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Understanding the "starvation mode" myth.
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janejellyroll wrote: »
You seem really angry. If you're looking to vent, you might find the "Support and Motivation" area more helpful than "Debate."
Not saying you aren't welcome here, of course, but I just feel so much anger and frustration radiating from your posts and I'm wondering if debate is the best help for that right now.[/quote]
Not at all. Actually Im finding this all rather amusing. My sarcasm is lost on most people.
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In my opinion starvation mode is the body slowing metabolism to conserve whats left. I don't see how weight gain could be the result unless calories increase over the long term.
That is the basics of what I believe. Weight gain isnt the result of slowing the metabolism, its the result of falling of the wagon. Here is the basic break up of what I have seen and experienced.
Stage 1: 150lbs, consume 2000 calories a day, walk 2 miles a day.
Stage 2: Consume 800 calories a day,Starve myself to 130, Walk 5 miles a day.
Stage 3: 3 day binge just cause.. Start recounting calories after but this time..eh, I feel like I was over doing it, so consume 1500 calories a day and redrop my walking to 2 miles a day. Gain to 180 lbs.
Stage 4: hover at 180 for 2 years. Redrop calories to 800 a day, walk 2 miles every day. Lose to 140. Also lose my gall bladder.. Surgeon said it was because of the yo-yo dieting.
Stage 5: Fall off again.. eat 2000 calories a day, walk 3 miles 3 times a week, gain to 215 and hold steady.
None of this makes sense until this stage
Stage 6: F it. No walking, no exercise, PTSD, consume who knows what at 3pm every night cause eating breakfast and lunch just isnt your thing, gain to 300. (THAT makes sense. I deserved that.)
What doesnt make sense is the holding steady at the other ridiculous levels when everyone else around you does less and eats more but retains their weight they originally started with because they didnt feel the need to starve off the excess fluff. Every hear a skinny girl brag about how much she eats and how much she eats? Ever witness it...
I understand each persons metabolism is unique unto themselves. Two 5' 1 girls can jog 2 miles a day, weight train 30 minutes every other day, and consume 1800 calories each.. And one could be consuming those 1800 calories in nothing but twinkies and ho-ho's while the other is more self-conscious and never touches packaged foods at all. And the Twinkie lover can be 10-15 lbs lighter than her more anxious counter part. I understand this, but I still dont "get' it. And like I pointed out before. I was the active one in my family with no health issues and was the over weight one. My sister was the one who couldnt walk half a mile without sitting down to take a break while I danced in place impatiently wanting to get moving again. This wasnt my need to work out, this was my energy level. I had an entire world to explore and she was holding me up. She had bad asthma so she had her excuse.
To properly diagnose this you have to take yourself out of the equation. Metabolism is not that terribly different from person to person. The predominant physiological factor is lean muscle mass. Still the dominating factor in weight management is caloric intake. You can either accept this and be successful, or continue to construct excuses.
It is very difficult for trained professionals to estimate calories, which is why many weight management professionals discard calorie counting for the average person doing this on their own. You also have to incorporate the 20% margin of error in calorie estimation, hence the 1000 calorie day you just logged per the label is somewhere between 800 and 1200 calories. You can use MFP successfully by checking your logs to see where the error may have occurred if you are not hitting your goals.
Model your behavior to those who have succeeded and lost 100+ lbs and maintained this over years. In all of these situations the successful share distinct common behaviors:
1. They implemented small changes - rarely anything drastic.
2. They continually set small goals, met the goals, and set new loftier goals.
3. Weight loss was a smaller goal to a larger vision (long life, improved life, kids, athletic performance, etc.)
Here's a link to the National Weight Control Registry - one of the most informative sites on long term success:
http://nwcr.ws/
Though I disagree with some of what was said, I find much of it informative. Thank you for participating. I will check out the site. I think people may be misunderstanding my intent here. Many seem to think that I am blaming a system or excusing bad behavior. My mother believes strongly in the starvation mode. She accuses her weight and her lack of losing weight on it. She truly believes she destroyed her metabolism and no matter what I say to her or how I try to convince her that this is all hog wash, she is stuck in her beliefs that she can never lose the weight and has accepted her lot in life. I dont believe in "starvation mode" the same way she does. Ive tried to tell her that her lack of success in weight loss, is due to her lack of getting off her duff. I KNOW I can lose weight. I am CONFIDENT I will. I am not *kitten* footing around making excuses to the contrary. I dont know where everyone is getting that I have given up from my story. Quite the opposite, I now realize my idiocy and can make smart changes for once in my life.
I find this to be one of the most straight forward memes.
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Hmm. Does the coding for this site "kitten" out offensive memes as well?0
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starvation mode = when you don't eat anything for a pro longed period of time and your body turns on itself for energy. Takes a long time to happen...
Like say, 20 years? Agreed. Im sure I lost more muscle than I did actual fat when starving. Still think its a misnomer though. Perhaps a new name will clear up the confusion associated behind it. It probably already has one, and everyone completely agrees with the idea behind it, without even realizing its the same bloody thing. Like common core.. Almost everyone hates "common core" math. Change the name but give them the same lessons and they would never clue in to its origins. Its like leading sheep to the slaughter.
no, I am talking about eating little, or nothing, for a period of six months. Think starving kids in Africa...
Ahh, longest I went was only 4 months of no calorie intake and heavy pilates work out. Lots of water though. Almost landed me in the hospital and I had one pissed off doctor berating me about my stupidity. That was pretty stupid of me. But I was 18 and stupid and had recently gotten married.0 -
starvation mode = when you don't eat anything for a pro longed period of time and your body turns on itself for energy. Takes a long time to happen...
Like say, 20 years? Agreed. Im sure I lost more muscle than I did actual fat when starving. Still think its a misnomer though. Perhaps a new name will clear up the confusion associated behind it. It probably already has one, and everyone completely agrees with the idea behind it, without even realizing its the same bloody thing. Like common core.. Almost everyone hates "common core" math. Change the name but give them the same lessons and they would never clue in to its origins. Its like leading sheep to the slaughter.
no, I am talking about eating little, or nothing, for a period of six months. Think starving kids in Africa...
Ahh, longest I went was only 4 months of no calorie intake and heavy pilates work out. Lots of water though. Almost landed me in the hospital and I had one pissed off doctor berating me about my stupidity. That was pretty stupid of me. But I was 18 and stupid and had recently gotten married.
You had zero calorie intake for four months?3 -
your friend was on the Twinkie diet1
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trigden1991 wrote: »Starvation mode is a myth.
This. 100%.
OP, what you are describing is your experience and emotional processes that have brought you to the place you are today.
It takes a whole lot more than what you're describing for metabolic adaptation (which, it seems to me, you might mean by starvation mode) to come into play.2 -
In my opinion starvation mode is the body slowing metabolism to conserve whats left. I don't see how weight gain could be the result unless calories increase over the long term.
That is the basics of what I believe. Weight gain isnt the result of slowing the metabolism, its the result of falling of the wagon. Here is the basic break up of what I have seen and experienced.
Stage 1: 150lbs, consume 2000 calories a day, walk 2 miles a day.
Stage 2: Consume 800 calories a day,Starve myself to 130, Walk 5 miles a day.
Stage 3: 3 day binge just cause.. Start recounting calories after but this time..eh, I feel like I was over doing it, so consume 1500 calories a day and redrop my walking to 2 miles a day. Gain to 180 lbs.
Stage 4: hover at 180 for 2 years. Redrop calories to 800 a day, walk 2 miles every day. Lose to 140. Also lose my gall bladder.. Surgeon said it was because of the yo-yo dieting.
Stage 5: Fall off again.. eat 2000 calories a day, walk 3 miles 3 times a week, gain to 215 and hold steady.
None of this makes sense until this stage
Stage 6: F it. No walking, no exercise, PTSD, consume who knows what at 3pm every night cause eating breakfast and lunch just isnt your thing, gain to 300. (THAT makes sense. I deserved that.)
What doesnt make sense is the holding steady at the other ridiculous levels when everyone else around you does less and eats more but retains their weight they originally started with because they didnt feel the need to starve off the excess fluff. Every hear a skinny girl brag about how much she eats and how much she eats? Ever witness it...
I understand each persons metabolism is unique unto themselves. Two 5' 1 girls can jog 2 miles a day, weight train 30 minutes every other day, and consume 1800 calories each.. And one could be consuming those 1800 calories in nothing but twinkies and ho-ho's while the other is more self-conscious and never touches packaged foods at all. And the Twinkie lover can be 10-15 lbs lighter than her more anxious counter part. I understand this, but I still dont "get' it. And like I pointed out before. I was the active one in my family with no health issues and was the over weight one. My sister was the one who couldnt walk half a mile without sitting down to take a break while I danced in place impatiently wanting to get moving again. This wasnt my need to work out, this was my energy level. I had an entire world to explore and she was holding me up. She had bad asthma so she had her excuse.
Surely, you're not saying that you got to 300 pound because you were in starvation mode.
Setting aside any medical issues that needed immediate attention, you got to 300 pounds by eating too much--just like everyone else has/does.
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albertabeefy wrote: »
That's the attitude that'll make the difference. A full-on lifestyle change - not a temporary diet - is the key to losing and then maintaining healthy weight.Reaverie wrote:But this time, you arent aiming to lose it all in a few months. Heck, you wont even lose it in a few years! But the changes you make from this day hence, will be life changing, not some stupid quick fad that obliterates your metabolism and self-esteem.
Really? You must at-least agree the body reduces RMR and T3 in the presence of a hypocaloric diet... Which certainly makes it more difficult to lose weight than if it didn't ...trigden1991 wrote: »Starvation mode is a myth.
I most certainly do agree with that but I don't believe in starvation mode.1 -
Ambivalent kitty sees you...
Hey guys - this discussion has been cleaned up to remove some posts. Please be aware that this discussion has been posted in the debate section. HOWEVER, personal attacks are still against the guidelines and if they are reported to us we do take note and action for them. Please keep the debate to a poster's ideas and NOT their frame of mind or reading comprehension. If you see a post that you believe violates our community guidelines please REPORT it so that the mod team can take a look and then move on without responding to it.
I hope you're having an awesome Friday.
Cheers,
Em4 -
I don't recall seeing anything that required "cleaning up".. but then I'm not the type that needs a "safe space"...1
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I don't recall seeing anything that required "cleaning up".. but then I'm not the type that needs a "safe space"...
The clean-up wasn't to make this a 'safe space' but to remove content that violated community guidelines. Which are located here: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines so that folks can take a look and not fall afoul of them again.
Since this discussion is about 'Understanding the Starvation Mode myth', getting back on topic (so as to not violate the above linked community guidelines):
OP - your original post made me chuckle, because I can relate with how you ended up yo-yoing. I think we've all been there (well, maybe not all but a whole heck of a lot of us). Starvation Mode as it's been popularized is (IMO) a cop-out. I love that you've taken responsibility for what got you here and I wish that more people understood more about fitness and nutrition and what restrict/binge cycles do not only physically but emotionally and mentally.6 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »I don't recall seeing anything that required "cleaning up".. but then I'm not the type that needs a "safe space"...
The clean-up wasn't to make this a 'safe space' but to remove content that violated community guidelines. Which are located here: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines so that folks can take a look and not fall afoul of them again.
Since this discussion is about 'Understanding the Starvation Mode myth', getting back on topic (so as to not violate the above linked community guidelines):
OP - your original post made me chuckle, because I can relate with how you ended up yo-yoing. I think we've all been there (well, maybe not all but a whole heck of a lot of us). Starvation Mode as it's been popularized is (IMO) a cop-out. I love that you've taken responsibility for what got you here and I wish that more people understood more about fitness and nutrition and what restrict/binge cycles do not only physically but emotionally and mentally.
You read what I wrote and understood what I was saying.3 -
Well I just loved your story. I laughed out loud at the part where you readjust your feet and move the scale to another part of the floor!!! I have done that!! You are funny and I think you could be a serious writer2
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JustSomeEm wrote: »I don't recall seeing anything that required "cleaning up".. but then I'm not the type that needs a "safe space"...
The clean-up wasn't to make this a 'safe space' but to remove content that violated community guidelines. Which are located here: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines so that folks can take a look and not fall afoul of them again.
Since this discussion is about 'Understanding the Starvation Mode myth', getting back on topic (so as to not violate the above linked community guidelines):
OP - your original post made me chuckle, because I can relate with how you ended up yo-yoing. I think we've all been there (well, maybe not all but a whole heck of a lot of us). Starvation Mode as it's been popularized is (IMO) a cop-out. I love that you've taken responsibility for what got you here and I wish that more people understood more about fitness and nutrition and what restrict/binge cycles do not only physically but emotionally and mentally.
You read what I wrote and understood what I was saying.
I apologize in advance if this comes off any way other than what's intended, which is support, but I didn't see much to "Not understand". Sometimes there are benefits to not being the smartest cookie in the room, I tend to look for the simplest explanations and common denominators.
Your first post ended with this:You are beautiful just the way you are and you dont need others to validate your existence. If they have issues with the way you look, the issue is with themselves, not with you.
That went ALL through me, because of the struggles my youngest has had with the yoyo dieting and self image issues you're talking about. I firmly believe the only reason she didn't spiral further down is that she chose to trust her mother and I, and tell us everything she was feeling. We responded with every variation of that above line that we could give her to think about and consider. She's now 26, comfortable in her own skin, and quite beautiful just as she is.
I won't apologize if I missed your intent, because your post hammered home just the same to me. Thanks
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donnamoore58 wrote: »Well I just loved your story. I laughed out loud at the part where you readjust your feet and move the scale to another part of the floor!!! I have done that!! You are funny and I think you could be a serious writer
I like writing lessons in story form to lighten the mood and make reading it more bearable. Thank you for your kind words. I had intended the post to be light hearted and entertaining.
1 -
JustSomeEm wrote: »I don't recall seeing anything that required "cleaning up".. but then I'm not the type that needs a "safe space"...
The clean-up wasn't to make this a 'safe space' but to remove content that violated community guidelines. Which are located here: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines so that folks can take a look and not fall afoul of them again.
Since this discussion is about 'Understanding the Starvation Mode myth', getting back on topic (so as to not violate the above linked community guidelines):
OP - your original post made me chuckle, because I can relate with how you ended up yo-yoing. I think we've all been there (well, maybe not all but a whole heck of a lot of us). Starvation Mode as it's been popularized is (IMO) a cop-out. I love that you've taken responsibility for what got you here and I wish that more people understood more about fitness and nutrition and what restrict/binge cycles do not only physically but emotionally and mentally.
You read what I wrote and understood what I was saying.
I apologize in advance if this comes off any way other than what's intended, which is support, but I didn't see much to "Not understand". Sometimes there are benefits to not being the smartest cookie in the room, I tend to look for the simplest explanations and common denominators.
Your first post ended with this:You are beautiful just the way you are and you dont need others to validate your existence. If they have issues with the way you look, the issue is with themselves, not with you.
That went ALL through me, because of the struggles my youngest has had with the yoyo dieting and self image issues you're talking about. I firmly believe the only reason she didn't spiral further down is that she chose to trust her mother and I, and tell us everything she was feeling. We responded with every variation of that above line that we could give her to think about and consider. She's now 26, comfortable in her own skin, and quite beautiful just as she is.
I won't apologize if I missed your intent, because your post hammered home just the same to me. Thanks
That is the hardest lesson of all, loving your self. I'm so happy your daughter found peace with who she is.1 -
O.P.
Welcome to mfp and good wishes on your weight loss journey. See you around the forums!2 -
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In my opinion starvation mode is the body slowing metabolism to conserve whats left. I don't see how weight gain could be the result unless calories increase over the long term.
That is the basics of what I believe. Weight gain isnt the result of slowing the metabolism, its the result of falling of the wagon. Here is the basic break up of what I have seen and experienced.
Stage 1: 150lbs, consume 2000 calories a day, walk 2 miles a day.
Stage 2: Consume 800 calories a day,Starve myself to 130, Walk 5 miles a day.
Stage 3: 3 day binge just cause.. Start recounting calories after but this time..eh, I feel like I was over doing it, so consume 1500 calories a day and redrop my walking to 2 miles a day. Gain to 180 lbs.
Stage 4: hover at 180 for 2 years. Redrop calories to 800 a day, walk 2 miles every day. Lose to 140. Also lose my gall bladder.. Surgeon said it was because of the yo-yo dieting.
Stage 5: Fall off again.. eat 2000 calories a day, walk 3 miles 3 times a week, gain to 215 and hold steady.
None of this makes sense until this stage
Stage 6: F it. No walking, no exercise, PTSD, consume who knows what at 3pm every night cause eating breakfast and lunch just isnt your thing, gain to 300. (THAT makes sense. I deserved that.)
What doesnt make sense is the holding steady at the other ridiculous levels when everyone else around you does less and eats more but retains their weight they originally started with because they didnt feel the need to starve off the excess fluff. Every hear a skinny girl brag about how much she eats and how much she eats? Ever witness it...
I understand each persons metabolism is unique unto themselves. Two 5' 1 girls can jog 2 miles a day, weight train 30 minutes every other day, and consume 1800 calories each.. And one could be consuming those 1800 calories in nothing but twinkies and ho-ho's while the other is more self-conscious and never touches packaged foods at all. And the Twinkie lover can be 10-15 lbs lighter than her more anxious counter part. I understand this, but I still dont "get' it. And like I pointed out before. I was the active one in my family with no health issues and was the over weight one. My sister was the one who couldnt walk half a mile without sitting down to take a break while I danced in place impatiently wanting to get moving again. This wasnt my need to work out, this was my energy level. I had an entire world to explore and she was holding me up. She had bad asthma so she had her excuse.
To properly diagnose this you have to take yourself out of the equation. Metabolism is not that terribly different from person to person. The predominant physiological factor is lean muscle mass. Still the dominating factor in weight management is caloric intake. You can either accept this and be successful, or continue to construct excuses.
It is very difficult for trained professionals to estimate calories, which is why many weight management professionals discard calorie counting for the average person doing this on their own. You also have to incorporate the 20% margin of error in calorie estimation, hence the 1000 calorie day you just logged per the label is somewhere between 800 and 1200 calories. You can use MFP successfully by checking your logs to see where the error may have occurred if you are not hitting your goals.
Model your behavior to those who have succeeded and lost 100+ lbs and maintained this over years. In all of these situations the successful share distinct common behaviors:
1. They implemented small changes - rarely anything drastic.
2. They continually set small goals, met the goals, and set new loftier goals.
3. Weight loss was a smaller goal to a larger vision (long life, improved life, kids, athletic performance, etc.)
Here's a link to the National Weight Control Registry - one of the most informative sites on long term success:
http://nwcr.ws/
Though I disagree with some of what was said, I find much of it informative. Thank you for participating. I will check out the site. I think people may be misunderstanding my intent here. Many seem to think that I am blaming a system or excusing bad behavior. My mother believes strongly in the starvation mode. She accuses her weight and her lack of losing weight on it. She truly believes she destroyed her metabolism and no matter what I say to her or how I try to convince her that this is all hog wash, she is stuck in her beliefs that she can never lose the weight and has accepted her lot in life. I dont believe in "starvation mode" the same way she does. Ive tried to tell her that her lack of success in weight loss, is due to her lack of getting off her duff. I KNOW I can lose weight. I am CONFIDENT I will. I am not *kitten* footing around making excuses to the contrary. I dont know where everyone is getting that I have given up from my story. Quite the opposite, I now realize my idiocy and can make smart changes for once in my life. I find this to be one of the most straight forward memes.
What parts do you disagree with?
I recognize your tongue in cheek humor and very much appreciate it. I simply want you to succeed and don't want you to set unrealistic goals.
0
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