Running question: treadmill and shoes
PennWalker
Posts: 554 Member
I have a question about running on the treadmill and shoes.
Two years ago, I began the C25K program and was up to running about a mile when I got a few deep, sore twinges in my knees. I've never had any problem with my knees, so I stopped running. I was running outside on the pavement. I went back to walking.
I'm a normal weight for my height.
I've recently joined a gym. It's more boring than outdoors, but I can go there in bad weather.
The treadmill is a lot easier on my body than pavement, so I might try running again, but only on the treadmill. I'd like to try again for the higher calorie burn plus cardio health.
Do shoes on the treadmill matter as much as outdoors? I live in the boondocks and shopping is hard.
Two years ago, I began the C25K program and was up to running about a mile when I got a few deep, sore twinges in my knees. I've never had any problem with my knees, so I stopped running. I was running outside on the pavement. I went back to walking.
I'm a normal weight for my height.
I've recently joined a gym. It's more boring than outdoors, but I can go there in bad weather.
The treadmill is a lot easier on my body than pavement, so I might try running again, but only on the treadmill. I'd like to try again for the higher calorie burn plus cardio health.
Do shoes on the treadmill matter as much as outdoors? I live in the boondocks and shopping is hard.
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Replies
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Shoes always matter. The treadmill is an easier surface to run on because it has shock absorption. Asphalt and concrete do not.3
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MichaelJSwann wrote: »Shoes always matter.
That's what I suspected. Thanks for your reply.0 -
PennWalker wrote: »...when I got a few deep, sore twinges in my knees.
It's more important to understand what caused this. It may, or may not, have been your shoes. It may, or may not, have been your running gait. It may, or may not, have been your place.
Shoes can be important, but they're not the be all and end all.
Foot placement and reach are far more important.
What I would say is that road vs treadmill really isn't an important factor.2 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »PennWalker wrote: »...when I got a few deep, sore twinges in my knees.
It's more important to understand what caused this. It may, or may not, have been your shoes. It may, or may not, have been your running gait. It may, or may not, have been your place.
Shoes can be important, but they're not the be all and end all.
Foot placement and reach are far more important.
What I would say is that road vs treadmill really isn't an important factor.
Thanks, I will hold that in mind about gait, foot placement and reach. I have an uneven wear pattern on the bottom of some of my shoes.
Road vs treadmill does seem to be a factor with walking. I can tell the impact difference in my body with six miles outside versus six miles on a treadmill. The knee thing, though, happened when I had not even finished C25K, so I wasn't running that far.
I'm going to go ahead and start C25K again on the treadmill and if I have another knee issue will ask my doctor. I plan to run at a slow pace.
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MeanderingMammal wrote: »PennWalker wrote: »...when I got a few deep, sore twinges in my knees.
It's more important to understand what caused this. It may, or may not, have been your shoes. It may, or may not, have been your running gait. It may, or may not, have been your place.
Shoes can be important, but they're not the be all and end all.
Foot placement and reach are far more important.
What I would say is that road vs treadmill really isn't an important factor.
This is true...it shouldn't matter. I used to have knee issues when running on pavement because I ran too hard with bad form. I would have pain in my knee for weeks after 1 run on pavement. Once I corrected my form, I haven't had an issue with my knees since. I average well over 100 miles per month so I do run a lot.2 -
BeeerRunner wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »PennWalker wrote: »...when I got a few deep, sore twinges in my knees.
It's more important to understand what caused this. It may, or may not, have been your shoes. It may, or may not, have been your running gait. It may, or may not, have been your place.
Shoes can be important, but they're not the be all and end all.
Foot placement and reach are far more important.
What I would say is that road vs treadmill really isn't an important factor.
This is true...it shouldn't matter. I used to have knee issues when running on pavement because I ran too hard with bad form. I would have pain in my knee for weeks after 1 run on pavement. Once I corrected my form, I haven't had an issue with my knees since. I average well over 100 miles per month so I do run a lot.
Thanks, I really appreciate your comments. I live near a national park which is a fantastic place for exercise and beats the gym hands down.
Edited: The store near me that sells good shoes does not have a machine that measures your stride etc. I'm 100 miles from a city. Anyway, I will look into it this week. Maybe there's hope for me for running outside.0 -
Land more towards the front of your foot when you strike the ground to make your calves function as shock absorbers.0
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Switching to a different running surface is only avoiding the issue. If you are having pain running outside that means you more than likely have bad form (don't worry, the majority of people do). Changing things up to avoid pain (new shoes, switching surfaces, etc) does not correct your bad form. It only slows down the eventual pain and damage to your body. I would recommend trying to get a running coach to review your form (this can be done online if you don't live near one).0
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mgalovic01 wrote: »Land more towards the front of your foot when you strike the ground to make your calves function as shock absorbers.
You do insist on repeating this nonsense repeatedly, don't you...0 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »mgalovic01 wrote: »Land more towards the front of your foot when you strike the ground to make your calves function as shock absorbers.
You do insist on repeating this nonsense repeatedly, don't you...
I try to help out everyone I can. I believe my advice will help. No only does it make sense, but I have experienced the difference for myself.
I actually have specific, helpful advice, as opposed to the useless jibber-jabber you posted.0 -
Switching to a different running surface is only avoiding the issue. If you are having pain running outside that means you more than likely have bad form (don't worry, the majority of people do). Changing things up to avoid pain (new shoes, switching surfaces, etc) does not correct your bad form. It only slows down the eventual pain and damage to your body. I would recommend trying to get a running coach to review your form (this can be done online if you don't live near one).
Thanks, everybody. I appreciate all the replies.
esjones, a coach to review my form is a good idea. I found some running form videos on youtube. Also, I went back to college, was required to take a phys ed course, which I just finished, and to my surprise the professor was a neighbor. She's a longtime runner, soccer coach, teacher, etc. and lives less than a mile away. I might ask her to check my form.2 -
mgalovic01 wrote: »I believe my advice will help.
If, by help, you mean increase injury risk then your belief would be legitimate0 -
PennWalker wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »PennWalker wrote: »...when I got a few deep, sore twinges in my knees.
It's more important to understand what caused this. It may, or may not, have been your shoes. It may, or may not, have been your running gait. It may, or may not, have been your place.
Shoes can be important, but they're not the be all and end all.
Foot placement and reach are far more important.
What I would say is that road vs treadmill really isn't an important factor.
Thanks, I will hold that in mind about gait, foot placement and reach. I have an uneven wear pattern on the bottom of some of my shoes.
Road vs treadmill does seem to be a factor with walking. I can tell the impact difference in my body with six miles outside versus six miles on a treadmill. The knee thing, though, happened when I had not even finished C25K, so I wasn't running that far.
I'm going to go ahead and start C25K again on the treadmill and if I have another knee issue will ask my doctor. I plan to run at a slow pace.
If you're finding that walking in the real causes pain compared to using a treadmill then it may be an issue with muscle imbalance in the lower leg.
What I'd suggest when running is concentrating on a short, quick pace with your leading foot landing as close to directly below you as possible. Reaching forward with your leading leg causes quite a lot of rotational stress on the ankles and knees, and it's a common issue in new runners.
I'm not a huge fan now of motion control shoes, but they may be appropriate for you. If the professor you mention can give some advice then discuss it. In principle I'm an over pronator and would use them but I prefer a more neutral, flatter site that gives me a lot more feel for the ground.1 -
PennWalker wrote: »I have a question about running on the treadmill and shoes.
Two years ago, I began the C25K program and was up to running about a mile when I got a few deep, sore twinges in my knees. I've never had any problem with my knees, so I stopped running. I was running outside on the pavement. I went back to walking.
I'm a normal weight for my height.
I've recently joined a gym. It's more boring than outdoors, but I can go there in bad weather.
The treadmill is a lot easier on my body than pavement, so I might try running again, but only on the treadmill. I'd like to try again for the higher calorie burn plus cardio health.
Do shoes on the treadmill matter as much as outdoors? I live in the boondocks and shopping is hard.
Shoes are the #1 priority in any fitness situation. Absolutely. I royally screwed up my "good" foot from running on the treadmill and was told by an orthopedic surgeon and podiatrist to NEVER use one.1 -
Keep your stride short and quick and everything else will work itself out.
Some folks report that they have hip issues from running too much on a treadmill. Also watch the incline. Moving it up and down is fine, just don't keep it at a constant incline. That is not natural and could lead to overuse type injuries when you are starting out.
Good luck.3 -
MeanderingMammal wrote: »mgalovic01 wrote: »I believe my advice will help.
If, by help, you mean increase injury risk then your belief would be legitimate
If by increase injury risk you mean correct a flawed approach then your getting it.0 -
mgalovic01 wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »mgalovic01 wrote: »I believe my advice will help.
If, by help, you mean increase injury risk then your belief would be legitimate
If by increase injury risk you mean correct a flawed approach then your getting it.
Hal Higdon, one of the most respected authors, trainers, and runner, has this to say about footstrike.Footstrike. The majority of better runners land on their midfoot; that is, at a point just behind the ball of the foot. They then drop down on their heel, and their body glides above the foot that is planted firmly on the ground before they push off with the toes. Some land more forward on the ball of the foot (toe runners); others land more flatfooted (heel strikers). Different runners have different plants, dictated by how the parts of their bodies fit together, otherwise known as biomechanics.
If you possess an imperfect footplant, if your foot pronates too much or too little (which can cause injury), you may need to see a podiatrist for orthotic inserts. Most runners, however, can control such problems by carefully selecting shoes. The worst thing you can do to your footstrike is to try to adjust your landing to accommodate what you think other runners do.
Now I have no doubt that changing your footstrike worked for you, but to say it is best for everyone is just irresponsible.3 -
mgalovic01 wrote: »MeanderingMammal wrote: »mgalovic01 wrote: »I believe my advice will help.
If, by help, you mean increase injury risk then your belief would be legitimate
If by increase injury risk you mean correct a flawed approach then your getting it.
Hal Higdon, one of the most respected authors, trainers, and runner, has this to say about footstrike.Footstrike. The majority of better runners land on their midfoot; that is, at a point just behind the ball of the foot. They then drop down on their heel, and their body glides above the foot that is planted firmly on the ground before they push off with the toes. Some land more forward on the ball of the foot (toe runners); others land more flatfooted (heel strikers). Different runners have different plants, dictated by how the parts of their bodies fit together, otherwise known as biomechanics.
If you possess an imperfect footplant, if your foot pronates too much or too little (which can cause injury), you may need to see a podiatrist for orthotic inserts. Most runners, however, can control such problems by carefully selecting shoes. The worst thing you can do to your footstrike is to try to adjust your landing to accommodate what you think other runners do.
Now I have no doubt that changing your footstrike worked for you, but to say it is best for everyone is just irresponsible.
The part you highlighted suggested not changing your foot strike just to accommodate what you think other runners do.
The OP said running was hurting her knees. She's not trying to change just because. She needs to fix a problem. This fixed the problem for me.0 -
mgalovic01 wrote: »This fixed the problem for me.
Yet you advised it whilst knowing nothing more about the originator and her running, I'd also observe that your rationale as to why it has the potential to help is flawed, which demonstrates a lack of understanding of biomechanics.
I've pointed this out to you before, but other research has indicated that forcing a change in gait doesn't reduce injury rates, it just changes the nature of the injuries; from shin to calf.
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I land on my forefoot naturally and I have 2 different knee issues over the years. One was caused by an IT band issue. The fix was in my hip, not in the stride. The other is unknown to me, but it was caused after a cramp in my calf caused me to finish the last 6 miles of my marathon with a much different gait. This eventually resolved itself after rest. Changing my footstrike would have done nothing for either of these. Yet there are those who would have done so blindly without knowing anything more about the actual cause.
My right achillies is still somewhat sore and was an issue during my training last year. Do you think changing to a heal strike would help it?1
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