Wanting to gain muscle!

TrainingSayian

I'm relatively new to the whole diet thing. But I exercise regularly. Right now I weight 152lbs at 5" 10 and I'm trying to get to 170lbs or close to it after research many say to cut first then gain. Which I have no problem with. Anyone have any suggestions for starting macro wise? Or any advice, also I do take whey protien after workouts.

Thanks in advance

galgenstrick

I'm confused. Are you saying you're going to cut right now or bulk to 170?

Meal timing doesn't matter too much. Just make sure to hit your numbers every day.

Flyeaglesfly8630

Check out. http://www.buffdudes.us it's a great site or check know them out on YouTube they have helped me a lot plus they are coming out with a bulk tutorial soon

psuLemon

Whether or not you bulk will depend on a few things. First, do you happen to know your body fat %? If not, can you post a pic so we can estimate? The thing is, some will suggest cutting first if you are at a high level of body fat. The reason is, the leaner you are, the more likely you will gain more muscle than fat. As your body fat gets high, insulin sensitivity increase and you are more prone to fat. So starting at 10% and bulking until you are around 18% (for males), is a way for men to stay lean and maximize results.

Macro wise, protein should be around ~1g per lb of lean body mass, fats should be .35 to .6g per lb of lean body mass and carbs are the rest.

Timing isn't so important in the grand scheme of things or at least not until you address calorie, protien and nutrient requirements. But if you would look to get everything out of your bulk, I would probably spread protein out throughout the day (~ 30g) as a means to maintain MPS levels, and have some protein/carbs around your workout. But again, this is largely not as important as other stuff.

Eric Helms has a very good picture of the importance of things.

TrainingSayian

My BMI came out to 21 I know it's not %. Thanks all for info on the topic I'll post pic later for reference.

TrainingSayian

I'm also using the Macros app for iPhone and it breaks down my carb, protein, and fat in grams for a daily intake. It goes off weight height age etc.

TrainingSayian

galgenstrick wrote: »

I'm confused. Are you saying you're going to cut right now or bulk to 170?

Meal timing doesn't matter too much. Just make sure to hit your numbers every day.

I'm trying to get bigger bulk to 170 muscle gain idk if that's a redundant statement

psuLemon

TrainingSayian wrote: »

My BMI came out to 21 I know it's not %. Thanks all for info on the topic I'll post pic later for reference.

BMI is kind of worthless. Body fst is the major driver. Do have you a six pack or the beginnings of one?

aim4fit5062

Timing is very important post work out! Don't miss that window to get in a quick protein and simple sugar source so the protein can be absorbed quickly. Personally i take phorm1 (supplement super store..no i don't work fir them) and i gained 7% muscle readily. You can also add creatine monohydrate to help increase lean size and strength. The more muscle you build, the more fat you will burn so i don't believe in cutting first. Just lift and be strict w your form so you can keep lifting. Def track your macros and adjust % through trial and error.

TrainingSayian

trigden1991

aim4fit5062 wrote: »

Timing is very important post work out! Don't miss that window to get in a quick protein and simple sugar source so the protein can be absorbed quickly. Personally i take phorm1 (supplement super store..no i don't work fir them) and i gained 7% muscle readily. You can also add creatine monohydrate to help increase lean size and strength. The more muscle you build, the more fat you will burn so i don't believe in cutting first. Just lift and be strict w your form so you can keep lifting. Def track your macros and adjust % through trial and error.

1) Timing is not important
2) There is no "window"
3)You didn't gain "7% of muscle readily"
4)To burn more fat, you need a calorie deficit, not more muscle

psuLemon

OP, your body fat might be a little high, but you are also probably not in a bad place to bulk. I am not sure I would bulk all the way to your original goal, but you can take that into consideration as you go. The best thing you can do is get onto a good structured program, like one of the ones below, and work on nutrition.


http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10332083/which-lifting-program-is-the-best-for-you/p1

aim4fit5062

Trigden1991
For me, a hard gainer, there is an anabolic window of up to 2 hrs. I believe it is different for each person as we all have different metabolic characteristics.....and training Sayian looks like he's in the same boat as me...and so do you frankly. It's not the whole solution to mass gaining, but part of the solution. Other parts had already been addressed by others so no need to rehash.

psuLemon

aim4fit5062 wrote: »

Trigden1991
For me, a hard gainer, there is an anabolic window of up to 2 hrs. I believe it is different for each person as we all have different metabolic characteristics.....and training Sayian looks like he's in the same boat as me...and so do you frankly. It's not the whole solution to mass gaining, but part of the solution. Other parts had already been addressed by others so no need to rehash.

How many calories are you eating? Typically, those who are "hard gainers" just struggle getting the calories they need. Typically, they have active jobs, aren't eating frequently, or putting a lot of limiting factors on what foods they can or cannot eat (sometimes allergies plans in effect). But if you look at the science (linked below), there really isn't a window post exercise, but there may be a benefit to consume some protein either pre- or post- workout within a 2 hour window but further research still needs to be done to compare about total intake.


"Despite claims that immediate post-exercise nutritional intake is essential to maximize hypertrophic gains, evidence-based support for such an “anabolic window of opportunity” is far from definitive. The hypothesis is based largely on the pre-supposition that training is carried out in a fasted state. During fasted exercise, a concomitant increase in muscle protein breakdown causes the pre-exercise net negative amino acid balance to persist in the post-exercise period despite training-induced increases in muscle protein synthesis [36]. Thus, in the case of resistance training after an overnight fast, it would make sense to provide immediate nutritional intervention--ideally in the form of a combination of protein and carbohydrate--for the purposes of promoting muscle protein synthesis and reducing proteolysis, thereby switching a net catabolic state into an anabolic one. Over a chronic period, this tactic could conceivably lead cumulatively to an increased rate of gains in muscle mass."

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1550-2783-10-5



ETA: With this said, I do consume a pre workout protein shake (since my lunch is 4 hours prior) to hold off hunger and I consume dinner right after. If anything is important, I would rather spread out protein as luecine stimulates MPS.

BrianKMcFalls

Are you looking at 170 as your final goal, or your goal for this bulk?

TrainingSayian

BrianKMcFalls wrote: »

Are you looking at 170 as your final goal, or your goal for this bulk?

Final goal is to be 170lb if I'm a little under from cut is fine

BrianKMcFalls

TrainingSayian wrote: »

BrianKMcFalls wrote: »

Are you looking at 170 as your final goal, or your goal for this bulk?

Final goal is to be 170lb if I'm a little under from cut is fine

Are you currently running a weight lifting program?

TrainingSayian

BrianKMcFalls wrote: »

TrainingSayian wrote: »

BrianKMcFalls wrote: »

Are you looking at 170 as your final goal, or your goal for this bulk?

Final goal is to be 170lb if I'm a little under from cut is fine

Are you currently running a weight lifting program?

No I'm not

psuLemon

TrainingSayian wrote: »

BrianKMcFalls wrote: »

TrainingSayian wrote: »

BrianKMcFalls wrote: »

Are you looking at 170 as your final goal, or your goal for this bulk?

Final goal is to be 170lb if I'm a little under from cut is fine

Are you currently running a weight lifting program?

No I'm not

Well that should be your step 1

itsthehumidity

TrainingSayian wrote: »

Right now I weight 152lbs at 5" 10

The problem appears to be that you're under six inches tall, but you weigh 152 pounds. I suggest cutting down to about half a pound or so, which would be more in line with your diminutive stature.

sgt1372

OP: You are a classic "skinny fat" person. Your objective really should be body re-composition -- not weight loss or gain.

You need to lose fat and gain (or maintain muscle) by doing low rep heavy compound lifts (no hi rep/low wt stuff), eliminate any high endurance cardio and eat at maintenance (calculate your TDEE) w/in +/- 100 cal/day so that you do not gain weight using a macro of at least 35-40% protein, 35-40% carb and 20-30% fat.

Starting Strength (SS) or Stronglifts (SL) would be suitable weight lifting programs. They both focus on the Big 4 compound lifts -- bench press, deadlift, overhead press and squat. These are all of the lifts you need to do. No need to bother with any accessory or isolation lifts. Not even rows or power cleans also used by SL and SS, respectively. In fact, too much additional lifting, could be detrimental to your ability to do the basic 4 compound lifts. So, just focus on them.

You shouldn't even think about gaining weight until you get your BF down to at least 15%. Get a DXA scan or Hydrostatic test to best determine your BF level initially and every 3 months thereafter. Bioelectrical devices are basically worthless in terms of accuracy but can be useless to map trends. Calipers can be accurate if used by an experienced operator but there are very few people who can use them well.

You should shoot for at least 1g/lb of body weight in order to have enough available for muscle growth. IMO, the more protein the better; excess protein will convert to sugar and will be consumed as part of your normal energy needs as long as you are not eating at an excess It will NOT hurt you. You need protein for muscle development. Protein is also harder to digest, makes you feel full (so you'll eat less) and requires more energy to digest. The only caveat would be that the extra protein is useless if you are not doing any lifting to make use of it.

Below is a link to an article on how to address the skinny fat 'problem." There's some nonsense and hype in this article but there's good advice too. Just ignore the hype and follow the essential tips:

-- Learn to Diet Properly
-- Focus on Heavy Compound Weight Lifting
-- Cut Back on Cardio

See: https://www.muscleforlife.com/skinny-fat-solution/

Good luck!

_benjammin

^Agree
OP, figure out what kinda of training you will enjoy. Eat. Measure training progress and don't worry so much about the scale.
If you can get a hold of a barbell, I hope you like it, it'll yield you gains.

TrainingSayian

sgt1372 wrote: »

OP: You are a classic "skinny fat" person. Your objective really should be body re-composition -- not weight loss or gain.

You need to lose fat and gain (or maintain muscle) by doing low rep heavy compound lifts (no hi rep/low wt stuff), eliminate any high endurance cardio and eat at maintenance (calculate your TDEE) w/in +/- 100 cal/day so that you do not gain weight using a macro of at least 35-40% protein, 35-40% carb and 20-30% fat.

Starting Strength (SS) or Stronglifts (SL) would be suitable weight lifting programs. They both focus on the Big 4 compound lifts -- bench press, deadlift, overhead press and squat. These are all of the lifts you need to do. No need to bother with any accessory or isolation lifts. Not even rows or power cleans also used by SL and SS, respectively. In fact, too much additional lifting, could be detrimental to your ability to do the basic 4 compound lifts. So, just focus on them.

You shouldn't even think about gaining weight until you get your BF down to at least 15%. Get a DXA scan or Hydrostatic test to best determine your BF level initially and every 3 months thereafter. Bioelectrical devices are basically worthless in terms of accuracy but can be useless to map trends. Calipers can be accurate if used by an experienced operator but there are very few people who can use them well.

You should shoot for at least 1g/lb of body weight in order to have enough available for muscle growth. IMO, the more protein the better; excess protein will convert to sugar and will be consumed as part of your normal energy needs as long as you are not eating at an excess It will NOT hurt you. You need protein for muscle development. Protein is also harder to digest, makes you feel full (so you'll eat less) and requires more energy to digest. The only caveat would be that the extra protein is useless if you are not doing any lifting to make use of it.

Below is a link to an article on how to address the skinny fat 'problem." There's some nonsense and hype in this article but there's good advice too. Just ignore the hype and follow the essential tips:

-- Learn to Diet Properly
-- Focus on Heavy Compound Weight Lifting
-- Cut Back on Cardio

See: https://www.muscleforlife.com/skinny-fat-solution/

Good luck!

I'm planing to start with the 5x5 lift program. I'm getting a lot of different versions for my goal some here say don't cut first just have a 3500 cal diet, then some say cut first. Haha so ima have to do a little trial and error to see what works best. I'm not really sure where or how to get an accurate reading on body fat index. I'm already starting a high protein diet either way shakes included.

TrainingSayian

Also I plan to do the 5x5 3 days a week not consecutive but would it overkill or pointless to put a arm day between them?

TR0berts

TrainingSayian wrote: »

Also I plan to do the 5x5 3 days a week not consecutive but would it overkill or pointless to put a arm day between them?

If you really want to do extra arm work, then you may want to try ICF. It's a 5x5 (like Stronglifts), but with accessory work.

TrainingSayian

Would it be more beneficial to add a leg day or is that gonna wreck me lol?

TR0berts

Absolutely, positively, "no" to an additional leg day. You're squatting 3x per week, deadlifting 1x or 2x per week, depending on the week.

TrainingSayian

Dually noted lol.

psuLemon

If you really want to do accessories, you can, but I would think an arm day is fairly pointless. As Charles Poliquin says, if you want to add a pound of muscle to your arms, add 10 pounds to your whole body.

TrainingSayian

Is there an alternative workout for the overhead press the bench setup at my gym is somewhat in closed so idk if it can actually fully or even half way extend the press.

BrianKMcFalls

Do you have a seated shoulder press rack, I use that for my presses, I just stand with a leg on either side of the seat. I am too tall to press in the rack.