Ketogenic Diet

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  • tlflag1620
    tlflag1620 Posts: 1,358 Member
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    CeeBeeSlim wrote: »
    Thanks, All. @cwolfman13 - no, no medical condition at all. I think I misunderstood. I thought for low carbers - ketosis was the spot to aim for - where you are burning the most fat. Sounds like you can burn fat and still not go crazy being so low on carbs.

    You'll burn fat anytime you're in a calorie deficit. Some people find LCHF to be beneficial for creating that deficit, due to increased satiety, and other factors. Keto is useful for certain medical conditions, and some people start there but gradually add carbs back to find their own personal "tolerance" level (think the way Atkins is structured). And some peopl do find they feel best remaining at keto levels.

    But no, it is not needed, and I wouldn't say you burn fat faster either. It is possible to lose, maintain, or gain weight, no matter your carb level.

  • francoisrousseau8888
    francoisrousseau8888 Posts: 4 Member
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    About the CICO point, I'm not sure it's that accurate if you look at some research : https://www.dietdoctor.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet

    Carbs mean more insulin which means more fat storing. So it would make sense that that a keto diet (80% fat, 15% protein, 5% net carbs) doesn't store as much fat in case of overeating.

    However from personal experience it seems keeping calories a bit under your limit in keto is the best way to go, especially when you reach a plateau.

    I'm back to it now, never could hold it more than 3 months unfortunately. Feel free to add me as a friend, I'm curious to look at other people's choice of food. Mine is pretty basic.

  • tlflag1620
    tlflag1620 Posts: 1,358 Member
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    Noel_57 wrote: »
    Although there may be true benefits from a low carb or ketogenic diet, I personally think the appetite/hunger suppression is an illusion. When you give up three fourths of the foods you once ate, diet boredom quickly sets in. I remember skipping lunch because I could not face another bunless hamburger. Voila, hunger suppression!

    Lack of imagination, perhaps.

    I've been eating this way for over three years and continue trying new things, and eat a pretty decent variety of "regulars". Yes, if my idea of LC was nothing more than an endless stream of bunless burgers, I'd have gotten tired of it PDQ. The good news is, you are limited only by your imaginations, and perhaps culinary skills ;)

    The appetite suppression is quite real for me. But since that is subjective, and I know plenty of people who are not satiated by fat, I believe you if you found that your hunger level didn't actually drop on low carb. For some people it's fiber, protein, or even starch that makes them feel full.

  • tlflag1620
    tlflag1620 Posts: 1,358 Member
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    francoisrousseau8888 wrote: »
    About the CICO point, I'm not sure it's that accurate if you look at some research : https://www.dietdoctor.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet

    Carbs mean more insulin which means more fat storing. So it would make sense that that a keto diet (80% fat, 15% protein, 5% net carbs) doesn't store as much fat in case of overeating.

    However from personal experience it seems keeping calories a bit under your limit in keto is the best way to go, especially when you reach a plateau.

    I'm back to it now, never could hold it more than 3 months unfortunately. Feel free to add me as a friend, I'm curious to look at other people's choice of food. Mine is pretty basic.

    I don't think an n=1 experiment with no oversight counts as "research". But, if it does, I'll submit my own - I set out to gain a bit of weight a few months ago. I stayed low carb (not keto, but still low carb), upped my calories so I would gain appx .5lbs per week, and started lifting. 12 weeks later I had put on 8 lbs, just as expected.

    It absolutely is possible to gain while eating LC.

  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
    edited December 2016
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    francoisrousseau8888 wrote: »
    About the CICO point, I'm not sure it's that accurate if you look at some research : https://www.dietdoctor.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet

    Carbs mean more insulin which means more fat storing. So it would make sense that that a keto diet (80% fat, 15% protein, 5% net carbs) doesn't store as much fat in case of overeating.

    However from personal experience it seems keeping calories a bit under your limit in keto is the best way to go, especially when you reach a plateau.

    I'm back to it now, never could hold it more than 3 months unfortunately. Feel free to add me as a friend, I'm curious to look at other people's choice of food. Mine is pretty basic.

    Instead of an n=1 anecdote from a biased junk science site, here's some actual research - reviewed and discussed by a man who has authored several books about ketogenic diets, so he's done the homework and knows the subject matter better than most people ever will:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/ketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-have-no-metabolic-advantage-over-nonketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-research-review.html
  • francoisrousseau8888
    francoisrousseau8888 Posts: 4 Member
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    AnvilHead wrote: »
    francoisrousseau8888 wrote: »
    About the CICO point, I'm not sure it's that accurate if you look at some research : https://www.dietdoctor.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet

    Carbs mean more insulin which means more fat storing. So it would make sense that that a keto diet (80% fat, 15% protein, 5% net carbs) doesn't store as much fat in case of overeating.

    However from personal experience it seems keeping calories a bit under your limit in keto is the best way to go, especially when you reach a plateau.

    I'm back to it now, never could hold it more than 3 months unfortunately. Feel free to add me as a friend, I'm curious to look at other people's choice of food. Mine is pretty basic.

    Instead of an n=1 anecdote from a biased junk science site, here's some actual research - reviewed and discussed by a man who has authored several books about ketogenic diets, so he's done the homework and knows the subject matter better than most people ever will:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/ketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-have-no-metabolic-advantage-over-nonketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-research-review.html

    This article is on weight loss. I was more interested in weight gains when eating in extreme amount in HFLC vs HCLF. My hypothesis would be that the weight gains would be inferior in HFLC but indeed, I couldn't really find any research on the matter (except that "n=1 anecdote from a biased junk science site").
  • Dreamyriver
    Dreamyriver Posts: 91 Member
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    Christine_72 wrote: »
    I also downloaded this (only works on a pc), which adds an extra column for net carbs, just make sure you also have the fibre column selected.

    http://www.travelinglowcarb.com/4448/myfitnesspal-hack/

    I know you're in Australia, Christine, so I'm sure you realise that Down Under, carbs are already listed 'net' on nutrition labels. (i.e. fibre isn't included in the carb total here, for Aussie lurkers :smile: )
  • Lauryn491
    Lauryn491 Posts: 3 Member
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    @KetoLady86 Thanks so much! Im going to try some of that coffee and see if that helps me any. With what I have been eating everyday even the lower amount of fat I have still stayed very full everyday with no problems. btw what is MTC oil?
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
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    MCTs are medium chain triglycerides = the monounsaturated fats in oils like coconut.
  • Christine_72
    Christine_72 Posts: 16,049 Member
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    Dreamyriver wrote: »
    Christine_72 wrote: »
    I also downloaded this (only works on a pc), which adds an extra column for net carbs, just make sure you also have the fibre column selected.

    http://www.travelinglowcarb.com/4448/myfitnesspal-hack/

    I know you're in Australia, Christine, so I'm sure you realise that Down Under, carbs are already listed 'net' on nutrition labels. (i.e. fibre isn't included in the carb total here, for Aussie lurkers :smile: )

    Yes true, I eat mainly whole foods , any packet stuff i do eat usually doesn't contain fibre or neglible amounts. You're right though, it's an important bit of info that I'll mention in future :smile:
  • GottaBurnEmAll
    GottaBurnEmAll Posts: 7,722 Member
    edited December 2016
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    francoisrousseau8888 wrote: »
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    francoisrousseau8888 wrote: »
    About the CICO point, I'm not sure it's that accurate if you look at some research : https://www.dietdoctor.com/what-happens-if-you-eat-5800-calories-daily-on-an-lchf-diet

    Carbs mean more insulin which means more fat storing. So it would make sense that that a keto diet (80% fat, 15% protein, 5% net carbs) doesn't store as much fat in case of overeating.

    However from personal experience it seems keeping calories a bit under your limit in keto is the best way to go, especially when you reach a plateau.

    I'm back to it now, never could hold it more than 3 months unfortunately. Feel free to add me as a friend, I'm curious to look at other people's choice of food. Mine is pretty basic.

    Instead of an n=1 anecdote from a biased junk science site, here's some actual research - reviewed and discussed by a man who has authored several books about ketogenic diets, so he's done the homework and knows the subject matter better than most people ever will:

    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/ketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-have-no-metabolic-advantage-over-nonketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-research-review.html

    This article is on weight loss. I was more interested in weight gains when eating in extreme amount in HFLC vs HCLF. My hypothesis would be that the weight gains would be inferior in HFLC but indeed, I couldn't really find any research on the matter (except that "n=1 anecdote from a biased junk science site").

    There's a whole subreddit devoted to the subject, it's called ketogains, and I'm assuming it's populated by bodybuilders who do keto and use it to bulk. Perhaps you could read their experiences and see if your hypothesis holds true.

    I also believe there's a section of the bodybuilding.com forums devoted to users who do keto, and at any time, a portion of them would be bulking.

    That is since you somehow don't seem to think energy balance doesn't work in the positive in the same way it does in the negative. Which is quite the head scratcher, tbh.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,874 Member
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    CeeBeeSlim wrote: »
    Thanks, All. @cwolfman13 - no, no medical condition at all. I think I misunderstood. I thought for low carbers - ketosis was the spot to aim for - where you are burning the most fat. Sounds like you can burn fat and still not go crazy being so low on carbs.

    You oxidize body fat when you are in a deficiency of energy...you aren't going to lose fat any faster doing keto than anything else that puts you in a deficit of energy...long term studies have proved this out.

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