What is your recipe for strength gains?
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The long and short of it is, the areas you can actually influence are your training/technique and your muscle size. As I already mentioned, if the OP could already bench 185 as a petite female her training and technique are probably very near optimal which means muscle size is pretty much going to be the main determining factor at this point in the quest to get stronger. More calories would be the prescription which conflict with the OP's desire to not put on any size. Hence why I mentioned she's probably going to have to change her goals (either be content with current strength levels or be willing to put on size). I'm trying to keep the explanation and advice simple and on-point for the sake of brevity, but if you want to read dozens of pages then just visit the link above.
To ease some confusion, I was NOT benching 3x5 at 185. I would only do one set of 3-5 (depending on the amount of 1,3 in my system, hahahaha.) I would bow down to pretty much any female that could do 3x5 of 185. But I am increasingly more frustrated every chest day that I pretty much can't accomplish a full rep of 185 without a little help from my spot. Maybe it's mental. (Or maybe I'm mental.)
I find it hard to accept that I've reached an impass between losing BF in order to remain relatively the same size and also gain enough muscle to make some strength gains -- below 17% seems somewhat dangerous to maintain for a 22 yo female.
...maybe I'll try upping the carbs to compensate for the fact that 4-6 hours of sleep per night is a luxury until my MCAT.0 -
briannasnyder12 wrote: »
The long and short of it is, the areas you can actually influence are your training/technique and your muscle size. As I already mentioned, if the OP could already bench 185 as a petite female her training and technique are probably very near optimal which means muscle size is pretty much going to be the main determining factor at this point in the quest to get stronger. More calories would be the prescription which conflict with the OP's desire to not put on any size. Hence why I mentioned she's probably going to have to change her goals (either be content with current strength levels or be willing to put on size). I'm trying to keep the explanation and advice simple and on-point for the sake of brevity, but if you want to read dozens of pages then just visit the link above.
To ease some confusion, I was NOT benching 3x5 at 185. I would only do one set of 3-5 (depending on the amount of 1,3 in my system, hahahaha.) I would bow down to pretty much any female that could do 3x5 of 185. But I am increasingly more frustrated every chest day that I pretty much can't accomplish a full rep of 185 without a little help from my spot. Maybe it's mental. (Or maybe I'm mental.)
I find it hard to accept that I've reached an impass between losing BF in order to remain relatively the same size and also gain enough muscle to make some strength gains -- below 17% seems somewhat dangerous to maintain for a 22 yo female.
...maybe I'll try upping the carbs to compensate for the fact that 4-6 hours of sleep per night is a luxury until my MCAT.
I actually thought your 185 was your 1RM. If you were managing 3-5 reps of it that is insane. I only know one or two women that can do that and they are both much larger than you. Impressive!0 -
I actually thought your 185 was your 1RM. If you were managing 3-5 reps of it that is insane. I only know one or two women that can do that and they are both much larger than you. Impressive!
Haha well thank you! I attribute it to easy access to Mesomorph and L-Arginine. Thank you very much for your advice in this thread! I appreciate it.2 -
I'm 37, 5'3, started at 127lbs ended at 137lbs after almost a year of bulking. I started at 1900 calories and ended up at 2600. I'm definitely over 17% bf (I'm estimating 23% from previous measure). Bulking has been extremely beneficial for my strength. My total was 510 in August; 570 in Feb...60lbs added to total and only added 5lbs of bw.0
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briannasnyder12 wrote: »
I actually thought your 185 was your 1RM. If you were managing 3-5 reps of it that is insane. I only know one or two women that can do that and they are both much larger than you. Impressive!
Haha well thank you! I attribute it to easy access to Mesomorph and L-Arginine. Thank you very much for your advice in this thread! I appreciate it.
Well unfortunately is has nothing to do with your Somatotype or a simple amino like arginine. It's all due to your hard work and determination. I must ask though, are these from lock out to touching your chest reps? Because if so, bravo!
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Well unfortunately is has nothing to do with your Somatotype or a simple amino like arginine. It's all due to your hard work and determination. I must ask though, are these from lock out to touching your chest reps? Because if so, bravo!
Mesomorph is a preworkout I really like containing DMAA. Gives me tunnel vision, ahhaha. But thank you! And yes, I can proudly say I could do consistently, each chest day, a set of 3 with good form. Nothing like DMAA + pump up music!
Sadly that all feels like a distant memory0 -
OP you never did say what your programming is like. What have you been up to/what are you doing currently?
You are lean and strong AF. There comes a time when you just gotta put on more muscle. That being said, you are like...my role model right now.0 -
briannasnyder12 wrote: »
Well unfortunately is has nothing to do with your Somatotype or a simple amino like arginine. It's all due to your hard work and determination. I must ask though, are these from lock out to touching your chest reps? Because if so, bravo!
Mesomorph is a preworkout I really like containing DMAA. Gives me tunnel vision, ahhaha. But thank you! And yes, I can proudly say I could do consistently, each chest day, a set of 3 with good form. Nothing like DMAA + pump up music!
Sadly that all feels like a distant memory
DMAA is great stuff. It's really a shame that it was ripped down so hard because of a few idiots who decided to 5x dose and off themselves. You know, given how often people OD on Tylenol, they should have banned that stuff decades ago.
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Cutting my carbs that low has a definite impact on my strength and endurance. I have learnt over the last few months how critical it is for me to have a higher ratio of carbs in my diet, it's not all about the protein as I had thought. Granted we are not all the same but you may want to try adjusting your macros. On low carb days I can be running 1min/km slower for the same RPE and pushing 2gears lower on a spin bike then failing at far fewer reps for strength work. It really had that big an effect. Since upping my carbs I feel SO much better!0
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briannasnyder12 wrote: »To get to the point, what have you guys found to be the best way to gain strength without putting on mass?1
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I'll jump on the bandwagon. There are certainly plenty of possible reasons but I'm going to agree with the scientific one.
Your body has different energy systems which predominate based upon what type of exercises you are doing. Bench press (and other weight lifting) is anaerobic in nature so will rely upon the ATP-PC and glycolysis systems. The ATP-PC system gets used up pretty quickly. Glycolysis relies upon carbohydrates to work, so it isn't surprising your performance is suffering.
So to answer your question, more carbs means more glycolysis means more energy means more/stronger reps.
Are you going keto? If so you're going to feel lousy for a few weeks before your body adjusts to using a new fuel source. I'm not a fan of this diet (too much stuff to give up) but many swear by it, and science hasn't quite caught up with the anecdotal evidence yet. For now at least, what I said in the last paragraph is the way most studies say things work. Good luck!0 -
singletrackmtbr wrote: »
Are you going keto? If so you're going to feel lousy for a few weeks before your body adjusts to using a new fuel source. I'm not a fan of this diet (too much stuff to give up) but many swear by it, and science hasn't quite caught up with the anecdotal evidence yet. For now at least, what I said in the last paragraph is the way most studies say things work. Good luck!
Ahh, keto. So popular, yet so difficult to maintain and certainly not a long term solution. I'm not too concerned about losing body fat at my size.
I eat a low carb diet as to set an example for my dad and keep him motivated to restricting his carbohydrates to fewer than what a traditional American diet allows, given our family history of DM, CAD, and cancer and the inflammatory/overall detrimental effects of excessive glucose on multiple organ systems over time.
That being said, I do try to get around 25g carbohydrates both before and after my workouts (I take creatine and carnitine prior and find that taking them with carbs really does allow for better absorption of the supplements IMO.)
Perhaps I will increase my pre workout carbohydrates by 50%, make them more complex/eat them slightly earlier, and see if this helps. Thanks for the input!1 -
mgalovic01 wrote: »Sleep. Diet. Daily undulating periodization (after doing all I could on a linear program), schedule deloads, working in mesocycles, not being in too much of a deficit-or any at all.
Bingo.
Keep in mind, carbs are energy, eating less is going to reduce strength, period.
Final note, adding strength without size only works for so long. At some point you can't add strength without adding more muscle, it's just the way it is. If you're a petite woman and you are (were) benching 185 and squatting 225 then you are probably at or near that limit already. It might be time to adjust the goals.
Is that something that people really need to consider? Based on OP's profile pic, assuming that's her, she's not the average MFPer... but I always thought of this type of strength ceiling (for lack of a better phrase) much the same way I thought about overtraining - sure, it's a thing, but it's only an issue in extreme cases, and not really applicable in the MFP world.
I mean, of course. Strength potential is more or less a function of muscle size and leverages (assuming proper technique across the board). Once you've mastered technique and have trained enough to reach that limit you really have no place to go other than to put on muscle. A small female like the OP doesn't have a ton of muscle mass so that limit is going to be fairly low. If she's benching 185 that's is extraordinary for a small woman (any woman really) so that's why I'm guessing she's probably near her limit at her current size and calorie intake.
Someone like a large, young male might be able to go a lot further/a lot longer without gaining any size, just due to larger base muscle mass but we all hit a limit somewhere. Personally, I was stuck at a plateau after about 18 months of lifting and I was only able to get stronger by bulking and cutting from there on. And even then it's just been tiny increments. 18 months of lifting is a drop in the bucket and just about everyone from the casual to the hardcore will hit that limit if they are putting in nearly any effort to their lifting over time.
If muscle size is directly proportional to strength, how do you explain Dennis Rogers and The Mighty Atom?
I'm not really sure what you're getting at, are you trying to debate the basic science at play here by citing some gimmicky showmen? Or were you just making a joke?
If anyone wants to read a lengthy explanation of what affects strength, Mr. Nuckols has a great article here: http://www.strongerbyscience.com/size-vs-strength/
The long and short of it is, the areas you can actually influence are your training/technique and your muscle size. As I already mentioned, if the OP could already bench 185 as a petite female her training and technique are probably very near optimal which means muscle size is pretty much going to be the main determining factor at this point in the quest to get stronger. More calories would be the prescription which conflict with the OP's desire to not put on any size. Hence why I mentioned she's probably going to have to change her goals (either be content with current strength levels or be willing to put on size). I'm trying to keep the explanation and advice simple and on-point for the sake of brevity, but if you want to read dozens of pages then just visit the link above.
Gimmicky showman? What lack of appreciation.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »briannasnyder12 wrote: »
Well unfortunately is has nothing to do with your Somatotype or a simple amino like arginine. It's all due to your hard work and determination. I must ask though, are these from lock out to touching your chest reps? Because if so, bravo!
Mesomorph is a preworkout I really like containing DMAA. Gives me tunnel vision, ahhaha. But thank you! And yes, I can proudly say I could do consistently, each chest day, a set of 3 with good form. Nothing like DMAA + pump up music!
Sadly that all feels like a distant memory
DMAA is great stuff. It's really a shame that it was ripped down so hard because of a few idiots who decided to 5x dose and off themselves. You know, given how often people OD on Tylenol, they should have banned that stuff decades ago.
Not to harp on you, but the negative effects of DMAA are not limited to a few people dying short term of overdoses, but to the many who might develop heart problems years down the line from the tax it puts on your heart.0 -
mgalovic01 wrote: »
Not to harp on you, but the negative effects of DMAA are not limited to a few people dying short term of overdoses, but to the many who might develop heart problems years down the line from the tax it puts on your heart.
I agree wholeheartedly -- which is why I do not take preworkouts with stims anymore and just opt for non-stim pre and 10 minutes of cardio prior to my lifting to get all the right chemicals going though I haven't researched as much as I should on the effects of chronic vasodilator use on the circulatory system, admittedly. Nobody is perfect, right? Haha 0 -
briannasnyder12 wrote: »
I eat a low carb diet as to set an example for my dad and keep him motivated to restricting his carbohydrates to fewer than what a traditional American diet allows, given our family history of DM, CAD, and cancer and the inflammatory/overall detrimental effects of excessive glucose on multiple organ systems over time.
Does your Dad exercise? If not, cutting carbs for him is a great idea as high sugar diets can greatly contribute to metabolic syndrome (an interwoven group of health issues including hyperglycemia, hyperunsulinemia, hypertension and elevated triglycerides).
You on the other hand should be safe from these complications as you seem very active, which is a key component in breaking the cycle of metabolic syndrome. I think you can show your dad a good example by keeping balance and moderation in your diet. He will likely have difficulty maintaining a 20 percent carb diet long term.0 -
Just to piggy back on what I said above, it is generally believed in the scientific community that high fat diets (particularly animal fats) increase the risk of colon cancer. New studies are coming out linking high protein intake (again from animals) to increased cancer and cardiovascular disease risks.
So you can't win. Every food you eat is either protein, carbs, or fats. Since most of us eat animals (maybe you and your Dad don't, I don't know!), my point is your best and safest bet is to not eat too much (or too little) of any particular macronutrient.0 -
nakedraygun wrote: »briannasnyder12 wrote: »To get to the point, what have you guys found to be the best way to gain strength without putting on mass?
Did we just become best friends?2 -
briannasnyder12 wrote: »singletrackmtbr wrote: »
Are you going keto? If so you're going to feel lousy for a few weeks before your body adjusts to using a new fuel source. I'm not a fan of this diet (too much stuff to give up) but many swear by it, and science hasn't quite caught up with the anecdotal evidence yet. For now at least, what I said in the last paragraph is the way most studies say things work. Good luck!
Ahh, keto. So popular, yet so difficult to maintain and certainly not a long term solution. I'm not too concerned about losing body fat at my size.
I eat a low carb diet as to set an example for my dad and keep him motivated to restricting his carbohydrates to fewer than what a traditional American diet allows, given our family history of DM, CAD, and cancer and the inflammatory/overall detrimental effects of excessive glucose on multiple organ systems over time.
That being said, I do try to get around 25g carbohydrates both before and after my workouts (I take creatine and carnitine prior and find that taking them with carbs really does allow for better absorption of the supplements IMO.)
Perhaps I will increase my pre workout carbohydrates by 50%, make them more complex/eat them slightly earlier, and see if this helps. Thanks for the input!
A totally anecdotal note on this, when dieting and cutting carbs (especially very low), I take in more or less all of my carbs pre-workout (and/or intraworkout). I've found it helps a lot. Post-workout carbs never seemed to get me anything. Maybe some/most/all of the post-workout carbs get burnt up before my next workout? It makes sense in a broscience fashion, not sure how true that actually is but I can tell you it makes a big difference for me, performance-wise.0 -
A totally anecdotal note on this, when dieting and cutting carbs (especially very low), I take in more or less all of my carbs pre-workout (and/or intraworkout). I've found it helps a lot. Post-workout carbs never seemed to get me anything. Maybe some/most/all of the post-workout carbs get burnt up before my next workout? It makes sense in a broscience fashion, not sure how true that actually is but I can tell you it makes a big difference for me.
There is no question preworkout carbs will help you in training. That said, carbs are your body's preferred energy source for exercise (unless you do a lot of steady state cardio at a comfortable pace, which burns a higher percentage of fat, but not as many actual calories).
Carbs also provide glucose, which is your brain's strongly preferred fuel source. So you do use a lot of carbs throughout the day. You also burn a high percentage of fat, as when we're not exercising most of us are staying aerobic, meaning Kreb's cycle (which can use either glucose or fat as substrates) and the electron transport system take over (these are your aerobic energy systems).
Carbs that don't get used get stored as muscle glycogen (which is burned off quickly in exercise) and liver glycogen.
The short answer is: if you eat a ton of carbs and don't exercise, you will get fat. If you eat a ton of carbs and train regularly, you won't. Long-winded, but hopefully it helps!
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nakedraygun wrote: »briannasnyder12 wrote: »To get to the point, what have you guys found to be the best way to gain strength without putting on mass?
Did we just become best friends?
1
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