Plant-Based Eating for 21 Days- New To This- Anyone Else
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ambridget2 wrote: »All of your posts have brought up a lot of good information for me. It isn't as simplistic as I was thinking. I am following what is online and it is free. It is called 21 Vegan Kickstart by Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (www.pcrm.org/kickstartHome/meal plan) All the meals are planned out. It is no meat or dairy. They provide grocery lists as well and purchased week 1 items. There is so much to consider. I know I want organic as well AND they want low fat too. Shopping was so new and exhausting looking for everything. I bought some organic ( I want non-gmo too yet organic don't have that label). Are all organically non-gmo? Also, I am thinking after the 21 days to eat at least some organic non-gmo meat sources. I read that there is too much mercury in our oceans so fish is out because of that and being too fatty.
My reasoning is number 1 to be healthy and keep cancer away. I am a registered nurse on an oncology floor and I want to be as healthy as possible. I also want to lose 30 lbs.
Thanks again for everyone's posts. You are bringing up so many new topics for me to consider.
Dietary fat is important in hormone functioning and absorption of some nutrients. You do need some in your diet.1 -
I got started with buying a few books from a local thrift shop. I picked up Becoming Vegetarian (it delves a bit into nutritional needs,) The Veganomicon, and another huge book of vegetarian recipes for about $15.
I eat very little meat these days, so expanding my repertoire was and is still essential for maintaining optimum nutrition.1 -
crzycatlady1 wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »albertabeefy wrote: »I'm not a plant-based eater but not opposed to it.
If by "plant-based" you mean you're eliminating meat ... please do it right. You must ensure you get proper levels (not just 'minimum') of protein and fats for overall health. Avocado is a great, healthy plant-based fat source, as are most natural oils (peanut, olive, coconut, etc.).
Protein can certainly be a challenge, especially if you choose to eliminate grains. If you don't eliminate grains, Quinoa and Buckwheat are good sources, but there's others you can find with a quick google search. A peanut-butter sandwich on Ezekial bread is an excellent source while being technically 'plant-based'.
Also, please supplement B12. Injections are your best source, period. Every health-care professional that advocates a plant-based diet will also tell you to supplement B12. (Yes, even the PCRM/PETA vegan zealots.)
Please do not listen to anyone that says things like "No one ever died from a protein deficiency" or "There's no need to supplement B12". These folks are uninformed.
Absolutely! I think a researched approach to plant-based is healthy and prudent.
OP, look at your nutritional needs and then see which foods contain them to ensure you are getting a balanced diet. Your post is a bit confusing to me, because plant-based is not necessarily vegan. Are you looking at increasing plant-based consumption while decreasing animal products? Or are you looking at removing all animal products from your diet? Vegan diets are typically about an ethical view point. Plant-based is a dietary choice.
She's doing it to lose weight and prevent cancer. Not quite sure how her new eating plan is going to accomplish either of those though?
And OP-eating a vegan diet does not automatically mean healthier. Many people who are in excellent health eat meat and dairy.
I was typing as she posted, and editing as you posted. :laugh:2 -
ambridget2 wrote: »All of your posts have brought up a lot of good information for me. It isn't as simplistic as I was thinking. I am following what is online and it is free. It is called 21 Vegan Kickstart by Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (www.pcrm.org/kickstartHome/meal plan) All the meals are planned out. It is no meat or dairy. They provide grocery lists as well and purchased week 1 items. There is so much to consider. I know I want organic as well AND they want low fat too. Shopping was so new and exhausting looking for everything. I bought some organic ( I want non-gmo too yet organic don't have that label). Are all organically non-gmo? Also, I am thinking after the 21 days to eat at least some organic non-gmo meat sources. I read that there is too much mercury in our oceans so fish is out because of that and being too fatty.
My reasoning is number 1 to be healthy and keep cancer away. I am a registered nurse on an oncology floor and I want to be as healthy as possible. I also want to lose 30 lbs.
Thanks again for everyone's posts. You are bringing up so many new topics for me to consider.
May I ask what your issue is with GMO?2 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »Protein isn't going to be a challenge. You don't need a lot. Just eat a variety of vegan proteins during the day no problem. No one ever died from a protein deficiency. Lots of people are vegan and vegetarian and have been for many years with no issue, like any diet, just eat a variety of foods. Personally veggie chili is one of my favorite meals high in lots of nutrients including fiber, protein, iron and other vitamins and it's very versatile.
You're wrong on that - dead wrong, actually.
I had lots of other things wrong too at the time as I was in a very severe crohn's flare and hospitalized for over a month but one thing was my albumin (protein) was super low and I had transfusions for that. Even though all my levels were low my doctors were most concerned about my low protein. I almost died btw.4 -
ambridget2 wrote: »All of your posts have brought up a lot of good information for me. It isn't as simplistic as I was thinking. I am following what is online and it is free. It is called 21 Vegan Kickstart by Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (www.pcrm.org/kickstartHome/meal plan) All the meals are planned out. It is no meat or dairy. They provide grocery lists as well and purchased week 1 items.
I find following someone else's meal plans basically irritating and impossible, it feels restrictive and burdensome, but I know it does work for some. If it works for you, consider it to be a learning experience as to how meals are put together without any animal-sourced foods. If it doesn't, there's nothing wrong with that, and you can still do it your own way. Sometimes making the shift more gradually (meal by meal or going vegetarian first and then doing 3 vegan dinners per week, etc.) can be easier.There is so much to consider. I know I want organic as well AND they want low fat too. Shopping was so new and exhausting looking for everything. I bought some organic ( I want non-gmo too yet organic don't have that label). Are all organically non-gmo? Also, I am thinking after the 21 days to eat at least some organic non-gmo meat sources. I read that there is too much mercury in our oceans so fish is out because of that and being too fatty.
I'm skeptical about the benefits of organic, especially as labeling works in the US, but it depends on the product. (In season I'm big on buying local and have a source for that that is organic, just as it happens, so I'm not against organic, but out of season I'm more lax.) Anyway, yeah, in the US organic is also non-GMO, and most produce isn't GMO anyway -- there are limited products that are and in many cases it is in packaged products, not what you buy in the produce section. If you rely on tofu, tempeh, that tends to be labeled non GMO (certainly is in WF).
I care about sourcing of meat largely for ethical reasons, so when I am eating meat, eggs, and dairy I source it from a local farm, but in the winter/early spring that's not possible for fruits and veg where I live.
(I don't think there's anything wrong with GMO, but if you want to avoid it, it's not hard. I find most tofu and tempeh I buy is non-GMO.)
On fish, depends on the size -- small fishes have less mercury, and I don't think the mercury issue would lead me to avoid all fish, just limit consumption of larger fish.
On fat, I am generally down on plant-based diets that demand low fat -- don't see the point and because I have read a lot of stuff on the topic (I'm interested in and generally favorable toward plant-based eating), I know that there are splits in the community about how much fat or whether it matters. My view is that fatty fish is generally good for us, important to eat if you are not 100% plant based (and I considered supplementing with an algae form of Omega 3 when I was doing plant based). I also think less processed vegetable sourced oils can be healthy and, importantly, add to the pleasure of a diet, so I use lots of olive oil, some coconut and avocado oil, stuff like that. If you don't -- and often the reason not to is to cut down on calories for people needing to lose weight -- I'd still include whole food sources of fat like avocado, olives, nuts and seeds, personally, and I am not sure why low fat would be pushed absent a concern about reversing heart disease.
(I do think low fat diets can be useful in some contexts, and this is an article worth reading if you have not: https://deniseminger.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/)
Good luck! One reason I tend to be more lax about a lot of this and say take it gradually and don't be too restrictive is that I think to have a sustainable healthful diet, whether plant-based or not, you need to also make it not to hard and really enjoyable. One thing I have found helpful to look at is the diversity of healthy human diets in places like the blue zones -- I think the extent to which we worry and fight about what a perfect diet is in the US while often having truly terrible diets is a weird dichotomy. Having a generally good diet that includes lots of whole plant foods prepared lovingly at home and eaten with mindfulness and enjoyment within an active lifestyle would probably be the healthiest approach vs. any one diet. But I am totally supportive of trying different ways of eating and sticking with them if you like them.0 -
littlechiaseed wrote: »nutmegoreo wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »Protein isn't going to be a challenge. You don't need a lot. Just eat a variety of vegan proteins during the day no problem. No one ever died from a protein deficiency. Lots of people are vegan and vegetarian and have been for many years with no issue, like any diet, just eat a variety of foods. Personally veggie chili is one of my favorite meals high in lots of nutrients including fiber, protein, iron and other vitamins and it's very versatile.
You are absolutely wrong about protein. I have seen serious complications caused by lack of protein. While it may not have been a direct cause of death, it certainly contributes.
Probably people that had complications weren't eating enough calories or a varied diet, generally though it's not an issue.
Calm down.
look up protein deficiencies and see what can happen when its too low. its real and it can kill you. has nothing to do with not eating enough calories which can speed things up, but not getting enough protein is a serious issue,especially if you are losing weight or working out,3 -
littlechiaseed wrote: »Protein isn't going to be a challenge. You don't need a lot. Just eat a variety of vegan proteins during the day no problem. No one ever died from a protein deficiency. Lots of people are vegan and vegetarian and have been for many years with no issue, like any diet, just eat a variety of foods. Personally veggie chili is one of my favorite meals high in lots of nutrients including fiber, protein, iron and other vitamins and it's very versatile.
One word: kwashiorkor.5 -
ambridget2 wrote: »I am following what is online and it is free. It is called 21 Vegan Kickstart by Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (www.pcrm.org/kickstartHome/meal plan) All the meals are planned out.
I'm seeing all kinds of red flags on that site. The menu won't do you any harm but it does seem to lack a little in fats and proteins.
Selecting fruits on the basis of a wide range of colours is an absolute horror story, and the point about no calorie restriction leads to some concern.
Try it, see how you feel, but in the meantime I'd echo the comments above about doing your research.2 -
All, I am confused too. It is an all plant-derived plan with no meats or fish. I thought I read plant-based through out some of the literature yet until I find those places I could have labeled it as such in my own. I doubt it but read it all over again. It clearly says vegan. Maybe I am getting it all wrong. To my SHOCK, I guess because this is all new to me, organic things have corn syrup and other sugars I want avoid as well. Oh my! I am obviously naive and need to understand that organic and non-gmo still have sugars I want to avoid. You all are great help. Continue0
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I am not sure how to reply on individual posts. I click "quote" and then do I comment at the beginning of the persons' post or the end?0
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There is no need to avoid sugars though. Right now, labels don't differentiate between natural sugars and added sugars. So if you are looking at say a can of organic stewed tomatoes, there will be sugar in it, because tomatoes naturally contain sugar.0
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ambridget2 wrote: »I am not sure how to reply on individual posts. I click "quote" and then do I comment at the beginning of the persons' post or the end?
It's easier to follow if you post your reply at the end of the post. Just because people see what you are responding to, and then can read your comment.0 -
I agree about the protein being good from fish especially salmon which I love. I do know a lot about nutrition, calories, protein needs, the dangerous eating plans etc. and I may just be trusting this site too much. I know how to eat healthy and know I can do it without a guide BUT I want to eat in a way that does not promote cancer. I am an oncology nurse and know that red meat is not something I want in my diet. Thanks about the mercury issue and fish. I read about all fish being too fatty and mercury-laden on that site. Perhaps I should do mostly vegetables and fish. Not sure about dairy. Any thoughts about dairy?0
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@littlechiaseed You really need to get over your disdain of protein, do you eat low fat too?1
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ambridget2 wrote: »I agree about the protein being good from fish especially salmon which I love. I do know a lot about nutrition, calories, protein needs, the dangerous eating plans etc. and I may just be trusting this site too much. I know how to eat healthy and know I can do it without a guide BUT I want to eat in a way that does not promote cancer. I am an oncology nurse and know that red meat is not something I want in my diet. Thanks about the mercury issue and fish. I read about all fish being too fatty and mercury-laden on that site. Perhaps I should do mostly vegetables and fish. Not sure about dairy. Any thoughts about dairy?
There is nothing wrong with anything in moderation. Reasonable portion sizes, keep calorie under control and manage your macros and you're fine.
There is nothing inherently wrong with red meat, but it shouldn't be the focus of every meal, give yourself some variety.
Personally I find my suggestion better, and my energy levels better when I'm limiting my meat intake. That's an N=1 situation though, and others will disagree.
What I would say is Lacto-ovo is easier to maintain.4 -
Christine_72 wrote: »@littlechiaseed You really need to get over your disdain of protein, do you eat low fat too?
I like protein plenty, there's just a lot of crazy info floating on the boards about it that's annoying. Like person said plant based...a lot of people say they are plant based and still eat some meat or eggs and dairy...and everyone is acting like if you don't eat a high protein diet that you're going to end up in the hospital which is stupid. But generally a person with a balanced diet doesn't need to worrry about protein...someone with an unbalanced diet would. But keep reading what isn't there it's pretty funny.
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littlechiaseed wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »@littlechiaseed You really need to get over your disdain of protein, do you eat low fat too?
I like protein plenty, there's just a lot of crazy info floating on the boards about it that's annoying. Like person said plant based...a lot of people say they are plant based and still eat some meat or eggs and dairy...and everyone is acting like if you don't eat a high protein diet that you're going to end up in the hospital which is stupid. But generally a person with a balanced diet doesn't need to worrry about protein...someone with an unbalanced diet would. But keep reading what isn't there it's pretty funny.
no one said you needed a high protein diet,they said you need enough protein in your diet,protein is needed for a lot of things, if you dont get enough protein(notice I didnt say high protein) your body will break down muscle to get it. your body protein needs will depend on the person. but if you work out, lift weights,are losing weight,etc you will need more protein than the LOWEST recommended for women.Eating too little protein can land you in the hospital,but hey if you want to test the waters eating low protein(barring any medical issue and under a drs care) then go ahead. your body needs the 3 macros protein,fat and carbs, and enough to be healthy and prevent deficiencies and other possible health issues that can arise from them being too low.If you are high in carbs and fat and low/very low in protein to me thats not a balanced diet. one day here and there wont hurt, but often and for long periods there will be issues.3 -
I'm definitely not HIGH protein, I just aim to get over 100g a day. Sometimes it's around 120g all the way up to 170g, but very rarely under 100.1
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littlechiaseed wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »@littlechiaseed You really need to get over your disdain of protein, do you eat low fat too?
I like protein plenty, there's just a lot of crazy info floating on the boards about it that's annoying. Like person said plant based...a lot of people say they are plant based and still eat some meat or eggs and dairy..
The originator described it as plant based, and referred to a vegan eating plan. That's a pretty clear indicator to me that we're talking vegan, not pescatarian, Lacto-ovo or omniverous.
It's more difficult for vegetarians and vegans to consume enough protein. The higher quality options have a correspondingly higher fat content, so that means compromise. Some of the options have high volumes, and that can put people off, particularly in a transitional period. Gas is a huge issue for someone transitioning to a vegan diet.
It's easy for new vegetarians or vegans to be deficient in something, and frequently it's protein.
I'd also observe that I've had vegetarian recipe boxes at times, and rarely are they all that well balanced.
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littlechiaseed wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »@littlechiaseed You really need to get over your disdain of protein, do you eat low fat too?
I like protein plenty, there's just a lot of crazy info floating on the boards about it that's annoying. Like person said plant based...a lot of people say they are plant based and still eat some meat or eggs and dairy...and everyone is acting like if you don't eat a high protein diet that you're going to end up in the hospital which is stupid. But generally a person with a balanced diet doesn't need to worrry about protein...someone with an unbalanced diet would. But keep reading what isn't there it's pretty funny.
Ironic statement is ironic. No one was advocating high protein. People were saying get enough protein, balance. You were the one claiming that low protein wasn't harmful.1 -
ambridget2 wrote: »I agree about the protein being good from fish especially salmon which I love. I do know a lot about nutrition, calories, protein needs, the dangerous eating plans etc. and I may just be trusting this site too much. I know how to eat healthy and know I can do it without a guide BUT I want to eat in a way that does not promote cancer. I am an oncology nurse and know that red meat is not something I want in my diet. Thanks about the mercury issue and fish. I read about all fish being too fatty and mercury-laden on that site. Perhaps I should do mostly vegetables and fish. Not sure about dairy. Any thoughts about dairy?
I can imagine how tough your job must be! But, people get cancer and really there's not a whole lot we can do about it. Yes, not smoking and such may help lower some people's risks, but many times it just is what it is. My husband's grandfather has lung cancer and he's not a smoker. My mother -in-law is a breast cancer survivor and she's the healthiest person I know-she's active, at a healthy bmi, has a very 'healthy' diet and has no family history of breast cancer. My next door neighbor is another breast cancer survivor who's in her 30s and is also in excellent health, except she's had cancer. And I know several other people who also live healthy lifestyles and have had brain cancer, stomach cancer etc.
It's good that you're trying to stack the odds in your favor as much as possible, but also realize that stressing yourself out trying to do everything 'right' isn't healthy either. Nothing wrong with reducing your red meat consumption and eating more veggies and fruit. But don't try to make such drastic changes that you end up wearing yourself down.3 -
ambridget2 wrote: »I agree about the protein being good from fish especially salmon which I love. I do know a lot about nutrition, calories, protein needs, the dangerous eating plans etc. and I may just be trusting this site too much. I know how to eat healthy and know I can do it without a guide BUT I want to eat in a way that does not promote cancer. I am an oncology nurse and know that red meat is not something I want in my diet. Thanks about the mercury issue and fish. I read about all fish being too fatty and mercury-laden on that site. Perhaps I should do mostly vegetables and fish. Not sure about dairy. Any thoughts about dairy?
That site is highly agenda driven. Please note that I'm speaking as a vegetarian. The people behind that site are connected to PETA, and as fond as I am of animals, I find PETA to be an extremist organization.
In other words, take what that site says with a grain of salt.
As far as dairy is concerned, I'm a fan. I seem to recall reading that the saturated fat in it doesn't seem to be as bad for us due to... I think it's butyric acid... as the saturated fat in red meat would be.
I have osteopenia, and I like to get most of my calcium through diet. A nice hefty serving of cottage cheese daily helps to get me there, plus it's one of the more filling foods in my diet (and it's versatile).4 -
A spiralizer is fun! Also you can make a huge batch of vegan protein pancakes and freeze them, then reheat in toaster as needed. Maybe consider a rice cooker? Large batches of beans and rice in the fridge will help when you are hungry and not sure what to eat as you gain new habits. Happy eating!0
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nutmegoreo wrote: »littlechiaseed wrote: »Protein isn't going to be a challenge. You don't need a lot. Just eat a variety of vegan proteins during the day no problem. No one ever died from a protein deficiency. Lots of people are vegan and vegetarian and have been for many years with no issue, like any diet, just eat a variety of foods. Personally veggie chili is one of my favorite meals high in lots of nutrients including fiber, protein, iron and other vitamins and it's very versatile.
You are absolutely wrong about protein. I have seen serious complications caused by lack of protein. While it may not have been a direct cause of death, it certainly contributes.
My sister got very sick from a lack of protein in high school (she wasn't vegan, she has just always disliked most meats and doesn't eat them often). This isn't speculation on my part -- she literally received a diagnosis of protein deficiency.
I don't understand why some vegans/plant-based people try so hard to convince themselves (and others) that we don't need to worry about protein deficiency. There are so many ways to get plant-based protein, it isn't like a threat to veganism to admit that, yes, humans do need to consume some protein in order to survive.6 -
hidinginthechristmaslights wrote: »Been Vegan for 3 years now and my best advice to you is to not be too much of a dictator on yourself. If you slip up and eat maybe like a bar of chocolate or something then don't worry about it. My only critisism to that though is to stay the hell away from beef and pork (or venison if thats what you're into), because red meats have such a bad impact on your health and the planet that it's just not worth it.
Banana smoothie recipe if you're interested:
2 bananas
2 cups of almond milk (or any plant milk tbh so if hemps you're thing then you do you boo)
4 tsp sugar (or) 2 tsp of sweetener
Add chia seeds if ya fancy
Hope things go well for you x
(Also sidenote, buy yourself some multivitamins with iron to keep the B12 levels good to go)
Eating chocolate isn't slipping up for vegans. I eat 1-2 chocolate bars a week usually, it just doesn't have dairy in it.4 -
http://www.pcrm.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/health/High-Protein-Diets.pdf
You can eat plant based proteins. I have been doing plant based for a while now and feel SO much better!!0 -
dance4life5678mfp wrote: »I have switched to plant based and I love it. Protein isn't a problem, I find it funny how most people think you can't get protein without meat. I have an Instagram page with ideas if you're interested it's call <snip>
People aren't saying you can't get enough protein. In fact I've started adding more vegetarian meals and still hit my protein goals. They are saying that protein needs to be monitored to make sure it is enough. Often people move into a different diet without considering their nutritional needs. That's all anyone is saying, be mindful to ensure nutritional balance.2 -
dance4life5678mfp wrote: »... I find it funny how most people think you can't get protein without meat.
I don't think anyone has said that. It's certainly straightforward enough, although needs more planning.
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I meant in general most people that I talk to ask how can you get protein without meat.
Lots of great ideas on here!0
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