And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate

leooftheyear
leooftheyear Posts: 429 Member
edited November 13 in Health and Weight Loss
Baby, I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake
I shake it off, I shake it off

In all seriousness, many of you have experienced some hate when you started your journey. This is an amazing article which was posted in my strength training group. I figured I'd post it here as a little reminder to keep doing you and don't let the negativity get to you

https://www.t-nation.com/powerful-words/action-offends-the-inactive
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Replies

  • leooftheyear
    leooftheyear Posts: 429 Member
    my main source of negativity is actually from both of my parents, I rarely talk about gym or food with them as I'm living 700miles away. Their source of negativity is either telling me I'm not doing enough and need to lose weight faster, I'm doing too much or I'm not doing something right.
  • nutmegoreo
    nutmegoreo Posts: 15,532 Member
    leooftheyear wrote: »
    my main source of negativity is actually from both of my parents, I rarely talk about gym or food with them as I'm living 700miles away. Their source of negativity is either telling me I'm not doing enough and need to lose weight faster, I'm doing too much or I'm not doing something right.

    Sounds like and issue with your parents then. My mom is like that. Nothing was ever good enough. I learned to do my own thing. It can certainly be difficult. Letting it go and accepting that I was doing my own thing for myself was the best moment. Best of luck to you.
  • Sara1791
    Sara1791 Posts: 760 Member
    I've read about this but I've never ever experienced it. To a man everyone has been positive and encouraging. I think I've even inspired some people to make positive changes themselves. Maybe because I keep my circle small? Maybe because I don't give a kitten what most people think. Maybe because I don't expect other people to change in order to accomodate my needs.

    I believe others when they say it happens to them. I'm just glad I seem to be immune.
  • kzooyogi
    kzooyogi Posts: 121 Member
    I love this. I've experienced the exact situation before, the first time I started to lose weight, and now at least once per week for being vegan. I interpret that very much the same way - I've always wondered if they're giving me grief simply because I'm bettering myself, the environment, and the lives of animals, and they're not. Or maybe it's because my vegan diet requires a high degree of self-discipline - something maybe they're lacking themselves? "A little bacon every now and then won't kill you," they say... I usually follow with some sort of snarky comment, such as "I really appreciate your unsolicited advice, thanks!"
  • leooftheyear
    leooftheyear Posts: 429 Member
    kzooyogi wrote: »
    I love this. I've experienced the exact situation before, the first time I started to lose weight, and now at least once per week for being vegan. I interpret that very much the same way - I've always wondered if they're giving me grief simply because I'm bettering myself, the environment, and the lives of animals, and they're not. Or maybe it's because my vegan diet requires a high degree of self-discipline - something maybe they're lacking themselves? "A little bacon every now and then won't kill you," they say... I usually follow with some sort of snarky comment, such as "I really appreciate your unsolicited advice, thanks!"

    I felt that the 'negativity' I got from my parents was from their lack of self control. I was talking to my mom about me going to get brunch with my dad and aunt and she was all concerned that 'i'll eat unhealthy' and I said 'they order crap and I order eggs, toast and fruit and it doesn't both me' she was like 'but you know you want pancakes' actually no because Denny's pancakes are good for hangover food but that's about it XD

    Even to the point where whenever I hurt myself, I'm super graceful XD, my mom said 'well if you hurt yourself you must be doing something wrong' and shes always super negative about me lifting, and I hardly every bring it up to her because of that. my most recent injury was my ankle, I rolled it after I had a little too much wine at girls night, and my response to her was 'yes, I had too much wine and tripped on the sidewalk XD'
  • leooftheyear
    leooftheyear Posts: 429 Member
    leanjogreen18 wrote: »
    Have vegan family and friends, the ones who don't talk about their diet get zero flack.

    I've mentioned about 20 times or more in posts that I don't eat meat and not one single person has given me any negativity/shade on these forums.

    Maybe think about what you might be saying to elicit shade? Idk

    Problem is I have avoided the topic, almost all together, with my parents, because I get negativity, so its definitely not that. They bring it up on their own, like when I was home for thanksgiving I had tape on my ankle, because I twisted it, and out of nowhere, without being provoked my mom goes 'if you keep injuring yourself you must be doing something wrong'. I had not brought up strength training, diet or anything because I had just woken up.
  • leooftheyear
    leooftheyear Posts: 429 Member
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    PuppetPrincess wrote: »
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    I think if you are getting "hate" from enacting a new routine, it may be worth asking yourself how much you are talking about it. I don't generally share what I'm doing, people rarely ask. It's the overly excited, must tell everyone every little detail that seems to get the "hate" because they are annoyingly single point focused. Hate is in quotes, because the word is (IMO) strong and overused.

    You don't always have to talk about your changes for people to notice. I used to get weird comments from my coworkers when they would see my "way too healthy" lunches. I didn't tell them I was dieting or lifting weights. They would just feel bad about themselves because they would see me eating fruit and veggies while they ate cake for lunch.

    So comments = hate? I don't get that at all. When I was down 45lbs, it's obvious to those around me. They would make comments, but it was more about talking about what they were doing to try to lose weight. Your assumptions about their motives sounds really judgmental (I read a similar comment from you in another thread). I'm sorry you feel the need to put others down so much.

    Not saying comments = hate, but negative comments (e.g. 'you must be doing something wrong') do equal 'hate'. at least in my book. especially when the comments are completely unprovoked and I did not bring up weight, strength training, or anything related.
  • leooftheyear
    leooftheyear Posts: 429 Member
    leanjogreen18 wrote: »
    leooftheyear wrote: »
    my main source of negativity is actually from both of my parents, I rarely talk about gym or food with them as I'm living 700miles away. Their source of negativity is either telling me I'm not doing enough and need to lose weight faster, I'm doing too much or I'm not doing something right.

    Don't get "hate" and parental concern mixed up. Parents seem to always "correct" their child no matter the age. My mom still says something about my dryer lint when she visits and I'm 50

    well if its that then their parental concern only comes up when related to the gym, diet, etc and it's always negative (e.g. I ended up in tears on thanksgiving)
  • ksenya03
    ksenya03 Posts: 51 Member
    I don't understand all the posts I see about "hate" comments for losing weight or making lifestyle changes. Maybe I've just been incredibly fortunate in my family, friends, classmates, and workers, but people my life either have said nothing (most) or have made encouraging comments (few).
  • leanjogreen18
    leanjogreen18 Posts: 2,492 Member
    leooftheyear wrote: »
    leanjogreen18 wrote: »
    Have vegan family and friends, the ones who don't talk about their diet get zero flack.

    I've mentioned about 20 times or more in posts that I don't eat meat and not one single person has given me any negativity/shade on these forums.

    Maybe think about what you might be saying to elicit shade? Idk

    Problem is I have avoided the topic, almost all together, with my parents, because I get negativity, so its definitely not that. They bring it up on their own, like when I was home for thanksgiving I had tape on my ankle, because I twisted it, and out of nowhere, without being provoked my mom goes 'if you keep injuring yourself you must be doing something wrong'. I had not brought up strength training, diet or anything because I had just woken up.

    lol. Yeah but parents get a pass because they are always concerned:) My poor kids:).
  • nutmegoreo
    nutmegoreo Posts: 15,532 Member
    leooftheyear wrote: »
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    PuppetPrincess wrote: »
    nutmegoreo wrote: »
    I think if you are getting "hate" from enacting a new routine, it may be worth asking yourself how much you are talking about it. I don't generally share what I'm doing, people rarely ask. It's the overly excited, must tell everyone every little detail that seems to get the "hate" because they are annoyingly single point focused. Hate is in quotes, because the word is (IMO) strong and overused.

    You don't always have to talk about your changes for people to notice. I used to get weird comments from my coworkers when they would see my "way too healthy" lunches. I didn't tell them I was dieting or lifting weights. They would just feel bad about themselves because they would see me eating fruit and veggies while they ate cake for lunch.

    So comments = hate? I don't get that at all. When I was down 45lbs, it's obvious to those around me. They would make comments, but it was more about talking about what they were doing to try to lose weight. Your assumptions about their motives sounds really judgmental (I read a similar comment from you in another thread). I'm sorry you feel the need to put others down so much.

    Not saying comments = hate, but negative comments (e.g. 'you must be doing something wrong') do equal 'hate'. at least in my book. especially when the comments are completely unprovoked and I did not bring up weight, strength training, or anything related.

    I wouldn't call it hate. It could be lack of knowledge. Relationships with parents can be challenging. I'm sorry that your parents feel the need to make these comments. Like I said previously, letting go of those things (with my mother) was the best thing I ever did.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,455 Member
    Your mom is who she is. Why do you expect her to be other wise?

    Forgive her and move on. This is a way over the top reaction to some pretty normal (lots of people talk like this) comments.
  • leanjogreen18
    leanjogreen18 Posts: 2,492 Member
    leooftheyear wrote: »
    leanjogreen18 wrote: »
    leooftheyear wrote: »
    my main source of negativity is actually from both of my parents, I rarely talk about gym or food with them as I'm living 700miles away. Their source of negativity is either telling me I'm not doing enough and need to lose weight faster, I'm doing too much or I'm not doing something right.

    Don't get "hate" and parental concern mixed up. Parents seem to always "correct" their child no matter the age. My mom still says something about my dryer lint when she visits and I'm 50

    well if its that then their parental concern only comes up when related to the gym, diet, etc and it's always negative (e.g. I ended up in tears on thanksgiving)

    I'm sorry there is a sensitive line between parents and children.

    Maybe try to see it as concern instead of negativity (even if it is)? Maybe try not to care so much what they say? Maybe you can just laugh it off?

    Point is you can't control others but you can control your reactions. best of luck!
  • kzooyogi
    kzooyogi Posts: 121 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    kzooyogi wrote: »
    I love this. I've experienced the exact situation before, the first time I started to lose weight, and now at least once per week for being vegan. I interpret that very much the same way - I've always wondered if they're giving me grief simply because I'm bettering myself, the environment, and the lives of animals, and they're not. Or maybe it's because my vegan diet requires a high degree of self-discipline - something maybe they're lacking themselves? "A little bacon every now and then won't kill you," they say... I usually follow with some sort of snarky comment, such as "I really appreciate your unsolicited advice, thanks!"

    Maybe it's because they're picking up on your attitude that they aren't "bettering themselves" because they aren't vegan. I've been vegan for ten years and I will say it's just one portion of how I choose to interact with other individuals. There are many non-vegans who are doing more for themselves and the world than I will ever do. Just because someone isn't vegan it doesn't mean that they aren't also doing valuable things for themselves or the world.

    Do I wish animal exploitation would end? Absolutely. But it's just one piece of the work that needs to be done for a better world and people who aren't vegan may be doing other things that are incredibly valuable and important. They may also be exercising self-discipline in areas of their lives that are important to them, as important to them as my veganism is to me.

    Are they really "haters"? Or are they people who have accurately picked up what you're thinking and assuming about them and are reacting to that?

    Are all of them haters? No, absolutely not. Furthermore, I feel it unfair that I'm assumed to be thinking any negative thoughts or assumptions about them. The ones who are haters, who do give me attitude (as a vegan, I'm sure you've experienced them, too), I will absolutely stand up for myself. I do my best not to rub my diet choices in anyone else's faces, even going so far as to not use the term "vegan" (instead, I'll just respectfully say, "Sorry, I don't eat meat/dairy/eggs/whatever they're offering me that's non-vegan). Many, many meat eaters offer me the same respect, but many also do not. Many of them say, "You're taking away from animals' food by eating plants, so how is being a vegan helping animals?" etc. And, I assure you, they're not just doing it to joke around. They're doing it to belittle my morals, views, and choices. Those, I think you would agree, are ones that are considered "haters".

    I do my best to offer absolutely ZERO judgment of people who eat meat, because, like you say, they absolutely can be doing great things to change the world. And I agree, diet is only one very small part of the larger work to be done. I certainly don't think that being vegan is the only thing that you can do to better yourself, and I'm adamant that a vegan diet is just plain unhealthy for some people.

    Not every omnivore is a hater, and not every vegan is pushy for all omnivores to be vegan, either. I will always hold space for those who don't choose to live their lives exactly like I do. However, I will also not stand aside and let my choices be belittled just because they're different from someone else's, and that someone else chooses to bully me for it. The point of my comment was, I have always wondered if those who choose to bully me for being vegan are doing it for a reason similar to the content of the article - because, by being vegan, I'm possessing some sort of quality that they are offended by, perhaps because they don't also possess it? Please, let's not get away from the meaning behind my original post, just because I admitted that I am human and will stand up for myself and get snarky if I have to.
  • cmriverside
    cmriverside Posts: 34,455 Member
    edited December 2016
    Well, that escalated quickly.

    *edit to add quote*

    kzooyogi wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    kzooyogi wrote: »
    I love this. I've experienced the exact situation before, the first time I started to lose weight, and now at least once per week for being vegan. I interpret that very much the same way - I've always wondered if they're giving me grief simply because I'm bettering myself, the environment, and the lives of animals, and they're not. Or maybe it's because my vegan diet requires a high degree of self-discipline - something maybe they're lacking themselves? "A little bacon every now and then won't kill you," they say... I usually follow with some sort of snarky comment, such as "I really appreciate your unsolicited advice, thanks!"

    Maybe it's because they're picking up on your attitude that they aren't "bettering themselves" because they aren't vegan. I've been vegan for ten years and I will say it's just one portion of how I choose to interact with other individuals. There are many non-vegans who are doing more for themselves and the world than I will ever do. Just because someone isn't vegan it doesn't mean that they aren't also doing valuable things for themselves or the world.

    Do I wish animal exploitation would end? Absolutely. But it's just one piece of the work that needs to be done for a better world and people who aren't vegan may be doing other things that are incredibly valuable and important. They may also be exercising self-discipline in areas of their lives that are important to them, as important to them as my veganism is to me.

    Are they really "haters"? Or are they people who have accurately picked up what you're thinking and assuming about them and are reacting to that?

    Are all of them haters? No, absolutely not. Furthermore, I feel it unfair that I'm assumed to be thinking any negative thoughts or assumptions about them. The ones who are haters, who do give me attitude (as a vegan, I'm sure you've experienced them, too), I will absolutely stand up for myself. I do my best not to rub my diet choices in anyone else's faces, even going so far as to not use the term "vegan" (instead, I'll just respectfully say, "Sorry, I don't eat meat/dairy/eggs/whatever they're offering me that's non-vegan). Many, many meat eaters offer me the same respect, but many also do not. Many of them say, "You're taking away from animals' food by eating plants, so how is being a vegan helping animals?" etc. And, I assure you, they're not just doing it to joke around. They're doing it to belittle my morals, views, and choices. Those, I think you would agree, are ones that are considered "haters".

    I do my best to offer absolutely ZERO judgment of people who eat meat, because, like you say, they absolutely can be doing great things to change the world. And I agree, diet is only one very small part of the larger work to be done. I certainly don't think that being vegan is the only thing that you can do to better yourself, and I'm adamant that a vegan diet is just plain unhealthy for some people.

    Not every omnivore is a hater, and not every vegan is pushy for all omnivores to be vegan, either. I will always hold space for those who don't choose to live their lives exactly like I do. However, I will also not stand aside and let my choices be belittled just because they're different from someone else's, and that someone else chooses to bully me for it. The point of my comment was, I have always wondered if those who choose to bully me for being vegan are doing it for a reason similar to the content of the article - because, by being vegan, I'm possessing some sort of quality that they are offended by, perhaps because they don't also possess it? Please, let's not get away from the meaning behind my original post, just because I admitted that I am human and will stand up for myself and get snarky if I have to.

  • kzooyogi
    kzooyogi Posts: 121 Member
    BruinsGal_91 wrote: »
    kzooyogi wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    kzooyogi wrote: »
    I love this. I've experienced the exact situation before, the first time I started to lose weight, and now at least once per week for being vegan. I interpret that very much the same way - I've always wondered if they're giving me grief simply because I'm bettering myself, the environment, and the lives of animals, and they're not. Or maybe it's because my vegan diet requires a high degree of self-discipline - something maybe they're lacking themselves? "A little bacon every now and then won't kill you," they say... I usually follow with some sort of snarky comment, such as "I really appreciate your unsolicited advice, thanks!"

    Maybe it's because they're picking up on your attitude that they aren't "bettering themselves" because they aren't vegan. I've been vegan for ten years and I will say it's just one portion of how I choose to interact with other individuals. There are many non-vegans who are doing more for themselves and the world than I will ever do. Just because someone isn't vegan it doesn't mean that they aren't also doing valuable things for themselves or the world.

    Do I wish animal exploitation would end? Absolutely. But it's just one piece of the work that needs to be done for a better world and people who aren't vegan may be doing other things that are incredibly valuable and important. They may also be exercising self-discipline in areas of their lives that are important to them, as important to them as my veganism is to me.

    Are they really "haters"? Or are they people who have accurately picked up what you're thinking and assuming about them and are reacting to that?

    Are all of them haters? No, absolutely not. Furthermore, I feel it unfair that I'm assumed to be thinking any negative thoughts or assumptions about them. The ones who are haters, who do give me attitude (as a vegan, I'm sure you've experienced them, too), I will absolutely stand up for myself. I do my best not to rub my diet choices in anyone else's faces, even going so far as to not use the term "vegan" (instead, I'll just respectfully say, "Sorry, I don't eat meat/dairy/eggs/whatever they're offering me that's non-vegan). Many, many meat eaters offer me the same respect, but many also do not. Many of them say, "You're taking away from animals' food by eating plants, so how is being a vegan helping animals?" etc. And, I assure you, they're not just doing it to joke around. They're doing it to belittle my morals, views, and choices. Those, I think you would agree, are ones that are considered "haters".

    I do my best to offer absolutely ZERO judgment of people who eat meat, because, like you say, they absolutely can be doing great things to change the world. And I agree, diet is only one very small part of the larger work to be done. I certainly don't think that being vegan is the only thing that you can do to better yourself, and I'm adamant that a vegan diet is just plain unhealthy for some people.

    Not every omnivore is a hater, and not every vegan is pushy for all omnivores to be vegan, either. I will always hold space for those who don't choose to live their lives exactly like I do. However, I will also not stand aside and let my choices be belittled just because they're different from someone else's, and that someone else chooses to bully me for it. The point of my comment was, I have always wondered if those who choose to bully me for being vegan are doing it for a reason similar to the content of the article - because, by being vegan, I'm possessing some sort of quality that they are offended by, perhaps because they don't also possess it? Please, let's not get away from the meaning behind my original post, just because I admitted that I am human and will stand up for myself and get snarky if I have to.

    Yet you said, "I've always wondered if they're giving me grief simply because I'm bettering myself, the environment, and the lives of animals, and they're not. Or maybe it's because my vegan diet requires a high degree of self-discipline - something maybe they're lacking themselves?"

    Sounds pretty judgy to me.

    Understandable. I can see how it may come off that way. But wondering does not equal judgment.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    kzooyogi wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    kzooyogi wrote: »
    I love this. I've experienced the exact situation before, the first time I started to lose weight, and now at least once per week for being vegan. I interpret that very much the same way - I've always wondered if they're giving me grief simply because I'm bettering myself, the environment, and the lives of animals, and they're not. Or maybe it's because my vegan diet requires a high degree of self-discipline - something maybe they're lacking themselves? "A little bacon every now and then won't kill you," they say... I usually follow with some sort of snarky comment, such as "I really appreciate your unsolicited advice, thanks!"

    Maybe it's because they're picking up on your attitude that they aren't "bettering themselves" because they aren't vegan. I've been vegan for ten years and I will say it's just one portion of how I choose to interact with other individuals. There are many non-vegans who are doing more for themselves and the world than I will ever do. Just because someone isn't vegan it doesn't mean that they aren't also doing valuable things for themselves or the world.

    Do I wish animal exploitation would end? Absolutely. But it's just one piece of the work that needs to be done for a better world and people who aren't vegan may be doing other things that are incredibly valuable and important. They may also be exercising self-discipline in areas of their lives that are important to them, as important to them as my veganism is to me.

    Are they really "haters"? Or are they people who have accurately picked up what you're thinking and assuming about them and are reacting to that?

    Are all of them haters? No, absolutely not. Furthermore, I feel it unfair that I'm assumed to be thinking any negative thoughts or assumptions about them. The ones who are haters, who do give me attitude (as a vegan, I'm sure you've experienced them, too), I will absolutely stand up for myself. I do my best not to rub my diet choices in anyone else's faces, even going so far as to not use the term "vegan" (instead, I'll just respectfully say, "Sorry, I don't eat meat/dairy/eggs/whatever they're offering me that's non-vegan). Many, many meat eaters offer me the same respect, but many also do not. Many of them say, "You're taking away from animals' food by eating plants, so how is being a vegan helping animals?" etc. And, I assure you, they're not just doing it to joke around. They're doing it to belittle my morals, views, and choices. Those, I think you would agree, are ones that are considered "haters".

    I do my best to offer absolutely ZERO judgment of people who eat meat, because, like you say, they absolutely can be doing great things to change the world. And I agree, diet is only one very small part of the larger work to be done. I certainly don't think that being vegan is the only thing that you can do to better yourself, and I'm adamant that a vegan diet is just plain unhealthy for some people.

    Not every omnivore is a hater, and not every vegan is pushy for all omnivores to be vegan, either. I will always hold space for those who don't choose to live their lives exactly like I do. However, I will also not stand aside and let my choices be belittled just because they're different from someone else's, and that someone else chooses to bully me for it. The point of my comment was, I have always wondered if those who choose to bully me for being vegan are doing it for a reason similar to the content of the article - because, by being vegan, I'm possessing some sort of quality that they are offended by, perhaps because they don't also possess it? Please, let's not get away from the meaning behind my original post, just because I admitted that I am human and will stand up for myself and get snarky if I have to.

    I misunderstood your post then -- I read that as you saying that the people who were making comments to you were not, in your opinion, "bettering themselves" or that they lacked self-control. If that isn't what you meant, then we don't have a disagreement.

    I've met very few people that had issues with veganism and wanted to belittle vegans or the reasons behind it. When people do, I consider that they may have a conflict that I may not fully understand and I'd rather provide them with something positive to consider rather than "stand up for myself." Standing up for myself may feel good in the short term, but if they truly have a misconception or conflict about veganism, I personally consider it better for animals to try to address that. I would never want to be the reason that someone thought vegans were unpleasant or snarky -- there are few of us, we're often misunderstood, so I try to be kind. I don't blame people for having misconceptions about veganism or even defensiveness about it (after all, there are prominent voices for veganism who can be offensive or off-putting to many people). I know not every vegan has to share that approach, but it's the one that I choose.

    When I met my first vegan, I didn't know much about it. I don't think I was offensive or a "hater," but I did have a lot of questions and I didn't really see the point at first. Who knows how I came across to vegans at that point? I'm glad someone (several someones, actually) took the time to help me.

  • kzooyogi
    kzooyogi Posts: 121 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    kzooyogi wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    kzooyogi wrote: »
    I love this. I've experienced the exact situation before, the first time I started to lose weight, and now at least once per week for being vegan. I interpret that very much the same way - I've always wondered if they're giving me grief simply because I'm bettering myself, the environment, and the lives of animals, and they're not. Or maybe it's because my vegan diet requires a high degree of self-discipline - something maybe they're lacking themselves? "A little bacon every now and then won't kill you," they say... I usually follow with some sort of snarky comment, such as "I really appreciate your unsolicited advice, thanks!"

    Maybe it's because they're picking up on your attitude that they aren't "bettering themselves" because they aren't vegan. I've been vegan for ten years and I will say it's just one portion of how I choose to interact with other individuals. There are many non-vegans who are doing more for themselves and the world than I will ever do. Just because someone isn't vegan it doesn't mean that they aren't also doing valuable things for themselves or the world.

    Do I wish animal exploitation would end? Absolutely. But it's just one piece of the work that needs to be done for a better world and people who aren't vegan may be doing other things that are incredibly valuable and important. They may also be exercising self-discipline in areas of their lives that are important to them, as important to them as my veganism is to me.

    Are they really "haters"? Or are they people who have accurately picked up what you're thinking and assuming about them and are reacting to that?

    Are all of them haters? No, absolutely not. Furthermore, I feel it unfair that I'm assumed to be thinking any negative thoughts or assumptions about them. The ones who are haters, who do give me attitude (as a vegan, I'm sure you've experienced them, too), I will absolutely stand up for myself. I do my best not to rub my diet choices in anyone else's faces, even going so far as to not use the term "vegan" (instead, I'll just respectfully say, "Sorry, I don't eat meat/dairy/eggs/whatever they're offering me that's non-vegan). Many, many meat eaters offer me the same respect, but many also do not. Many of them say, "You're taking away from animals' food by eating plants, so how is being a vegan helping animals?" etc. And, I assure you, they're not just doing it to joke around. They're doing it to belittle my morals, views, and choices. Those, I think you would agree, are ones that are considered "haters".

    I do my best to offer absolutely ZERO judgment of people who eat meat, because, like you say, they absolutely can be doing great things to change the world. And I agree, diet is only one very small part of the larger work to be done. I certainly don't think that being vegan is the only thing that you can do to better yourself, and I'm adamant that a vegan diet is just plain unhealthy for some people.

    Not every omnivore is a hater, and not every vegan is pushy for all omnivores to be vegan, either. I will always hold space for those who don't choose to live their lives exactly like I do. However, I will also not stand aside and let my choices be belittled just because they're different from someone else's, and that someone else chooses to bully me for it. The point of my comment was, I have always wondered if those who choose to bully me for being vegan are doing it for a reason similar to the content of the article - because, by being vegan, I'm possessing some sort of quality that they are offended by, perhaps because they don't also possess it? Please, let's not get away from the meaning behind my original post, just because I admitted that I am human and will stand up for myself and get snarky if I have to.

    I misunderstood your post then -- I read that as you saying that the people who were making comments to you were not, in your opinion, "bettering themselves" or that they lacked self-control. If that isn't what you meant, then we don't have a disagreement.

    I've met very few people that had issues with veganism and wanted to belittle vegans or the reasons behind it. When people do, I consider that they may have a conflict that I may not fully understand and I'd rather provide them with something positive to consider rather than "stand up for myself." Standing up for myself may feel good in the short term, but if they truly have a misconception or conflict about veganism, I personally consider it better for animals to try to address that. I would never want to be the reason that someone thought vegans were unpleasant or snarky -- there are few of us, we're often misunderstood, so I try to be kind. I don't blame people for having misconceptions about veganism or even defensiveness about it (after all, there are prominent voices for veganism who can be offensive or off-putting to many people). I know not every vegan has to share that approach, but it's the one that I choose.

    When I met my first vegan, I didn't know much about it. I don't think I was offensive or a "hater," but I did have a lot of questions and I didn't really see the point at first. Who knows how I came across to vegans at that point? I'm glad someone (several someones, actually) took the time to help me.

    It certainly sounds like a misunderstanding, because I am in agreement with everything you said!

    I like how you phrased it as a "consideration" because that's exactly how I see it. I can understand how it's coming off as me being judgmental of them, but truly, I'm just wondering if that's where their negative comments are coming from.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    kzooyogi wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    kzooyogi wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    kzooyogi wrote: »
    I love this. I've experienced the exact situation before, the first time I started to lose weight, and now at least once per week for being vegan. I interpret that very much the same way - I've always wondered if they're giving me grief simply because I'm bettering myself, the environment, and the lives of animals, and they're not. Or maybe it's because my vegan diet requires a high degree of self-discipline - something maybe they're lacking themselves? "A little bacon every now and then won't kill you," they say... I usually follow with some sort of snarky comment, such as "I really appreciate your unsolicited advice, thanks!"

    Maybe it's because they're picking up on your attitude that they aren't "bettering themselves" because they aren't vegan. I've been vegan for ten years and I will say it's just one portion of how I choose to interact with other individuals. There are many non-vegans who are doing more for themselves and the world than I will ever do. Just because someone isn't vegan it doesn't mean that they aren't also doing valuable things for themselves or the world.

    Do I wish animal exploitation would end? Absolutely. But it's just one piece of the work that needs to be done for a better world and people who aren't vegan may be doing other things that are incredibly valuable and important. They may also be exercising self-discipline in areas of their lives that are important to them, as important to them as my veganism is to me.

    Are they really "haters"? Or are they people who have accurately picked up what you're thinking and assuming about them and are reacting to that?

    Are all of them haters? No, absolutely not. Furthermore, I feel it unfair that I'm assumed to be thinking any negative thoughts or assumptions about them. The ones who are haters, who do give me attitude (as a vegan, I'm sure you've experienced them, too), I will absolutely stand up for myself. I do my best not to rub my diet choices in anyone else's faces, even going so far as to not use the term "vegan" (instead, I'll just respectfully say, "Sorry, I don't eat meat/dairy/eggs/whatever they're offering me that's non-vegan). Many, many meat eaters offer me the same respect, but many also do not. Many of them say, "You're taking away from animals' food by eating plants, so how is being a vegan helping animals?" etc. And, I assure you, they're not just doing it to joke around. They're doing it to belittle my morals, views, and choices. Those, I think you would agree, are ones that are considered "haters".

    I do my best to offer absolutely ZERO judgment of people who eat meat, because, like you say, they absolutely can be doing great things to change the world. And I agree, diet is only one very small part of the larger work to be done. I certainly don't think that being vegan is the only thing that you can do to better yourself, and I'm adamant that a vegan diet is just plain unhealthy for some people.

    Not every omnivore is a hater, and not every vegan is pushy for all omnivores to be vegan, either. I will always hold space for those who don't choose to live their lives exactly like I do. However, I will also not stand aside and let my choices be belittled just because they're different from someone else's, and that someone else chooses to bully me for it. The point of my comment was, I have always wondered if those who choose to bully me for being vegan are doing it for a reason similar to the content of the article - because, by being vegan, I'm possessing some sort of quality that they are offended by, perhaps because they don't also possess it? Please, let's not get away from the meaning behind my original post, just because I admitted that I am human and will stand up for myself and get snarky if I have to.

    I misunderstood your post then -- I read that as you saying that the people who were making comments to you were not, in your opinion, "bettering themselves" or that they lacked self-control. If that isn't what you meant, then we don't have a disagreement.

    I've met very few people that had issues with veganism and wanted to belittle vegans or the reasons behind it. When people do, I consider that they may have a conflict that I may not fully understand and I'd rather provide them with something positive to consider rather than "stand up for myself." Standing up for myself may feel good in the short term, but if they truly have a misconception or conflict about veganism, I personally consider it better for animals to try to address that. I would never want to be the reason that someone thought vegans were unpleasant or snarky -- there are few of us, we're often misunderstood, so I try to be kind. I don't blame people for having misconceptions about veganism or even defensiveness about it (after all, there are prominent voices for veganism who can be offensive or off-putting to many people). I know not every vegan has to share that approach, but it's the one that I choose.

    When I met my first vegan, I didn't know much about it. I don't think I was offensive or a "hater," but I did have a lot of questions and I didn't really see the point at first. Who knows how I came across to vegans at that point? I'm glad someone (several someones, actually) took the time to help me.

    It certainly sounds like a misunderstanding, because I am in agreement with everything you said!

    I like how you phrased it as a "consideration" because that's exactly how I see it. I can understand how it's coming off as me being judgmental of them, but truly, I'm just wondering if that's where their negative comments are coming from.

    I apologize for misunderstanding what you were saying and responding on that basis.

    I think that sometimes the people who are the most "hateful" about veganism are the people who are potentially the most interested. I know I spent a few months trying to convince myself that veganism wasn't necessary or that it would be impossible for me. I didn't express these things to vegans, but I certainly had all those thoughts. Sometimes people are trying to convince *themselves* of the things they're saying to us (and other times they do represent perfectly genuine and straightforward objections).
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