What is your recipe for strength gains?
briannasnyder12
Posts: 14 Member
Over the past few months, I have noticed an approximate 25% decrease in my strength which I assume is secondary A) lack of sleep (thanks, MCAT) and B ) switching my macros to 45% p 20% c 35% f from 45% p 35% c and 20% f. For example, rather than benching 185lbs I can barely get 3x5 at 135, and rather than squatting 225 I struggle with 185 for more than 3 sets.
To get to the point, what have you guys found to be the best way to gain strength without putting on mass?
To get to the point, what have you guys found to be the best way to gain strength without putting on mass?
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Replies
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Sleep will be a big factor... how is your overall intake? Getting sufficient calories? If you're getting enough cals, the shift in macros shouldn't have a big effect. Is your diet even remotely balanced?
Are you on a decent lifting program? Have you deloaded recently?
To your question, sleep and focus have always been my limiting factors. If I'm on a decent program with scheduled progression, I can usually make that progression without any significant problems/delays.
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Sleep. Diet. Daily undulating periodization (after doing all I could on a linear program), schedule deloads, working in mesocycles, not being in too much of a deficit-or any at all.3
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Shoot for 7 hours of sleep atleast, it plays a huge factor. Also you need more carbs. On my heavy bench days doing 5x5 or 3x3 I like to get 500 grams of carbs the day before and the day of. That's just to put it in perspective you obv won't need that many carbs but just adjust it to your weight. Also being in a total calorie surplus helps tremendously, if you're currently dieting then it is only natural to lose strength.
Hope this helps
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Sleep will be a big factor... how is your overall intake? Getting sufficient calories? If you're getting enough cals, the shift in macros shouldn't have a big effect. Is your diet even remotely balanced?
Are you on a decent lifting program? Have you deloaded recently?
To your question, sleep and focus have always been my limiting factors. If I'm on a decent program with scheduled progression, I can usually make that progression without any significant problems/delays.
I almost always get around 1300 calories per day, if not more (I try to get at least 1600 on leg day) as I'm only 128 pounds, ~17% body fat, and have maintained this weight for about 1 year (while dropping ~2% body fat).
I wasn't sure if maybe I wasn't providing enough carbs in my pre/postworkout at ~65 total grams per day, and thought maybe that was causing such a dramatic regression in strength.0 -
Thems cutting carbs. OP, you look nice and lean...ever consider spending a little time in a surplus.
What is your programming like?2 -
I find that I just have off weeks sometimes, especially when I'm doing a pretty intense program. Your body needs to recover. Try a deload week; just come in the gym and focus on some really light weigh stuff and follow up with a bike ride or rowing, something of that nature - Something active but not heavy.
I'd drop your percentages during the workouts to like 65%or70% the following week and progress back up. You'll be shocked how your body responds to it.
Good luck!
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Sleep. Diet. Daily undulating periodization (after doing all I could on a linear program), schedule deloads, working in mesocycles, not being in too much of a deficit-or any at all.
Bingo.
Keep in mind, carbs are energy, eating less is going to reduce strength, period.
Final note, adding strength without size only works for so long. At some point you can't add strength without adding more muscle, it's just the way it is. If you're a petite woman and you are (were) benching 185 and squatting 225 then you are probably at or near that limit already. It might be time to adjust the goals.2 -
could be you're ready to move on from 3x5 and try something cyclical like 5/3/1? those seem like pretty good weights, which is one reason why it occurs to me.
there's also the fact that 1300 calories seems pretty low for an intermediate lifter. i started stronglifts on 1200 and maintained that for a few months but there was a definite wall.0 -
briannasnyder12 wrote: »Sleep will be a big factor... how is your overall intake? Getting sufficient calories? If you're getting enough cals, the shift in macros shouldn't have a big effect. Is your diet even remotely balanced?
Are you on a decent lifting program? Have you deloaded recently?
To your question, sleep and focus have always been my limiting factors. If I'm on a decent program with scheduled progression, I can usually make that progression without any significant problems/delays.
I almost always get around 1300 calories per day, if not more (I try to get at least 1600 on leg day) as I'm only 128 pounds, ~17% body fat, and have maintained this weight for about 1 year (while dropping ~2% body fat).
I wasn't sure if maybe I wasn't providing enough carbs in my pre/postworkout at ~65 total grams per day, and thought maybe that was causing such a dramatic regression in strength.
Well, assuming an average of 1400 cals per day, your percentages put you at
157g protein
70g carbs
54g fat
That is pretty lopsided, IMO. The lack of carbs probably isn't the single determining factor in your struggles, but it certainly isn't helping you. You'd probably be safe cutting back the protein a bit in favor of some more carbs.
That said, I still tend to think what you're describing is more closely tied to sleep and/or training, not diet. Sleep is a *kitten* and impacts pretty much everything - including both training and recovery. What is your training program like? How long have you been on it, and are you taking periodic deloads?2 -
Sleep. Diet. Daily undulating periodization (after doing all I could on a linear program), schedule deloads, working in mesocycles, not being in too much of a deficit-or any at all.
Bingo.
Keep in mind, carbs are energy, eating less is going to reduce strength, period.
Final note, adding strength without size only works for so long. At some point you can't add strength without adding more muscle, it's just the way it is. If you're a petite woman and you are (were) benching 185 and squatting 225 then you are probably at or near that limit already. It might be time to adjust the goals.
Is that something that people really need to consider? Based on OP's profile pic, assuming that's her, she's not the average MFPer... but I always thought of this type of strength ceiling (for lack of a better phrase) much the same way I thought about overtraining - sure, it's a thing, but it's only an issue in extreme cases, and not really applicable in the MFP world.1 -
As others have said, sleep is likely to play a part. But, although I can see that macro ratio will have an impact, I would suggest that total calories in will have a greater impact. Not sure on your stats but 1300 is pretty low for an exerciser/lifter.
I'd double check those numbers and see if you can find a few more cals to play with.0 -
If it could be programming, lack of sleep, too little calories. For myself I switched from PHAT to a wendler template and in less than 2 months I've increased all of my rep PRs.0
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My strength gains hierarchy:
Sleep>food>heavy training>stims
For maintaining strength when cutting, it changes a lot:
Heavy training>sleep>stims>food2 -
Everyone is different of course, but key things that work for everyone is Sleep well, Eat Well, & Train Hard, meaning, being on a program with liner progression (meaning, always adding weight to the bar).
OP-your lifts are strong for the calories and lack of carbs that you intake. I would work on getting better sleep, eating more carbs and upping your calories. I literally eat twice the calories a day you do, consume 300+ grams of Carbs a day, and I hate to admit this but I'm 21 years older than you! If you want to up your strength you need to properly fuel your body for it.2 -
If you are only interested in strength, then focusing on it is important. That means little, to no cardio style workouts. Do both low weight, high rep sets, pushing through the burn, and high weight, low rep sets struggling against your max. Exhaust the body parts you are working on, trying best your previous workout each time, even if only by very little. And, give your body parts plenty of rest between workouts.1
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Sleep. Diet. Daily undulating periodization (after doing all I could on a linear program), schedule deloads, working in mesocycles, not being in too much of a deficit-or any at all.
Bingo.
Keep in mind, carbs are energy, eating less is going to reduce strength, period.
Final note, adding strength without size only works for so long. At some point you can't add strength without adding more muscle, it's just the way it is. If you're a petite woman and you are (were) benching 185 and squatting 225 then you are probably at or near that limit already. It might be time to adjust the goals.
Is that something that people really need to consider? Based on OP's profile pic, assuming that's her, she's not the average MFPer... but I always thought of this type of strength ceiling (for lack of a better phrase) much the same way I thought about overtraining - sure, it's a thing, but it's only an issue in extreme cases, and not really applicable in the MFP world.
I mean, of course. Strength potential is more or less a function of muscle size and leverages (assuming proper technique across the board). Once you've mastered technique and have trained enough to reach that limit you really have no place to go other than to put on muscle. A small female like the OP doesn't have a ton of muscle mass so that limit is going to be fairly low. If she's benching 185 that's is extraordinary for a small woman (any woman really) so that's why I'm guessing she's probably near her limit at her current size and calorie intake.
Someone like a large, young male might be able to go a lot further/a lot longer without gaining any size, just due to larger base muscle mass but we all hit a limit somewhere. Personally, I was stuck at a plateau after about 18 months of lifting and I was only able to get stronger by bulking and cutting from there on. And even then it's just been tiny increments. 18 months of lifting is a drop in the bucket and just about everyone from the casual to the hardcore will hit that limit if they are putting in nearly any effort to their lifting over time.0 -
Sleep. Diet. Daily undulating periodization (after doing all I could on a linear program), schedule deloads, working in mesocycles, not being in too much of a deficit-or any at all.
Bingo.
Keep in mind, carbs are energy, eating less is going to reduce strength, period.
Final note, adding strength without size only works for so long. At some point you can't add strength without adding more muscle, it's just the way it is. If you're a petite woman and you are (were) benching 185 and squatting 225 then you are probably at or near that limit already. It might be time to adjust the goals.
Is that something that people really need to consider? Based on OP's profile pic, assuming that's her, she's not the average MFPer... but I always thought of this type of strength ceiling (for lack of a better phrase) much the same way I thought about overtraining - sure, it's a thing, but it's only an issue in extreme cases, and not really applicable in the MFP world.
I mean, of course. Strength potential is more or less a function of muscle size and leverages (assuming proper technique across the board). Once you've mastered technique and have trained enough to reach that limit you really have no place to go other than to put on muscle. A small female like the OP doesn't have a ton of muscle mass so that limit is going to be fairly low. If she's benching 185 that's is extraordinary for a small woman (any woman really) so that's why I'm guessing she's probably near her limit at her current size and calorie intake.
Someone like a large, young male might be able to go a lot further/a lot longer without gaining any size, just due to larger base muscle mass but we all hit a limit somewhere. Personally, I was stuck at a plateau after about 18 months of lifting and I was only able to get stronger by bulking and cutting from there on. And even then it's just been tiny increments. 18 months of lifting is a drop in the bucket and just about everyone from the casual to the hardcore will hit that limit if they are putting in nearly any effort to their lifting over time.
If muscle size is directly proportional to strength, how do you explain Dennis Rogers and The Mighty Atom?0 -
I have tried a lot of things over the years, but for me I incorporate more rest days which vastly improved my strength and performance. I also finally settled on many smaller meals through a day for my timing.briannasnyder12 wrote: »To get to the point, what have you guys found to be the best way to gain strength without putting on mass?
Lack of sleep can definitely be a factor though.
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mgalovic01 wrote: »Sleep. Diet. Daily undulating periodization (after doing all I could on a linear program), schedule deloads, working in mesocycles, not being in too much of a deficit-or any at all.
Bingo.
Keep in mind, carbs are energy, eating less is going to reduce strength, period.
Final note, adding strength without size only works for so long. At some point you can't add strength without adding more muscle, it's just the way it is. If you're a petite woman and you are (were) benching 185 and squatting 225 then you are probably at or near that limit already. It might be time to adjust the goals.
Is that something that people really need to consider? Based on OP's profile pic, assuming that's her, she's not the average MFPer... but I always thought of this type of strength ceiling (for lack of a better phrase) much the same way I thought about overtraining - sure, it's a thing, but it's only an issue in extreme cases, and not really applicable in the MFP world.
I mean, of course. Strength potential is more or less a function of muscle size and leverages (assuming proper technique across the board). Once you've mastered technique and have trained enough to reach that limit you really have no place to go other than to put on muscle. A small female like the OP doesn't have a ton of muscle mass so that limit is going to be fairly low. If she's benching 185 that's is extraordinary for a small woman (any woman really) so that's why I'm guessing she's probably near her limit at her current size and calorie intake.
Someone like a large, young male might be able to go a lot further/a lot longer without gaining any size, just due to larger base muscle mass but we all hit a limit somewhere. Personally, I was stuck at a plateau after about 18 months of lifting and I was only able to get stronger by bulking and cutting from there on. And even then it's just been tiny increments. 18 months of lifting is a drop in the bucket and just about everyone from the casual to the hardcore will hit that limit if they are putting in nearly any effort to their lifting over time.
If muscle size is directly proportional to strength, how do you explain Dennis Rogers and The Mighty Atom?
I'm not really sure what you're getting at, are you trying to debate the basic science at play here by citing some gimmicky showmen? Or were you just making a joke?
If anyone wants to read a lengthy explanation of what affects strength, Mr. Nuckols has a great article here: http://www.strongerbyscience.com/size-vs-strength/
The long and short of it is, the areas you can actually influence are your training/technique and your muscle size. As I already mentioned, if the OP could already bench 185 as a petite female her training and technique are probably very near optimal which means muscle size is pretty much going to be the main determining factor at this point in the quest to get stronger. More calories would be the prescription which conflict with the OP's desire to not put on any size. Hence why I mentioned she's probably going to have to change her goals (either be content with current strength levels or be willing to put on size). I'm trying to keep the explanation and advice simple and on-point for the sake of brevity, but if you want to read dozens of pages then just visit the link above.1 -
Strength is not always relative to size.1
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The long and short of it is, the areas you can actually influence are your training/technique and your muscle size. As I already mentioned, if the OP could already bench 185 as a petite female her training and technique are probably very near optimal which means muscle size is pretty much going to be the main determining factor at this point in the quest to get stronger. More calories would be the prescription which conflict with the OP's desire to not put on any size. Hence why I mentioned she's probably going to have to change her goals (either be content with current strength levels or be willing to put on size). I'm trying to keep the explanation and advice simple and on-point for the sake of brevity, but if you want to read dozens of pages then just visit the link above.
To ease some confusion, I was NOT benching 3x5 at 185. I would only do one set of 3-5 (depending on the amount of 1,3 in my system, hahahaha.) I would bow down to pretty much any female that could do 3x5 of 185. But I am increasingly more frustrated every chest day that I pretty much can't accomplish a full rep of 185 without a little help from my spot. Maybe it's mental. (Or maybe I'm mental.)
I find it hard to accept that I've reached an impass between losing BF in order to remain relatively the same size and also gain enough muscle to make some strength gains -- below 17% seems somewhat dangerous to maintain for a 22 yo female.
...maybe I'll try upping the carbs to compensate for the fact that 4-6 hours of sleep per night is a luxury until my MCAT.0 -
briannasnyder12 wrote: »
The long and short of it is, the areas you can actually influence are your training/technique and your muscle size. As I already mentioned, if the OP could already bench 185 as a petite female her training and technique are probably very near optimal which means muscle size is pretty much going to be the main determining factor at this point in the quest to get stronger. More calories would be the prescription which conflict with the OP's desire to not put on any size. Hence why I mentioned she's probably going to have to change her goals (either be content with current strength levels or be willing to put on size). I'm trying to keep the explanation and advice simple and on-point for the sake of brevity, but if you want to read dozens of pages then just visit the link above.
To ease some confusion, I was NOT benching 3x5 at 185. I would only do one set of 3-5 (depending on the amount of 1,3 in my system, hahahaha.) I would bow down to pretty much any female that could do 3x5 of 185. But I am increasingly more frustrated every chest day that I pretty much can't accomplish a full rep of 185 without a little help from my spot. Maybe it's mental. (Or maybe I'm mental.)
I find it hard to accept that I've reached an impass between losing BF in order to remain relatively the same size and also gain enough muscle to make some strength gains -- below 17% seems somewhat dangerous to maintain for a 22 yo female.
...maybe I'll try upping the carbs to compensate for the fact that 4-6 hours of sleep per night is a luxury until my MCAT.
I actually thought your 185 was your 1RM. If you were managing 3-5 reps of it that is insane. I only know one or two women that can do that and they are both much larger than you. Impressive!0 -
I actually thought your 185 was your 1RM. If you were managing 3-5 reps of it that is insane. I only know one or two women that can do that and they are both much larger than you. Impressive!
Haha well thank you! I attribute it to easy access to Mesomorph and L-Arginine. Thank you very much for your advice in this thread! I appreciate it.2 -
I'm 37, 5'3, started at 127lbs ended at 137lbs after almost a year of bulking. I started at 1900 calories and ended up at 2600. I'm definitely over 17% bf (I'm estimating 23% from previous measure). Bulking has been extremely beneficial for my strength. My total was 510 in August; 570 in Feb...60lbs added to total and only added 5lbs of bw.0
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briannasnyder12 wrote: »
I actually thought your 185 was your 1RM. If you were managing 3-5 reps of it that is insane. I only know one or two women that can do that and they are both much larger than you. Impressive!
Haha well thank you! I attribute it to easy access to Mesomorph and L-Arginine. Thank you very much for your advice in this thread! I appreciate it.
Well unfortunately is has nothing to do with your Somatotype or a simple amino like arginine. It's all due to your hard work and determination. I must ask though, are these from lock out to touching your chest reps? Because if so, bravo!
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Well unfortunately is has nothing to do with your Somatotype or a simple amino like arginine. It's all due to your hard work and determination. I must ask though, are these from lock out to touching your chest reps? Because if so, bravo!
Mesomorph is a preworkout I really like containing DMAA. Gives me tunnel vision, ahhaha. But thank you! And yes, I can proudly say I could do consistently, each chest day, a set of 3 with good form. Nothing like DMAA + pump up music!
Sadly that all feels like a distant memory0 -
OP you never did say what your programming is like. What have you been up to/what are you doing currently?
You are lean and strong AF. There comes a time when you just gotta put on more muscle. That being said, you are like...my role model right now.0 -
briannasnyder12 wrote: »
Well unfortunately is has nothing to do with your Somatotype or a simple amino like arginine. It's all due to your hard work and determination. I must ask though, are these from lock out to touching your chest reps? Because if so, bravo!
Mesomorph is a preworkout I really like containing DMAA. Gives me tunnel vision, ahhaha. But thank you! And yes, I can proudly say I could do consistently, each chest day, a set of 3 with good form. Nothing like DMAA + pump up music!
Sadly that all feels like a distant memory
DMAA is great stuff. It's really a shame that it was ripped down so hard because of a few idiots who decided to 5x dose and off themselves. You know, given how often people OD on Tylenol, they should have banned that stuff decades ago.
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Cutting my carbs that low has a definite impact on my strength and endurance. I have learnt over the last few months how critical it is for me to have a higher ratio of carbs in my diet, it's not all about the protein as I had thought. Granted we are not all the same but you may want to try adjusting your macros. On low carb days I can be running 1min/km slower for the same RPE and pushing 2gears lower on a spin bike then failing at far fewer reps for strength work. It really had that big an effect. Since upping my carbs I feel SO much better!0
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briannasnyder12 wrote: »To get to the point, what have you guys found to be the best way to gain strength without putting on mass?1
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