It is more than a simple "CICO" - why can't we just admit it?
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OP, I feel ya'. I totally get where you're coming from. But, you just can't post stuff like that here. The diet police WILL call you out on YOUR feelings and YOUR opinions. And then they'll bring all kinds of science into the argument too, sheesh. That being said, I personally try to use my CICO tools as more of a guideline, and recalibrate my limits if it seems like my weight loss is slowing or stopping.
ETA: A good place for "feeling" posts is in your newsfeed with your hopefully more supportive friends. Need more friends? Look through this post and add the people who seem to take your side or at least get you. I could always use another friend . . . .
Wait, science is bad now? Bringing science to a thread is a negative?11 -
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CafeRacer808 wrote: »
Sigh...you still don't get it. "Shut your pie hole" is another way of saying "control your eating". There's really nothing more too weight loss than that...it really is that simple, even if it's "HARD", as you say.
And what does cake have to do with it? I assume you're going to say, "It's hard to turn down a piece of cake." Yeah, that's probably true. But if eating that cake means going over on your calories, the solution is simple: don't eat the cake. Does that make solution easy? Nope.
Sigh. YOU still don't get it. I said NOTHING about anything being easy. It's not hard for ME to turn down a piece of cake, or whatever. I do it all the time. I have to. But I wasn't talking about ME. I was referring to the folks that are overweight and have such a hard time with food...for those people, it IS hard. CLEARLY it is. The OP acted like that was no big deal.
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Look_Its_Kriss wrote: »
I think for the average person though.. that IS all there is too it.. There are a lot of people out there who gained weight simply from being slightly over maintenance.. If the OP's opinion was to include everyone and their idiosyncrasies, eating disorders, medical problems Etc.. the post would be so long, none of us would be finished reading it by next year... HOWEVER.. those people who have these issues, once they work on getting them under control with a doctor are back into the "average" person category, in which case.. yeah.. close your mouth and stop eating so much
I am not referring to the science of "how easy it is". I am referring to WILLPOWER. Overweight/obese people don't have it, and have a very hard time with it. Many of them have enablers all around them. It IS hard for people, to stop the overeating. It's really the biggest hurdle to get over. Once you figure it out, and get control, then you are on your way.1 -
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Look_Its_Kriss wrote: »I thought the OP's thread was saying it wasn't that easy also?
"Why does dieting not work, then, if all we have to do is shut our pie holes every in a while? "
That's not how I read this^^.0 -
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fitmom4lifemfp wrote: »Sigh. YOU still don't get it. I said NOTHING about anything being easy. It's not hard for ME to turn down a piece of cake, or whatever. I do it all the time. I have to. But I wasn't talking about ME. I was referring to the folks that are overweight and have such a hard time with food...for those people, it IS hard. CLEARLY it is. The OP acted like that was no big deal.
LOL.
Of course it's hard for those people. But that doesn't mean it's not simple. That's the point. Have a good day!
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Google results for CICO.bcalvanese wrote: »WOW!!!
5 pages for an acronym that does not even exist. It's a made up word only found in these forums.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=cico&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=75yrWL-xFOHEjAOhloUo
Don't even see a link to MFP.
What work are you referring to?
And the funny thing is, even if it was a real thing, the people who are too lazy to exercise only use the CI part, and the people think they can control their weight just by exercising only use the CO part. Then it turns into a battle between CI & CO.
There are many funny sayings on these forums.
"weight loss starts in the kitchen" ~so does getting fat~
"you can't out exercise a bad diet" ~starving yourself is worse~
I know most people don't want to hear this, but if you want to be healthy, you MUST put the work in.There are no shortcut diets because every one of them are BS.
There are no shortcut workout plan because every one of them are BS.
You MUST get the recommended exercise, which means you MUST huff and puff and sweat for a certain number of minutes per session and a certain number of sessions per week.
No you don't. Many here who have lost weight without exercising. It is not a MUST. It is helpful, and healthy, but not a MUST.
THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS!!!
You MUST eat a nutritious well balanced diet and keep junk food to a minimum.
Again, no you don't. It is helpful and healthy, but is not a requirement for weight loss.THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS!!!
You SHOULD NOT have to weigh every gram of food you put in your mouth for the rest of your life.
You SHOULD be able to eat a cheese steak or a couple slices of pizza here and there without blowing up like a freaking balloon.
You may not have to weigh and log everything for the rest of your life, but you need to learn portion size and weighing and logging is part of that education. And I don't see where someone is saying you can't have cheese steak (not my favorite) or pizza (near the top of my favorites).
THERE IS NO CICO!!!
Only people who are too lazy to put the work in.
For the record, I mean this in a nice way.
The whole thing comes down to CICO, whether you are counting calories or doing another diet. CICO still is and is important.
And you think calling people lazy is the nice way?
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bcalvanese wrote: »WOW!!!
5 pages for an acronym that does not even exist. It's a made up word only found in these forums.
And the funny thing is, even if it was a real thing, the people who are too lazy to exercise only use the CI part, and the people think they can control their weight just by exercising only use the CO part. Then it turns into a battle between CI & CO.
There are many funny sayings on these forums.
"weight loss starts in the kitchen" ~so does getting fat~
"you can't out exercise a bad diet" ~starving yourself is worse~
I know most people don't want to hear this, but if you want to be healthy, you MUST put the work in.
There are no shortcut diets because every one of them are BS.
There are no shortcut workout plan because every one of them are BS.
You MUST get the recommended exercise, which means you MUST huff and puff and sweat for a certain number of minutes per session and a certain number of sessions per week.
THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS!!!
You MUST eat a nutritious well balanced diet and keep junk food to a minimum.
THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS!!!
You SHOULD NOT have to weigh every gram of food you put in your mouth for the rest of your life.
You SHOULD be able to eat a cheese steak or a couple slices of pizza here and there without blowing up like a freaking balloon.
THERE IS NO CICO!!!
Only people who are too lazy to put the work in.
For the record, I mean this in a nice way.
The concept of CICO has been around a lot longer than MFP. And to say "there is no CICO" is flat out wrong. CICO, as stated several times upthread, is simply an equation that describes the energy balance required to gain, lose or maintain weight. It's in effect right now, in all of our bodies, 24/7, whether you want to believe the formula exists or not.
Also, we "MUST eat a nutritious well balanced diet and keep junk food to a minimum"? Are you referring specifically to weight loss, or eating in general? I think everyone here can agree that having a nutritious, well balanced diet is very important for overall health. But to say one "MUST" do so in order to lose weight is simply not true. It was true, then I wouldn't have gained weight (fat, not muscle mass) whilst working out regularly and eating a mostly whole foods diet in which I kept junk food to a minimum. The only reason why I gained weight during that time is because my CI was greater than my CO. And if it was true, then the friends on my FL who are happily eating junk food as part of their diet and with a minimal amount of time spent in the gym wouldn't be successfully losing weight (which they are).5 -
CafeRacer808 wrote: »bcalvanese wrote: »WOW!!!
5 pages for an acronym that does not even exist. It's a made up word only found in these forums.
And the funny thing is, even if it was a real thing, the people who are too lazy to exercise only use the CI part, and the people think they can control their weight just by exercising only use the CO part. Then it turns into a battle between CI & CO.
There are many funny sayings on these forums.
"weight loss starts in the kitchen" ~so does getting fat~
"you can't out exercise a bad diet" ~starving yourself is worse~
I know most people don't want to hear this, but if you want to be healthy, you MUST put the work in.
There are no shortcut diets because every one of them are BS.
There are no shortcut workout plan because every one of them are BS.
You MUST get the recommended exercise, which means you MUST huff and puff and sweat for a certain number of minutes per session and a certain number of sessions per week.
THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS!!!
You MUST eat a nutritious well balanced diet and keep junk food to a minimum.
THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS!!!
You SHOULD NOT have to weigh every gram of food you put in your mouth for the rest of your life.
You SHOULD be able to eat a cheese steak or a couple slices of pizza here and there without blowing up like a freaking balloon.
THERE IS NO CICO!!!
Only people who are too lazy to put the work in.
For the record, I mean this in a nice way.
The concept of CICO has been around a lot longer than MFP.
I've been following CICO since I was 17 ... and that was a long, long time ago. It's the only thing that makes sense and works.
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Tom and Hank do require the same energy to digest their food, they have the same chemical process underway.
The girl who didn't lose the same weight might have cheated at work, or maybe runs a degree cooler in her body temp. Each can find their own CICO and work from there.
Totally funny you should mention the body temp--I actually do run cool and my medical file has a GIANT notation in it so people don't freak out and think something's wrong. Likewise, when I am running a slight fever by normal standards, it's actually more serious for me.0 -
Rebecca0224 wrote: »fitmom4lifemfp wrote: »3rdof7sisters wrote: »I know for a fact people were counting calories 50 years ago. I did it. I had a little book with calories of common foods. Weight watchers has been around a long time. What has skyrocketed in the past 50 years is, the availability of food. Fast food stores, convenience stores with quick & fast foods, grocery stores etc, all open 24 hours per day. Our lives are more sedentary compared to what they were, and we have more demanding schedules on the whole. There are a multitude of reasons that may or may not contribute. But, no one can argue that for many overweight people, we are eating more calories, than we are burning, or at least we were until we found MFP
Thank you. Of COURSE they were.
Why would someone think that no one knew what a calorie was, or bothered with it, 40 years ago??? Do they think that there were dinosaurs back then, too?
Sure there were, but do you have any idea how many calories are in a T-rex drumstick? Just stay away from that stuff!
If they clone dinosaurs I will try it lol
I have a piece of amber with several bugs in it. We can get started on that project.2 -
It is more than a simple "CICO, maybe when your first starting out its all about cico, but after that there is a lot more to factor in than just cico, what ever your goal is you have to start making adjustments, sleep plays a big role, rest between sets makes a big difference, how many sets and reps your doing, how much time you spend in the gym, are you doing cardio after workouts or are you doing cardio on your non workout days, all this stuff comes into play if you want keep moving forward, lets say you get hurt and you cant do any upper body work outs, do you stop working out or do you keep on moving forward by doing lower body until your upper body heals, all this stuff makes a difference when you want to keep moving forward, in the end you need cico but whether your gaining or loosing you still have to make adjustments to move forward, and last but not least you have to know what your doing1
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Rebecca0224 wrote: »fitmom4lifemfp wrote: »3rdof7sisters wrote: »I know for a fact people were counting calories 50 years ago. I did it. I had a little book with calories of common foods. Weight watchers has been around a long time. What has skyrocketed in the past 50 years is, the availability of food. Fast food stores, convenience stores with quick & fast foods, grocery stores etc, all open 24 hours per day. Our lives are more sedentary compared to what they were, and we have more demanding schedules on the whole. There are a multitude of reasons that may or may not contribute. But, no one can argue that for many overweight people, we are eating more calories, than we are burning, or at least we were until we found MFP
Thank you. Of COURSE they were.
Why would someone think that no one knew what a calorie was, or bothered with it, 40 years ago??? Do they think that there were dinosaurs back then, too?
Sure there were, but do you have any idea how many calories are in a T-rex drumstick? Just stay away from that stuff!
If they clone dinosaurs I will try it lol
I have a piece of amber with several bugs in it. We can get started on that project.
In for dino-snacks.2 -
It is more than a simple "CICO, maybe when your first starting out its all about cico, but after that there is a lot more to factor in than just cico, what ever your goal is you have to start making adjustments, sleep plays a big role, rest between sets makes a big difference, how many sets and reps your doing, how much time you spend in the gym, are you doing cardio after workouts or are you doing cardio on your non workout days, all this stuff comes into play if you want keep moving forward, lets say you get hurt and you cant do any upper body work outs, do you stop working out or do you keep on moving forward by doing lower body until your upper body heals, all this stuff makes a difference when you want to keep moving forward, in the end you need cico but whether your gaining or loosing you still have to make adjustments to move forward, and last but not least you have to know what your doing
What if I told you that CICO still works even if a person never sets foot in a gym...6 -
@Look_Its_Kriss you're AMAZING!!!!! Half your body weight????!! And u had huge hurdles! full props to u. Seeing things like this is inspiring! Makes me realise I CAN do it and it's only me in my way (and beer on Saturdays)3
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WinoGelato wrote: »It is more than a simple "CICO, maybe when your first starting out its all about cico, but after that there is a lot more to factor in than just cico, what ever your goal is you have to start making adjustments, sleep plays a big role, rest between sets makes a big difference, how many sets and reps your doing, how much time you spend in the gym, are you doing cardio after workouts or are you doing cardio on your non workout days, all this stuff comes into play if you want keep moving forward, lets say you get hurt and you cant do any upper body work outs, do you stop working out or do you keep on moving forward by doing lower body until your upper body heals, all this stuff makes a difference when you want to keep moving forward, in the end you need cico but whether your gaining or loosing you still have to make adjustments to move forward, and last but not least you have to know what your doing
What if I told you that CICO still works even if a person never sets foot in a gym...
Oh god no.... don't say it..... lol0 -
OP, I feel ya'. I totally get where you're coming from. But, you just can't post stuff like that here. The diet police WILL call you out on YOUR feelings and YOUR opinions. And then they'll bring all kinds of science into the argument too, sheesh. That being said, I personally try to use my CICO tools as more of a guideline, and recalibrate my limits if it seems like my weight loss is slowing or stopping.
ETA: A good place for "feeling" posts is in your newsfeed with your hopefully more supportive friends. Need more friends? Look through this post and add the people who seem to take your side or at least get you. I could always use another friend . . . .
Oh please. Pull the other one.
The"diet police" you're referring to are professionals in the science, medical, diet and fitness fields.... as well as those who have been successful at weight loss and maintaining.
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Holy geez. I never said I was the ONLY person who was sympathetic, or that there weren't enough sympathizers. Is there an "only one sympathetic person per thread" rule, or what? And, actually I said something along those same lines, is there a rule against that too? Anyway, "We are not meant to compare our losses to the rate of someone else", and yet the CICO formula is exactly that. It says, if you are X, Y, and Z, you should weigh this. And, if you eat A calories and expend B calories, you will lose C amount of weight. All of that is based on someone else with the same stats. And, you're right about the sugar coating thing. But, in my personal opinion, the OP was looking for a sympathetic ear, hence the reason I gave the advice for her to not post stuff like that here. Dang, your horse looks tired, you wanna' borrow my mule?
No, that is not what the "CICO formula" is. The "CICO formula" is that if one individual person's CI < that same individual's CO, s/he will lose weight (or CI > CO to gain, CI = CO to maintain).
In actual real life, my CO is apparently mysteriously several hundred calories per day higher than most people my size, age, etc. Yay, I get to eat more and still lose the same amount of weight they do. None of that invalidates CICO.
I'm hypothyroid. I'm post-menopausal. None of that invalidates CICO either.
If I lowball my CI (to lose weight unhealthily fast, or because I believe the $#)*& calculators that estimate I'd maintain on 1600 calories/day), I will want to lay around all day under a blankie; and if I do that, my NEAT CO will drop, and I'll lose weight more slowly (adaptive thermogenesis, not "starvation mode" - LOL!). That doesn't invalidate CICO either.
If I drink too much alcohol, even within my calorie goal, odds are good that I'll decide it's a Fine Idea to eat All The Foodz. That doesn't invalidate CICO (though it may stop me losing weight). If get bored and eat more, or get stressed and eat more, or build up so much freakin' cortisol that my weight loss slows, or feel guilty if I don't eat Granny's famous red velvet cake (so I eat it), none of those things invalidate CICO. They may make it harder for me to lose weight in a practical sense, but they don't make CICO false, or even incomplete.
CICO doesn't pretend to be every single thing about how humans lose weight. It's not about psychology. It's not about medical conditions. It's not about people being statistically unusual in their personal calorie requirements compared to the statistical mean for their demographics that's spit out by some calorie requirements calculator.
It's just an energy balance equation.
(edited to fix quote tag error)8 -
I'm always curious why these discussions get started when this is a CICO website. OP mactaffy428
has never once commented after he started the thread. What's up with that?1 -
I see the frustration of OP. CICO is as much a "principle" as , say, "buy low sell high". Like.. duh. Thanks for the insight. That doesn't help. Otherwise we'll all be skinny and rich.
The key is obviously in the nuances. And I'm glad this community provides that kind of support. Some of the responses - particularly that damn flow chart thing - are just not helpful in helping people figure out what's wrong. If I went to my financial planner and say, hey guy, why am I losing money and not earning? And he goes "well, you need to buy low sell high". Well, no thanks for not helping . Lol.3 -
It doesn't help only if the person wants to hear reasons to give up or quit. "it can't be that simple because that means I'll have to change and be uncomfortable and I don't want to do that." A child's mentality. Adults get it. There's a lot of mental children walking around in large fat adult bodies who simply want to continue doing what's easy and what's comfortable1
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