You will gain some fat.
If you're losing on 1400-1600 then you need to increase your cals till your weight is stable. Then add 200-250 extra to gain 0.5lbs per week.
Which lifting programme are you following?7 -
If you have "trouble zones" which you think carry fat now, then a bulk will only make these worse as you WILL gain muscle and fat.4
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trigden1991 wrote: »If you have "trouble zones" which you think carry fat now, then a bulk will only make these worse as you WILL gain muscle and fat.
What should I do then? Because last time I posted here, I was being encouraged not to lose anymore weight (it seemed like I was attacked, actually). My goal was/is to decrease more body fat. I'm aware that a bulk causes fat gain. What I mean is how to do a successful bulk as in gain more muscle than fat as opposed to mainly fat so I don't end up in square one when I was overweight 2 years ago or so.0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »Is a bulk really a good idea if you've only just started seeing a therapist?
You will gain some fat.
If you're losing on 1400-1600 then you need to increase your cals till your weight is stable. Then add 200-250 extra to gain 0.5lbs per week.
Which lifting programme are you following?
None. I'm doing my own lifting routine at the moment. I'm not too familiar with the different fitness programs (including the lifting ones). When I was overweight, I didn't even follow any fitness programs to lose all the unwanted weight I had (excluding the most recent 2 pounds).0 -
KrazyKrissyy wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »If you have "trouble zones" which you think carry fat now, then a bulk will only make these worse as you WILL gain muscle and fat.
What should I do then? Because last time I posted here, I was being encouraged not to lose anymore weight (it seemed like I was attacked, actually). My goal was/is to decrease more body fat. I'm aware that a bulk causes fat gain. What I mean is how to do a successful bulk as in gain more muscle than fat as opposed to mainly fat so I don't end up in square one when I was overweight 2 years ago or so.
Eat in a small surplus for the least fat gains.1 -
KrazyKrissyy wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »If you have "trouble zones" which you think carry fat now, then a bulk will only make these worse as you WILL gain muscle and fat.
What should I do then? Because last time I posted here, I was being encouraged not to lose anymore weight (it seemed like I was attacked, actually). My goal was/is to decrease more body fat. I'm aware that a bulk causes fat gain. What I mean is how to do a successful bulk as in gain more muscle than fat as opposed to mainly fat so I don't end up in square one when I was overweight 2 years ago or so.
Well as a women, you would gain about 25% muscle / 75% fat under good conditions (moderate surplus + a solid progressive overload lifting program). But I wouldn't recommend a bulk for you. I would probably work a recomp and get your calories up to maintenance (which they still aren't). Get your calories around 1800-2000, protein around 130g and follow one of the progressive overload lifting programs in the below. Many women tend to gravitate towards NROL4W or StrongCurves.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p13 -
KrazyKrissyy wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Is a bulk really a good idea if you've only just started seeing a therapist?
You will gain some fat.
If you're losing on 1400-1600 then you need to increase your cals till your weight is stable. Then add 200-250 extra to gain 0.5lbs per week.
Which lifting programme are you following?
None. I'm doing my own lifting routine at the moment. I'm not too familiar with the different fitness programs (including the lifting ones). When I was overweight, I didn't even follow any fitness programs to lose all the unwanted weight I had (excluding the most recent 2 pounds).
I'd recommend, before even trying to gain (due to the body image issues mentioned in OP), getting on a beginner's strength program. There are many types of programs - I was just going to search for the thread, but I see, when opening another window, that psulemon has posted, so I'm betting he's posted the link - that may appeal to you.
Once you get started, and when you and your counselor believe it's a good time to start, then start bulking with maybe a 250 Calorie max surplus.1 -
Carbs from things like wheat, rice, oatmeal and other grains will put the most weight on you. Whole grains are the best way to go. Gaining fat while bulking is the reality of the process. You should lift heavy, anywhere between 5 to 20 reps per set. I'd say about 4 sets per exercise. About four exercises per muscle group, or until you feel you tore it up well enough for the week. The idea is to work a particular muscle group pretty hard once a week, so it gets plenty of time to recover before hitting it again. You can just do chest, back, then legs, working out only three times a week. Or do chest, back, legs, arm & delts, and core, for five days a week workout. The fat laying on top of your muscles will make sure they're getting well fed. Then, after about 3 months or so of that, you can cut back on the carbs to reveal the muscles hiding below the surface. That's what bodybuilders do.0
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mgalovic01 wrote: »Carbs from things like wheat, rice, oatmeal and other grains will put the most weight on you. Whole grains are the best way to go. Gaining fat while bulking is the reality of the process. You should lift heavy, anywhere between 5 to 20 reps per set. I'd say about 4 sets per exercise. About four exercises per muscle group, or until you feel you tore it up well enough for the week. The idea is to work a particular muscle group pretty hard once a week, so it gets plenty of time to recover before hitting it again. You can just do chest, back, then legs, working out only three times a week. Or do chest, back, legs, arm & delts, and core, for five days a week workout. The fat laying on top of your muscles will make sure they're getting well fed. Then, after about 3 months or so of that, you can cut back on the carbs to reveal the muscles hiding below the surface. That's what bodybuilders do.
The OP would much better be suited for a beginner full body routine, than following a bro-split; she isn't well versed enough to have the need to spend a lot of time of isometric moves). It would be more optimal to concentrate on the big 4 (OHP, Bench, DL, Squat). Also, manipulation of carbs doesn't matter unless it gets them into a correct energy state (catabolic vs anabolic).6 -
pretty sure someone mentioned a recomp for you in another thread. which is eating in maintenance and finding a progressive lifting program. you are not going to see fast results in trouble areas no matter what you do, you have to work at it, heck Ive been at this 4 years and still have trouble areas that are slowly working themselves down/out.you need to work with your therapist first and realize that sometimes your body will look a certain way no matter what,you have to learn to accept any flaws you may have.
even professionals body builders,athletes,etc all have trouble areas,even fitness models when they sit down have some trouble areas,it may not be my much but it still happens. no one has a perfect body and a lot of what you see in pics online or in magazines (I know you didnt say anything about this) of these people their flaws are airbrushed out,and they manipulate lighting to make things appear better than they really are.even if you recomp its going to take awhile for you to change how your body looks.Bulking will be the same its slow going for us women.you also can only lose so much fat at a time as well.
You need to at least be eating in maintenance for now(since you arent trying to lose weight) to do a recomp,it takes time and I mean months,maybe even longer.you have to be patient.3 -
CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »pretty sure someone mentioned a recomp for you in another thread. which is eating in maintenance and finding a progressive lifting program. you are not going to see fast results in trouble areas no matter what you do, you have to work at it, heck Ive been at this 4 years and still have trouble areas that are slowly working themselves down/out.you need to work with your therapist first and realize that sometimes your body will look a certain way no matter what,you have to learn to accept any flaws you may have.
even professionals body builders,athletes,etc all have trouble areas,even fitness models when they sit down have some trouble areas,it may not be my much but it still happens. no one has a perfect body and a lot of what you see in pics online or in magazines (I know you didnt say anything about this) of these people their flaws are airbrushed out,and they manipulate lighting to make things appear better than they really are.even if you recomp its going to take awhile for you to change how your body looks.Bulking will be the same its slow going for us women.you also can only lose so much fat at a time as well.
You need to at least be eating in maintenance for now(since you arent trying to lose weight) to do a recomp,it takes time and I mean months,maybe even longer.you have to be patient.
Ok, thanks for this. And yeah I think someone did mention recomp back in that other post. I then went from 1,000-1,200 to 1,400-1,600 and was/am still losing weight which brought me to the decision of bulking instead of failing recomp, (if bulking can be done with mostly muscle gain and what I need to change to do it. Apparently not, according to the guys here who responded.
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KrazyKrissyy wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »If you have "trouble zones" which you think carry fat now, then a bulk will only make these worse as you WILL gain muscle and fat.
What should I do then? Because last time I posted here, I was being encouraged not to lose anymore weight (it seemed like I was attacked, actually). My goal was/is to decrease more body fat. I'm aware that a bulk causes fat gain. What I mean is how to do a successful bulk as in gain more muscle than fat as opposed to mainly fat so I don't end up in square one when I was overweight 2 years ago or so.
Well as a women, you would gain about 25% muscle / 75% fat under good conditions (moderate surplus + a solid progressive overload lifting program). But I wouldn't recommend a bulk for you. I would probably work a recomp and get your calories up to maintenance (which they still aren't). Get your calories around 1800-2000, protein around 130g and follow one of the progressive overload lifting programs in the below. Many women tend to gravitate towards NROL4W or StrongCurves.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
Ok, I'll look into the StrongCurves. Thanks.0 -
KrazyKrissyy wrote: »KrazyKrissyy wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »If you have "trouble zones" which you think carry fat now, then a bulk will only make these worse as you WILL gain muscle and fat.
What should I do then? Because last time I posted here, I was being encouraged not to lose anymore weight (it seemed like I was attacked, actually). My goal was/is to decrease more body fat. I'm aware that a bulk causes fat gain. What I mean is how to do a successful bulk as in gain more muscle than fat as opposed to mainly fat so I don't end up in square one when I was overweight 2 years ago or so.
Well as a women, you would gain about 25% muscle / 75% fat under good conditions (moderate surplus + a solid progressive overload lifting program). But I wouldn't recommend a bulk for you. I would probably work a recomp and get your calories up to maintenance (which they still aren't). Get your calories around 1800-2000, protein around 130g and follow one of the progressive overload lifting programs in the below. Many women tend to gravitate towards NROL4W or StrongCurves.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
Ok, I'll look into the StrongCurves. Thanks.
Cool, the bigger thing is also getting your calories up a bit more to stop weight loss. If you have more questions, let us know.1 -
KrazyKrissyy wrote: »KrazyKrissyy wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »If you have "trouble zones" which you think carry fat now, then a bulk will only make these worse as you WILL gain muscle and fat.
What should I do then? Because last time I posted here, I was being encouraged not to lose anymore weight (it seemed like I was attacked, actually). My goal was/is to decrease more body fat. I'm aware that a bulk causes fat gain. What I mean is how to do a successful bulk as in gain more muscle than fat as opposed to mainly fat so I don't end up in square one when I was overweight 2 years ago or so.
Well as a women, you would gain about 25% muscle / 75% fat under good conditions (moderate surplus + a solid progressive overload lifting program). But I wouldn't recommend a bulk for you. I would probably work a recomp and get your calories up to maintenance (which they still aren't). Get your calories around 1800-2000, protein around 130g and follow one of the progressive overload lifting programs in the below. Many women tend to gravitate towards NROL4W or StrongCurves.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
Ok, I'll look into the StrongCurves. Thanks.
Cool, the bigger thing is also getting your calories up a bit more to stop weight loss. If you have more questions, let us know.
If I still lose at 1,600 then what is my maintenance? How to find out the closest exact?
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mgalovic01 wrote: »Carbs from things like wheat, rice, oatmeal and other grains will put the most weight on you. Whole grains are the best way to go. Gaining fat while bulking is the reality of the process. You should lift heavy, anywhere between 5 to 20 reps per set. I'd say about 4 sets per exercise. About four exercises per muscle group, or until you feel you tore it up well enough for the week. The idea is to work a particular muscle group pretty hard once a week, so it gets plenty of time to recover before hitting it again. You can just do chest, back, then legs, working out only three times a week. Or do chest, back, legs, arm & delts, and core, for five days a week workout. The fat laying on top of your muscles will make sure they're getting well fed. Then, after about 3 months or so of that, you can cut back on the carbs to reveal the muscles hiding below the surface. That's what bodybuilders do.
The OP would much better be suited for a beginner full body routine, than following a bro-split; she isn't well versed enough to have the need to spend a lot of time of isometric moves). It would be more optimal to concentrate on the big 4 (OHP, Bench, DL, Squat). Also, manipulation of carbs doesn't matter unless it gets them into a correct energy state (catabolic vs anabolic).
Though the full body routine is usually better for beginners, before attacking the muscles in the way I mentioned, some people just rather jump right into it. They don't want to do a whole bunch of different exercises each training session, when all they're interested in is creating more muscle mass. I didn't recommend any isometric movements. Though I agree with the big four when it comes to building muscle mass and functional strength, I wouldn't mind if the beginner didn't do them. You can see good results without them. People new to those exercises should start light and concentrate on developing good form. That's going to slow them down. Whereas, they could blast the muscles, going hard on machines, with much less risk of getting hurt. Eating about every 3 hours should keep them in an anabolic state.0 -
KrazyKrissyy wrote: »KrazyKrissyy wrote: »KrazyKrissyy wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »If you have "trouble zones" which you think carry fat now, then a bulk will only make these worse as you WILL gain muscle and fat.
What should I do then? Because last time I posted here, I was being encouraged not to lose anymore weight (it seemed like I was attacked, actually). My goal was/is to decrease more body fat. I'm aware that a bulk causes fat gain. What I mean is how to do a successful bulk as in gain more muscle than fat as opposed to mainly fat so I don't end up in square one when I was overweight 2 years ago or so.
Well as a women, you would gain about 25% muscle / 75% fat under good conditions (moderate surplus + a solid progressive overload lifting program). But I wouldn't recommend a bulk for you. I would probably work a recomp and get your calories up to maintenance (which they still aren't). Get your calories around 1800-2000, protein around 130g and follow one of the progressive overload lifting programs in the below. Many women tend to gravitate towards NROL4W or StrongCurves.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
Ok, I'll look into the StrongCurves. Thanks.
Cool, the bigger thing is also getting your calories up a bit more to stop weight loss. If you have more questions, let us know.
If I still lose at 1,600 then what is my maintenance? How to find out the closest exact?
More than 1600. I know that sounds flippant, but that's all anyone can truly say. Try 1700 for a week or so. If you're still losing, try 1800 for a week or so. Repeat until you maintain a weight range of +/- 5 lb or so for a month or so.1 -
mgalovic01 wrote: »mgalovic01 wrote: »Carbs from things like wheat, rice, oatmeal and other grains will put the most weight on you. Whole grains are the best way to go. Gaining fat while bulking is the reality of the process. You should lift heavy, anywhere between 5 to 20 reps per set. I'd say about 4 sets per exercise. About four exercises per muscle group, or until you feel you tore it up well enough for the week. The idea is to work a particular muscle group pretty hard once a week, so it gets plenty of time to recover before hitting it again. You can just do chest, back, then legs, working out only three times a week. Or do chest, back, legs, arm & delts, and core, for five days a week workout. The fat laying on top of your muscles will make sure they're getting well fed. Then, after about 3 months or so of that, you can cut back on the carbs to reveal the muscles hiding below the surface. That's what bodybuilders do.
The OP would much better be suited for a beginner full body routine, than following a bro-split; she isn't well versed enough to have the need to spend a lot of time of isometric moves). It would be more optimal to concentrate on the big 4 (OHP, Bench, DL, Squat). Also, manipulation of carbs doesn't matter unless it gets them into a correct energy state (catabolic vs anabolic).
Though the full body routine is usually better for beginners, before attacking the muscles in the way I mentioned, some people just rather jump right into it. They don't want to do a whole bunch of different exercises each training session, when all they're interested in is creating more muscle mass. I didn't recommend any isometric movements. Though I agree with the big four when it comes to building muscle mass and functional strength, I wouldn't mind if the beginner didn't do them. You can see good results without them. People new to those exercises should start light and concentrate on developing good form. That's going to slow them down. Whereas, they could blast the muscles, going hard on machines, with much less risk of getting hurt. Eating about every 3 hours should keep them in an anabolic state.
This is terrible advice. Remember that other thread, where I shared how I've gotten the one hernia I've had in my entire life? It was on a machine, doing preacher curls. Please stop giving out such bad advice.
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CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote: »You need to at least be eating in maintenance for now(since you arent trying to lose weight) to do a recomp,it takes time and I mean months,maybe even longer.you have to be patient.
Yep, 6 months or so would be a starting point for a recomp, around 24 weeks.
Roughly twice the length of a standard 12-week program of equivalent "weight" loss.
If you are a beginner then StrongLifts5x5 or Thinner Leaner Stronger is somewhere to start.
TLS will also teach you about what to eat and why.0 -
KrazyKrissyy wrote: »KrazyKrissyy wrote: »KrazyKrissyy wrote: »trigden1991 wrote: »If you have "trouble zones" which you think carry fat now, then a bulk will only make these worse as you WILL gain muscle and fat.
What should I do then? Because last time I posted here, I was being encouraged not to lose anymore weight (it seemed like I was attacked, actually). My goal was/is to decrease more body fat. I'm aware that a bulk causes fat gain. What I mean is how to do a successful bulk as in gain more muscle than fat as opposed to mainly fat so I don't end up in square one when I was overweight 2 years ago or so.
Well as a women, you would gain about 25% muscle / 75% fat under good conditions (moderate surplus + a solid progressive overload lifting program). But I wouldn't recommend a bulk for you. I would probably work a recomp and get your calories up to maintenance (which they still aren't). Get your calories around 1800-2000, protein around 130g and follow one of the progressive overload lifting programs in the below. Many women tend to gravitate towards NROL4W or StrongCurves.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1
Ok, I'll look into the StrongCurves. Thanks.
Cool, the bigger thing is also getting your calories up a bit more to stop weight loss. If you have more questions, let us know.
If I still lose at 1,600 then what is my maintenance? How to find out the closest exact?
Based on your last thread, your maintenance is around 1800-2000.2 -
mgalovic01 wrote: »mgalovic01 wrote: »Carbs from things like wheat, rice, oatmeal and other grains will put the most weight on you. Whole grains are the best way to go. Gaining fat while bulking is the reality of the process. You should lift heavy, anywhere between 5 to 20 reps per set. I'd say about 4 sets per exercise. About four exercises per muscle group, or until you feel you tore it up well enough for the week. The idea is to work a particular muscle group pretty hard once a week, so it gets plenty of time to recover before hitting it again. You can just do chest, back, then legs, working out only three times a week. Or do chest, back, legs, arm & delts, and core, for five days a week workout. The fat laying on top of your muscles will make sure they're getting well fed. Then, after about 3 months or so of that, you can cut back on the carbs to reveal the muscles hiding below the surface. That's what bodybuilders do.
The OP would much better be suited for a beginner full body routine, than following a bro-split; she isn't well versed enough to have the need to spend a lot of time of isometric moves). It would be more optimal to concentrate on the big 4 (OHP, Bench, DL, Squat). Also, manipulation of carbs doesn't matter unless it gets them into a correct energy state (catabolic vs anabolic).
Though the full body routine is usually better for beginners, before attacking the muscles in the way I mentioned, some people just rather jump right into it. They don't want to do a whole bunch of different exercises each training session, when all they're interested in is creating more muscle mass. I didn't recommend any isometric movements. Though I agree with the big four when it comes to building muscle mass and functional strength, I wouldn't mind if the beginner didn't do them. You can see good results without them. People new to those exercises should start light and concentrate on developing good form. That's going to slow them down. Whereas, they could blast the muscles, going hard on machines, with much less risk of getting hurt. Eating about every 3 hours should keep them in an anabolic state.
I agree a person should have good form. That is indisputable. And the OP may benefit from working with the trainer or posting videos to get corrections. But there is no need to waste time on machines and "blast" the muscles. The advantage to StrongCurves, is that it starts you from very basic and progresses from there. it full expends you are a noob who has little to no experience.
And eating every 3 hours does not guarantee an anabolic state. That is just broscience.4
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