Bro, do you even eat clean?
psuLemon
Posts: 38,432 MFP Moderator
I know this has been brought up a lot, and will continuously get debated since it's a huge topic in the industry current. There are those who believe in clean eating and that is fine but I wanted to provide some thoughts on clean eating from a recent video from Dr. Layne Norton.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge3NPxoCuAI
One of the main reasons I am posting this, is because it's one of many factors that limit people from reaching their calorie goals, continuously failing to make progress -often for years-, and give people the belief they are hard gainers.
Ultimately, my goal here is provide a one stop source (articles, videos, studies, etc...) to help inform the community. So please feel free to add additional information to this thread or even ask questions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge3NPxoCuAIOne of the main reasons I am posting this, is because it's one of many factors that limit people from reaching their calorie goals, continuously failing to make progress -often for years-, and give people the belief they are hard gainers.
Ultimately, my goal here is provide a one stop source (articles, videos, studies, etc...) to help inform the community. So please feel free to add additional information to this thread or even ask questions.
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Replies
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Thank you - this is so helpful!
(Poor guy sounds like he has a nasty cold!)1 -
comptonelizabeth wrote: »Thank you - this is so helpful!
(Poor guy sounds like he has a nasty cold!)
He always sounds like that.1 -
@psuLemon - I'm C&Ping his references and links from youtube for ease of reference if anyone wants to browse them.
Excellent video by the way. He breaks everything down simply - even I can understand it lol. Thanks
Published on Jan 17, 2017
Clean eating seems intuitive to many people, but is it really? Is clean eating real? Can it be defined? Is it superior to a model of flexible dieting?
References:
A review of the carbohydrate-insulin model of obesity: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
Bier DM. The energy cost of protein metabolism: lean and mean on Uncle Sam’s team. In: The role of protein and amino acids in sustaining and enhancing performance. Washington, DC: National Academies Press, 1999:109-19.
Buchnolz AC and Schoeller DA. Is a calorie a calorie? Am J Clin Nutr, 2004:79(suppl): 899S-906S.
West JA, de Looy AE. Weight loss in overweight subjects following low-sucrose or sucrose-containing diets. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2001 Aug;25(8):1122-8.
Saris WH, Astrup A, Prentice AM, Zunft HJ, Formiguera X, Verboeket-van de Venne WP, Raben A, Poppitt SD, Seppelt B, Johnston S, Vasilaras TH, Keogh GF. Randomized controlled trial of changes in dietary carbohydrate/fat ratio and simple vs complex carbohydrates on body weight and blood lipids: the CARMEN study. The Carbohydrate Ratio Management in European National diets. Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2000 Oct;24(10):1310-8.
Raatz SK, Torkelson CJ, Redmon JB, Reck KP, Kwong CA, Swanson JE, Liu C, Thomas W, Bantle JP. Reduced glycemic index and glycemic load diets do not increase the effects of energy restriction on weight loss and insulin sensitivity in obese men and women. J Nutr. 2005 Oct;135(10):2387-91.
Surwit RS, Feinglos MN, McCaskill CC, Clay SL, Babyak MA, Brownlow BS, Plaisted CS, Lin PH. Metabolic and behavioral effects of a high-sucrose diet during weight loss. Am J Clin Nutr. 1997 Apr;65(4):908-15.
Saturated fat & heart disease: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?...
Dairy & Health:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2...
Restrictive Dieting & Binge eating
Smith CF, Williamson DA, Bray GA, Ryan DH. Flexible vs Rigid Dieting Strategies: Relationship with Adverse Behavioral Outcomes. Appetite, 1999, 32, 295-305
Meule A, Westenhofer J, Kubler A. Food cravings mediate the relationship between rigid, but not flexible control of eating behavior and dieting success.
Stotland. Moderation: An alternative to restraint as a mode of weight self-regulation. Eating Behaviors 2012, 13;406-409.4 -
^Good idea0
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following for the inevitable "yea, but you will gain fat if you don't eat clean"2
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following for the inevitable "yea, but you will gain fat if you don't eat clean"
I will. Not because of quackery, but because I seem to want to put down at least a pound of food at any given meal, no matter what it consists of.
A pound of chicken breast and apples? Maybe 500 kcals.
A pound of chicken thigh? A bit over 1100.
Anything less than a pound is a snack for me when bulking. The only exception seems to be protein bars. I think I might actually rupture something if I tried to eat a pound of Quest bars. That would be like 8.5 of them at once.3 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »following for the inevitable "yea, but you will gain fat if you don't eat clean"
I will. Not because of quackery, but because I seem to want to put down at least a pound of food at any given meal, no matter what it consists of.
A pound of chicken breast and apples? Maybe 500 kcals.
A pound of chicken thigh? A bit over 1100.
Anything less than a pound is a snack for me when bulking. The only exception seems to be protein bars. I think I might actually rupture something if I tried to eat a pound of Quest bars. That would be like 8.5 of them at once.
Volume of food is a huge thing for me during a cut. So I definitely try to eat more lean and wholesome while I cut down. Although, I am carb/calorie cycling currently, and ironically, I struggle to his my carb goals on high carb days.1 -
Awesome stuff. Do you guys know of any scientific evidence that links food and autoimmune disease? Would greatly appreciate any reference!0
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There is another study about the possible link between salt and autoimmune disorders (re inflammation) but I couldn't find the study,only articles0
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I eat clean the Majority of the time, BUT I allow myself routine cheat days and cheat meals. My cheats are always planned out ahead of time so I am able to meal prep accordingly.0
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Well, I am most interested in myasthenia gravis.
Internet wisdom says that eating 'clean' (as in organic, non-gmo) is particularly important for ppl suffering for autoimmune diseases. Whether the diet should be vegan or paleo-based autoimmune protocol, is, however, a different debate.
So, I am interested in some scientific evidence as to what clean should mean for ppl with autoimmune disease.
Personally, I feel better of when I am not eating gluten & diary. I have not tried vegan diet, though so I cannot compare to that. I am not intolerant to either gluten, nor diary btw.
Bottom line for me: for healthy people following a flexitarian diet is probably best, but for autoimmune diseases this affirmation may not hold.0 -
Thanks for this post! Very insightful for a novice like me.0
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Well, I am most interested in myasthenia gravis.
Internet wisdom says that eating 'clean' (as in organic, non-gmo) is particularly important for ppl suffering for autoimmune diseases. Whether the diet should be vegan or paleo-based autoimmune protocol, is, however, a different debate.
So, I am interested in some scientific evidence as to what clean should mean for ppl with autoimmune disease.
Personally, I feel better of when I am not eating gluten & diary. I have not tried vegan diet, though so I cannot compare to that. I am not intolerant to either gluten, nor diary btw.
Bottom line for me: for healthy people following a flexitarian diet is probably best, but for autoimmune diseases this affirmation may not hold.
I haven't seen this with my wifes autoimmune issue. Each autoimmune disease is highly different and I have yet to see one that would benefit from organic or non-gmo (although there are a very wide arrange of auto-immune issues, so I lack knowledge in many of those areas). My wife has Postural Orthostatic Tachycaria Syndrome, which has wide variability in the disease itself. Since it's a fairly newly discovered disease, it doesn't have overly too much research when it comes to food (outside of the benefits of salt - my wife needs 10,000mg a day). With her condition, some benefit from low carb, others it's gluten free or even lactose free. My wife is currently gluten free, but we are probably going to test a few more variables as she has a few other conditions that benefit from whole grains. The last time we tried elimination diets, my wife saw improvements on low carb , which subsequently was gluten free as well.
Unfortunately, I don't know of any research as it relates to yours and even with my wife's condition, there isn't much research. So I definitely feel your pain.0 -
@psuLemon Thanks for posting this video. Hopefully alot more watch it. So helpful! Planning is so important to flexible dieting.
I like how Layne uses the term "macro money". You may budget money spent so why not budget your macros for the day. If I want that ice cream or pizza later I will save my macros for it. So earlier in the day I will eat lower carb and lower fat to meet my budget.0 -
comptonelizabeth wrote: »Thank you - this is so helpful!
(Poor guy sounds like he has a nasty cold!)
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@psuLemon Let's hope that, with autoimmune diseases on the rise, there will also be more research as it is becoming a public health concern. Unfortunately, many diseases taken alone are so rare, that there is no economic benefit in studying them... Till scientific evidence is available, trial and error must do! All the best to your wife!0
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@psuLemon Let's hope that, with autoimmune diseases on the rise, there will also be more research as it is becoming a public health concern. Unfortunately, many diseases taken alone are so rare, that there is no economic benefit in studying them... Till scientific evidence is available, trial and error must do! All the best to your wife!
There's plenty of economic benefit in them. You fix such issues, you improve lifespan, and no one is easier for the medical community and Pharma companies to fleece than the elderly. They're just so willing to piss away millions for a couple of extra years.
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Is there a single "RIGHT" way to eat? Your diet really should be what works for YOU and helps YOU achieve YOUR goals. My diet for ME is primarily low glycemic complex carbs, eggs, chicken, turkey, beef and fish. Once every few weeks I enjoy a "Cheat Meal" which is eating whatever I want. In March on my 50th birthday Im having a day of eating whatever my heart desires and maybe a couple IPA's. Those occasional cheats actually help ME stay on point with my diet. Its not for everyone, But it works for ME.2
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jwknight67 wrote: »Is there a single "RIGHT" way to eat? Your diet really should be what works for YOU and helps YOU achieve YOUR goals. My diet for ME is primarily low glycemic complex carbs, eggs, chicken, turkey, beef and fish. Once every few weeks I enjoy a "Cheat Meal" which is eating whatever I want. In March on my 50th birthday Im having a day of eating whatever my heart desires and maybe a couple IPA's. Those occasional cheats actually help ME stay on point with my diet. Its not for everyone, But it works for ME.
that is great...but the whole low glycemic carb thing is pretty much BS unless you have some kind of medical condition ..2 -
I had gastric bypass a few years back, and found those are what work best with a re-routed digestive systemjwknight67 wrote: »Is there a single "RIGHT" way to eat? Your diet really should be what works for YOU and helps YOU achieve YOUR goals. My diet for ME is primarily low glycemic complex carbs, eggs, chicken, turkey, beef and fish. Once every few weeks I enjoy a "Cheat Meal" which is eating whatever I want. In March on my 50th birthday Im having a day of eating whatever my heart desires and maybe a couple IPA's. Those occasional cheats actually help ME stay on point with my diet. Its not for everyone, But it works for ME.
that is great...but the whole low glycemic carb thing is pretty much BS unless you have some kind of medical condition ..
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jwknight67 wrote: »Is there a single "RIGHT" way to eat? Your diet really should be what works for YOU and helps YOU achieve YOUR goals. My diet for ME is primarily low glycemic complex carbs, eggs, chicken, turkey, beef and fish. Once every few weeks I enjoy a "Cheat Meal" which is eating whatever I want. In March on my 50th birthday Im having a day of eating whatever my heart desires and maybe a couple IPA's. Those occasional cheats actually help ME stay on point with my diet. Its not for everyone, But it works for ME.
That isnt what this video is about. This is arguing against "clean" eating which is an erroneous term.1 -
jwknight67 wrote: »Is there a single "RIGHT" way to eat? Your diet really should be what works for YOU and helps YOU achieve YOUR goals. My diet for ME is primarily low glycemic complex carbs, eggs, chicken, turkey, beef and fish. Once every few weeks I enjoy a "Cheat Meal" which is eating whatever I want. In March on my 50th birthday Im having a day of eating whatever my heart desires and maybe a couple IPA's. Those occasional cheats actually help ME stay on point with my diet. Its not for everyone, But it works for ME.
That isnt what this video is about. This is arguing against "clean" eating which is an erroneous term.
The way I always understood Clean, is not full of preservatives, or fed with hormones.Healthy foods that won't be contributing to a triple bypass later in life. Is there really such a thing? I cant say for sure. For example, a Big Mac, is high in calories, contains carbs and proteins, but is it healthy? Is it Clean? I would say no. If you go to Chipotle and order a chicken bowl with brown rice, black beans, Chicken and Fajitas. Their chicken is free range chickens, The veggies are organic. (Organic, means no pesticides) Is it clean? Yes, because its not pumped full of preservatives which allows better digestion and absorption of nutrients.0 -
jwknight67 wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »Is there a single "RIGHT" way to eat? Your diet really should be what works for YOU and helps YOU achieve YOUR goals. My diet for ME is primarily low glycemic complex carbs, eggs, chicken, turkey, beef and fish. Once every few weeks I enjoy a "Cheat Meal" which is eating whatever I want. In March on my 50th birthday Im having a day of eating whatever my heart desires and maybe a couple IPA's. Those occasional cheats actually help ME stay on point with my diet. Its not for everyone, But it works for ME.
That isnt what this video is about. This is arguing against "clean" eating which is an erroneous term.
The way I always understood Clean, is not full of preservatives, or fed with hormones.Healthy foods that won't be contributing to a triple bypass later in life. Is there really such a thing? I cant say for sure. For example, a Big Mac, is high in calories, contains carbs and proteins, but is it healthy? Is it Clean? I would say no. If you go to Chipotle and order a chicken bowl with brown rice, black beans, Chicken and Fajitas. Their chicken is free range chickens, The veggies are organic. (Organic, means no pesticides) Is it clean? Yes, because its not pumped full of preservatives which allows better digestion and absorption of nutrients.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10337480/what-is-clean-eating/p1
Everyone has a different idea of what "clean" means, which is why the term is erroneous.1 -
I'll never get over seriously being asked "What do you think the super fit people on Instagram eat on Thanksgiving?"
I sad the same thing we would and was just told no and given a dirty look.
I miss the podcast man.0 -
jwknight67 wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »Is there a single "RIGHT" way to eat? Your diet really should be what works for YOU and helps YOU achieve YOUR goals. My diet for ME is primarily low glycemic complex carbs, eggs, chicken, turkey, beef and fish. Once every few weeks I enjoy a "Cheat Meal" which is eating whatever I want. In March on my 50th birthday Im having a day of eating whatever my heart desires and maybe a couple IPA's. Those occasional cheats actually help ME stay on point with my diet. Its not for everyone, But it works for ME.
That isnt what this video is about. This is arguing against "clean" eating which is an erroneous term.
The way I always understood Clean, is not full of preservatives, or fed with hormones.Healthy foods that won't be contributing to a triple bypass later in life. Is there really such a thing? I cant say for sure. For example, a Big Mac, is high in calories, contains carbs and proteins, but is it healthy? Is it Clean? I would say no. If you go to Chipotle and order a chicken bowl with brown rice, black beans, Chicken and Fajitas. Their chicken is free range chickens, The veggies are organic. (Organic, means no pesticides) Is it clean? Yes, because its not pumped full of preservatives which allows better digestion and absorption of nutrients.
There is a lot of grey. Yogurt for example would be clean to me but not others since its processed. How about protein powders? And i haven't really hard people used organic or grass fed as a requirement. Especially since organic still uses pesticides, just natural ones.
In your example, if i did white rice at chipotle instead if brown, would it make it unclean?
And this is the point. There are no universal definitions. One food doesn't contribute to a triple bypass but overall poor diets, inactivity and obesity... and maybe genetics.
And that is the argument that Layne Norton makes.3 -
jwknight67 wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »Is there a single "RIGHT" way to eat? Your diet really should be what works for YOU and helps YOU achieve YOUR goals. My diet for ME is primarily low glycemic complex carbs, eggs, chicken, turkey, beef and fish. Once every few weeks I enjoy a "Cheat Meal" which is eating whatever I want. In March on my 50th birthday Im having a day of eating whatever my heart desires and maybe a couple IPA's. Those occasional cheats actually help ME stay on point with my diet. Its not for everyone, But it works for ME.
That isnt what this video is about. This is arguing against "clean" eating which is an erroneous term.
The way I always understood Clean, is not full of preservatives, or fed with hormones.Healthy foods that won't be contributing to a triple bypass later in life. Is there really such a thing? I cant say for sure. For example, a Big Mac, is high in calories, contains carbs and proteins, but is it healthy? Is it Clean? I would say no. If you go to Chipotle and order a chicken bowl with brown rice, black beans, Chicken and Fajitas. Their chicken is free range chickens, The veggies are organic. (Organic, means no pesticides) Is it clean? Yes, because its not pumped full of preservatives which allows better digestion and absorption of nutrients.
There is a lot of grey. Yogurt for example would be clean to me but not others since its processed. How about protein powders? And i haven't really hard people used organic or grass fed as a requirement. Especially since organic still uses pesticides, just natural ones.
In your example, if i did white rice at chipotle instead if brown, would it make it unclean?
And this is the point. There are no universal definitions. One food doesn't contribute to a triple bypass but overall poor diets, inactivity and obesity... and maybe genetics.
And that is the argument that Layne Norton makes.
You are right about the gray areas in eating clean. Much of my diet comes from my personal theory of learning from prior generations. I am my fathers genetic clone. I take after him with every physical attribute with my body. He is 76 with several health issues and takes a long list of meds every day. His diet was not very good, and he never exercised. When I was a teen and asked for a weight set and bench for Christmas, he thought I was nuts.
I workout all the time, I dont do fast food (unless Im on a long road trip and there is no other option). Currently I dont take any prescription meds. I firmly believe this is due to making healthier food choices and exercising. Is my food "Clean"? That can be debated until the next century, BUT I make sure that everything I eat can benefit my body and my goals.0 -
jwknight67 wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »jwknight67 wrote: »Is there a single "RIGHT" way to eat? Your diet really should be what works for YOU and helps YOU achieve YOUR goals. My diet for ME is primarily low glycemic complex carbs, eggs, chicken, turkey, beef and fish. Once every few weeks I enjoy a "Cheat Meal" which is eating whatever I want. In March on my 50th birthday Im having a day of eating whatever my heart desires and maybe a couple IPA's. Those occasional cheats actually help ME stay on point with my diet. Its not for everyone, But it works for ME.
That isnt what this video is about. This is arguing against "clean" eating which is an erroneous term.
The way I always understood Clean, is not full of preservatives, or fed with hormones.Healthy foods that won't be contributing to a triple bypass later in life. Is there really such a thing? I cant say for sure. For example, a Big Mac, is high in calories, contains carbs and proteins, but is it healthy? Is it Clean? I would say no. If you go to Chipotle and order a chicken bowl with brown rice, black beans, Chicken and Fajitas. Their chicken is free range chickens, The veggies are organic. (Organic, means no pesticides) Is it clean? Yes, because its not pumped full of preservatives which allows better digestion and absorption of nutrients.
There is a lot of grey. Yogurt for example would be clean to me but not others since its processed. How about protein powders? And i haven't really hard people used organic or grass fed as a requirement. Especially since organic still uses pesticides, just natural ones.
In your example, if i did white rice at chipotle instead if brown, would it make it unclean?
And this is the point. There are no universal definitions. One food doesn't contribute to a triple bypass but overall poor diets, inactivity and obesity... and maybe genetics.
And that is the argument that Layne Norton makes.
You are right about the gray areas in eating clean. Much of my diet comes from my personal theory of learning from prior generations. I am my fathers genetic clone. I take after him with every physical attribute with my body. He is 76 with several health issues and takes a long list of meds every day. His diet was not very good, and he never exercised. When I was a teen and asked for a weight set and bench for Christmas, he thought I was nuts.
I workout all the time, I dont do fast food (unless Im on a long road trip and there is no other option). Currently I dont take any prescription meds. I firmly believe this is due to making healthier food choices and exercising. Is my food "Clean"? That can be debated until the next century, BUT I make sure that everything I eat can benefit my body and my goals.
Interestingly enough, my great uncle passed away last year at 97 years old. He ate like crap and never exercised. It really goes to show that genetics is a huge player. What staying active and eating right will do is improve the odds and reduce unnecessary illnesses/diseases.1
This discussion has been closed.
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